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On May 12 2011 17:56 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
What does it say about the scene then, when a bottom-tier burnout from Brood War on a relaxed practice regimen still wins the GSL? It says that SC2 requires a different skill set. Is it really a good thing that you need to practice mechanics 10 hours a day for 6 days per week for a strategy game? Or is it just an abuse to overcome strategical deficits with slightly higher army efficiency?
Holy god so much truth packed into such a short post, it's almost unfathomable!
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On May 12 2011 17:56 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 13:32 intrigue wrote:
What does it say about the scene then, when a bottom-tier burnout from Brood War on a relaxed practice regimen still wins the GSL? It says that SC2 requires a different skill set. Is it really a good thing that you need to practice mechanics 10 hours a day for 6 days per week for a strategy game? Or is it just an abuse to overcome strategical deficits with slightly higher army efficiency?
In a pure strategy game where you are unable to see exactly what you opponent is doing less mechanical difficulty = lower skill celling.
When I watch flash play I think in a million years I could never do what he does. When I watch MC play I go on the ladder right after and try his build.
This is not a pure strategy game in the way newer players think it is. You can be dominate doing the same build over and over again. IMO this is what makes sc so great. You can win through strategy, macro, micro, or multitasking.
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On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 17:59 tdt wrote:
This thread is growing faster than a SC2 LR thread...hmmm. Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get. 
It's a front page post that attacks the entire SC2 community, what do you expect the response to be?
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Please keep in mind that SC2 is only one year old and the metagame is still shifting day by day. Better players will latch on eventually and we will see less 1a2a3a and more skill as the game evolves.
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Canada5155 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:01 valaki wrote:
Lol at the haters. The article only said that:
1.) Current SC2 scene are dominated by ex BW players
2.) These players were average at bw at most EDIT: And awful horrible Zergbongs at worst.
3.) IF some of the current bw pros who are average would transfer, they MIGHT dominate
4.) Flash and JD WOULD dominate no question
5.) The current pros need to practice in a more organised fashion
Fixed!
But yes, I agree.
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On May 12 2011 17:59 Deadeight wrote:
Wait, so if we're lucky and Flash switches to SC2 we will get to watch some terran turtle their way through 50-60 minute games all the way to to the finals and win, never dropping a game.
That sounds shit.
TVTs are 50-60 minutes because of Terran's low mobility. I hate TVT with passion.
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Zurich15366 Posts
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1333 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 17:59 tdt wrote:
This thread is growing faster than a SC2 LR thread...hmmm. Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get.
I dunno, says alot to me that sc2 fans would rather come tell intrigue that HIS OPINION IS WRONG than, you know be excited about the game 'intrigue is wrong about'...
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Netherlands45349 Posts
What makes you think that you practice 10 hours a day purely on mechanics?Contrary to popular belief(appearently) Only Jaedong is known for his insane mechanics, Flash has good mechanics but he is not known for that. You practice 10 hours a day for something other then mechanics.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2011 17:27 gk_ender wrote:
it does translate but you misinterpret
the wc3 competition was never as big as brood, and thus produced less players, which is why moon, wc3's boxer, went on to leave the sport as a top if not the best player in wc3, where as boxer became a shut out. Its that it may be possible that as a result of this amount of competition that bw b teamers are comparable in skill to wc3.
And i know the argument will be made, well then they should have switched to wc3. But there was not nearly as much money in that game as sc2, and they simply by being b teamers got a house and food and better wages than the wc3 players (which is why the competition wasnt as big) and so they didnt
..which is why moon, wc3's boxer...
I've seen SO many TL contributors been slapped on the wrist by the BW aficionado that I would like to object to this comparison.
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Your article is full of assumptions and obvious facts. BW pros are good at SC2? Incredible! They played a lot of RTS games, didn't they? Warcraft 3 pros are rocking the foreign scene. Very few people started their pro careers with SC2, I just don't see how this proves a single point.
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On May 12 2011 17:50 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 17:46 Reaper9 wrote:On May 12 2011 17:43 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 12 2011 17:38 Creep wrote:On May 12 2011 17:31 darkscream wrote:
More of the usual TL drivel, O HARKEN THE DAYS OF BROOD WAR, WHERE PLAYERS WERE BETTER AND PEOPLE WHO READ ABOUT THE PLAYERS WERE ALSO BETTER
give me a break, if these guys had any SC2 skill they'd be playing SC2 since that's where the money is, obviously they are super powerful at broodwar and I hope they stay there, as the game is ancient and without major following outside of korea and teamliquid.net
also, how come you can write what is essentially a troll article? If I wrote a troll post on the forums I'd get banned. Yet this article does nothing but
a) make the BW nostalgia crew fap with anticipation
b) anger/confuse newer fans of SC2 who don't give a rat's ass about BW
c) bait trolling This post sums up how I feel about this entire thing, and is written in a much cleverer way than I ever could have. The money isnt in sc2... Not in Korea. Its still in BW. And for those so offended by this being on the front page of TL, ever think that the point of this article was to create all this discussion, you know create traffic and dialog? Kinda what TL is meant for. Just because its on the front page doesn't mean you have to agree with it. I find it quite hilarious that people take such offense to this. How about you guys go write an article saying why you disagree? Fine, I'll bite. I'll come back for one more jab. Yea, people are taking this so heated. Because in the back of their minds, they are afraid that it is true, that all of this would invalidate their love of SC2. Because it won't. They will still love SC2, and I will still love SC2. (along with Bw). But again, I'll just snort slightly when Jaedong does switch. I think they will rue the day when it happens. Because he is a monster who does not stop for anything. Exactly. I started following the scene with sc2, but I also took time to educate myself on BW before hand. I think a lot of the people having problems with this article aren't very familiar with BW and the Korean scene in it. I hardly am. Just because a BW pro could come and dominate sc2 doesn't make sc2 a terrible game.
So people like travis or Artosis didn't know anything about BW? That's getting thrown around a lot: "oh you disagree? I'll just assume you didn't follow BW." well some of us did, and it's not the idea that Flash or Jaedong could be the best that we're having a problem with it's the assumption that without them playing the game, Sc2 is a game for crappy players who only win because everyone else sucks.
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On May 12 2011 17:59 Deadeight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 17:42 NicksonReyes wrote:On May 12 2011 17:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 12 2011 17:28 Nolot wrote:On May 12 2011 17:27 setzer wrote:On May 12 2011 17:25 Nolot wrote:On May 12 2011 17:20 travis wrote:On May 12 2011 17:07 H wrote:On May 12 2011 17:02 travis wrote:
It is absolutely ridiculous to compare the competition in a game that is less than 1 year old to a game that people have been playing professionally for over 10 years. To call the competition in sc2 a "farce" is to call the competition in most every game other than sc:bw a farce, and that's sc:bw elitism at it's finest(and not in a good way). Except the top competition in SC2, as written in the article, played SC1 professionally for years.. and sucked at it. And maybe they played chess and sucked at that too? Who cares? A bunch of B teamer and some A- teamer bw players switched and some B teamers rose to the top, with amazing play. So what exactly is the point? That competition can become more fierce? Well duh, the game is less than a year old. Or is the point that sc:bw has better gamers and that if the pros from it switch to sc2 they will immediately own everyone? Because that's just conjecture and I expect it's not exactly true, and it certainly won't happen instantly anyways. It's also rude. In 5 years it won't be a sc1 player sitting on the GSL(or whatever tournament) throne. It'll be a sc2 player. Actually you know what, it already is. Nestea is clearly a sc2 player. I have to agree here, and didn't MVP beat Flash once in a scbw game? He beat him once in a 50 minute TvT that honestly could have gone either way in the last second. Flash won the other games in total dominating fashion. So you are telling me that someone who can last 50mins in a TvT vs Flash, and win it in the end sucked? That doesn't make any sense to me Think about it this way. MVP was good enough to beat Flash in a 50 min game and has probably been the best SCBW player to switch to sc2. He also happens to be one of, if not the best sc2 player. Coincidence? I can't believe this thread lead to people thinking MVP was good. Flash is turtle terran. Even canata can last an hour against him. Beating flash after 50 mins isn't far from beating him during midgame 'cause its TvT. He just won the final engagement, so lasting 50 mins isn't actually that impressive. Wait, so if we're lucky and Flash switches to SC2 we will get to watch some terran turtle their way through 50-60 minute games all the way to to the finals and win, never dropping a game. That sounds shit.
You would see the player that has the best understanding of timing attacks, strategic play, body and mind conditioning, switch over to starcraft 2.
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On May 12 2011 15:21 mitthrawn wrote:
The writer of this article must be a huge bitter SC:BW vet. :D
This game isn't some kind of mmo with vet and all. He's not bitter at some change or whatever. He just says SC2 competition is very dull. There's no shrine, no goal, things seem to happen randomly, and what's most terrible, there is no true feeling of courage / pain.
Problem is SC2 gets us to watch and look and praise old BW skills in it, nothing new is there to replace that sharpness and precision that was taken out.
I'm yet to find where the challenge is that can separate distinctly two players.
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On May 12 2011 17:59 Deadeight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 17:42 NicksonReyes wrote:On May 12 2011 17:36 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 12 2011 17:28 Nolot wrote:On May 12 2011 17:27 setzer wrote:On May 12 2011 17:25 Nolot wrote:On May 12 2011 17:20 travis wrote:On May 12 2011 17:07 H wrote:On May 12 2011 17:02 travis wrote:
It is absolutely ridiculous to compare the competition in a game that is less than 1 year old to a game that people have been playing professionally for over 10 years. To call the competition in sc2 a "farce" is to call the competition in most every game other than sc:bw a farce, and that's sc:bw elitism at it's finest(and not in a good way). Except the top competition in SC2, as written in the article, played SC1 professionally for years.. and sucked at it. And maybe they played chess and sucked at that too? Who cares? A bunch of B teamer and some A- teamer bw players switched and some B teamers rose to the top, with amazing play. So what exactly is the point? That competition can become more fierce? Well duh, the game is less than a year old. Or is the point that sc:bw has better gamers and that if the pros from it switch to sc2 they will immediately own everyone? Because that's just conjecture and I expect it's not exactly true, and it certainly won't happen instantly anyways. It's also rude. In 5 years it won't be a sc1 player sitting on the GSL(or whatever tournament) throne. It'll be a sc2 player. Actually you know what, it already is. Nestea is clearly a sc2 player. I have to agree here, and didn't MVP beat Flash once in a scbw game? He beat him once in a 50 minute TvT that honestly could have gone either way in the last second. Flash won the other games in total dominating fashion. So you are telling me that someone who can last 50mins in a TvT vs Flash, and win it in the end sucked? That doesn't make any sense to me Think about it this way. MVP was good enough to beat Flash in a 50 min game and has probably been the best SCBW player to switch to sc2. He also happens to be one of, if not the best sc2 player. Coincidence? I can't believe this thread lead to people thinking MVP was good. Flash is turtle terran. Even canata can last an hour against him. Beating flash after 50 mins isn't far from beating him during midgame 'cause its TvT. He just won the final engagement, so lasting 50 mins isn't actually that impressive. Wait, so if we're lucky and Flash switches to SC2 we will get to watch some terran turtle their way through 50-60 minute games all the way to to the finals and win, never dropping a game. That sounds shit.
That's a shallow way to view things. Something happening doesn't mean that it'll happen for eternity(just like MVP winning). It's not like he's going to have TvTs all the time too.
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Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:03 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 12 2011 17:59 tdt wrote:
This thread is growing faster than a SC2 LR thread...hmmm. Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get. It's a front page post that attacks the entire SC2 community, what do you expect the response to be?
Given the maturity of the SC2 community, I expect about the reaction it got.
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On May 12 2011 18:03 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 18:01 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 12 2011 17:59 tdt wrote:
This thread is growing faster than a SC2 LR thread...hmmm. Yeah, noticed that too. Amazed how riled up everyone seems to get. It's a front page post that attacks the entire SC2 community, what do you expect the response to be?
How does it attack the entire SC2 community?
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On May 12 2011 18:04 Kipsate wrote:
What makes you think that you practice 10 hours a day purely on mechanics?Contrary to popular belief(appearently) Only Jaedong is known for his insane mechanics, Flash has good mechanics but he is not known for that. You practice 10 hours a day for something other then mechanics.
wait what ? :D
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On May 12 2011 18:05 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 15:21 mitthrawn wrote:
The writer of this article must be a huge bitter SC:BW vet. :D This game isn't some kind of mmo with vet and all. He's not bitter at some change or whatever. He just says SC2 competition is very dull. There's no shrine, no goal, things seem to happen randomly, and what's most terrible, there is no true feeling of courage / pain.
Well considering SC2 is pulling more new viewers to E-Sports then BW ever did I'm going to have to go out on a limb and say he's completely and utterly wrong.
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EPT
