EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 39
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Trolle
Sweden227 Posts
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skullhoof
Korea (North)835 Posts
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Aurdon
United States2007 Posts
The OP is trying to come off like he's bringing up some kind of discsussion that no one wants to talk about. That it is the 'Elephant in the Room.' That it is there, but no one wants to bring it up. That's just not true. I've seen dozens of these types of posts sent down to the Closed Thread section. So why does this warrant a discussion now? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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TheRhox
Canada868 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:47 DetrA wrote: Please just watch bw. Than watch sc2. Than it's kind of obvious. The better players play bw. Give the SC2 players 10 years, and we'll see who produces the more entertaining games. | ||
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Cevari
Finland74 Posts
But why does this make the competition a farce? RTS games have transferrable skillsets. How is this news? And why would competition in a game be completely void of meaning if there are a few people in the world who probably could dominate the scene? I get the feeling you yourself feel that there have been good, tense moments of high level competition in SC2 but you felt that you'd get more views by sensationalising the blurb and beginning of the article so all the SC2 fans get angry and start arguing. I just don't understand how the very existence of Flash and Jaedong and Bisu now somehow makes playing any other RTS competetively a waste of time because "they could destroy you anyway". There's viewers, sponsors and players in SC2. That is all you need for a successful competetive scene. And I'm sorry to break your bubble but most of the SC2 fans I know couldn't care less about BW or what their favourite players accomplished (or as it may be, didn't) in that game. They care about SC2. And that's what matters for this scene. | ||
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exalted
United States3612 Posts
People who are "mediocre" don't always stay that way. Just because they had poor results in SC1 doesn't mean that they are doomed to mediocrity in SC2. They could have realized "shit, I'm going to really step up my game", changed their mindset, and struck gold. The two games ARE different, and comparing outdated records simply is not convincing enough to prove the point. I think what you're seeing in SC2 is not necessarily a lack of skill, but simply the game being too young for people to play at a refined level. Players can be separated into "innovators" and "executors". In the early stages of SC2, innovators have a large edge as they can put their opponents into unfamiliar situations and exploit. As the game becomes more and more defined, "executors" (Idra) start to shine as all of their responses are reflexes and their game-management / multitask becomes their game-winning advantage. If SC1 pros continue to make the transition (which I see inevitable), the OP will likely be proven true. However, I will also bet that it is equally likely that some new star (with no BW background) will come and smash the current scene. Never underestimate the talent of young kids with both an ego and plenty of spare time. Especially if they come from a background that demands mental/physical dexterity (i.e. piano, other games, etc.) | ||
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PreliatorMax
Philippines37 Posts
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
You don't have to agree with intrigue, but the amount of one-liner butthurt nerdrage is just depressing. On May 12 2011 17:42 lexiphanic wrote: Well, considering the tone, I think it is indeed 'trolling' for responses. Thus, making the author a troll. Starting out by calling GSL champions "Bad" is definitely trolling. It's also inflamatory. That makes it flamebait as well. stop posting. forever | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:46 Reaper9 wrote: Fine, I'll bite. I'll come back for one more jab. Yea, people are taking this so heated. Because in the back of their minds, they are afraid that it is true, that all of this would invalidate their love of SC2. Because it won't. They will still love SC2, and I will still love SC2. (along with Bw). But again, I'll just snort slightly when Jaedong does switch. I think they will rue the day when it happens. Because he is a monster who does not stop for anything. Exactly. I started following the scene with sc2, but I also took time to educate myself on BW before hand. I think a lot of the people having problems with this article aren't very familiar with BW and the Korean scene in it. I hardly am. Just because a BW pro could come and dominate sc2 doesn't make sc2 a terrible game. | ||
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
I feel what's more important, however, is the new crop of youngsters for whom the expected value (in terms of money) of playing SC2 far, far outweighs that of playing BW where there is just so much competition. I think there's currently a "market imbalance" which is going to be filled oh-so-soon with insanely talented 15 year olds winning GSLs left, right and centre. EDIT: One mistake in the article: MVP is a GSL champion (Code S January) | ||
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gk_ender
United States717 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:44 Kreb wrote: Good. Then we agree. I can live with my numbers being wrong, they were abviously made on the fly. And we'd never be able to agree in perfect numbers anyway. But we agree on the main point. And obviously the OP stated it was a farce, not you (sorry if that was unclear), so we're on the same level there too. I think you miss the point It it a troll, maybe but if you read what hes saying hes just saying that he cant wait till the big boys come over to play. Why, because mc with his awful skill is a champion, so itll be crazy to see what flash will do. Mc who is better than non korean bw players is doing exactly what he could in bw, kill non koreans. Which means that that skill must translate, which means that on sc2 must intrinsically must share traits with bw, and thus because bw is such a beautiful game to watch with such a high large skill gap, maybe sc2 has it to, and so you just wait and see. This game is about to get good | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
hot_bid you're a cretin, Sea[Shield] would dominate SC2 | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
it was trying to inform people of the possibility of what SC2 will become. Imagine 100 people with skills that are above/equal to MVP's current form, that is what SC2 can become in the future. I see some people saying this game sucks because its dominated by B-teamers. If that is the case, look at the quality of the games and imagine what the game will look like when A-teamers decide to switch over. Nada doesn't play as much as he used to in BW and still is the most consistent SC2 player. Does that mean SC2 is a joke? No. It means when the A-teamers switch over, this will motivate Nada to play ever more so he doesnt fall behind. | ||
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DetrA
United States148 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:43 itiswhatitis wrote: So, MC wasn't successful in BW.... that means he's bad now? Because nobody ever learns anything or improves, ever... amirite?! Sucking in the past means you forever suck, it's not possible that he could have worked hard and become a really strong player, it must just mean competition in sc2 isn't real, right guys?! FFS. Your right it would have been a bad argument if he picked out a single player however, how good people were before they switched to sc2 equals how good they are at bw relative to the other bw pros. Is there anyone who was around for bw that disagrees with this post. The people who never watched bw can't understand becuase they have never seen the amount of skill shown by top bw pros. | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:49 TheRhox wrote: Give the SC2 players 10 years, and we'll see who produces the more entertaining games. hopefully we'll be watching SC2 in 10 years. but in 10 minutes i'll be watching Jaedong and Flash play BW: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/05/#event_4723 | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:47 DetrA wrote: Please just watch bw. Than watch sc2. Than it's kind of obvious. The better players play bw. We know this. We knew it when BW fans spammed it last year. Whats your point? I just don't understand what this original post was supposed to accomplish other than to tell SC2 fans that our favorite players suck and that SC2 is nowhere near as good as BW. The entire "whats your point" section HAS NO POINT. It's just a summary of again, saying that SC2 players suck compared to the A/S class BW players. His final lines were "Brood War's drawing power for live audiences has waned since the golden days, and I do not believe that the entire top tier of Brood War players will stay in that strange parallel world. They'll be here, a few at a time. Oh man, they’re coming." Did he REALLY need to shit on every SC2 player to tell us something as obvious as this? That BW is an aging game and may very well die within the 2010-2020 decade, and we might see an influx of amazing BW players? No, he did not. People already knew this. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:48 Sabu113 wrote: I'm surprised there was little talk about Idra's favorite complaint; that there is limited room for mechanics to allow "superior" players to win. SC2 seems to be much more "strategy focused" (bear with me) with the harder counters and lower mechanical ceiling. There are fewer mechanical tricks that players can use to finesse major strategic decisions. As such, the marginal advantage of a higher apm (and thus more games) may not be greater than the marginal gain of additional hours strategizing. Because it would derail this editorial into a BW vs SC2 mechanics fest discussion in less then a second. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
1) SCII has a less evolved metagame then BW. 2) Top-earning pros haven't switched over from BW to SC II because salary and price money is just not high enough at the moment in SCII. Both these points are obvious and it has been covered by many people in this thread of why that is. I also think that nobody who is interested in a serious discussion will contest either of them. BW was unfortuantely not as successful in the west as it was in Korea. This is a sad fact. So if one really loves this franchise maybe it would be better to try to promote SCII instead of belittle the current SCII pro scene. The same points could have been made in a very different way. For example one could have said, look at all these amazing BW players and just imagine how much better SCII will become once they will bring their work ethics and their amazing micro/macro skills to the SCII pro scene. Unfortunately now it is just another SCII vs. BW forum slug fest with the usual arguments on both sides. | ||
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DetrA
United States148 Posts
On May 12 2011 17:48 Aurdon wrote: It is kind of interesting that a very common type of thread that gets shut down is 'BW v SC2'. They get closed so fast. Yet if you throw a couple pictures and some stats it gets front page news. The OP is trying to come off like he's bringing up some kind of discsussion that no one wants to talk about. That it is the 'Elephant in the Room.' That it is there, but no one wants to bring it up. That's just not true. I've seen dozens of these types of posts sent down to the Closed Thread section. So why does this warrant a discussion now? statistics | ||
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