The Elephant in the Room - Page 317

On July 13 2013 18:02 SoFrOsTy wrote:
@bob and @wolfinthesheep hmm I didn't say anything offensive to either of you. So no need to reply with aggression. There are many more players who have fallen off if you really want me to list them, I certainly can.

Seed, (nope he is still bad)
Sniper (gone)
Curious (pretty bad now)
Squirtle (bad now, tho joined a Kespa team)
Parting (he is in a slump since Kespa join, even tho he joined a Kespa team)
CreatorPrime,
ByunPrime,
Leenock
GuMiHo
Noblesse
Hyun (won vs only mediocre players to end up facing Polt, worst macro terran of all time in finals of MLG)
OZ
JYP
Alive
TaeJa


You mean to tell me that all of these players were bad prior to Kespa? Or you are telling me they are all in a slump? I don't fully understand. None of the players on that list compete with Soulkey, Flash, Innovation, Jangbi, sOs, Rain, Stats, or Reality. Just to name a few. Sure they can take games, but they aren't better players than these guys. Not anymore.


EDIT - I also would like to add, Life's win rate, not against Kespa players. Again other ESF players. GSTL is full of baddies even worse than the top ESF players that Life gets wins off of all the time.

On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote:
guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here

On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote:
guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here

On July 13 2013 17:51 shadymmj wrote:
sc2 is just far more volatile than we'd like.
overall the trend for hots and beyond has been a kespa takeover. undeniable truth since roro won the last liberty GSL.
as to who can survive at the top, that remains to be seen. i'd like to say bogus but he's definitely beatable. i've given up predicting who will win, because evidently a player as strong as bogus can still lose to random all-ins.

esf has no remarkable players anymore. in that sense every single one of them has been overtaken by the kespa elite. you can keep nitpicking at the article (i wish this would stop) but until esf has a good showing i don't really see the point in arguing.

On July 13 2013 19:15 Elroi wrote:

I agree with this. No one is winning consistently. This is maybe what you could call the skill ceiling...

But esf still has some remarkable players: First/Anyppi! He is just awesome. Did you see him stomp Fanta? Symbol is sometimes very impressive as well.

On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote:
guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here

On July 13 2013 02:48 SiskosGoatee wrote:

In the time that Flash has been on the scene or even in the time of HotS. Bomber has done more than Flash.

On July 13 2013 20:38 lichter wrote:


NObody responded to my original totally unprovable stupid hypothetical situation battle

Ghost of Steve Jobs playing a keytar made of knives
VS
Yogi Bear using Bubu as boxing gloves and Bubu is full of jello

On July 13 2013 17:20 SoFrOsTy wrote:



Well it is pretty simple really. The Kespa players are better for the most part, but SC 2 has so many units, builds, and possibilities that you just cannot stop every all in or new wacky build order (Example: Bomber vs Flash game 2) in SC2, unlike Broodwar, it is not as safe to play safe. Example, arguably the best macro protoss of all time that plays as safe as possible every game and usually executes better than any toss before and after him, Rain, but he still loses to all ins all the time. Flash loses to all ins. Innovations losses? All ins from Symbol and Soulkey.

Now if the article asserts every BW player will dominate, that is going too far, but the best of the best can and most likely will be, if they are not already (soulkey, innovation, Rain, Jangbi) be the best of the best in SC2.

But, there are always new players. BW didn't foster only 5 players for its entire existance, newer players already arise on the seen. But once Kespa switched over, a lot of the "great" ESF players fell off the map. Keen, MVP, MC, Nestea, Genius, DRG, Marineking, and Life. Where are they now? They are all struggling to qualify, let alone compete. The OP in this thread isn't correct on everything, but his general idea is largly true whether you choose to admit it or not. ESF is struggling, their teams are going broke and disbanding. It is hard to watch, but it is happening.

On July 14 2013 08:10 SoFrOsTy wrote:
Lol bomber is better than Flash is funny. Do you even watch their games? And not counting the 40+ wins I. Pro league as something important is also funny.

On July 13 2013 23:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Not Jangbi, but that's the point of the Article. It claimed the best BW players would also be the best SC2 players. This didn't happen, the best SC2 players aren't TBLS. Bisu and Stork are doing terribly, Flash is good, but nowhere near his BW level. And JD is okayish. But the finest SC2 KeSPA player is Bogus followed by Soulkey and Rain.

On July 13 2013 19:32 bo1b wrote:

There isn't a skill ceiling reachable in a game like dota/hon/lol, the skill ceiling hasn't been hit in sc2 either.