EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 317
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On July 13 2013 18:02 SoFrOsTy wrote: @bob and @wolfinthesheep hmm I didn't say anything offensive to either of you. So no need to reply with aggression. There are many more players who have fallen off if you really want me to list them, I certainly can. Seed, (nope he is still bad) Sniper (gone) Curious (pretty bad now) Squirtle (bad now, tho joined a Kespa team) Parting (he is in a slump since Kespa join, even tho he joined a Kespa team) CreatorPrime, ByunPrime, Leenock GuMiHo Noblesse Hyun (won vs only mediocre players to end up facing Polt, worst macro terran of all time in finals of MLG) OZ JYP Alive TaeJa You mean to tell me that all of these players were bad prior to Kespa? Or you are telling me they are all in a slump? I don't fully understand. None of the players on that list compete with Soulkey, Flash, Innovation, Jangbi, sOs, Rain, Stats, or Reality. Just to name a few. Sure they can take games, but they aren't better players than these guys. Not anymore. EDIT - I also would like to add, Life's win rate, not against Kespa players. Again other ESF players. GSTL is full of baddies even worse than the top ESF players that Life gets wins off of all the time. I didn't respond with aggression. Nice list of kespa players btw, should be good considering the majority of them have done nothing noteworthy in sc2. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote: guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here Let me get right on that. Did you see the Korean gymanst's baseball pitch. Awesomely sexy. Oh also Stats isnt all that. =3 | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote: guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here foreskin piss baloons only appear once in 100 pages. User was warned for this post | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5588 Posts
On July 13 2013 17:51 shadymmj wrote: sc2 is just far more volatile than we'd like. overall the trend for hots and beyond has been a kespa takeover. undeniable truth since roro won the last liberty GSL. as to who can survive at the top, that remains to be seen. i'd like to say bogus but he's definitely beatable. i've given up predicting who will win, because evidently a player as strong as bogus can still lose to random all-ins. esf has no remarkable players anymore. in that sense every single one of them has been overtaken by the kespa elite. you can keep nitpicking at the article (i wish this would stop) but until esf has a good showing i don't really see the point in arguing. I agree with this. No one is winning consistently. This is maybe what you could call the skill ceiling... But esf still has some remarkable players: First/Anyppi! He is just awesome. Did you see him stomp Fanta? Symbol is sometimes very impressive as well. | ||
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SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On July 13 2013 19:15 Elroi wrote: I agree with this. No one is winning consistently. This is maybe what you could call the skill ceiling... But esf still has some remarkable players: First/Anyppi! He is just awesome. Did you see him stomp Fanta? Symbol is sometimes very impressive as well. There isn't a skill ceiling reachable in a game like dota/hon/lol, the skill ceiling hasn't been hit in sc2 either. | ||
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TT1
Canada9990 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OrWHsd2.gif) | ||
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Sevre
Ireland619 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 13 2013 18:29 opterown wrote: guys we need to derail this thread again we cannot have serious discussion here NObody responded to my original totally unprovable stupid hypothetical situation battle  Ghost of Steve Jobs playing a keytar made of knives VS Yogi Bear using Bubu as boxing gloves and Bubu is full of jello | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:48 SiskosGoatee wrote: In the time that Flash has been on the scene or even in the time of HotS. Bomber has done more than Flash. Not disagreeing, but I don't follow Bomber at all, what has he accomplished in HotS? I mean, Flash took second in an MLG and he has PL and stuff. Did Bomber win something that I missed? (Completely possible, I don't follow him at all) | ||
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Rammstorm
Germany1434 Posts
Let's see how it unfolds with more time. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On July 13 2013 20:38 lichter wrote: NObody responded to my original totally unprovable stupid hypothetical situation battle Ghost of Steve Jobs playing a keytar made of knives VS Yogi Bear using Bubu as boxing gloves and Bubu is full of jello Well did Yogi enchant Bubu so his boxing gloves can harm the supernatural? Otherwise Ghost Steve should win np. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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SiskosGoatee
Albania1482 Posts
On July 13 2013 17:20 SoFrOsTy wrote: No, it's pretty simple. Bomber reached the Ro8 twice in a row now and is simply a better player who's done better than Flash. Flashed failed the U/D's 2 times in a row goddamnit. Where do you even get this idea from that Flash is actually any good? Because he got second at MLG mostly stomping foreigners? Flash is an average code S player, bomber is a higher end code S player, their results speak for themselves.Well it is pretty simple really. The Kespa players are better for the most part, but SC 2 has so many units, builds, and possibilities that you just cannot stop every all in or new wacky build order (Example: Bomber vs Flash game 2) in SC2, unlike Broodwar, it is not as safe to play safe. Example, arguably the best macro protoss of all time that plays as safe as possible every game and usually executes better than any toss before and after him, Rain, but he still loses to all ins all the time. Flash loses to all ins. Innovations losses? All ins from Symbol and Soulkey. Now if the article asserts every BW player will dominate, that is going too far, but the best of the best can and most likely will be, if they are not already (soulkey, innovation, Rain, Jangbi) be the best of the best in SC2. Not Jangbi, but that's the point of the Article. It claimed the best BW players would also be the best SC2 players. This didn't happen, the best SC2 players aren't TBLS. Bisu and Stork are doing terribly, Flash is good, but nowhere near his BW level. And JD is okayish. But the finest SC2 KeSPA player is Bogus followed by Soulkey and Rain.But, there are always new players. BW didn't foster only 5 players for its entire existance, newer players already arise on the seen. But once Kespa switched over, a lot of the "great" ESF players fell off the map. Keen, MVP, MC, Nestea, Genius, DRG, Marineking, and Life. Where are they now? They are all struggling to qualify, let alone compete. The OP in this thread isn't correct on everything, but his general idea is largly true whether you choose to admit it or not. ESF is struggling, their teams are going broke and disbanding. It is hard to watch, but it is happening. Mvp is still going strong. Keen is doing as well as he ever did and was always a 'mid tier' player. Nestea? Come ooooon, Nestea had fallen of 2 years before the switch. DRG and Marineking fell of with HotS, not with the KeSPa switch which happened before HotS, need I remind you how DRG completely stomped Bogus the one they met in WoL? MC is doing as he always did and he hasn't been a dominant force for a long time, interestingly he did very well in the first HotS tournament against KeSPa players ultimately being stopped by Life, not by a KeSPA player.No, the real people who have fallen off since the switch aren't good SC2 players, but good BW players. | ||
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SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
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Abominous
Croatia1625 Posts
On July 14 2013 08:10 SoFrOsTy wrote: Lol bomber is better than Flash is funny. Do you even watch their games? And not counting the 40+ wins I. Pro league as something important is also funny. He's a much more consistent player. And counting 40+ wins would be absurd since Bomber does not compete in Proleague, however it is a nice icing on the cake. Too bad he's missing a cake. | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On July 13 2013 23:33 SiskosGoatee wrote: Not Jangbi, but that's the point of the Article. It claimed the best BW players would also be the best SC2 players. This didn't happen, the best SC2 players aren't TBLS. Bisu and Stork are doing terribly, Flash is good, but nowhere near his BW level. And JD is okayish. But the finest SC2 KeSPA player is Bogus followed by Soulkey and Rain. it was pretty obvious that TBLS wouldnt dominate sc2. why you may ask? bisu never showed much in the last seasons of proleague. stork did ok-ish but after he suffered the 0-3 loss to fantasy in the osl final and jangbi started winning games again he lost his topspot in khan and jangbi took all the spotlight for himself. if you ask me jds form also started declining before the switch happened. the only player of those 4 that is doing really good is flash. of course he is nowhere near his level in bw but he is still one of the best players around. he has the most wins in proleague for a reason. regarding the now best kespa players in sc2. they had impressive results before the switch to sc2 happened and you could already see that they would be some of the best players in the upcoming seasons | ||
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SomethingWitty
Canada94 Posts
On July 13 2013 19:32 bo1b wrote: There isn't a skill ceiling reachable in a game like dota/hon/lol, the skill ceiling hasn't been hit in sc2 either. Great arguments. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On July 13 2013 05:13 Plansix wrote: Give the kid a bible, it'll all make sense.You are the only one who wants to misunderstand the OP. And you want it really badly, because anything else means your wrong. People have quoted the exact point where Intrigue says that 300 Kespa players have the potential to crush the scene and knowing that makes the SC2 not really worth watching. You can sugar coat it all you want, but he was just shitting on the SC2 champs of the time and saying "Wait until the Kepsa players get here, then you will see real players." They came, a lot of them got their ass kicked. A lot got in to Code S. He was wrong. People are just too superficial. | ||
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