|
On January 11 2012 09:29 SkimGuy wrote:
I like how he loses to a 2 time Code S GSL champion and a recent GSL finalist (despite taking games off of them) and people are saying he sucks.
There was nothing bad about losing to Leenock but MC just got off a plane after winning his first tournament in about 10 months. Yes he was a 2 time GSL champion a year ago but since then he had 1 good MLG performance to his name and the HSCIV was his first big win since shortly after them.
|
On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say?
He lost to the best (or second best) ZvTer in the world and the best PvTer.
|
On January 11 2012 10:23 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 09:29 SkimGuy wrote:
I like how he loses to a 2 time Code S GSL champion and a recent GSL finalist (despite taking games off of them) and people are saying he sucks. There was nothing bad about losing to Leenock but MC just got off a plane after winning his first tournament in about 10 months. Yes he was a 2 time GSL champion a year ago but since then he had 1 good MLG performance to his name and the HSCIV was his first big win since shortly after them.
I imagine he was also high on confidence having just won a major tournament, perhaps that high can outweigh the jetlag.
|
On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now....  I agree, lock this thread.
being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype.
|
On January 11 2012 00:32 Zeroxk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 00:21 chillswithhippos wrote:
ForGG practiced a couple of months and went undefeated in GSL until today, where he gave the arguably best zerg and toss a good run for their money. For a guy who made the switch to SC2 relatively late, his gameplay was damn good, and if he keeps practicing and more like him make the switch then current SC2 progamers are in for a nightmare. But that's wrong, forGG has had ladder accounts in GM since January last year or so
Yea my mistake there, but remember that his official debut was only recently. Most pros will say that playing the ladder is in fact way different from live tournaments, in which this is ForGGs first. Even if he was practicing on the ladder, Leenock and MC have been in actual team houses the whole time and been in GSL for months playing against top tier opponents. Even if he started laddering in January, he actually only went "pro" recently.
|
On January 11 2012 10:23 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 09:29 SkimGuy wrote:
I like how he loses to a 2 time Code S GSL champion and a recent GSL finalist (despite taking games off of them) and people are saying he sucks. There was nothing bad about losing to Leenock but MC just got off a plane after winning his first tournament in about 10 months. Yes he was a 2 time GSL champion a year ago but since then he had 1 good MLG performance to his name and the HSCIV was his first big win since shortly after them.
Has anyone thought that through this period MC wasn't a top korean competitor? I don't think so... There aren't enough events in Korea for every player to be winning frequently. Losing to MC, especially with the condition of TvP right now is nothing wrong.
|
On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype.
Okay? No one's denying he didn't live up to the hype (the ridiculous parts of it at least)
That doesn't mean he's not anything special. Do you remember how MVP, MC, Nestea, Leenock, any player besides FD/Rainbow really did in their first GSL? (Let alone not even Code S)
(hint: terrible)
The dudes already reinvented an old TvZ strat into a new scary build that could drastically change the metagame. Give him some credit.
Don't shit on forgg, shit on his hypers.
|
On January 11 2012 08:11 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 07:10 mrtomjones wrote:On January 11 2012 07:01 Linwelin wrote:On January 11 2012 06:25 justsayinbro wrote:On January 11 2012 05:55 blubbdavid wrote:On January 11 2012 05:50 RinconH wrote:On January 11 2012 05:46 iplayBANJO wrote:On January 11 2012 04:29 intrigue wrote:
just wanted to drop by and say that i am totally unfazed! and honestly really perplexed that people still have the shamelessness to jump in here for 'revenge'. how many times have you guys done that and gotten proven wrong all over again? You really shouldn't be surprised that the Starcraft 2 fans would act this way. This thread is only one small example of the general opinion of Brood War players and fans that Brood War is a better game than Starcraft 2, and by extension all Brood War players and fans are better than their Starcraft 2 equivalents. I suppose it could be said however, that this thread is the central focus of them based on the way it is constantly being brought up by both sides. I, for one, have grown so tired of hearing about the "good old days" of Brood War that I cannot watch the Day9 Daily, I mute the commentary of the GSL, and I find it difficult to watch State of the Game. No one denies that the level of play during the GSL open seasons was not what it is today, and I doubt anyone would even think to argue that the level of play will not continue to improve in the future. What Starcraft 2 fans, and I lump myself into the group at this point, are sick of is hearing that what they enjoy is not worth enjoying compared to what has happened in Brood War. Would you like me to compare Fruit Dealer, NesTea, and MC to people like Freemura, Grrrr..., and H.O.T-Forever? It's easy for you to look back at those players and laugh about how terrible they were compared to Brood War players today, but I bet if you watched them play back then, or at least heard about them play back then, you were just as excited about them as we were about our first champions. You, Brood War fans, opened this by becoming upset about our joy at a new found passion. I doubt any of us have talked poorly about your players, and many of us have actually gotten back into Brood War, or picked it up for the first time out of curiosity about the game that pioneered our newly acquired passion. The vast majority of Starcraft 2 fans have deep respect for the players and fans of Brood War, as well as for the game itself. We would appreciate it if you could show a little respect and encouragement to us, rather than shutting us down at every opportunity. I apologize for any disrespect shown in the responses of the Starcraft 2 fans, and I assure you it is fleeting. We just sometimes need to let off some steam after all the tension that is built up from these occasions. So please, try not to be offended by our cries of passion and more than that, try not to trivialize them. Good post but save your angst. BW fans are depressed they are attached to a diminishing game and need to lash out to feel better about themselves. Let them have their catharsis if it makes them feel any better. BW fans are depressed because SC2 is a huge disappointment. no substance, this is a clear troll. but when one argues for bw TL mods seems to ban sparingly. BW fans were really hyped about sc2 when it got announced. They were disappointed by the result though They expected the players to be as polished as a Flash type player by the end of the first month. As the poster who summarized sc2 fans thoughts on the matter said, if you looked back on the level of play/how interesting BW was at the start and compared it to today you would be every bit as disappointed. If the people who are disappointed in the results watch matches like game 7 of DRG vs MMA at the last GSL then perhaps their opinions will change. The level of play today will pale in comparison to the level of play in 10 years if sc2 is still going strong then. We will look back at MVP and think he was so flawed etc. Heck him in a year would likely pound how he is now. BW fans need to learn to be less condescending, and just accept that SC2 is moving up and enjoy its succes, because as others have said, many people have gotten back into BW just because of SC2 and many have started watching it for the first time. I pay more attention to it now myself than I ever did before and that is simply because of SC2. Stop arguing about which game is better and simply enjoy the positives of both -_- Who said that? ._. Tongue in cheek. If anything I have problems with the game design more than anything. Vanilla SC had many flaws too. BW added a ton to change that.
I agree there are many things that can get better. I hope Protoss and Zerg get more innovative chances with the next two expansions. I would say that until this game is done being developed we can never truly judge it. Maybe every matchup will be as exciting as TVZ by the end of SC2 part 3. I'll hope for that anyways :D
|
On January 11 2012 10:31 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype. Okay? No one's denying he didn't live up to the hype (the ridiculous parts of it at least) That doesn't mean he's not anything special. Do you remember how MVP, MC, Nestea, Leenock, any player besides FD/Rainbow really did in their first GSL? (Let alone not even Code S) (hint: terrible) The dudes already reinvented an old TvZ strat into a new scary build that could drastically change the metagame. Give him some credit. Don't shit on forgg, shit on his hypers.
I never said he's not good, he definitely is. But he's just that. Another good terran, out of the 10 or so really good ones in korea, with players like mvp and mma still being leagues ahead of him. I'm sure he'll make it back into code S, maybe not this season, maybe not next, but eventually he will, and someday he might even win a season. But he is definitely not special in how he was hyped.
|
Fin 6-0'd his way through Code A.
He took matches off some of the best players in the world.
He is currently competing at a high level in the most competitive Starcraft 2 league in the world.
He is also relatively new to the game.
I would say he deserves a little bit of hype...
edit: more accurate now
|
On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype.
Edit: Never mind xd
|
On January 11 2012 10:31 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype. Okay? No one's denying he didn't live up to the hype (the ridiculous parts of it at least) That doesn't mean he's not anything special. Do you remember how MVP, MC, Nestea, Leenock, any player besides FD/Rainbow really did in their first GSL? (Let alone not even Code S) (hint: terrible) The dudes already reinvented an old TvZ strat into a new scary build that could drastically change the metagame. Give him some credit. Don't shit on forgg, shit on his hypers.
Yah he is quite good and maybe will get better. I have no idea what I would think about him if he didnt have the annoying hypers  as it is I find it hard to cheer for him.. but then he did beat a couple of players I like in code A which never helps lol (July)
|
On January 11 2012 10:34 SkimGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype. ....Cause walking the royal road is certainly an easy thing to do - Only two people have done - One of them was at the beginning of BW (i.e a Fruitdealer win) and the other one is some scrub called  Jaedong
? there are a lot of royal roaders. giyom, garimto, boxer, july, anytime, savior, nada, and jaedong.
|
On January 11 2012 10:37 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:34 SkimGuy wrote:On January 11 2012 10:28 hunts wrote:On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread. being people were hyping him up as "he's gonna win code S on first try because BW is > SC2" and he gets demolished in the first round of code S, no he's nothing special and does not in any way live up to the hype. ....Cause walking the royal road is certainly an easy thing to do - Only two people have done - One of them was at the beginning of BW (i.e a Fruitdealer win) and the other one is some scrub called Jaedong ? there are a lot of royal roaders. giyom, garimto, boxer, july, anytime, savior, nada, and jaedong.
Yea I didn't see that post before, but still look at that list of players and tell me that most of them were pretty good in their prime
|
On January 11 2012 10:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 09:28 figq wrote:On January 11 2012 09:18 pique wrote:On January 11 2012 09:15 figq wrote:On January 11 2012 05:55 blubbdavid wrote:
BW fans are depressed they are attached to a diminishing game and need to lash out to feel better about themselves. I think it's rather about seeing players like MVP being so dominant without even putting the effort he would have been putting as mid-tier BW progamer. Basically many of these players are taking it easy in SC2, compared to what they had to do before, and still winning a lot. It's a little sad, MVP could actually become much better RTS player, if he was pressed to become better. what makes you think MVP is not putting in equal effort as BW pros? His play. I'm not the first to mention this argument here, and it's not about MVP in particular. None of the ex-BW progamers are currently playing as tough as they had to in BW. Maybe it's lack of motivation or the engine itself, or the generous prizes in the SC2 scene, I don't know. EDIT: It seems I should clarify that I don't imply any of these players are lacking work ethic or not putting the amount of hours. That's not it, I'm sure they play a ton of games, and spend many hours. But the game itself, in every game they play, is far from the intensity and sharpness required of them to play BW and that's very visible. I don't know what to tell you other than you have to remember that this is a completely different game. Messing up certain things in BW may not have be as large a deal in SC2 (worker efficiency). IDK if that's true or not, but it seems likely that given the fact that they are such radically different games, certain aspects of one may be emphasized, and others may be deemphesized. The way to measure "sharpness and intensity" in one game is different than in the other. Vastly different. You can't take BW skills and then say that those are RTS skills, and all other games will be judged along those lines. What works in BW probably doesn't work the same way in WC3 or SC2 or any other RTS. Show nested quote +'ve made exactly the same argument before too, and I do believe that some of the not-so-successful ex-BW pros who became SC2 monsters may have just improved as RTS players in general in the meantime, especially the younger ones. However, that doesn't change that when you watch them play you don't see them exert the amount of effort required to play high level BW. Some of them may even have devolved from their BW days, and still winning some prestige and money in SC2. They've probably improved a lot, yes, but again it seems as though you're confusing RTS skill with BW skill. RTS skill is displayed in BW, perhaps at a level that it is not displayed elsewhere. That is inarguable. But that does not mean that BW skills are the exact skills that one needs in all RTS games. Even if you consider BW the height of RTS gaming, there are RTS games that are vastly different, and cannot accurately be compared to BW in the way you are. Without specific games or events that you can cite, I don't know what to tell you about the feeling that they aren't trying as hard to win. Basically, my problem is that you are not taking the fact that SC2 is not like BW at all into account. By "intensity" I guess I mean the pace of actions required, and by "sharpness" - the degree of forgiveness for mistakes and not having to plan many parts of your strategy in advance. Those are relatively general concepts that could be compared.
Many pros have said in one form or another that SC2 now is like easy mode for them compared to their BW days. Of course, I've always been optimistic that the ease of some fundamentals will unlock more complexity in battles and in decision-making. But a year and a half later I can't say the change is significant, and SC2 is still just easy in comparison. Anyway, back to my original reply, that's the reason why some BW fans may be somewhat frustrated by SC2, and even cynical.
|
just watched the leenock vs forGG games. Wheres that elephant now?
|
On January 11 2012 13:07 nGBeast wrote:
just watched the leenock vs forGG games. Wheres that elephant now?
Are you sure you watched the game? Were you not impressed by forGG's everything?
Did you not see forGG's build which was risky at times but could have killed a zerg at many different timings?
Leenock tailored the game according to forGG's style, teching quickly and safely.
ForGG also showed creative unit composition by making small number of tanks and medivacs, which emphasized his amazing micro with marines. This freed up a lot of gas which allowed forGG to expand quickly while upgrading and teching.
Only if forGG saved the planetary fortress in the middle expansion...
I don't understand why people think he didn't live up to his expectations. Sure he lost, but definitely forGG is a great player.
|
On January 11 2012 13:33 cive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 13:07 nGBeast wrote:
just watched the leenock vs forGG games. Wheres that elephant now? Are you sure you watched the game? Were you not impressed by forGG's everything? Did you not see forGG's build which was risky at times but could have killed a zerg at many different timings? Leenock tailored the game according to forGG's style, teching quickly and safely. ForGG also showed creative unit composition by making small number of tanks and medivacs, which emphasized his amazing micro with marines. This freed up a lot of gas which allowed forGG to expand quickly while upgrading and teching. Only if forGG saved the planetary fortress in the middle expansion... I don't understand why people think he didn't live up to his expectations. Sure he lost, but definitely forGG is a great player.
Honestly i was much more impressed with supernovas play. forgg is good and all, but he's so far really nothing special as far as good terrans go, I definitely would not put him on the same level as mvp or mma or bomber or jjakji.
|
On January 11 2012 10:23 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:21 m3rciless wrote:
ok so now that everyone knows forgg is nothing special, what does intrigue say? Apparentely getting to Code S on your first try and losing to the best zerg and protoss in the world makes you nothing special now.... I agree, lock this thread.
You can say the same with his code S though. He got to code S by beating overhyped Sage, outdated July and Polt who is slumped and got kicked around by all kinds of players.
|
On January 11 2012 13:33 cive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 13:07 nGBeast wrote:
just watched the leenock vs forGG games. Wheres that elephant now? Are you sure you watched the game? Were you not impressed by forGG's everything? Did you not see forGG's build which was risky at times but could have killed a zerg at many different timings? Leenock tailored the game according to forGG's style, teching quickly and safely. ForGG also showed creative unit composition by making small number of tanks and medivacs, which emphasized his amazing micro with marines. This freed up a lot of gas which allowed forGG to expand quickly while upgrading and teching. Only if forGG saved the planetary fortress in the middle expansion... I don't understand why people think he didn't live up to his expectations. Sure he lost, but definitely forGG is a great player.
Nobody said he wasn't a great player, he's just not a player who can come and dominate the SC2 scene just because he has a rich BW history. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
