On April 18 2016 23:17 Olli wrote: Btw PvP is a gigantic coinflip atm
And what exactly is the coinflip? Stargate/no stargate?
It's mostly about openings from what I can tell. MSC scouting can win and lose you games. If you get proxy oracle'd or pylon BS'd while you're MSC scouting, you insta-lose. If you MSC scout their opening and get to adjust in time, you get super ahead (see Zest vs Hush). If there's no scouting, phoenix first still has a massive advantage over oracle first.
All in all scouting got harder, or at least more coinflippy I feel and new chronoboost makes it really unforgiving to fall behind early. Say you open oracle vs phoenix first. You're kinda just dead. Transitioning to blink takes literally a million years with new chronoboost and by the time you finally have it, you've lost 30 probes. Other option is just to play the whole game from behind.
Also doesn't help that probe production is much slower with new chronoboost, so losing probes early is even more of a death sentence than it used to be. You can see how that encourages people to flip coins for early damage.
In your honest opinion how do you think the Zest vs Dear is going to be? Dear's PvP also doesn't look top notch these days.
I don't think anyone's going to look dominant in PvP until something's done about the opening situation and disruptor nonsense. And I can't see that happening anytime soon. Openings are coinflippy because scouting is nearly impossible and that's incredibly hard to help with. Disruptors will always be the most powerful PvP ground unit by design. No matter how much you tweak it, it always will be. I wrote a gigantic wall of text about that somewhere but can't find it, but the gist of it is:
Disruptors have to deal massive damage in one shot or the unit is absolutely useless. The attack also has to move very quickly or it becomes too easy to dodge and the unit becomes useless. In other words, disruptors will always deal huge damage and move fast. Protoss units are slow. You can't dodge disruptor balls in a fight with any protoss ground unit except blink stalkers. So unless you make the disruptor completely useless, it will always blow up every protoss ground army except another stalker/disruptor ball.
I don't care if people like watching shit explode, fact is that disruptors make the matchup really silly and volatile. Strategic advantages are almost irrelevant compared to disruptor hits, unless you end the game before it gets there or you have such a huge advantage that you can blink on everything and just win anyway.
I think Zest is the much smarter player, his openings are more intelligent and refined (but keep in mind, all openings are coinflippy atm) and he's got one of the best practice partners in Stats. But Dear's engagement control seems better. It's a 50/50 match for me because LotV PvP is dumb.
On April 19 2016 17:12 Olli wrote: I don't think anyone's going to look dominant in PvP until something's done about the opening situation and disruptor nonsense. And I can't see that happening anytime soon. Openings are coinflippy because scouting is nearly impossible and that's incredibly hard to help with. Disruptors will always be the most powerful PvP ground unit by design. No matter how much you tweak it, it always will be. I wrote a gigantic wall of text about that somewhere but can't find it, but the gist of it is:
Disruptors have to deal massive damage in one shot or the unit is absolutely useless. The attack also has to move very quickly or it becomes too easy to dodge and the unit becomes useless. In other words, disruptors will always deal huge damage and move fast. Protoss units are slow. You can't dodge disruptor balls in a fight with any protoss ground unit except blink stalkers. So unless you make the disruptor completely useless, it will always blow up every protoss ground army except another stalker/disruptor ball.
I don't care if people like watching shit explode, fact is that disruptors make the matchup really silly and volatile. Strategic advantages are almost irrelevant compared to disruptor hits, unless you end the game before it gets there or you have such a huge advantage that you can blink on everything and just win anyway.
I think Zest is the much smarter player, his openings are more intelligent and refined (but keep in mind, all openings are coinflippy atm) and he's got one of the best practice partners in Stats. But Dear's engagement control seems better. It's a 50/50 match for me because LotV PvP is dumb.
I agree, I thought Blink/Disruptor was dumb since the Parting vs ShoWTimE series but everyone thought it was cool.
I know Zest will completly rekt snute in the kung fu cup but can it at least be 3:2 because i won't enjoy the game if it is just snute getting a beatdown like taeja.
On April 20 2016 05:12 plasma4 wrote: I know Zest will completly rekt snute in the kung fu cup but can it at least be 3:2 because i won't enjoy the game if it is just snute getting a beatdown like taeja.
It's a different match up, I think the most realistic score would be 3:1 win for Zest
On April 20 2016 20:51 Lil_nooblet wrote: Ya I don't think he is taking this series that seriously lol. I doubt he has practiced much PvZ recently especially on these maps.
but just using one build that doesn't even work repeatedly is just stupid, would have understand if he go PICA 3 times in a row or something
On April 20 2016 20:51 Lil_nooblet wrote: Ya I don't think he is taking this series that seriously lol. I doubt he has practiced much PvZ recently especially on these maps.
but just using one build that doesn't even work repeatedly is just stupid, would have understand if he go PICA 3 times in a row or something
the first series he drop must be a 3-0 lost, I will admit that I'm very unhappy and unimpressed by this. Even if he didn't prepare he can't just play like he lended his computer to some random Master and below player to play that for him. That said, he better win his GSL match on Friday or else I'm gonna be really disappointed
Yeah no doubt he should have played much better even if he hasn't practiced PvZ. I think some of it had to do with him barely playing the new maps, not knowing the eu zerg meta, and him probably just having an off series. Snute played extremely well so I don't want to take anything away from him but I wouldn't be too worried about it. He has been crushing his opponents when he actually prepares like in gsl.
I was suprise actually. I wont go into the discussion about this but I wonder how the iing issue affecting gameplay. From KR vs US, from US to KR. From EU to Kr, and etc.
I like to cheer for Snute as well, he is very cool and his skilled. We all know about Zest v Z, i really like it and was suprised about Zest losing series... Zest is best! Zest must win on friday!
EPT
. In that particular game it was like the player was in diffirents Code S/A leagues. 
