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Silvana
3713 Posts
I think it was a bad decision on his part to move out with the Phoenixes. I know he had already killed two Overlords and you need to slow down the Zerg economy, but imo he should have checked for more Overlords near his base before leaving. It's not like Rogue went 3hatch before pool and needed to be slowed down asap. Small mistake but topped with Zerg bullshit resulted in a loss  How were the other games? Does he look sharp Edit: saw the schedule change. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 22 2016 21:20 Silvana wrote: I only watched the ace match when it had already started. I think it was a bad decision on his part to move out with the Phoenixes. I know he had already killed two Overlords and you need to slow down the Zerg economy, but imo he should have checked for more Overlords near his base before leaving. It's not like Rogue went 3hatch before pool and needed to be slowed down asap. Small mistake but topped with Zerg bullshit resulted in a loss How were the other games? Does he look sharp Edit: saw the schedule change. He still looks pretty invincible against Terran. Like, if you watch the VODs look at how much Stats struggles with Maru and how easy Zest makes it look. Disappointed we lost to Jin Air in all-kill again, for what feels like the 20th consecutive time. I think if TY didn't fuck up his game against Maru we'd have won comfortably. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
Regarding TY I *** WARNING: pessimism ahead ***  I love him, I really really love him, but he has broken my fan heart several times and now I feel like he will never be a player you can rely on with confidence, like Zest. That makes me so sad, because he is so young and has so much to give yet... | ||
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[16thSq] Kuro
1217 Posts
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Wallenberg
203 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 22 2016 21:36 Silvana wrote: Definitely feels like the 20th time. This time sOs was killed right away and we still lost the match Regarding TY I *** WARNING: pessimism ahead *** I love him, I really really love him, but he has broken my fan heart several times and now I feel like he will never be a player you can rely on with confidence, like Zest. That makes me so sad, because he is so young and has so much to give yet...TY just sometimes makes weird decisions. I think his mentality is kinda weak. He took a great fight that left him 40 supply up at one point, but didn't find himself able to do anything with it. Later he killed Maru's entire main base, including every production building. Usually getting all the production is a win condition in TvT. He took his 4th base on the left side of the map but his 5th base on the right. That's so far apart on Orbital that if you hit both at the same time in TvT, at least one base can't be defended. I think to truly shine he needs that confidence boost of finally winning something. The problem with that is that I'm not sure he can get it. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 22 2016 22:14 Olli wrote: No reason at all to stay at home with phoenixes. It's more about PvZ in general, protoss has exactly one build and zergs can do whatever they want after figuring out they're not being all-inned. That's how strategies like this become powerful since Rogue (and every other zerg) knows this phoenix opener perfectly by now and they can all find builds to exploit it. What all-ins are even that good for PvZ atm? Adept/phoenix was all the rage for like 2 weeks until people figured out how to handle that. With the faster start I think most all-ins Zerg can handle fine enough now. I don't know, it feels like atm Protoss is somewhat forced to play macro, and basically the same way every time. And whenever I offrace as Protoss, it's generally me who gets all-inned by the Zerg. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Silvana
3713 Posts
Possible reasons are that you could be dropped or nydused... It was unlikely after Zest hunted 3 ovies, but the map is big and Rogue could have been hiding ovies somewhere (in fact, Rogue dropped with 2 ovies and he didn't even had to go to the corners of the map to hide them). I'm not saying Zest should have stayed at home with his Phoenixes forever, just do one more patrol with at least one of them, to make sure there isn't any ovie (or 2!) about to drop you. Besides, he moved out with what? 3 phoenixes? how many drones can you kill with that? I guess 6 tops. If you move out just a bit later (after patrolling your base once, to make sure you're safe) you can still kill those 6 drones. Yeah those 6 would have been mining for longer time, but you will also be able to kill more (more energy built and higher number of phoenixes) and, more importantly, you are not dead :D Maybe moving out wasn't that bad of a decision, or not a big deal, but as Elentos said Zest reacted very poorly to the drops, not pulling his probes. No way he would have an army to beat the nydus after losing 18 probes like that. /(gold league analysis to cope with the loss) | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
PvZ is troublesome. BisuDagger was arguing about pylon placement in the LR earlier, didn't wanna start that argument but he's sort of wrong. Spotting pylons on the edges would have helped against this build, but they also would have taken away from his defense of a straight up roach/ling/ravager all in (which are very powerful and very popular). So again, you'd have to make a choice early that leaves your defense weaker against one thing while making it better against another. Seeing the drops as they fly into his mineral lines simultaneously is super hard to defend. Not only did he not have any scouting intel on Rogue's build, the drops also came in during a decent scout timing and Zest was microing phoenixes on the other side of the map at the same time. Naturally all his units are in the front in case of any ling run-ins. He actually reacted quite quickly considering he first saw the banelings as they dropped out. But that was still easily enough to win the game for Rogue. So essentially: there's no catch-all build or trick to do in early game PvZ, but protoss still has to try and play as if there was, cause nothing else works. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
I guess this is what people base his arguments on, when they say there's a balance issue in PvZ. It certainly looks like a disadvantage to me. Well, let's see how he does against soO on GSL... It looks rought so he better pull off a lot of bullshit | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
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Silvana
3713 Posts
On March 23 2016 00:09 Elentos wrote: I hope he can somehow avoid facing this. Take a look at the names tho | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
Still, 41 matches in a row. And online matches too, where many people overperform like crazy. That streak is no coincidence, and I hope Zest will be ready if they face off. Especially since PvZ is already in a bad place, we don't need Solar to show off godmode. I think Zest can safely beat anyone in the late game (with tempests and such), but it's rough getting there vs Zerg. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
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NinjaToss
Austria1383 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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[16thSq] Kuro
1217 Posts
BTW have you seen that show they keep advertising during breaks? Zest seems to be having fun there, I think it was the first time I actually heard him giggle :D Too bad there are no subtitles | ||
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