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imre
France9263 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:21 Seeker wrote: 1-1-1 is not viable anymore. Because of the MSC. In fact, TvP early game no longer exists. it exists in a particular way: the struggle to be alive when you get 4medivacs. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
I am indeed mad. in particular because blizz is always quick to fix any terran strat or unit that seems overpowered, but takes aaaages to nerf zerg or protoss stuff that is OP against us. it has basically been constant misery since the queen range buff for terrans... thats over 1.5 years. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On January 22 2014 20:44 dargul wrote: One day i lost 10 TvP in a row... Then i took a knife and draw this smile... Neither toss can make me sad now... ![[image loading]](http://vpcdn4.virtus.pro/upload/main/270/joker-marine.jpg) I am disturbed. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 24 2014 22:24 NovaMB wrote: He was balance whining pretty hard in sc2 general, maybe hes banned Haters :-) | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25 My opinions: + Show Spoiler + Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)! Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0 Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 25 2014 20:55 SC2Toastie wrote: The changes are roughly the scope I was hoping for. Especially if the ghost change makes it through. Small tweaks, a little at a time.Opinions on the proposed Patch Changes by Mister D-Kim? Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25 My opinions: + Show Spoiler + Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)! Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0 Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs? | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 25 2014 21:40 Danglars wrote: The changes are roughly the scope I was hoping for. Especially if the ghost change makes it through. Small tweaks, a little at a time. I dislike the Ghost change not because it's a buff, but because I dislike how many upgrades are being removed - The game loses a lot of stylistic play by doing that. Furthermore, I see no nerf/change to Protoss all ins that are soo damn strong and no change to how Terran has no early OR midgame weapons and is forced into the lategame on the backfoot, where the stronger army even get's itself a buff :O | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 25 2014 21:44 SC2Toastie wrote: I dislike the Ghost change not because it's a buff, but because I dislike how many upgrades are being removed - The game loses a lot of stylistic play by doing that. Furthermore, I see no nerf/change to Protoss all ins that are soo damn strong and no change to how Terran has no early OR midgame weapons and is forced into the lategame on the backfoot, where the stronger army even get's itself a buff :O You're referring to the tempest buff? I see tempests in a late game protoss army against me maybe 1/10 games I go to the late game in or less. All ins are slightly nerfed by the nerf to time warp so I guess that's fairly good. I like the ghost change though I see your point about removal of upgrades. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On January 25 2014 00:55 ZenithM wrote: Nah, it was more like "Guys, Protoss are losing like crazy in Proleague, so you see, it's not clear that TvP is impossible to win!". What's funny is that the only Terrans who play in Proleague are the ones who are good enough (read, twice or thrice as good as their opponent) to get some points, and there are only 3 of them. Of course they are losing like crazy when they make like 50% of Proleague players that actually come out. They will also lose like crazy in Code S because they also make almost 50% of all players there as well. Most of those guys are not Dear, Parting or Rain. Yonghwa did nothing in WoL, now he is Code S and Innovation is Code B. And when he loses to someone like Soulkey, someone will say: hey protoss is doing bad in Code S | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
i dont actually like the PO duration nerf, as it is a spell that has really changed pvp for the better. tempest buff is ridiculous. that unit just sucks for both players and spectators. same with swarm hosts... i welcome some sort of hydra buff. would be nice to see more variety in zerg compositions. but i think cutting their gas cost in half is too much and will break at least some matchups. why not make them 100/35? | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 26 2014 05:29 Black Gun wrote: a vision range nerf on MSC is mandatory. no way around that. i dont actually like the PO duration nerf, as it is a spell that has really changed pvp for the better. tempest buff is ridiculous. that unit just sucks for both players and spectators. same with swarm hosts... i welcome some sort of hydra buff. would be nice to see more variety in zerg compositions. but i think cutting their gas cost in half is too much and will break at least some matchups. why not make them 100/35? Vision range is indeed a nice solution for that. Tempest are really positional and weak when out of position. Swarm Host have a pretty much full time moving shield that regenerates full HP every 25 seconds. On the current map pool it is nigh impossible to abuse the Locust Cooldown because of how the Hosts operate. THAT is the problem. 100/35 won't happen because costs all are divisible by 25. An important thing to keep in mind is that the majority of Hydra cost is up front with 250/250 in upgrades. That is the biggest delay/hurdle for Hydra play. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
On January 27 2014 00:55 The_Templar wrote: Innovation vs MC game 5. Wow. Not sure if I should be happy that MC is in another finals, annoyed that Innovation lost to blink, or content that a player I like will win anyway. I'm happy that we'll get to see a super high level TvT rather than another boring TvP. Even the best TvPs don't compare with some average high level TvTs. I'm still a bit frustrated by the state of TvP though. I don't think at this point there's anyway to deny that blink is a problem, most likely due to the mothership core. At least game 1 was pretty cool in that series though. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
I simply don't quite feel like the better player won....  | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On January 27 2014 01:03 Bagration wrote: Hero over Taeja? MC over Innovation? I simply don't quite feel like the better player won.... If the better player always won TaeJa would undisputedly be a bonjwa  | ||
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