Please excuse my terrible image-manipulation skills
Welcome to the Mad Marine Fanclub!
Why are we Mad? We're Marines. We're no sad and sobbing Zealots!!! We're angry!! We're mad Flash lost! Bravo went out! Keen died! Gumiho OUT! Protoss everywhere! No TvT's! Blink all in! Mutalisk clouds! Daedalus Point! ZvProleague!
Or the Ghost Nerf after 1 MVP game! Or the removal of Warhounds! (Well, not really... :-)) Or Hellbat Nerfs for TvT! Or random Oracle buffs! Or Mine Nerfs because the balanced matchup got 'Stale'! Or this (actually just fun stuff ): This: + Show Spoiler [Blizzard Comic Winner 2011 (Warning -…] +
(Click image for entire comic - highly advised!)
JOIN THE RESISTANCE AND SUPPORT JINAIRGREENWINGS MARU!
A lot of forum-goers on TL are getting slightly frustrated at the constant balance whine in LR threads, or anywhere for that matter. The Sad Zealot Fanclub did a pretty decent job of containing said sadness, frustrations, disappointments, etcetera. I hope this thread can do the same. For a more fun forum experience for everybody and a lot of malicious pleasure and self-pity for ourselves!
Good News! Only 50% of Code S is Protoss AND WE'VE MANAGED TO GET ALMOST 10 PERCENT TERRAN IN THERE!!!!!!
I'll sign up. Terrans are the good guys in StarCraft, everyone knows that. Our race is harder, so our wins are worth more, and our losses are BULLSHIT.
I used to love the Protoss race, but SC2 manhandled it by making it an all-in/deathball kind of race. I feel so sorry for the Terran who can't have free units or cannot reach the super late game with nukes and mules-only tactics.
And to sweeten the deal, here's my angry face:
So, am I in?
And I have placed Maru on my FPL for the whole time! All hail the new Terran God! (Sorry, Flash )
Well. This thread describes precisely, why I hate SC2 right now. The game itself is great, but what David Kim balanced out since HotS release is a fuckin bad joke. TvZ: Play 2hour mech turtle or lose. TvP: Hope you don´t get allined by some shit or lose. sign me up
I thought protoss was op from the beginning of HOTS. The game was still being figured out so people tried to find answers and if you look now, everyone thinks protoss is too good. Hellbat & mine (new units in hots) both got nerfed. Hellbat isn't an option in TvP anymore and TvP is now back to WOL except protoss has 20 options and have free vision blink all in, dumb hero unit MSC that carries out 10 different jobs, and now oracle with buffed speed. Mad? I'm furious.
Í'm in. I've been in a for a while, but you didn't know it.
Other things to be mad about: DK deciding to shelve balance changes after 1 week of proleague (literally two players doing well against P on weird maps).
On January 22 2014 20:41 Wombat_NI wrote: As a retired Protoss (because I have dignity) I just hope you can accept me as Jim Raynor once embraced Fenix
I've been encouraged to come in this thread by a Teamliquid mod so why not? I'm not neccesarily mad but I do think the "meta" right now is just awful. Everything protoss... Proxy lolracle-- check Mothership core "omg BRILLIANT timewarp" and Nexus Planetary Fortress- check other random all ins especially blink- check other stuff that piss me off like warp gates, bah, just everything really
Marines get hard countered by everything except for maybe Zerglings and Zealots. Versus Protoss, they are stuck making marines in order to defend against oracles, but then, if they make too many marines, Protoss ends up winning with blink stalkers. This makes me furious.
Im going from really damn mad to depressed now. This is such bullshit. Seeing herO bully innovation with blink stalkers and the proceed to get economic advantage and tech advantage is infuriating. And the trend in TvZ isnt looking to good either, apart from the success some seem to have with mech.
On January 22 2014 21:44 Fjodorov wrote: Im going from really damn mad to depressed now. This is such bullshit. Seeing herO bully innovation with blink stalkers and the proceed to get economic advantage and tech advantage is infuriating. And the trend in TvZ isnt looking to good either, apart from the success some seem to have with mech.
Ghost nerf was stupid considering it was extremely APM intensive (then again, what part of Terran micro isn't APM intensive). Yeah, we don't want Warhounds, but I don't mind bringing them back while doing 0 damage to anything not Protoss. I mean, Protoss can just use Photon Overcharge with a few Sentries and Zealots to defend it right? LOL Glad for Hellbat nerfs. I felt bad for Zerg players and it made Bio beyond frustrating to play (though I've played mech since before Hellbats became popular). I never felt in the least bit bad anytime a Hellbat was dropped on a Protoss Probe line. Not the slightest. Those Oracle buffs... Like... SERIOUSLY...? It's like those random upgrade cost reductions for Protoss. While I was fine with Shield costs going down, for everything to go down when they already had Chrono Boost to create retarded upgrade timings... What...? Why don't we just make them cost nothing but Minerals... I'm sure that'd go well with the Protoss players. Given that a majority of them have always been the type to sell their souls for cheap wins, I honestly don't think they'd mind in the slightest. Mine nerfs sucked, but it didn't really make too much of a noticeable difference. They're still good, and they still do plenty of work. We got those Sky Terran buffs in return, which in my opinion is BEYOND unfair for any Terran or Zerg who runs into a Meching Terran. I don't feel particularly bad for playing mech in TvT, but I wasn't a big Sky Terran guy to begin with, to my own discredit (it's always been pretty good). Mothership Core is just the biggest troll ever made. Great for offense when combined with Blink. Great for defense combined with Force Fields, Zealots, and a Nexus. Great in fights too. Nice micro skills man, now try to dodge my storms and kite my Zealots with 2 Time Warps over 2/3s of your army while I laugh my ass off. Ultras are also... More than a bit strong... But hey, if Zergs are stuck on Lair Tech if you play well anyways, you'll never see them.
But in all seriousness, HOW IN THE FUCKING HELL DO KR MASTERS TERRANS HAVE NEARLY A 50% WINRATE AGAINST PROTOSS?! HOLY SHIT! I knew KR Terrans were beasts, but I didn't know they were THAT incredible! Then again, how do those same beasts not have a positive winrate in TvZ?! Okay... Game is legit broken. If KR Terrans of all people can't manage to break a 50% winrate, nobody can (at the highest level, cause KR Terrans are fucking insane). But seriously, fuck stats. Can we just remove Terran and Zerg as a race and all conform to the great OP? Or remove Protoss and have a pretty well-balanced game? Ugh... Maybe Starbow will be our savior... Only thing missing is a decent automated ladder.
On January 22 2014 21:22 AxionSteel wrote: I've been encouraged to come in this thread by a Teamliquid mod so why not? I'm not neccesarily mad but I do think the "meta" right now is just awful. Everything protoss... Proxy lolracle-- check Mothership core "omg BRILLIANT timewarp" and Nexus Planetary Fortress- check other random all ins especially blink- check other stuff that piss me off like warp gates, bah, just everything really
Zerg- free units.
Honestly, I just heard Wolf yell out "GREAT TIMEWARP ON THE RAMP!" And I just rolled my eyes... Do you see how fucking big the AoE on that damn thing is? How about the cast range? Like, how the fuck can you fail to put down a decent Time Warp? You'd have to be handicapped or trolling.
On January 22 2014 21:44 Fjodorov wrote: Im going from really damn mad to depressed now. This is such bullshit. Seeing herO bully innovation with blink stalkers and the proceed to get economic advantage and tech advantage is infuriating. And the trend in TvZ isnt looking to good either, apart from the success some seem to have with mech.
You know what's worse than the games herO took off of INnoVation? The game he NEARLY took off of him. Let me just... Attack you all day, and when I FINALLY abuse an opening to put myself ahead, you just force a base trade that you nearly won.
Starting to get kind of hard to ignore the fact that PvT is pretty fucking easy, especially when you're actually used to playing the relatively balanced version that existed in WoL.
I've tried my best to stay away from balance whining, and I want to preface this post by saying I think the game is mostly balanced right now, but TvP early game makes me want to lie down in front of a steamroller. I'm not a good player by any means, but having 85 APM and losing to a 31 (!!!) APM Protoss on one base is infuriating.
On January 22 2014 22:59 RaZorwire wrote: I've tried my best to stay away from balance whining, and I want to preface this post by saying I think the game is mostly balanced right now, but TvP early game makes me want to lie down in front of a steamroller. I'm not a good player by any means, but having 85 APM and losing to a 31 (!!!) APM Protoss on one base is infuriating.
Let's hope Blizzard are watching Code A.
Dude, Protoss is all about decision making, much more so than Terran. While we try to get out of impossible situations through hard-practiced but purely mechanical and mindless perfect micro, Protoss has to think of which ramp he's gonna throw his time warp on. Like, it's gotta be between your 2 bases, but the Protoss has to decide if he wants to throw it between the first and the second, or the second and the first. Protoss have it rough so stop complaining.
On January 22 2014 22:59 RaZorwire wrote: I've tried my best to stay away from balance whining, and I want to preface this post by saying I think the game is mostly balanced right now, but TvP early game makes me want to lie down in front of a steamroller. I'm not a good player by any means, but having 85 APM and losing to a 31 (!!!) APM Protoss on one base is infuriating.
Let's hope Blizzard are watching Code A.
Dude, Protoss is all about decision making, much more so than Terran. While we try to get out of impossible situations through hard-practiced but purely mechanical and mindless perfect micro, Protoss has to think of which ramp he's gonna throw his time warp on. Like, it's gotta be between your 2 bases, but the Protoss has to decide if he wants to throw it between the first and the second, or the second and the first. Protoss have it rough so stop complaining.
If you gonna defend toss you are clearly on the wrong thread...
On January 22 2014 22:59 RaZorwire wrote: I've tried my best to stay away from balance whining, and I want to preface this post by saying I think the game is mostly balanced right now, but TvP early game makes me want to lie down in front of a steamroller. I'm not a good player by any means, but having 85 APM and losing to a 31 (!!!) APM Protoss on one base is infuriating.
Let's hope Blizzard are watching Code A.
Dude, Protoss is all about decision making, much more so than Terran. While we try to get out of impossible situations through hard-practiced but purely mechanical and mindless perfect micro, Protoss has to think of which ramp he's gonna throw his time warp on. Like, it's gotta be between your 2 bases, but the Protoss has to decide if he wants to throw it between the first and the second, or the second and the first. Protoss have it rough so stop complaining.
If you gonna defend toss you are clearly on the wrong thread...
On January 22 2014 22:59 RaZorwire wrote: I've tried my best to stay away from balance whining, and I want to preface this post by saying I think the game is mostly balanced right now, but TvP early game makes me want to lie down in front of a steamroller. I'm not a good player by any means, but having 85 APM and losing to a 31 (!!!) APM Protoss on one base is infuriating.
Let's hope Blizzard are watching Code A.
Dude, Protoss is all about decision making, much more so than Terran. While we try to get out of impossible situations through hard-practiced but purely mechanical and mindless perfect micro, Protoss has to think of which ramp he's gonna throw his time warp on. Like, it's gotta be between your 2 bases, but the Protoss has to decide if he wants to throw it between the first and the second, or the second and the first. Protoss have it rough so stop complaining.
If you gonna defend toss you are clearly on the wrong thread...
so this is essentially a balance whine thread for terran players then? Either way, I can't say much except colossi used to frustrate me back when I used to play the game. Ultralisks weren't a problem in WoL with micro, but now they are also a pain lol
so I saw innovation lost to two protosses, then I checked my subscribed threads, not surprised to see this at the top At least stork didn't get the opportunity to beat innovation, that could cause serious balance whine/bans
Not a balance whine thread. A thread where you can express your frustrations at the game without contaminating and flamebaiting in the regular forums and with probably a slightly reduced risk at warnings.
On January 23 2014 01:44 The_Templar wrote: so I saw innovation lost to two protosses, then I checked my subscribed threads, not surprised to see this at the top At least stork didn't get the opportunity to beat innovation, that could cause serious balance whine/bans
If Stork had beaten Innovation, then there would be something very very wrong with the matchup.
I wish for all toss players dicks to be rubbend in broken glass then put vinegar on the wounds and then let 1000 camel flies feast on the rest. After that they can be flayed alive nice and slowly. That describes 10% of my anger at toss toss players and people going stop being negative blabla stfu pls...
On January 23 2014 03:02 GumBa wrote: I wish for all toss players dicks to be rubbend in broken glass then put vinegar on the wounds and then let 1000 camel flies feast on the rest. After that they can be flayed alive nice and slowly. That describes 10% of my anger at toss toss players and people going stop being negative blabla stfu pls...
The world is on the brink of the edge of the border of chaos and only our lord and savior Maru can find the small cracks in the colossal amor the zealous enemy.
On January 23 2014 03:02 GumBa wrote: I wish for all toss players dicks to be rubbend in broken glass then put vinegar on the wounds and then let 1000 camel flies feast on the rest. After that they can be flayed alive nice and slowly. That describes 10% of my anger at toss toss players and people going stop being negative blabla stfu pls...
Hey, careful! I'm a Protoss fan, but I am just as disgusted with the Protoss imbalance in PvT as you are
Raise storm duration from 4 to 6 sec but keep the 80 dmg. Storm is just too strong (too difficult to handle) on lower as well as on higher leagues. That would be sth ... more of a support spell than a "1-Klick-Kill" ability. Maybe reduce the duration of PO too.
Anyways, switched from Zerg to Terran long time ago, still did not manage to reach platinum. >_> Micro ist just too hard.
it's totally possible, inno was in a good spot before the storm drop. it's just you can't do anything against someone who knows how to transition out of a blink build and that's shitty gameplay.
can someone give me more than 1 game when a P died immediately after a blink all in in which he did not lose all of his stalkers? Or is it just a mod that doesn't understand shit about the game and can't even open his eyes.
ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
On January 23 2014 19:15 michlin wrote: ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
Dont leave matches,just cheese them.You might get some points and piss off toss player lol
On January 23 2014 19:15 michlin wrote: ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
Dont leave matches,just cheese them.You might get some points and piss off toss player lol
Or float some CCs in every corner while getting a snack or smth to eat.
On January 23 2014 19:15 michlin wrote: ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
Dont leave matches,just cheese them.You might get some points and piss off toss player lol
Or float some CCs in every corner while getting a snack or smth to eat.
i have actually been playing vs toss since 2.1 and the games i win the toss has the fucking audacity to say terran imba LFAO!!! just stim and amove lolololol, never mind i had 34 army supply vs his 12 on 2 bases
On January 23 2014 19:15 michlin wrote: ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
Dont leave matches,just cheese them.You might get some points and piss off toss player lol
I did that for a bit. But it still wastes so much time to play out even a 11 11.
It will be interesting to see if David Kim calls the matchup balanced after Taeja and Bomber rape some second class Protoss players in WCS AM and equalize the winrates
On January 23 2014 19:15 michlin wrote: ive been so goddamn angry watching this matchup the last few months, but now its just me laughing despairingly at every TvP i watch in code-A with my wife sat on the sofa saying "what the hell are u laughing at?" and i just say TvP and she says oh ye lol thats funny. i just leave every game vs toss on ladder now, its just a waste of time
Dont leave matches,just cheese them.You might get some points and piss off toss player lol
Or float some CCs in every corner while getting a snack or smth to eat.
i have actually been playing vs toss since 2.1 and the games i win the toss has the fucking audacity to say terran imba LFAO!!! just stim and amove lolololol, never mind i had 34 army supply vs his 12 on 2 bases
I play in diamond, always try this: Getting 2 more baracks then i should on 2 base, get my 2 medivacs and get in front of his natural. Load a medi and fly it somewhere while scanning and killing his obs. Then i bring my medi back and just stim my tight ball into his nat. Most of my oppoents react too slow and the nexus cannon and their FF dont matter any more :D
Edit: Maybe not the best terrans this day, but common.
So far in Code A, there have been 15 TvP Bo3s, and Terran only won 1 Bo3.
On top of that, the sole Terran win was a narrow 2-1 victory, against a teamless Hurricane. Something is very very wrong in Korea, and you have to be blind not to see it. Now whether or not this is a problem with balance or map pool or play pool or a combination of factors has to be determined, but you cannot simply sit there and say "all is well" because it is not well.
Well, that's promising that they realize that there is a problem. It's certainly an improvement from WoL when the team would insist that balance was still alright in the days of BL-infestor.
Now let's hope that these changes get implemented.
That wont change anything with Blink allins. Timewarp doesnt change much , they'll still be able to use 2 of them. All it does is save 100/100 (or whatever the upgrade costs) for lategame They'll need to come up with something else
And the response by DK is a balance map that isn't even published yet that has cosmetic changes that do nothing about Blink-allins and the oracle, nor the actual lategame, but does buff hydra and tempests (the latter is especially weak against mech )
Screw dis, im a happy confused hellbat (am I bio?! or am I mech ?!) , despite all the buffs terrans recieved recently I can still win every game, decently.
Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at.
Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at.
Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at.
So please tell me i am either stupid or this is already 2 weeks old, but basicly he is saying Protoss is doing bad?
Nah, it was more like "Guys, Protoss are losing like crazy in Proleague, so you see, it's not clear that TvP is impossible to win!". What's funny is that the only Terrans who play in Proleague are the ones who are good enough (read, twice or thrice as good as their opponent) to get some points, and there are only 3 of them.
I need to be a member of this like yesterday. I practiced TvP exclusively for 2 weeks and still keep a healthy 40% winrate in the MU. Yay blink :D
I was actually a huge Maru antifan cause he killed my boy Innovation but Inno's fallen to the Protoss scourge and I need Maru to show me the way! (i.e. tell me to play like a Code S terran to consistently win games xD)
Also SuperNova left me with a great taste in my mouth, here's hoping!
I'm ready for the autosplit ai for marines. Bring it blizz. My wrists are ready!
Eugh, too sad. My friend has finally stopped playing RTS, so fed up with playing Terran and the state of SC2. He ground his ass off, was really close to GM EU and just decided enough was enough. I respect his decision, he's going to like, go outside and stuff, but a chapter of my life that started when we were both 13 year olds really getting into Warcraft 3 together is over now
I am indeed mad. in particular because blizz is always quick to fix any terran strat or unit that seems overpowered, but takes aaaages to nerf zerg or protoss stuff that is OP against us.
it has basically been constant misery since the queen range buff for terrans... thats over 1.5 years.
On January 22 2014 20:44 dargul wrote: One day i lost 10 TvP in a row... Then i took a knife and draw this smile... Neither toss can make me sad now...
Opinions on the proposed Patch Changes by Mister D-Kim?
Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25
Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like
So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)!
Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0
Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs?
On January 25 2014 20:55 SC2Toastie wrote: Opinions on the proposed Patch Changes by Mister D-Kim?
Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25
Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like
So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)!
Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0
Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs?
The changes are roughly the scope I was hoping for. Especially if the ghost change makes it through. Small tweaks, a little at a time.
On January 25 2014 20:55 SC2Toastie wrote: Opinions on the proposed Patch Changes by Mister D-Kim?
Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25
Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like
So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)!
Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0
Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs?
The changes are roughly the scope I was hoping for. Especially if the ghost change makes it through. Small tweaks, a little at a time.
I dislike the Ghost change not because it's a buff, but because I dislike how many upgrades are being removed - The game loses a lot of stylistic play by doing that.
Furthermore, I see no nerf/change to Protoss all ins that are soo damn strong and no change to how Terran has no early OR midgame weapons and is forced into the lategame on the backfoot, where the stronger army even get's itself a buff :O
On January 25 2014 20:55 SC2Toastie wrote: Opinions on the proposed Patch Changes by Mister D-Kim?
Refresher: Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Hydralist from 100/50->100/25
Overcharge from 60->50 seconds Changed the nerf for the sake of PvP from 40 to 50 seconds, still does nothing for Terran because the window to deal damage expires regardless. PS Hellbats were nerfed to shits for TvT without a problem...?! Time Warp from 75->100 Energy Cool, MSC can now cast 2 Time Warps instead of 2 Time Warps!!!!! Ghost Mobius Reactor Removed->Starting Energy 75 Interesting, I think this dumbs the game down, but it's a minor buff, so well. I'll take it. Increases the strike timing for the 3 Ghost SCV all in with a couple of seconds (you generated that 25 extra energy on the way there anyways) Tempest gain +200%/+300% DPS vs Structures Chargelot Warp Ins made defending an expo hard? haha. Hydralisk from 100/50->100/25 I feel like this is a buff for ZvP, but it scares me to shits how fast a Roach Hydra 2/2 timing can transition now 0.0, but it might just as well be nothing major and bring some variety because Roach Hydra is no longer a real 3 base all in with no transition which I like
So, all in all, pretty irrelevant MSC nerfs to Protoss (in case of TvP, IMO this is pretty bad for PvP!), buff for Tempest/Hydralisk and a buff to Ghosts that get's you a few seconds faster on your all in or one extra Ghost for free :-)!
Don't remind me of how fast and hard the Ghost/Mine/Hellbat/Siege Tank/SCV/Thor/Battlecruiser/Viking/Medivac Healing Buff/Concussive/Stim/Reapers/Blueflame got nerfed 0.0
Where's the changes to all the Protoss all ins and the complete lack of early aggression in Terran BOs?
The changes are roughly the scope I was hoping for. Especially if the ghost change makes it through. Small tweaks, a little at a time.
I dislike the Ghost change not because it's a buff, but because I dislike how many upgrades are being removed - The game loses a lot of stylistic play by doing that.
Furthermore, I see no nerf/change to Protoss all ins that are soo damn strong and no change to how Terran has no early OR midgame weapons and is forced into the lategame on the backfoot, where the stronger army even get's itself a buff :O
You're referring to the tempest buff? I see tempests in a late game protoss army against me maybe 1/10 games I go to the late game in or less. All ins are slightly nerfed by the nerf to time warp so I guess that's fairly good. I like the ghost change though I see your point about removal of upgrades.
Tempest are the next Go To transition after Collosus/HT and you've established 4 bases - they allow you to determine the location of the engagement as well as constantly deal chip damage to vikings.ghosts/medivacs or expoansions, the latter which will fall A LOT faster now
Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at.
So please tell me i am either stupid or this is already 2 weeks old, but basicly he is saying Protoss is doing bad?
Nah, it was more like "Guys, Protoss are losing like crazy in Proleague, so you see, it's not clear that TvP is impossible to win!". What's funny is that the only Terrans who play in Proleague are the ones who are good enough (read, twice or thrice as good as their opponent) to get some points, and there are only 3 of them.
Of course they are losing like crazy when they make like 50% of Proleague players that actually come out. They will also lose like crazy in Code S because they also make almost 50% of all players there as well. Most of those guys are not Dear, Parting or Rain. Yonghwa did nothing in WoL, now he is Code S and Innovation is Code B. And when he loses to someone like Soulkey, someone will say: hey protoss is doing bad in Code S
a vision range nerf on MSC is mandatory. no way around that. i dont actually like the PO duration nerf, as it is a spell that has really changed pvp for the better.
tempest buff is ridiculous. that unit just sucks for both players and spectators. same with swarm hosts...
i welcome some sort of hydra buff. would be nice to see more variety in zerg compositions. but i think cutting their gas cost in half is too much and will break at least some matchups. why not make them 100/35?
On January 26 2014 05:29 Black Gun wrote: a vision range nerf on MSC is mandatory. no way around that. i dont actually like the PO duration nerf, as it is a spell that has really changed pvp for the better.
tempest buff is ridiculous. that unit just sucks for both players and spectators. same with swarm hosts...
i welcome some sort of hydra buff. would be nice to see more variety in zerg compositions. but i think cutting their gas cost in half is too much and will break at least some matchups. why not make them 100/35?
Vision range is indeed a nice solution for that.
Tempest are really positional and weak when out of position. Swarm Host have a pretty much full time moving shield that regenerates full HP every 25 seconds. On the current map pool it is nigh impossible to abuse the Locust Cooldown because of how the Hosts operate. THAT is the problem.
100/35 won't happen because costs all are divisible by 25. An important thing to keep in mind is that the majority of Hydra cost is up front with 250/250 in upgrades. That is the biggest delay/hurdle for Hydra play.
Innovation vs MC game 5. Wow. Not sure if I should be happy that MC is in another finals, annoyed that Innovation lost to blink, or content that a player I like will win anyway.
On January 27 2014 00:55 The_Templar wrote: Innovation vs MC game 5. Wow. Not sure if I should be happy that MC is in another finals, annoyed that Innovation lost to blink, or content that a player I like will win anyway.
I'm happy that we'll get to see a super high level TvT rather than another boring TvP. Even the best TvPs don't compare with some average high level TvTs.
I'm still a bit frustrated by the state of TvP though. I don't think at this point there's anyway to deny that blink is a problem, most likely due to the mothership core. At least game 1 was pretty cool in that series though.
On January 27 2014 01:03 Bagration wrote: Hero over Taeja? MC over Innovation?
I simply don't quite feel like the better player won....
Didn't see the game, but HerO and Taeja have always traded pretty evenly in their head-to-head, even in an era where the matchup wasn't as favourable to Protoss as it is now
On January 27 2014 01:03 Bagration wrote: Hero over Taeja? MC over Innovation?
I simply don't quite feel like the better player won....
Didn't see the game, but HerO and Taeja have always traded pretty evenly in their head-to-head, even in an era where the matchup wasn't as favourable to Protoss as it is now
AFAIK HerO usually overperforms compared to his current shape vs teammates, and as Hero v Taeja occurs about 4 games every tournament they go to... Really, don't draw into that series.
MC v Inno was the usual MC randomness and chaos and Innovation barely did not hold
On January 27 2014 01:03 Bagration wrote: Hero over Taeja? MC over Innovation?
I simply don't quite feel like the better player won....
Didn't see the game, but HerO and Taeja have always traded pretty evenly in their head-to-head, even in an era where the matchup wasn't as favourable to Protoss as it is now
AFAIK HerO usually overperforms compared to his current shape vs teammates, and as Hero v Taeja occurs about 4 games every tournament they go to... Really, don't draw into that series.
MC v Inno was the usual MC randomness and chaos and Innovation barely did not hold
He held, but then decided that his last 4 marines arent worth keeping T_T
I sometimes go in the HotS Protoss Help me thread just to read how much they don't need "help" in PvT :D Like, just have a look, the only times they talk about PvT, it goes like this: "So I'm pretty good in PvT and I do well using Build A, but wouldn't I rape him harder and faster using a variant of Build B ?" And some blue-poster gosu answers: "Yeah, but you might as well try the triple base Build C Mk.II proxy rush, it's even better. Here are a bunch of replays were Random Protosses D rapes Innovation. Have fun. And don't forget your mothership core."
On January 29 2014 02:27 ZenithM wrote: I sometimes go in the HotS Protoss Help me thread just to read how much they don't need "help" in PvT :D Like, just have a look, the only times they talk about PvT, it goes like this: "So I'm pretty good in PvT and I do well using Build A, but wouldn't I rape him harder and faster using a variant of Build B ?" And some gosu answers: "Yeah, but you might as well try the triple base Build C Mk.II proxy rush, it's even better. Here are a bunch of replays were Random Protoss D rapes Innovation. Have fun. And don't forget your mothership core."
They seem to struggle much more with PvP.
there are a lot of people going over The Templar strategies Also they ask more questions about PvZ
I dont know how you can lose with Templar Openings in lower leagues. By the time I have my fingers sorted , pressed stim and tried to split my army is already dead. I dont know in what league Terrans are able to split decently enough to not just die to 3 storms.
I guess the Templar opening issues apply to Platinum or higher. Meanwhile I die to proxy DTs because I cant find it on damn Alterzim T_T
Thank god we have found our final player for GSL Code S. I may cite Daswollvieh, written 29.01.2014, "I´m sure Paralyze will bring a breath of fresh air to Code S with his unique play-style."
Not that I think everything is peachy today but it has been the other way before.
You cannot really say "haha when the game was new the aggressive race beat the defensive race (that's ALWAYS like that) so it got nerfed and stuff got better but now Protoss deserves to rampage for a year because that is fair.
Whatever way people try to spin it: The fact only 3 terrans participate in Proleague and only 3 made it into Code S is HORRENDOUS and a SHAME on Blizzard and the balance statement they posted 3 weeks prior, and their proposed fixes.
Not that I think everything is peachy today but it has been the other way before.
You cannot really say "haha when the game was new the aggressive race beat the defensive race (that's ALWAYS like that) so it got nerfed and stuff got better but now Protoss deserves to rampage for a year because that is fair.
Whatever way people try to spin it: The fact only 3 terrans participate in Proleague and only 3 made it into Code S is HORRENDOUS and a SHAME on Blizzard and the balance statement they posted 3 weeks prior, and their proposed fixes.
Where did I say that any of that, especially the part where they deserved to rampage. Also people complain about protoss all ins and that terran have no aggressive options so you saying that terran was the aggressive race beating protoss, the defensive race is weird.
Like I said in my original point I don't think what is happening right now is okay and don't think Protoss "deserves to rampage for a year because that is fair".
It wasn't directed at you, sorry I put my sentences very poorly
It's just that those are Protosses favorite quirks to bring up.
Also: Terran USED TO BE the aggressor vs Protoss. And it is normal from a balance POV if the aggresor seems 'OP' for a short while, because the defender needs to figure out how to hold (see, for example, Sentry Immortal All in, 1/1/1 partially, etc.). However, Terran needs to take SO many precautions against Protoss that the builds become highly uneconomical and rely on a blindcounter to work - that is what Terrans are frustrated about and what Blizzard fails to identify/address
On January 29 2014 22:29 NovaMB wrote: Well, they'll have to fix the MSC eventually. Atleast fix its bloody vision range. Its vision is 14, thats larger than a Scan, damnit
Yup and the vision is that way, as i understand it, because of when the MSC was the cannon on the nexus back in beta HOTS. When they changed the ability they just didn't bother to deal with the vision that the MSC originally needed to be the cannon. In other words, its vision is that big because Blizzard is lazy.
On January 29 2014 22:29 NovaMB wrote: Well, they'll have to fix the MSC eventually. Atleast fix its bloody vision range. Its vision is 14, thats larger than a Scan, damnit
Yup and the vision is that way, as i understand it, because of when the MSC was the cannon on the nexus back in beta HOTS. When they changed the ability they just didn't bother to deal with the vision that the MSC originally needed to be the cannon. In other words, its vision is that big because Blizzard is lazy.
Not that I think everything is peachy today but it has been the other way before.
i never said D.kim did a good job, if it was the other way before it just means that he didn't learn anything from his exp in this job (but we all know that, after +-8 months of GGlords&winfestor comp)
Nani can beat Dear, exciting times! HerO is actually up in H2H in sets and matches vs Taeja, but the former is a bit inflated after HerO 4-0ed an out-of-shape Taeja in that Dreamhack final iirc
Those are two Protoss I consider top tier though, I don't want to see whining if either does well haha. The issue has been for me that relatively mediocre Protoss players can go toe-to-toe with the very finest TvPers.
Also the current state of play makes the play of great Protoss players oft indistinguishable from that of ones who aren't which I dislike
On January 30 2014 20:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Nani can beat Dear, exciting times! HerO is actually up in H2H in sets and matches vs Taeja, but the former is a bit inflated after HerO 4-0ed an out-of-shape Taeja in that Dreamhack final iirc
Those are two Protoss I consider top tier though, I don't want to see whining if either does well haha. The issue has been for me that relatively mediocre Protoss players can go toe-to-toe with the very finest TvPers.
Also the current state of play makes the play of great Protoss players oft indistinguishable from that of ones who aren't which I dislike
Yeah i agree. Sometimes i can barely see the difference in the play of a code a player and a high finishing gsl player. Where as with terran you can see that very clearly
On January 30 2014 20:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Nani can beat Dear, exciting times! HerO is actually up in H2H in sets and matches vs Taeja, but the former is a bit inflated after HerO 4-0ed an out-of-shape Taeja in that Dreamhack final iirc
Those are two Protoss I consider top tier though, I don't want to see whining if either does well haha. The issue has been for me that relatively mediocre Protoss players can go toe-to-toe with the very finest TvPers.
Also the current state of play makes the play of great Protoss players oft indistinguishable from that of ones who aren't which I dislike
Yeah i agree. Sometimes i can barely see the difference in the play of a code a player and a high finishing gsl player. Where as with terran you can see that very clearly
Also you can sometimes see it pretty clearly with a zerg player, depending on their play style
On January 30 2014 20:10 SC2Toastie wrote: I fear so badly people are going to point at IEM with Bomber Jjakji Taeja Polt etc beating foreigner toss en zerg and say Terran is fine
Just Bomber, Polt, Jjajkji but they will have to content with herO and MC. That is why I don't like to use international win rates. Sure, TvP win rates look fine when you have so many games where the skill difference is so large that race imbalance doesn't matter. It is better to look at tournaments where skill level is closer, code S/A, PL, Ro8 of WCS NA/ EU and other foreign events.
On January 30 2014 20:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Nani can beat Dear, exciting times! HerO is actually up in H2H in sets and matches vs Taeja, but the former is a bit inflated after HerO 4-0ed an out-of-shape Taeja in that Dreamhack final iirc
Those are two Protoss I consider top tier though, I don't want to see whining if either does well haha. The issue has been for me that relatively mediocre Protoss players can go toe-to-toe with the very finest TvPers.
Also the current state of play makes the play of great Protoss players oft indistinguishable from that of ones who aren't which I dislike
Yeah i agree. Sometimes i can barely see the difference in the play of a code a player and a high finishing gsl player. Where as with terran you can see that very clearly
Also you can sometimes see it pretty clearly with a zerg player, depending on their play style
I think it's just an indication of how well your race does rather than race design. Late 2012 every zerg player ever was in the position to win a GSL and you could barely see why (compared to other zerg players, I mean). And that was also probably the case during GomTvT.
Same story as before, any old foreigner or underdog can upset a terran, but when a terran (like Major, for example) meets a favourite from another race (like HerO, for example), he gets dominated. Now that the very best terrans in Korea are underdogs to a whole lot of Zergs and Protosses, there's really nothing to watch as terran. But, hey, a 10 sec reduction on PO will fix it all
What saddens me the most is that all the current problems of sc2 are easily fixed, and while I do wish theyd change warpgate mechanic into tier 2 or tier 3 for lotv that is not necessary to create a much better game right now.
Lost 3 times in a row to some protoss-1-base agression. The worst thing about that is not that I lost, no it´s that I get matched with terrans right after that when I´m raging! I hate playing TvT, I get mad at Protoss when I lose but I´m even mad(er?) when I have to play a TvT right after that! Although my winrate is like... 75%.
On February 06 2014 08:32 JoeCool wrote: Lost 3 times in a row to some protoss-1-base agression. The worst thing about that is not that I lost, no it´s that I get matched with terrans right after that when I´m raging! I hate playing TvT, I get mad at Protoss when I lose but I´m even mad(er?) when I have to play a TvT right after that! Although my winrate is like... 75%.
TvT is the gentlemen's MU. Learn to love it, it will make you a better man (or woman...).
IEM Asia qualifiers once again didn't have any terrans in the top 42, despite pretty much every good terran playing in the tournament. That follows ASUS and IEM Sao Paulo.
The games also showcased that blink attacks are unchanged.
So, let me understand, they made Muta very strong with the fast healing and fast speed, so they gave T WM to deal with them but Mech and bio tank became shit because they couldnt deal with Mutas, So it made bio mine the only thing viable in TvZ, so in order to make the game more "fun" to watch (because bio mine vs ling bling muta was "boring" =\) instead of making Mech or bio tank viable vs Muta ling, they just nerfed the WM. so now Muta are still strong as hell and bio mine is shit, but bio tank and Mech are shit as well, so now TvZ are more varied. GOOD JOB D.KIM!!! Fuck this game.
my thoughts after watching SuperNova vs Leenok.
User was warned for this post
EDIT: oops, i was sure that it is the right place for balance whine and aggression
On February 07 2014 20:36 c0olL wrote: So, let me understand, they made Muta very strong with the fast healing and fast speed, so they gave T WM to deal with them but Mech and bio tank became shit because they couldnt deal with Mutas, So it made bio mine the only thing viable in TvZ, so in order to make the game more "fun" to watch (because bio mine vs ling bling muta was "boring" =\) instead of making Mech or bio tank viable vs Muta ling, they just nerfed the WM. so now Muta are still strong as hell and bio mine is shit, but bio tank and Mech are shit as well, so now TvZ are more varied. GOOD JOB D.KIM!!! Fuck this game.
my thoughts after watching SuperNova vs Leenok.
User was warned for this post
EDIT: oops, i was sure that it is the right place for balance whine and aggression
You'rre wrong in your ordering: Terrans got the Widow Mine, Zerg got buffs to Mutalisk and Overseer: Biotank and mech suffer. Terran lost the Widow mine, Mutas remain untouched > Biotank, Biomine and Mech suffer
It's quite logical if you put it in that order. Don't get me wrong that mutalisk buff was warranted, however, a revert is warranted as well. However, we know what DK thinks about failed decisions that need reconsideration (Wol Reaper/Hellbat/Muta/Oracle/Swarmhosts, to name a few)
Also, you can dump some Terran frustrations here, it's not the massive qq qq qq thread. It might appear like that after another Protoss defeated a Terran player in some in our opinion dirty way, but it's not supposed to be a massive whine thread. Do that at Reddit :D
The sad zealot thread was bourne out of months of being the weakest race (in regards to tournament results), it had class.
I am afraid I can not take this thread seriously unless terrans continue to do badly for awhile to come, till then it is just another QQ thread there for my amusement.
On February 07 2014 20:36 c0olL wrote: So, let me understand, they made Muta very strong with the fast healing and fast speed, so they gave T WM to deal with them but Mech and bio tank became shit because they couldnt deal with Mutas, So it made bio mine the only thing viable in TvZ, so in order to make the game more "fun" to watch (because bio mine vs ling bling muta was "boring" =\) instead of making Mech or bio tank viable vs Muta ling, they just nerfed the WM. so now Muta are still strong as hell and bio mine is shit, but bio tank and Mech are shit as well, so now TvZ are more varied. GOOD JOB D.KIM!!! Fuck this game.
my thoughts after watching SuperNova vs Leenok.
User was warned for this post
EDIT: oops, i was sure that it is the right place for balance whine and aggression
You'rre wrong in your ordering: Terrans got the Widow Mine, Zerg got buffs to Mutalisk and Overseer: Biotank and mech suffer. Terran lost the Widow mine, Mutas remain untouched > Biotank, Biomine and Mech suffer
It's quite logical if you put it in that order. Don't get me wrong that mutalisk buff was warranted, however, a revert is warranted as well. However, we know what DK thinks about failed decisions that need reconsideration (Wol Reaper/Hellbat/Muta/Oracle/Swarmhosts, to name a few)
Also, you can dump some Terran frustrations here, it's not the massive qq qq qq thread. It might appear like that after another Protoss defeated a Terran player in some in our opinion dirty way, but it's not supposed to be a massive whine thread. Do that at Reddit :D
how can we know what is the true order? WM and Muta buff both came in the beta, didn't they? anyway, its still make me mad that if bio tank and mech suffer so they are not being used, the way for D.kim to put them in the game again is to make bio WM suffer as well. it just feels wrong to see Mech Terranns being outmaneuvered with that Muta speed and regen and to know that they are using it only because bio is so weak now
and i got it now, i will control my frustration next time
OMG I think I just figured how to fix protoss: remove blink it limits the options what protoss can do and makes it some what possible for other races to know what they are going to do.
Other option is to remove protoss, I'm fine with that too.
I didn't really like marus build that just dies to ever so popular oracle builds
I love PartinG, but wow, I really wonder where DK could came up with the idea that the nerf on time warp would make a difference when a lot of people were calling for a nerf on the MSC vision...
On February 09 2014 20:33 Darrkhan wrote: OMG I think I just figured how to fix protoss: remove blink it limits the options what protoss can do and makes it some what possible for other races to know what they are going to do.
Other option is to remove protoss, I'm fine with that too.
I didn't really like marus build that just dies to ever so popular oracle builds
On February 09 2014 20:33 hansonslee wrote: I love PartinG, but wow, I really wonder where DK could came up with the idea that the nerf on time warp would make a difference when a lot of people were calling for a nerf on the MSC vision...
This game was lost by Protoss having an air unit THIS EARLY into the game that requires at least 4 marines to hold of tho.
Just thinking of it, the amount of adaptations Terran has to do in a build 0.0
You NEED 4 marines very early because else MSC trollol.
Ebay ready for 5 minute turrets
Enough funds freed up for 4 Bunkers in case of blink
Really fast Stim in case of another all in
Oh, and if you do all these, make sure not to fall behind on economy and tech, because you have to hurt Protoss at the 10 minute mark because we game is assymetrically balanced 0.0!
On February 09 2014 20:37 SC2Toastie wrote: Just thinking of it, the amount of adaptations Terran has to do in a build 0.0
You NEED 4 marines very early because else MSC trollol.
Ebay ready for 5 minute turrets
Enough funds freed up for 4 Bunkers in case of blink
Really fast Stim in case of another all in
Oh, and if you do all these, make sure not to fall behind on economy and tech, because you have to hurt Protoss at the 10 minute mark because we game is assymetrically balanced 0.0!
Sir , thank you very much for that comment , I never articulated this fact as well as you did.
Timewarp needs to be like 125 energy atleast, or lower MSC energy cap to 150. Also vision lower. PO range maybe down by 1 or 2, but thats not the issue anyway
On February 09 2014 20:41 NovaMB wrote: Timewarp needs to be like 125 energy atleast, or lower MSC energy cap to 150. Also vision lower. PO range maybe down by 1 or 2, but thats not the issue anyway
Select mothership, Ctrl A + Delete. Fuck that unit. It's a disgrace to the game.
On February 09 2014 20:41 NovaMB wrote: Timewarp needs to be like 125 energy atleast, or lower MSC energy cap to 150. Also vision lower. PO range maybe down by 1 or 2, but thats not the issue anyway
Select mothership, Ctrl A + Delete. Fuck that unit. It's a disgrace to the game.
But what is Protoss going to do in the early game then?
you know , this whole TvP shit reminds of me of good old Ud vs Orc in wc3.....the only difference is that it took UD players 10 years to figure out the Tier 2 Banshee Push ( TeD fighting !!!! ) , in Terran's case....I don't see this ever getting figured out , and I would love to be wrong about this and eat my words.
I may play Protoss, but I can assure you guy I never blink-stalker "all-in" like that. I think it's an absolute joke that this game has been out for this long and shit like this is still happening. I wish blizzard gave a shit about the game, it actually makes me a little bit depressed to see. The MSC is the most poorly designed unit in competative RTS history and protoss feels dirty to play .
On February 09 2014 20:41 NovaMB wrote: Timewarp needs to be like 125 energy atleast, or lower MSC energy cap to 150. Also vision lower. PO range maybe down by 1 or 2, but thats not the issue anyway
Select mothership, Ctrl A + Delete. Fuck that unit. It's a disgrace to the game.
But what is Protoss going to do in the early game then?
This is what we are currently thinking: "We are looking in to it, we do not have much stats and data.. Most of the recent changes that went completely off what we expected them to be, are still going to stay. For example the oracle as a skillful harass unit, actually ended up just pretty much a guaranteed damage for the protoss. The defensive MSC is used for all ins and also can harass Terran with no anti air. There is no problems with the game, it is almost balanced. We dont want to change anything mid-patch, definitely not any of the things that we changed and blew up in our faces.. Because you can see, that even the most OP units, get countered by time, and get used less. So just because a unit is stupidly easy to use, with time, it will be better. Because you will be used to it, and will know how to react. Your reaction should be: "Fuck, I am dead again!""
On February 09 2014 20:37 SC2Toastie wrote: Just thinking of it, the amount of adaptations Terran has to do in a build 0.0
You NEED 4 marines very early because else MSC trollol.
Ebay ready for 5 minute turrets
Enough funds freed up for 4 Bunkers in case of blink
Really fast Stim in case of another all in
Oh, and if you do all these, make sure not to fall behind on economy and tech, because you have to hurt Protoss at the 10 minute mark because we game is assymetrically balanced 0.0!
your words are pure gold! and dont forget: must build turrets before leaving base. must do early push to bait MSC energy or the later bigger push will be stopped easily with almost no units
What if MSC timewarp also slowed own units? wouldn't help much when dealing against blink but would make msc maybe less relevant later stages cos it would mess up charge zealots.
On February 10 2014 06:30 Darrkhan wrote: What if MSC timewarp also slowed own units? wouldn't help much when dealing against blink but would make msc maybe less relevant later stages cos it would mess up charge zealots.
Just give it to mothership as well as mass recall (WoL). This is so you can have mass recall in one of two ways (either bring all your units to the mothership or transport some units home), Time Warp isn't an issue in the early game, and there's more incentive to build motherships.
Solid terran performance in today's round 1 SPL playoff finals. Our winrates against the two other races were quite even. I guess terran isnt so bad after all.
On February 11 2014 20:24 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Solid terran performance in today's round 1 SPL playoff finals. Our winrates against the two other races were quite even.
On February 11 2014 20:24 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Solid terran performance in today's round 1 SPL playoff finals. Our winrates against the two other races were quite even.
On February 11 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote: Amount of Tosses fielded: 132 Amount of Zergs fielded: 84
Amount of Terrans fielded: 46
Balance.
Proleague coaches just know what's up.
I'm suprised pros haven't complained about the double PO protoss can do when faced with aggression. It completely slaps the attack down, barring the buildings you can shoot at from outside the range but even that can be fixed by clever building placement.
On February 11 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote: Amount of Tosses fielded: 132 Amount of Zergs fielded: 84
Amount of Terrans fielded: 46
Balance.
Proleague coaches just know what's up.
I'm suprised pros haven't complained about the double PO protoss can do when faced with aggression. It completely slaps the attack down, barring the buildings you can shoot at from outside the range but even that can be fixed by clever building placement.
On February 11 2014 20:24 gingerfluffmuff wrote: Solid terran performance in today's round 1 SPL playoff finals. Our winrates against the two other races were quite even.
Polt innovating TvP Blink All ins; Classic v Polt @ IEM Cologne Game 4 (Yeonsu)
Hide your first group of MM, when Protoss moves to your base to attack, move your ~10 marine/marauder into his mineral line and overmake bunkers at home.
All it takes is making your opponent chat to you when you got a marine drop in both mineral lines and have him attack a bunker repaired by all your scvs xD
Blink all-in fail? EZPZ, just take fast 3rd and you are ahead, if T try to punish they lose. playing vs better player? EZPZ, just storm drop his mineral line and he has 2 sec before losing 20 SCVs. your enemy has 38 army supply and you are rushing tech? EZPZ, 2 sentries and 1 PO and he cant touch you.
sadly, im really starting to lose my passion for Sc2
E: Yeah this is fucking stupid no terran can win against protoss these day fuck this game in order to make game balanced they should add marines to shoot nuclear missiles then the game would be somewhat balanced.
On February 21 2014 21:22 Saumure wrote: First time I see such an organized whining (on the internet). There were a lot of GSL with many terrans, so get over it... Or remember that time were the terrans from slayers came up with that helion build and won an entire tournament?
On February 21 2014 21:22 Saumure wrote: First time I see such an organized whining (on the internet). There were a lot of GSL with many terrans, so get over it... Or remember that time were the terrans from slayers came up with that helion build and won an entire tournament?
Oh dammit, yes, We hate people innovating the game. Fuck them!
On February 21 2014 21:22 Saumure wrote: First time I see such an organized whining (on the internet). There were a lot of GSL with many terrans, so get over it... Or remember that time were the terrans from slayers came up with that helion build and won an entire tournament?
Oh dammit, yes, We hate people innovating the game. Fuck them!
Though I disagree with what ForGG said, by the way. All comes down to Forcefield/MSC/Warp-in being stupid mechanics and P having way to many options vs T :-P
The balance team will carefully wait and see if the meta develops for the next six months before making any changes while protoss reap all the prize money.
The thing that bothers me the most is that terran has been always nerfed almost instantaneously compared to the other races; the snipe nerf was implemented after one series in 2011. Not to say it was not imba, but they just killed snipe against zerg overnight without thinking a bit longer about alternatives. Then you see them pondering on bl/infestor for six months when even zergs scream at them to fix that shit, ugh.
A better map pool could also help a ton in killing the potency of blink all-ins, but this would kill the creativity that is already limited in the maps that are made nowadays.
feels good to get this off my chest, anyone agree?
On March 16 2014 18:52 herMan wrote: The balance team will carefully wait and see if the meta develops for the next six months before making any changes while protoss reap all the prize money.
The thing that bothers me the most is that terran has been always nerfed almost instantaneously compared to the other races; the snipe nerf was implemented after one series in 2011. Not to say it was not imba, but they just killed snipe against zerg overnight without thinking a bit longer about alternatives. Then you see them pondering on bl/infestor for six months when even zergs scream at them to fix that shit, ugh.
A better map pool could also help a ton in killing the potency of blink all-ins, but this would kill the creativity that is already limited in the maps that are made nowadays.
feels good to get this off my chest, anyone agree?
On March 16 2014 22:19 Topin wrote: dont forget about Thors(TFunk) and blue flame(SlayerS Terrans)
Wasn't blue flame strong because of shitty maps such as dual sight?
SlayerS Terrans created a blueflame build, using Blueflame to two-shot workers. They completely ramsacked a tournament with it (IIRC it was an MLG). Almost instantly after that tournament, it was nerfed. Zergs were already adjusting to it.
Well i played cheese all season vs toss (95% of the games) and here is the result.
45 % for cheese mostly,i think thats not too bad at all.Last season my T v P was around 32 %. Cheeses used: Trappist - 11/11 proxy 2 rax in enemy base with bunkers and scv pull Gouda - proxy factory Thor rush with scvs to repair
I think the other one worked better.Toss players got either really mad or said ''holly shit what is that build? gg''.
I would never have believed it if someone told me two years ago that there would only be 4 terrans in code S. Hopefully blizzard can fix this, until then I'm mad, because when the game isn't balanced the community becomes incredibly toxic. Hopefully it gets better.
Just a little bump after visiting the Balance Thread to say that I'm very satisfied with the balance right now. Terran seems overpowered, which is where it should be ;D
Edit: I wanted to gloat publicly on the Balance Thread, but that would just have been mean, so I prefer to do it in secret here with my fellow Terrans :D
EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.com/a/img560/5291/c6hr.gif)
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what sorcery is this !!!! 
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