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NesTea Fan Club - Page 57
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
 NesTea is THE sick nerd baller.Sign me up  | ||
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NuclearWINtr
United States125 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
TvZ is the most balanced (non-mirror) match-up. It is just MVP who is OP in a TvZ non-BO1. There really is no shame in losing to him; DRG, who has a better ZvT than NesTea, is fucking terrified of MVP, which just goes to show how scary MVP's TvZ is. | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:47 babylon wrote: TvZ is the most balanced (non-mirror) match-up. It is just MVP who is OP in a TvZ non-BO1. There really is no shame in losing to him; DRG, who has a better ZvT than NesTea, is fucking terrified of MVP, which just goes to show how scary MVP's TvZ is. The drg games were more one-sided than the nestea games IMO. At least nestea got a 4th mining base and had some map presence vs MVP. Drg is too counter attack reliant and MVP always has bunker + sim city defense. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:59 Micket wrote: The drg games were more one-sided than the nestea games IMO. At least nestea got a 4th mining base and had some map presence vs MVP. Drg is too counter attack reliant and MVP always has bunker + sim city defense. Yes, and in part, I think that's due to a clash of styles. DRG's style fits MMA more - they both play heavy harass-based, counter-attack styles reliant on high-level multitasking - while NesTea's fits MVP's, since they're both macro machines. That's why you get closer games with DRG vs. MMA and NesTea vs. MVP than with DRG vs. MVP (lol, macrostomp) or NesTea vs. MMA (lol, drops everywhere). | ||
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perfectchaoss
United States30 Posts
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Antimatterz
United States1010 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
On August 25 2011 05:13 babylon wrote: Yes, and in part, I think that's due to a clash of styles. DRG's style fits MMA more - they both play heavy harass-based, counter-attack styles reliant on high-level multitasking - while NesTea's fits MVP's, since they're both macro machines. That's why you get closer games with DRG vs. MMA and NesTea vs. MVP than with DRG vs. MVP (lol, macrostomp) or NesTea vs. MMA (lol, drops everywhere). I still don't think that game vs MMA was too indicative of much. He lost to the Slayers drop when he lost tons of drones. When you see Terran pull ahead in supply before 10 minutes into the game when Zerg is making roaches, you know Zerg is basically dead. The drops were just nails in the coffin, making sure Nestea couldn't burrowed baneling or base race his way out of a loss with his 9000 IQ. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:45 Micket wrote: I still don't think that game vs MMA was too indicative of much. He lost to the Slayers drop when he lost tons of drones. When you see Terran pull ahead in supply before 10 minutes into the game when Zerg is making roaches, you know Zerg is basically dead. The drops were just nails in the coffin, making sure Nestea couldn't burrowed baneling or base race his way out of a loss with his 9000 IQ. It was hardly a SlayerS drop. More like a simple BFH run-by at his third, IIRC. (I assume by "SlayerS drop," you're referring to the BFH elevator build they showcased at MLG.) NesTea actually held that off the initial aggression without losing much at all. What happened, though, was he made the wrong choice to go roaches. He had to have known that MMA would use the elevator build, but he overmade roaches (expected mass BFH when MMA went for marine/tank), delayed his mutas, and let MMA kill those drones at the third, which just allowed MMA to get more and more ahead once the drops started to come out. He got outplayed and outmetagamed by MMA. I would even like to say outmultitasked, but that's hard to prove, and I don't care to argue it. Against MVP, NesTea somehow got outmacroed and outplayed. It was like watching MVP vs. DRG again; NesTea would kill MVP's army, but then MVP's second army would come in and clean things up. I mean, if there's one thing you can say about MVP, it's that his ability to consistently outmacro Zergs is pretty impressive. Okay, that's enough about that. If there's one thing for sure, it's that NesTea's going to have to improve his ZvT by leaps and bounds if he wants to get another championship. There are so many TvZ monsters out there (MVP, MMA, Ryung, TOP, maybe MKP if he gets back in form and back into Code S, and sC though he's languishing in Code A and probably in the hospital now) and so few reliable ZvT players (DRG, Leenock on a good day, NesTea when his baneling mines work ... DRG?). Meh. | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:14 babylon wrote: It was hardly a SlayerS drop. More like a simple BFH run-by at his third, IIRC. (I assume by "SlayerS drop," you're referring to the BFH elevator build they showcased at MLG.) NesTea actually held that off the initial aggression without losing much at all. What happened, though, was he made the wrong choice to go roaches. He had to have known that MMA would use the elevator build, but he overmade roaches (expected mass BFH when MMA went for marine/tank), delayed his mutas, and let MMA kill those drones at the third, which just allowed MMA to get more and more ahead once the drops started to come out. He got outplayed and outmetagamed by MMA. I would even like to say outmultitasked, but that's hard to prove, and I don't care to argue it. Against MVP, NesTea somehow got outmacroed and outplayed. It was like watching MVP vs. DRG again; NesTea would kill MVP's army, but then MVP's second army would come in and clean things up. I mean, if there's one thing you can say about MVP, it's that his ability to consistently outmacro Zergs is pretty impressive. Okay, that's enough about that. If there's one thing for sure, it's that NesTea's going to have to improve his ZvT by leaps and bounds if he wants to get another championship. There are so many TvZ monsters out there (MVP, MMA, Ryung, TOP, maybe MKP if he gets back in form and back into Code S, and sC though he's languishing in Code A and probably in the hospital now) and so few reliable ZvT players (DRG, Leenock on a good day, NesTea when his baneling mines work ... DRG?). Meh. It seems to me usually zerg players have a much easier time outmacroing terrans, but MVP was good at containing nestea from expanding too much and I guess his resources were depleting too fast.. to be honest though I think DRG has a better chance of being better ZvT than NesTea, because his multitasking ability is insane and he just needs to adjust how he handles his economy. And while MVP is pretty good against zergs, I feel that his style has a weakness, it's really non-mobile and can probably be abused by drops and using the zerg's mobility in general. | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:26 dgwow wrote: It seems to me usually zerg players have a much easier time outmacroing terrans, but MVP was good at containing nestea from expanding too much and I guess his resources were depleting too fast.. to be honest though I think DRG has a better chance of being better ZvT than NesTea, because his multitasking ability is insane and he just needs to adjust how he handles his economy. And while MVP is pretty good against zergs, I feel that his style has a weakness, it's really non-mobile and can probably be abused by drops and using the zerg's mobility in general. Have you seen MVP lose an addon to mutas? No, mutas do nothing against him. He is producing 10 marines at a time and never skipping a beat on macro, he is invulnerable to counter attacks. Drg failed every single counterattack vs MVP, his style is the most solid out of any Terran. | ||
Zombie_Velociraptor
274 Posts
Think it was mostly a wrong read / reaction, although obviously we'll never know what goes on in player's minds when they are in the middle of a game. Game 2, was just stupid. As much as I want to hate on Terran for being op and imba for doing that, and on the map for being bad, it was a really dumb mistake on NesTea's part. Overall, I sort of feel like NesTea underestimated both MVP and MMA a little bit. In a lot of his games, he gets away with heavy droning due to mistakes on the opponent's part and because they are afraid of him (his series vs Bomber in the super tournament and his finals vs Losira come to mind on the latter). As a result, refined strategies aimed specifically at his playstyle executed as confidently and expertly as MVP and MMA are capable of really sting. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:33 Micket wrote: Have you seen MVP lose an addon to mutas? No, mutas do nothing against him. He is producing 10 marines at a time and never skipping a beat on macro, he is invulnerable to counter attacks. Drg failed every single counterattack vs MVP, his style is the most solid out of any Terran. Agreed. MVP's defense is actually remarkable. (Though I think he did lose a reactor to NesTea's muta harass in G1 before MVP drove him out with a shit-ton of marines that were just waiting in front of the base.) His simcity is amazing and denies most run-bys, and even if some lings get in, they're usually cleaned up by the aforementioned army chilling in his base. He just has a lot of shit and an iron-clad defense, which is what sets him apart in TvZ from someone like, say, TOP or Bomber. Those two both have just as impressive macro but typically fall short on the defense (and decision-making, arghhhhh, Bomber, why do you do stupid shit all the time?). MMA is ... well, MMA. Death by a thousand cuts, and all that; his style is flashy and impressive, but it's nowhere near as stable as MVP's. | ||
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Morphling_
87 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:47 babylon wrote: TvZ is the most balanced (non-mirror) match-up. The statistics would disagree with you. In the GSL, Zerg hasn't had a winning record against terran in a single month since November. NOVEMBER. | ||
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NuclearWINtr
United States125 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:35 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: NesTea overmade Roaches in his game1 vs MVP, and then didn't really do anything with them. He could have committed a little more to making army and did some damage there before MVP had too many tanks out, or alternatively he shouldn't have made so many combat units there; he ended up having a bunch of minerals & supply just sitting around doing absolutely nothing while MVP went ahead and took his fourth absolutely uncontested. Think it was mostly a wrong read / reaction, although obviously we'll never know what goes on in player's minds when they are in the middle of a game. Game 2, was just stupid. As much as I want to hate on Terran for being op and imba for doing that, and on the map for being bad, it was a really dumb mistake on NesTea's part. Overall, I sort of feel like NesTea underestimated both MVP and MMA a little bit. In a lot of his games, he gets away with heavy droning due to mistakes on the opponent's part and because they are afraid of him (his series vs Bomber in the super tournament and his finals vs Losira come to mind on the latter). As a result, refined strategies aimed specifically at his playstyle executed as confidently and expertly as MVP and MMA are capable of really sting. This. If anything lost him game 1 it's this. MVP got really greedy with that 4th and had only 3 tanks and a small marine pack protecting it. Nestea was up 30 supply and had a sizable force in the middle of the map with bane speed and he hesitated for too long so MVP was allowed to fortify his position :/. He could have taken out that force, denied MVP's 4th and secured his own. May have even won the game with that. I must say, as hard as I was rooting for nestea, he just disappointed. That was not his A game. Didn't seem to spread out his overlords, didn't utilize his flanks like he normally does, and I think he forgot burrow as well what with the banes just sitting out in plain sight doing nothing. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:55 Morphling_ wrote: The statistics would disagree with you. In the GSL, Zerg hasn't had a winning record against terran in a single month since November. NOVEMBER. But the only other two relevant match-ups are PvZ and TvP, and we all know the state of those match-ups nowadays.  As I said, I think part of the problem is that there are just not that many Zergs who are good at ZvT. You have ZvP monsters (NesTea, Losira, CoCa) and ZvZ monsters (NesTea, Losira, viOlet, Zenio), but our only really solid ZvT players (DRG, Leenock) had been stuck in Code B for the longest time ever. And on top of that, those ZvT players are both weak in a match-up (primarily ZvP) that has kept them out of the GSL for a depressingly long time. It seems to be a trend or something; even back when FruitDealer was the best ZvTer out there, he was absolutely horrible in ZvP for some reason. I do think that NesTea psyched himself out against MVP. He was horribly indecisive with his units and wouldn't commit in quite a few engagements. I really do wonder how much MVP wins in practice to make NesTea so nervous. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:47 babylon wrote: TvZ is the most balanced (non-mirror) match-up. It is just MVP who is OP in a TvZ non-BO1. There really is no shame in losing to him; DRG, who has a better ZvT than NesTea, is fucking terrified of MVP, which just goes to show how scary MVP's TvZ is. MVP's good, but TvZ is like 60% favored, hardly balanced. The closest is ZvP right now. | ||
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Joey Wheeler
Korea (North)276 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:47 babylon wrote: TvZ is the most balanced (non-mirror) match-up. It is just MVP who is OP in a TvZ non-BO1. There really is no shame in losing to him; DRG, who has a better ZvT than NesTea, is fucking terrified of MVP, which just goes to show how scary MVP's TvZ is. Oh please, compare MVP's winrate with Nestea's. While MVP is at 70%, Nestea is 90% in ZvZ and ZvP , his winrate in ZvT is only 58%. That's a lot more different than MVP's who's winrates in each matchup is relatively balanced. There's no denying Nestea is the better player, but in reality MVP has perfected marine/tank and Zerg still has no answer for it. | ||
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