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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
Gracken spotted. If you guys have any pictures or videos I'd really appreciate it if you sent me a link with it through PMs so I can add it to the next GrackenNews. I haven't had the time to dig through and find the content between like november and mid january, so a lot of content is lacking there. Gonna make sure to publish the next edition as soon as I have enough content, so please help out if you can | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:41 Fizzy wrote: Ofcourse he stayed in the US, WCS will mean more easy money for players who are worse than koreans. Why would any1 want to practise to become better than them when its more profitable to relax and take the easy NA money. ya why does idra want money? he should move to Korea and live in a cardboard box and spend all day in PC bangs | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
I'd rather see them make the point system global and have GSL give the most points, (winning 1 GSL would give about the same points as winning 1MLG + 1DH, or something). And then take the top 32 or so to the global finals and pay them all handsomely. This would make GSL more appealing to foreigners, it would also reward players who got to alot of foreign events, but they would still have to practise hard enough to beat the best players in order to succeed. With the current implementation of WCS it will reduce the competition in alot of tournaments and we wont have any foreigner upsets in GSL (unless some foreigner is cool enough to chose quality over money and take korea as their WCS region). Blizzard is building the esports-scene to a stage where its not up for the pros to want to be the best, but rather for them to avoid hard competition to earn easy points. -- In a perfect world blizzard would not pay out pricemoney for WCS, but instead a steady salery each month for a season (and have a year split into 4 seasons (or 3 seasons this year), to the top 16 or 32 players in the world, and have them fly to different events and compete. This would give foreigners enough reason to practise to become top 32 in order for foreigners to actually become better or on-par with koreans... rather than pay foreigners money for avoiding koreans. Edit: If WCS money was distributed equally between all players in the form of salery it would mean: If WCS had 16 players: 100.000$/year = 8333.33$/month, which is a great salery, better than alot of jobs. If WCS had 32 players: 50.000$year = 4166,67$month, which is a good salery, not on par with very well payd jobs such as lawyers and doctors, but still good. Now you ask: Why would people want to practise to become the best in order to win? Very Simple, have the top x spots yield a safe spot for the next season of WCS. And also, sponsors might be a lot more interested in a player who won the WCS, rather than a player who lost all matches 0-3 or 0-4 and placed in 32th place. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:52 Fizzy wrote: Im not saying its a bad decision by idra, im saying its a bad implementation of WCS2013 by blizzard. I'd rather see them make the point system global and have GSL give the most points, (winning 1 GSL would give about the same points as winning 1MLG + 1DH, or something). And then take the top 32 or so to the global finals and pay them all handsomely. This would make GSL more appealing to foreigners, it would also reward players who got to alot of foreign events, but they would still have to practise hard enough to beat the best players in order to succeed. With the current implementation of WCS it will reduce the competition in alot of tournaments and we wont have any foreigner upsets in GSL (unless some foreigner is cool enough to chose quality over money and take korea as their WCS region). Blizzard is building the esports-scene to a stage where its not up for the pros to want to be the best, but rather for them to avoid hard competition to earn easy points. -- In a perfect world blizzard would not pay out pricemoney for WCS, but instead a steady salery each month for a season (and have a year split into 4 seasons (or 3 seasons this year), to the top 16 or 32 players in the world, and have them fly to different events and compete. This would give foreigners enough reason to practise to become top 32 in order for foreigners to actually become better or on-par with koreans... rather than pay foreigners money for avoiding koreans. it does not make foreigner not want to succeed it gives them more chances to, Foriegners are more likely to practice hard if they actually know theres a tournament that doesnt ahve the top tier Koreans it gives everyone a chance to get money so more people are willing to go pro and try to be the best | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:56 Forikorder wrote: it does not make foreigner not want to succeed it gives them more chances to, Foriegners are more likely to practice hard if they actually know theres a tournament that doesnt ahve the top tier Koreans it gives everyone a chance to get money so more people are willing to go pro and try to be the best But that is the entire problem, where the hell is the sport or business that made people earn alot of money by not being the best? A swedish soccer player can earn a salery from playing soccer, but he does not earn near as much as a player who goes to england or italy or spain in order to play with the best and become better. However, in SC2 a foreigner who is several leagues below the top tier koreans can earn just as much money as them.. and they dont have to set foot outside of their online cups including a lan event once or twice a year (where they dont even place top 32). And this is what i think is wrong, people who are better are getting payed less.... people who are working harder are getting less recognition. Whilst some player was lucky enough to be born in a community where no1 cares about how good you are but instead only that you are not korean. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On April 04 2013 02:02 Fizzy wrote: But that is the entire problem, where the hell is the sport or business that made people earn alot of money by not being the best? A swedish soccer player can earn a salery from playing soccer, but he does not earn near as much as a player who goes to england or italy or spain in order to play with the best and become better. However, in SC2 a foreigner who is several leagues below the top tier koreans can earn just as much money as them.. and they dont have to set foot outside of their online cups including a lan event once or twice a year (where they dont even place top 32). And this is what i think is wrong, people who are better are getting payed less.... people who are working harder are getting less recognition. Whilst some player was lucky enough to be born in a community where no1 cares about how good you are but instead only that you are not korean. your just so completely wrong that its hard to figure out how to get through to you http://www.sc2earnings.com/ 13 of the top 14 names are ALL Korean and the only non-Korean is Stephano crappy foreigners are not making more money then Koreans because the Koreans are flying to NA and EU tournaments and sweeping them all WCS does is give people a chance to watch the people in there country play and find who is the best and gives lesser known players an actual chance to break out the WCS format is perfect | ||
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Vertigro
United Kingdom261 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:52 Fizzy wrote: Im not saying its a bad decision by idra, im saying its a bad implementation of WCS2013 by blizzard. I'd rather see them make the point system global and have GSL give the most points, (winning 1 GSL would give about the same points as winning 1MLG + 1DH, or something). And then take the top 32 or so to the global finals and pay them all handsomely. This would make GSL more appealing to foreigners, it would also reward players who got to alot of foreign events, but they would still have to practise hard enough to beat the best players in order to succeed. Problem is, regardless of GSL being the pinnacle of prestige within sc2, putting a heavier value in terms of points in a competition that forces foreigners to commit to long periods in a foreign country isn't exactly ideal! Ofc, if you want to play and beat the best, GSL is the proving ground, no one will debate that im sure, but the point of WCS is that Europe and NA have their own goals and things to aim for. If people enjoy watching, and foreign pros are happy to do it, what's the problem? I enjoy the GSL but I like the idea of a more dispersed, global tournament... at the end of the day, if foreign players ease up as a result, Koreans are just going to kill them as always in the finals  | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
On April 04 2013 02:16 Forikorder wrote: your just so completely wrong that its hard to figure out how to get through to you http://www.sc2earnings.com/ 13 of the top 14 names are ALL Korean and the only non-Korean is Stephano crappy foreigners are not making more money then Koreans because the Koreans are flying to NA and EU tournaments and sweeping them all WCS does is give people a chance to watch the people in there country play and find who is the best and gives lesser known players an actual chance to break out the WCS format is perfect First of all, nothing if perfect, and if we all were drones such as yourself, we would not have innovation or buisness competition. SC2 earnings show money earned from prizemoney, and ofcourse the top koreans earn more than the top foreigners. But what im getting at is that a player such as Machine or Catz whom are not even in top 100 in the world. Are earning more money (prizemoney + salery) than B-team koreans who are alot better. And if you check the top 100 earnings for 2012 you can see that players SortOf has earned more money than Gumiho (in terms of prizemoney). Squirle earned less than mana and nericho, so did great players such as Bomber, MMA and Hyun. And that is because sortof, mana and nericho attend ALOT of small online tournaments in europe that reward 60-120$ and has no koreans. Whilst Squirle, MMA, Hyun and Gumiho attend GSL and most of them are regulars in Code S (perhaps not MMA anymore), but they dont have any easy tournaments with easy money. On April 04 2013 02:18 Vertigro wrote: Problem is, regardless of GSL being the pinnacle of prestige within sc2, putting a heavier value in terms of points in a competition that forces foreigners to commit to long periods in a foreign country isn't exactly ideal! Ofc, if you want to play and beat the best, GSL is the proving ground, no one will debate that im sure, but the point of WCS is that Europe and NA have their own goals and things to aim for. If people enjoy watching, and foreign pros are happy to do it, what's the problem? I enjoy the GSL but I like the idea of a more dispersed, global tournament... at the end of the day, if foreign players ease up as a result, Koreans are just going to kill them as always in the finals Sure it would not be fair for foreigners to have to commit to long peroids in a foreign country in order to be able to compete where the most points are. But it is fair that the tournaments with the best competition and players should have the highest reward. (One can also argue that the world is not fair). Is it fair that a korean who plays 10 hours a day 6 days a week will not be able to earn as much money as a foreigner who spends 6 hours streaming (where he makes money), 2 hours practising and 2 hours chatting with fans. For 3-4 days per week. Nony is a great example of a player who did very little (during 2012) but still got payed more than hardcore koreans. Nony forfeited spots in tournaments because "he was unable to schedule due to personal reason". Whilst there are other players who would have given their hearts, souls and 10 hours per day just to be given the chance to play in that tournament with his salery. And im afraid that just as you are saying, this will just end up in Koreans just destroying foreigners even harder, where'as in a sport the athletes pratcise to beat the odds and overcome tougher competition. In SC2 we obviously want our atheletes to avoid competition and only play against people of their own skill-level in order to make for more fair matches. However i am afraid that SC2 esports (perhaps esports in general) is growing towards being more of a media/publicity oriented genre than a sport. Atleast thats where we are going now, esports is barely definable as a sport but rather as a race for viewership and publicty. Sure - sports are very dependable around publicity and viewership, but the difference is that you would never see a "bad" player play in arsenals first lineup just because he has alot of fans. You wouldnt see some NFL team picking up a bad player "because he has good carisma" over a player who is very good at American Football. And i just notice that i've been rambling on for quite awhile, but im just too passionate around this subject... if you want to discuss this further please contact me via PM  | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5225 Posts
On April 04 2013 03:21 Fizzy wrote: You wouldnt see some NFL team picking up a bad player "because he has good carisma" over a player who is very good at American Football. And i just notice that i've been rambling on for quite awhile, but im just too passionate around this subject... if you want to discuss this further please contact me via PM Do you know who Tim Tebow is? | ||
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Fake)Plants
United States373 Posts
:D This is great though, seriously, it exists across the board. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 04 2013 03:21 Fizzy wrote: However i am afraid that SC2 esports (perhaps esports in general) is growing towards being more of a media/publicity oriented genre than a sport. Atleast thats where we are going now, esports is barely definable as a sport but rather as a race for viewership and publicty. Sure - sports are very dependable around publicity and viewership, but the difference is that you would never see a "bad" player play in arsenals first lineup just because he has alot of fans. You wouldnt see some NFL team picking up a bad player "because he has good carisma" over a player who is very good at American Football. SC2 Esports is "growing" into whatever it takes to sustain the industry. In every other professional sport you can name, a team or a country alone will draw in the attention. For almost every SC2 team in existence, it's 100% the players that are creating every bit of exposure. The ideal you're asking for simply cannot exist until SC2 can get millions of concurrent viewers consistently, and teams can get enough revenue without relying on specific players. EDIT: A better analogy than Football would by the Olympics. Most athletes there have to work full time and pay for their training from their own pockets. Only the biggest winners or the most marketable people get sponsorship money, and even then only if their sport is one of the more popular ones. And at the end, which countries usually win the most events? The ones that pump the most money into their athletes. In other words, if you want your country's players to be the best, the money has to be there first. People always talk about this dream ideal about living on scraps until you work hard and earn your way to the top...but more often than not Champions in any field will have a long trail of training support, infrastructure and money behind them (even if it's not in direct salary). | ||
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Fortii
Germany760 Posts
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On April 07 2013 00:07 Fortii wrote: does anyone know where idra went? some sort of short holiday or something else? possibly visiting his gf? Either way, he should be back to streaming tonight | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
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ConGee
318 Posts
On April 04 2013 14:18 Fake)Plants wrote: :D This is great though, seriously, it exists across the board. Also, have you heard of Jeremy Lin in the NBA? (Not to say he's not a good player, but the fact that he's being paid far more than he's actually worth because he makes the team much more marketable to Asians.) It's not a new concept in sports, it's just that without the massive financial banking that the NBA, MLB, and NFL have. It makes much more business sense to have marketable players. | ||
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AidoS
71 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On April 07 2013 19:45 AidoS wrote: are the vods on gregs twitch channel still disabled or is the new twitch just too confusing for me to find them?! If I recall correctly, he disabled VODs from his stream so that fellow competitors wouldn't be able to study them. So you have to watch the streams live. ^^ | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On April 07 2013 20:05 Incognoto wrote: If I recall correctly, he disabled VODs from his stream so that fellow competitors wouldn't be able to study them. So you have to watch the streams live. ^^ That probably doesn't work out too well for you Europeans does it?  | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On April 07 2013 21:45 Chewbacca. wrote: That probably doesn't work out too well for you Europeans does it? YOLO GREGGORS' STREAM INTO THE NIGHT ALL DAY ERRY DAY | ||
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