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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban.
Rastasham
Profile Joined October 2011
Thailand27 Posts
December 04 2011 11:47 GMT
#30781
Idra is just an overrated player.

User was warned for this post
nazR
Profile Joined May 2011
France158 Posts
December 04 2011 11:50 GMT
#30782
On December 04 2011 20:47 Rastasham wrote:
Idra is just an overrated player.


:D

Probably not the right place, get ready to be thrown out of the window
CptObv1ous
Profile Joined March 2011
Luxembourg90 Posts
December 04 2011 11:51 GMT
#30783
On December 04 2011 20:47 Rastasham wrote:
Idra is just an overrated player.

I hope you enjoyed your stay at teamliquid.net, it´s not gonna last much longer I´m afraid.

On topic, while the puma series was certainly a bummer, at least we have an awesome strelok series to look back at and the korea trip coming up right after nasl, so I´m pumped for the gracken!
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-04 12:19:37
December 04 2011 12:13 GMT
#30784
WCG is a place to earn a spot for the blizzard cup
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
nanospartan
Profile Joined July 2011
649 Posts
December 04 2011 12:54 GMT
#30785
On December 04 2011 15:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:
People aren't giving Puma any credit whatsoever. He metagamed Idra hard, and no, that doesn't mean "went for all-ins before Mutas popped" like so many people pretend it does.

Contrary to popular belief, Idra has extremely strong early game defence. The reason he can bank 800/800 to pop 7 Mutalisks and Air Upgrades in one go is because of his Hellion defence, and extremely strong ling/bling control that can fend off the inevitable Marine/Tank timing pushes that follows, without investing heavily in static defence or over-committal to T1 units..

The reason Puma crushed him so easily was because he went for two specifically timed attacks designed to hit before Mutas were available, while prioritizing a strong economy to match Idras. The first game, he specifically went Siege Tech first so that he could push long before the Spire finished, unlike most Terrans who go for Marine upgrades first and end up dealing with Ling/Bling/Muta. This forced Idra to use his banked resources on Lings and Banelings, and he couldn't get any Mutas to snipe of tanks and Hellions.

Second game, too many people are harping on the Hellion/Marauder timing. The real issue was that Puma went CC first, which meant the push wasn't all-in in the slightest. Idra held it off, while taking moderate damage, but Puma's economy was 1.5x ahead on SCVs alone, not even counting Mules. If it had been any other player doing an ordinary Hellion/Marauder push, it would have been held, and they would have been on equal economic footing. Puma macroed first, and attacked second.

Third game was brilliant mind games, because he went for a very fast triple Orbital, and Idra went for an uncharacteristic Roach Warren, being scared into expecting heavier aggression with Hellions. Had Puma gone for another 2 base push, it would have been crushed easily. Instead, he played extremely greedy, while Idra invested heavily on some defence. End result, Idra was on equal base with Terran, with lesser income. The end of the game was just Idra being spread across the map by a larger army and a stronger econ.

People trying to act like Idra bombed those games obviously weren't watching the same match I was. He held those pushes a lot better than most players would have (Morrow/Thorzain should be proof enough of that), but Puma simply played to the player, and did it perfectly.

This

User was warned for this post
I was an athiest until I watched the Day[9] daily
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
December 04 2011 13:04 GMT
#30786
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
KvltMan
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Sweden1609 Posts
December 04 2011 13:08 GMT
#30787
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.
Get crunk
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
December 04 2011 13:19 GMT
#30788
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
December 04 2011 13:21 GMT
#30789
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
December 04 2011 13:27 GMT
#30790
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders


ahk thanks... hard for me to tell when i haven't watched the games
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Frail
Profile Joined October 2010
Iceland336 Posts
December 04 2011 14:21 GMT
#30791
idrA going to Korea, he'll be back with a vengeance!
Whargarbl
VashTS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1675 Posts
December 04 2011 16:14 GMT
#30792
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders

Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired.
VashTS; 330; Random -- Ranked #9 Pokemon Video Game Player in the World in 2009
Dismay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1180 Posts
December 04 2011 18:04 GMT
#30793
Does anyone remember when and where IdrA called early game protoss air ridiculous? It was sometime last year or way early this year and was either SotG or JP and Friends or... something, I don't remember, but it was way early on, I think before he and Artosis did the whole Imbalanced thing. I remember people asked about his equipment and keybinds if that helps.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-04 20:48:42
December 04 2011 20:48 GMT
#30794
On December 05 2011 01:14 VashTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders

Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired.


typical. so what is IdrA suppose to do in these scenarios? since a marauder and 2 rines can hold anything. also i like how 100 mineral bunker instantly kill 6 banelings, which is 300 mins and 150 gas(since you guys are gonna start saying banelings soon).
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
December 04 2011 20:51 GMT
#30795
On December 05 2011 05:48 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2011 01:14 VashTS wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders

Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired.


typical. so what is IdrA suppose to do in these scenarios? since a marauder and 2 rines can hold anything. also i like how 100 mineral bunker instantly kill 6 banelings, which is 300 mins and 150 gas(since you guys are gonna start saying banelings soon).

Idra backed off after a rocket launched out of the bunker though, so I am not sure whether he actually knew it was only 1 marauder.
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
December 04 2011 22:41 GMT
#30796
i really wanted idra to win. what should he have done to stay in the nasl, he seemed to get beat by the same tac twice, the 3rd game was essentailly the same tac but he couldnt get his stuff out ontime . . and this is ridiculous as these guys get them out ON TIME!

It just looked like a complete steam walk. what could he have done?
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
December 04 2011 22:48 GMT
#30797
don't worry guys... its Korea time soon
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
December 05 2011 00:15 GMT
#30798
On December 05 2011 07:41 StatixEx wrote:
i really wanted idra to win. what should he have done to stay in the nasl, he seemed to get beat by the same tac twice, the 3rd game was essentailly the same tac but he couldnt get his stuff out ontime . . and this is ridiculous as these guys get them out ON TIME!

It just looked like a complete steam walk. what could he have done?

Game one and two, Idra needed to scout the early aggression and invest more into Lings and Blings to defend with fewer losses. Game two, he could have gone aggressive and took advantage of the CC first from Puma.

Game three, Idra delayed his tech by several minutes by investing 1350 minerals and 200 gas to pump out 8 Roaches that weren't necessary, all because he was scared into expecting more early aggression. Once he overlord scouted the 3rd Orbital going down, I think the only option was to go desperate, instead of playing catch-up.

All-in-all, it was a matter of assumptions. First two games, Idra thought he could go lax on defence, and turned out to be wrong. Game three, he assumed more aggression, and went defensive, which was completely the wrong decision against greedy macro play.

Of course, this is just my 20/20 hindsight opinion. I'm not nearly pro enough to give a worthwhile analysis on all the situations.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Sarang
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia2363 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 00:35:05
December 05 2011 00:34 GMT
#30799
On December 05 2011 05:48 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2011 01:14 VashTS wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders

Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired.


typical. so what is IdrA suppose to do in these scenarios? since a marauder and 2 rines can hold anything. also i like how 100 mineral bunker instantly kill 6 banelings, which is 300 mins and 150 gas(since you guys are gonna start saying banelings soon).


It's people like you who give the IdrA fanclub, and IdrA fans, a bad reputation.

Can't you express your sadness at IdrA losing without balance whining? >.>

---

I realised this morning I haven't seen any of IdrA's games in awhile, and I kinda feel like watching some today. Have there been any particularly good series involving IdrA lately? If so, if someone could recommend it to me, that'd be awesome. =)

If there haven't been, I'm happy to watch a series where IdrA just crushes someone. xD
"Killer helped me feel better before coming to the arena. He told me to say that." - Bomber
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
December 05 2011 00:40 GMT
#30800
On December 05 2011 09:34 Sarang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2011 05:48 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 05 2011 01:14 VashTS wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:
On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.

roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???

that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games.

You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence.


i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs?

Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders

Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired.


typical. so what is IdrA suppose to do in these scenarios? since a marauder and 2 rines can hold anything. also i like how 100 mineral bunker instantly kill 6 banelings, which is 300 mins and 150 gas(since you guys are gonna start saying banelings soon).


It's people like you who give the IdrA fanclub, and IdrA fans, a bad reputation.

Can't you express your sadness at IdrA losing without balance whining? >.>

---

I realised this morning I haven't seen any of IdrA's games in awhile, and I kinda feel like watching some today. Have there been any particularly good series involving IdrA lately? If so, if someone could recommend it to me, that'd be awesome. =)

If there haven't been, I'm happy to watch a series where IdrA just crushes someone. xD

Well, Idra rolled over Strelok pretty well in NASL2. The vs Puma games were painful though.
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