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On December 04 2011 15:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:
People aren't giving Puma any credit whatsoever. He metagamed Idra hard, and no, that doesn't mean "went for all-ins before Mutas popped" like so many people pretend it does.
Contrary to popular belief, Idra has extremely strong early game defence. The reason he can bank 800/800 to pop 7 Mutalisks and Air Upgrades in one go is because of his Hellion defence, and extremely strong ling/bling control that can fend off the inevitable Marine/Tank timing pushes that follows, without investing heavily in static defence or over-committal to T1 units..
The reason Puma crushed him so easily was because he went for two specifically timed attacks designed to hit before Mutas were available, while prioritizing a strong economy to match Idras. The first game, he specifically went Siege Tech first so that he could push long before the Spire finished, unlike most Terrans who go for Marine upgrades first and end up dealing with Ling/Bling/Muta. This forced Idra to use his banked resources on Lings and Banelings, and he couldn't get any Mutas to snipe of tanks and Hellions.
Second game, too many people are harping on the Hellion/Marauder timing. The real issue was that Puma went CC first, which meant the push wasn't all-in in the slightest. Idra held it off, while taking moderate damage, but Puma's economy was 1.5x ahead on SCVs alone, not even counting Mules. If it had been any other player doing an ordinary Hellion/Marauder push, it would have been held, and they would have been on equal economic footing. Puma macroed first, and attacked second.
Third game was brilliant mind games, because he went for a very fast triple Orbital, and Idra went for an uncharacteristic Roach Warren, being scared into expecting heavier aggression with Hellions. Had Puma gone for another 2 base push, it would have been crushed easily. Instead, he played extremely greedy, while Idra invested heavily on some defence. End result, Idra was on equal base with Terran, with lesser income. The end of the game was just Idra being spread across the map by a larger army and a stronger econ.
People trying to act like Idra bombed those games obviously weren't watching the same match I was. He held those pushes a lot better than most players would have (Morrow/Thorzain should be proof enough of that), but Puma simply played to the player, and did it perfectly.
Great analysis, spot on :D
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its kinda sad that IdrA didnt find a solution in this BO5 when usually its only a BO3 so its kinda hard to do, but the third game i thought he would try to be more aggresive and drone behind that. didnt happen.
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Little late to the fan club, but sign me up! Been watching idra since brood war, still love watching him now
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On December 04 2011 15:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:
People aren't giving Puma any credit whatsoever. He metagamed Idra hard, and no, that doesn't mean "went for all-ins before Mutas popped" like so many people pretend it does.
Contrary to popular belief, Idra has extremely strong early game defence. The reason he can bank 800/800 to pop 7 Mutalisks and Air Upgrades in one go is because of his Hellion defence, and extremely strong ling/bling control that can fend off the inevitable Marine/Tank timing pushes that follows, without investing heavily in static defence or over-committal to T1 units..
The reason Puma crushed him so easily was because he went for two specifically timed attacks designed to hit before Mutas were available, while prioritizing a strong economy to match Idras. The first game, he specifically went Siege Tech first so that he could push long before the Spire finished, unlike most Terrans who go for Marine upgrades first and end up dealing with Ling/Bling/Muta. This forced Idra to use his banked resources on Lings and Banelings, and he couldn't get any Mutas to snipe of tanks and Hellions.
Second game, too many people are harping on the Hellion/Marauder timing. The real issue was that Puma went CC first, which meant the push wasn't all-in in the slightest. Idra held it off, while taking moderate damage, but Puma's economy was 1.5x ahead on SCVs alone, not even counting Mules. If it had been any other player doing an ordinary Hellion/Marauder push, it would have been held, and they would have been on equal economic footing. Puma macroed first, and attacked second.
Third game was brilliant mind games, because he went for a very fast triple Orbital, and Idra went for an uncharacteristic Roach Warren, being scared into expecting heavier aggression with Hellions. Had Puma gone for another 2 base push, it would have been crushed easily. Instead, he played extremely greedy, while Idra invested heavily on some defence. End result, Idra was on equal base with Terran, with lesser income. The end of the game was just Idra being spread across the map by a larger army and a stronger econ.
People trying to act like Idra bombed those games obviously weren't watching the same match I was. He held those pushes a lot better than most players would have (Morrow/Thorzain should be proof enough of that), but Puma simply played to the player, and did it perfectly.
well said. i watched the whole thing and i didnt feel bad for idra for losing the games at all! in the LR thread i was asking if puma was training with idra in the EG house and it seems to true for the past 1 week at least. i mean, idra really get metagamed hardcore by puma the sneaky korean while our idra the great didnt bother to prepare any 'special tactic' for puma - it is pretty obvious if you watched these games, idra simply played like as if he was playing against any (top) terran player). Results? Idra lost without a doubt. korean players always showed great skills in making sick timing attack so tbh ggwp to Puma really.
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On December 05 2011 09:40 seiferoth10 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:34 Sarang wrote:On December 05 2011 05:48 ThePlayer33 wrote:On December 05 2011 01:14 VashTS wrote:On December 04 2011 22:21 Aocowns wrote:On December 04 2011 22:19 ThePlayer33 wrote:On December 04 2011 22:08 KvltMan wrote:On December 04 2011 22:04 ThePlayer33 wrote:
ok since the vods arent released yet, i want to know what happened in game 3.
roach warren vs triple orbital opening? and IdrA still cannot break Puma without doing enough damage???
that doesnt make any sense to me' brilliant mind games' part? how does going triple orbital rather than hellion opening out smarting a roach opening? please explain since i missed those games. You just told the tale yourself. He made IdrA believe that a strong push/timing was coming, which made IdrA go roaches. When the push didn't come, IdrA knew that he had to be the aggressor, which PuMa also knew and therefore had ample defence. i dont really understand? triple orbital and hold off 2 base roach push? because all you need is 2 bunkers and some scvs? Idra had 8 roaches, and Puma previously made marauders. So the bunkers were filled with marauders Only 1 Bunker had anything in it, which was 1 Rauder and 2 Rines. He had nothing else when the Roaches showed up, but was pumping Rines. Not that it matters, since Bunkers are pretty good at being mass repaired. typical. so what is IdrA suppose to do in these scenarios? since a marauder and 2 rines can hold anything. also i like how 100 mineral bunker instantly kill 6 banelings, which is 300 mins and 150 gas(since you guys are gonna start saying banelings soon). It's people like you who give the IdrA fanclub, and IdrA fans, a bad reputation. Can't you express your sadness at IdrA losing without balance whining? >.> --- I realised this morning I haven't seen any of IdrA's games in awhile, and I kinda feel like watching some today. Have there been any particularly good series involving IdrA lately? If so, if someone could recommend it to me, that'd be awesome. =) If there haven't been, I'm happy to watch a series where IdrA just crushes someone. xD Well, Idra rolled over Strelok pretty well in NASL2. The vs Puma games were painful though.
Ah thank you, I'll check it out. =)
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This is a IdrA video to all his fans and anti-fans, great player with a hot temper.....
IdrA blowout highlights 2011
http://www.youtube.com/embed/LwoLqMFdonw
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LwoLqMFdonw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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The video is embedded incorrectly....but after watching it, it was lackluster. It was like 4 stream quotes that weren't rage, the MMA game, the Hallucinated Void Ray Game, and the clip of him throwing off his headphones replayed like 20 times. I'm sure you could've found many more examples. IdrA cursing in his booth after a game vs Boxer MLG Anahiem comes to mind...and I don't even try to remember IdrA rages.
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i think in game 2 and 3 puma got 3rd orbital faster than idra 3rd hatch wich shows how badly idra was outplayed ;(
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Yeah, that explanation above really hits it. He metagamed him so hard and went on to win the tournament! PuMa such a baller <3
I hope when they're living together he'll teach Greg where the weak points in his game are and how to fix them. IdrA could really use a wise mentor and there is probably no-one better than BoxeR and PuMa.
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Well.. at least PuMa went on to win the tournament and kept the championship within EG. Like everyone else I'm excited to see IdrA in Korea again.
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Lololol someone has yet to say whats the correct response IdrA coulve done in game 3. 1 rax FE? a bunker with 2 rines and marauder, no problem. get 3rd orbital? a bunker, 2 marines and a marauder no problem. why not get 4th orbital in that case?
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On December 06 2011 05:44 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Lololol someone has yet to say whats the correct response IdrA coulve done in game 3. 1 rax FE? a bunker with 2 rines and marauder, no problem. get 3rd orbital? a bunker, 2 marines and a marauder no problem. why not get 4th orbital in that case?
This isn't an area for balance-discussion...
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Im going to make the update tomorrow so everyone can upload their pictures and because I really want to play Skyrim right now.
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On December 06 2011 05:49 KvltMan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:44 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Lololol someone has yet to say whats the correct response IdrA coulve done in game 3. 1 rax FE? a bunker with 2 rines and marauder, no problem. get 3rd orbital? a bunker, 2 marines and a marauder no problem. why not get 4th orbital in that case?
This isn't an area for balance-discussion...
IdrA, and some other zergs for that matter, really have to start doing more random ling early game timings. They're incredibly effective against greedy terran.
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On December 06 2011 05:44 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Lololol someone has yet to say whats the correct response IdrA coulve done in game 3. 1 rax FE? a bunker with 2 rines and marauder, no problem. get 3rd orbital? a bunker, 2 marines and a marauder no problem. why not get 4th orbital in that case?
i think the correct response would have been idra reaching over his computer, slapping puma across the face and telling him to stop responding so correctly to idra's playstyle. =)
oh, and to answer your question, there are numerous responses. looking back, i am sure that idra knew what he did wrong, and hopefully the next match between them won't be so one-sided.
congrats to puma for playing so well against idra, and the rest of the tournament.
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On December 06 2011 05:44 ThePlayer33 wrote:
Lololol someone has yet to say whats the correct response IdrA coulve done in game 3. 1 rax FE? a bunker with 2 rines and marauder, no problem. get 3rd orbital? a bunker, 2 marines and a marauder no problem. why not get 4th orbital in that case?
It's because of fans like you I so enjoy visiting the Idra fanclub lol
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Acording to ret stream, idra and him did acctualy smoke weed together, intressting
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On December 06 2011 07:47 Veclada wrote:
Acording to ret stream, idra and him did acctualy smoke weed together, intressting
You mean IdrA isnt really a robot? And him and ret are normal 20 something year olds =p
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On December 06 2011 07:50 Angelbelow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:47 Veclada wrote:
Acording to ret stream, idra and him did acctualy smoke weed together, intressting You mean IdrA isnt really a robot? And him and ret are normal 20 something year olds =p
lolol my thoughts exactly.
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On December 06 2011 07:47 Veclada wrote:
Acording to ret stream, idra and him did acctualy smoke weed together, intressting
Dammit. Why didn't he stream. With commentary. (Okok... its bad for EG's image)
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EPT
