On October 22 2011 22:03 Pooman wrote: Oh well. ESWC's loss. I have no interest in the tournament anymore.
Loving a player more than the game is actually pretty sad. With MKP, Stephano, Mana and Grubby left this is a great tournament to watch, even for Idra fans.
Well, you don't really have the right to judge what someone enjoys. If I enjoyed poking a ball of cotton with a fork more than watching Stephano play, that's my opinion and that's all that matters.
Even if the sole reason a person watches is to watch IdrA, there's nothing wrong with that. Differences of opinion aren't "sad" no matter what you think. That's like saying a Flames fan is "sad" for not watching the games of every other team in the league, even if they're fine teams.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I have no problem with people following just one player. You don't have to spend 30 hours a week watching SC or whatever. The bit that irked me was "ESWC's loss". Upsets are good for tournaments and the whole scene. You don't want to see the same players play each other again and again and again. If Idra, MC, Huk, and MKP - the fan favourites - get to the top four every time, the tournament scene would stagnate and this is what would actually be their loss. This is what I challenged - that ESWC had somehow lost from one favourite being knocked out. It still has some amazing players and if people stop watching as soon as their favourite is out, why have tournaments in the first place? Why not have Idra play only showmatches to ensure that he is constantly on and we don't have to bother with any other inferior players?
Now, the point about watching the "Flames" - I'm assuming this is some US team - is a good one, although it doesn't change anything. If you have a league that goes on for almost a whole year and you have the teams in it playing week in, week out, then everyone can benefit. Fans of specific teams/players can stick to them, while others can watch the teams at the top of the league, the local derby or whatever they want to. Sure, some teams would get the most attention but they would play a part in the whole system. However, SC2 doesn't have this type of leagues at the moment. It is more like the Champions League in football (you know, soccer). Most people have a favourite team but even if it gets knocked out, they would still follow the big matches from the rest of the tournament.
For the record, as I said prior to ESWC (I think I even ended up arguing about this with someone), I don't think that Idra's ZvZ is good. He has hardly played against any top players since facing Zenio and Sen in NASL S1.
On October 23 2011 06:36 xtfftc wrote: For the record, as I said prior to ESWC (I think I even ended up arguing about this with someone), I don't think that Idra's ZvZ is good. He has hardly played against any top players since facing Zenio and Sen in NASL S1.
He had an amazing ZvZ before, but it slowly became kind of avarage since he left korea and did not have alot of Good zergs to practice with (not saying machine and strifcro are bad, but that idrA need a viraity of zergs and styles to play against)
On October 23 2011 04:33 Aocowns wrote: and holy shit, Idra just lost to some unknown! Everyone has bad tournaments, and we can't just look away from the fact that Stephano won IPL3 recently, and that Grubby has been training in Korea. It won't get us anywhere to try to force our opinions on others, and WC3 was a good game in its own right. It all comes down to opinions.
Well, that's assuming that people can't like bad things. I'm not saying that people don't like WC3 or they shouldn't (trying to argue with people ignorant to refutation? no thanks) but it's dead.
Good games don't die, they spawn sequels (the sequels being good or not is a different discussion). Just like SC, just like DotA, just like Halo. Even with the amount of support WC3 got, it still died. I'm not saying Blizzard should have kept up but nobody else did. Nobody else looked and said, "Gee! This looks splendid and people enjoy it! We should emulate it and maybe even expand and improve upon it!". No, they gutted it and made DotA. That's just factually not a good game.
You are by far the most uninformed poster on team liquid. The fact that you actually are telling other people complete false. Blizzard "gutting" WC3 to make Dota? Where did you hear this from? Are you always drunk? I just don't understand how someone can spout complete shit over and over and over again without being inebriated.
On October 23 2011 04:33 Aocowns wrote: and holy shit, Idra just lost to some unknown! Everyone has bad tournaments, and we can't just look away from the fact that Stephano won IPL3 recently, and that Grubby has been training in Korea. It won't get us anywhere to try to force our opinions on others, and WC3 was a good game in its own right. It all comes down to opinions.
Well, that's assuming that people can't like bad things. I'm not saying that people don't like WC3 or they shouldn't (trying to argue with people ignorant to refutation? no thanks) but it's dead.
Good games don't die, they spawn sequels (the sequels being good or not is a different discussion). Just like SC, just like DotA, just like Halo. Even with the amount of support WC3 got, it still died. I'm not saying Blizzard should have kept up but nobody else did. Nobody else looked and said, "Gee! This looks splendid and people enjoy it! We should emulate it and maybe even expand and improve upon it!". No, they gutted it and made DotA. That's just factually not a good game.
You are by far the most uninformed poster on team liquid. The fact that you actually are telling other people complete false. Blizzard "gutting" WC3 to make Dota? Where did you hear this from? Are you always drunk? I just don't understand how someone can spout complete shit over and over and over again without being inebriated.
You perfectly summerized what i thought. This guy is just a complete troll, or a complete r*t*rd or always drunk...
On October 23 2011 04:33 Aocowns wrote: and holy shit, Idra just lost to some unknown! Everyone has bad tournaments, and we can't just look away from the fact that Stephano won IPL3 recently, and that Grubby has been training in Korea. It won't get us anywhere to try to force our opinions on others, and WC3 was a good game in its own right. It all comes down to opinions.
Well, that's assuming that people can't like bad things. I'm not saying that people don't like WC3 or they shouldn't (trying to argue with people ignorant to refutation? no thanks) but it's dead.
Good games don't die, they spawn sequels (the sequels being good or not is a different discussion). Just like SC, just like DotA, just like Halo. Even with the amount of support WC3 got, it still died. I'm not saying Blizzard should have kept up but nobody else did. Nobody else looked and said, "Gee! This looks splendid and people enjoy it! We should emulate it and maybe even expand and improve upon it!". No, they gutted it and made DotA. That's just factually not a good game.
You are by far the most uninformed poster on team liquid. The fact that you actually are telling other people complete false. Blizzard "gutting" WC3 to make Dota? Where did you hear this from? Are you always drunk? I just don't understand how someone can spout complete shit over and over and over again without being inebriated.
You perfectly summerized what i thought. This guy is just a complete troll, or a complete r*t*rd or always drunk...
You speculation is quite inflammatory, sir/madam.
It is not appreciated!
This is a fanclub of Idra, not a fanclub of Hnnngg. Please take the Hnnngg related discussion to a relevant area!
On October 22 2011 22:03 Pooman wrote: Oh well. ESWC's loss. I have no interest in the tournament anymore.
Loving a player more than the game is actually pretty sad.
Um... are you a fan of any real sports? That's kind of how it works bro. I don't have the time to watch all SC2 games, and even if I did I wouldn't want to; I have other/better/more important things to do. So rather than trying to folow every single game and every single tournament, I choose to follow my favourite player: Idra. Sorry if you find that sad bro.
On October 22 2011 22:03 Pooman wrote: Oh well. ESWC's loss. I have no interest in the tournament anymore.
Loving a player more than the game is actually pretty sad.
Um... are you a fan of any real sports? That's kind of how it works bro. I don't have the time to watch all SC2 games, and even if I did I wouldn't want to; I have other/better/more important things to do. So rather than trying to folow every single game and every single tournament, I choose to follow my favourite player: Idra. Sorry if you find that sad bro.
I think Pooman is right. SC2 has thousands of games every month, watching every single one of them is pretty time consuming. Following your favorite player through tournaments is sometimes the only way most casuals will even watch SC2. The only people who watch SC2 for the sake of watching the game are people who want to learn build orders that some pros use.
It's quite simple: Your favorite player losing, and you as a casual = You will not watch the rest of the tournament since you don't actually care what the result is.
On October 22 2011 22:03 Pooman wrote: Oh well. ESWC's loss. I have no interest in the tournament anymore.
Loving a player more than the game is actually pretty sad. With MKP, Stephano, Mana and Grubby left this is a great tournament to watch, even for Idra fans.
Well, you don't really have the right to judge what someone enjoys. If I enjoyed poking a ball of cotton with a fork more than watching Stephano play, that's my opinion and that's all that matters.
Even if the sole reason a person watches is to watch IdrA, there's nothing wrong with that. Differences of opinion aren't "sad" no matter what you think. That's like saying a Flames fan is "sad" for not watching the games of every other team in the league, even if they're fine teams.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I have no problem with people following just one player. You don't have to spend 30 hours a week watching SC or whatever. The bit that irked me was "ESWC's loss". Upsets are good for tournaments and the whole scene. You don't want to see the same players play each other again and again and again.
As for the "ESWC's loss" thing: I think you're reading too much into it. The point of my post was just that I personally have lost interest in the tournament.
As to your second point, you actually DO want to see the same players play again and again. Its a sign that the game is maturing if the top players consistently beat everyone else. The sport that most resembles SC2 from a tournament structure standpoint is tennis, and in tennis tournaments you nearly always have the top players making it to the finals. It shows that those players are actually the best in the world. I agree that upsets are good, but only if they are sufficiently rare to imply that the game is mature and stable. When every second game ends in an upset, its a bad thing because it shows how volatile the game really is.
This doesn't have much to do with Idra, but I feel its an important counterpoint to your argument.
I think I've made the rest of my views clear enough, so I'm only going to point out something about professional tennis. The comparison with the current state of the SC2 scene is a good one - but this is something tennis is actually criticised for. Even the players themselves complain about this situation. I don't remember which one but a few months ago one of the best players in the world went on strike because the top players are forced to play way too many games in a season. This results in a lower standard of play and lots of injuries.
I probably did read too much into what you wrote but it wasn't meant to be directed at you in particular - I've read/heard similar stuff lots of times. And I criticise fans of football teams who tend to be obsessed with certain players; it's definitely not something that is limited to StarCraft fans.
On October 23 2011 07:43 xtfftc wrote: I think I've made the rest of my views clear enough, so I'm only going to point out something about professional tennis. The comparison with the current state of the SC2 scene is a good one - but this is something tennis is actually criticised for. Even the players themselves complain about this situation. I don't remember which one but a few months ago one of the best players in the world went on strike because the top players are forced to play way too many games in a season. This results in a lower standard of play and lots of injuries.
I probably did read too much into what you wrote but it wasn't meant to be directed at you in particular - I've read/heard similar stuff lots of times. And I criticise fans of football teams who tend to be obsessed with certain players; it's definitely not something that is limited to StarCraft fans.
can you guys do this in your pm's
theirs no need to add more arguing and shit to idras fanclub, its a place to support idra, not a place for idras fans to commune
Hey guys, is there an interview with IdrA where he talks about the games vs. Bomber at Orlando?
Someone said he was on Live on Three and I skipped through it but didn't catch him - did I just get unlucky with my skips and miss him, or did he appear on some other show?
On October 23 2011 07:50 tlrocksss wrote: theirs no need to add more arguing and shit to idras fanclub, its a place to support idra, not a place for idras fans to commune
Lol, actually that's exactly what it is. What else is a fanclub for than to be a place for fans to talk about stuff. Sure, the stuff is usually related to IdrA, but ultimately even the arguments are about something regarding IdrA.
And we support IdrA by talking about how awesome he is all the time.
On October 23 2011 07:28 Pooman wrote: As for the "ESWC's loss" thing: I think you're reading too much into it. The point of my post was just that I personally have lost interest in the tournament.
I think when you type something like that, it naturally comes off as very harsh towards the tournament, and even elitist in a sense. While you may not mean it to sound that way, tone is much harder to interpret on the internet than it is in real life.
Hope it's comfortable for idra doesn't look like he'll be sleeping there just playing. Do we know if he's going to Korea before providence like huk and puma?
EPT
