EPT"You may only attack if your worker count is over 90"
- Submit replays to eonblu95@gmail.com as attachment. Latest submission is Monday
Here's Episode 1:
PiG Daily #21 -ICYFAR Wk 1 - Only main base gas!
The PiG Daily - Thinking critically about SC - Page 5
| Forum Index > Community Content |
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
"You may only attack if your worker count is over 90" - Submit replays to eonblu95@gmail.com as attachment. Latest submission is Monday Here's Episode 1: PiG Daily #21 -ICYFAR Wk 1 - Only main base gas! | ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
| ||
|
heqat
Switzerland96 Posts
| ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Set up in game with all 3 races under my control Turn on building grid Building placement: Zerg Pool to create a wall with the gas Has to have enough space for queen to pop from side to side of the gap, otherwise it can get awkward. Can create even more of a wall with bane nest/evos etc for instance vs a lingbane all-in. Wall-off + queens hold position in gaps to defend your mineral line Soo vs Byul evo chamber + queen + bane nest wall All important tech in between main and natural - not on the edge of the base where drops or air harass can snipe it easily. Cute thing in some super lategame situations - and was quite common back in the SH era of hots was to then surround the tech/upgrades in spines so it couldn’t be focused down. This way rather than having to cover all your first 3 bases with spines you’d put them all together in one big clump where only a massive drop could fight it. If you lost a hatchery - no big deal, you lose some drones, no big deal, so long as you don’t lose the tech - at that stage of the game most of the hatcheries are mined out anyway. Don’t block up behind your mineral line or you create choke points for drops/adepts etc to hide in - also limits queen/ravager/spore ability to stop liberators Frost example Expanding away from your opponent - better when using a mobile army - lingbane-muta Easier to defend frontal push More exposed for you to defend from counters and drops Expanding towards opponent - better when using a less mobile, meatier or stronger-pushing army - roach ravager Harder to defend from frontal push Easier to defend from counters On the path of your army ^Terran often is aggressive front-pushing in all matchups, so they almost always expand towards their opponents, even when using a mobile bio composition. Also if you have a ranged army you prefer the closer base - as long as you can fight all together in a choke-type area you’ll be favoured - if you have to spread out vs a massive melee army (adept, ling, chargelot, roach) then your army becomes a lot less efficient Protoss is almost always more defensive and using a slower composition, so gets the bases towards the enemy. However sometimes with say a wonky phenix-adept composition that’s hyper mobile they might expand away from the enemy. ^Example of Frost 4th base locations in vertical spawns Terran Walloff every game Adepts, speedlings, helions Always start your next wall nice and early at your natural - start queing those depots up! Reactors/tech labs slow down production a lot so you’re very reliant on walls Production facilities in neat rows - leaving space for addons + tank size walking path. Back-door walloffs to stop adepts! Hiding tech - harder to swap addons, but you try and put them further back so units poking up the ramp or overlord sacrifices have less chance of spotting it 3rd depot is super late these days but because of the kickstart you normally have enough units to defend most early attacks with just bunker and scv pull Bunker at natural Bunker in 3rd If you think its heavy adept prism aggression then bunker in inbase natural or main mineral line Ebays in a safe place Make important addons ( early on for stim cs ) further on the inside so they are not vulnerable to stalkers shooting from the lowground or blinking on them as fast Engineering bays and armories are preferrably together and usually between the main and natural to make them the hardest to snipe for massive warp prism warpins pay attention to the map layout to know where to build turrets and how many to counter prisms Uthermal advice: [7:55:21 PM] uThermal: - Walloff and secondary wall off are first thing indeed [7:55:52 PM] uThermal: - Make important addons ( early on for stim cs ) further on the inside so they are not vulnerable to stalkers shooting from the lowground or blinking on them as fast [7:56:36 PM] uThermal: - Engineering bays and armories are preferrably together and usually between the main and natural to make them the hardest to snipe for massive warp prism warpins [7:57:35 PM] uThermal: Besides these its important to make production buildings close together for addon swaps and pay attention to the map layout to know where to build turrets and how many to counter prisms | ||
|
dylanht
4 Posts
Accolades: I ended up watching your stream and checking out the show after hearing you cast - your wording, what you chose to highlight, and the energy you put into your commentary based on the scenario at hand was eloquent indeed. I'm stoked the show has the same feel, and the way you try to highlight things that are left unsaid and state/summarize them for the audience in What-If Wednesdays is great too, feels like you wear a "journalism" hat when talking to other Pros which adds a lot of clarity and purpose to the conversation imo. These dailies ramp up the "social" feel with respect to Day9s dailies too which is nice. Keep it up! What is my point and do I even have one? I am a random player in gold league, I adopted TheCore about a year ago. I'm just lately starting to take notes on what I see on the production tab and worker/army overlay in TY/Dark/Zest games to try and emulate their styles in each matchup. Prior to this, I just found it far too onerous to actually learn a "build order". I had put a real effort forth using SALT or a sheet of paper vs. AI many times, but sporadically. I struggle to sustain the learning effort to lock-down a build and commit it to memory because frankly the process of learning it feels sub-optimal and the idea of using the clock/supply too glib (clearly I am also being lazy, that's a given). I will often resort to free-wheeling even when I know I'm going against the grain of the style I am trying to learn and miss the timing to tech up / expand / take gases for the next leg of the game. I think part of this can be attributed to the way I have watched SC2. I have spent years watching VODs (before playing I watched SC2) without paying due attention to the production tab, minimap, or other information present in the overlays such as worker/army supply balance. After digging in to improve my mechanics, I'm starting to realize that I just don't understand how SC2 works because my picture of "how its done" is static - I just witness snapshots of flashy micro with big armies or harass groups and *not* the pre-meditation and mentality of scarcity/urgency that goes into how good players posture against one another and chain together advantages and counters into a win. If I'd been watching the production tab instead of the eye candy in the middle of the screen, I might have a pretty good sense of what builds/plays/responses beat what other builds/plays/responses (building by building and unit by unit) under what game conditions, versus having a pretty good sense of what compositions beat what other compositions in engagements and harass - a continuous vs. discrete view of well executed SC. I have noticed that the ideas and concepts of a build order bounce off me because I don't understand some basic SC2 math - the fastest possible timing for specific techs whether attacking or defending, correlating income from a given number of bases/gases with production requirements, the effect of upgrades on unit production, how long things take to kick in, pay for themselves, or become redundant. There are these timers and hidden benchmarks all over the place in SC2 matches, and along with mechanics being able to reason about them in real-time and correctly seems key to tactical success and efficiency in-game. I kind of picture a player's understanding as a large decision tree, like an expanded tech tree, where if you falter moving down a branch or your opponent takes a chainsaw to that branch that side of the tree kind of "goes dark" and you need to readjust to find another path to victory - build orders are really just a way to push deep into that tree chasing a victory and dodge the chainsaws while applying your own, but the chainsaws are bounded by time and resources as to where they are most cutting along different paths. Anyways I have no idea how to turn this into a reasonable question or topic for a show - I just feel like an incomplete picture and shallow treatment of timings, production, and economy afflict many players' understanding of the game including myself, and it may have a lot to do with the way we try to digest and review information about SC2. Thanks so much for the great stuff you're putting out there dude! | ||
|
Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
| ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On June 20 2016 02:53 dylanht wrote: Hi PiG - awesome content! Accolades: I ended up watching your stream and checking out the show after hearing you cast - your wording, what you chose to highlight, and the energy you put into your commentary based on the scenario at hand was eloquent indeed. I'm stoked the show has the same feel, and the way you try to highlight things that are left unsaid and state/summarize them for the audience in What-If Wednesdays is great too, feels like you wear a "journalism" hat when talking to other Pros which adds a lot of clarity and purpose to the conversation imo. These dailies ramp up the "social" feel with respect to Day9s dailies too which is nice. Keep it up! What is my point and do I even have one? I am a random player in gold league, I adopted TheCore about a year ago. I'm just lately starting to take notes on what I see on the production tab and worker/army overlay in TY/Dark/Zest games to try and emulate their styles in each matchup. Prior to this, I just found it far too onerous to actually learn a "build order". I had put a real effort forth using SALT or a sheet of paper vs. AI many times, but sporadically. I struggle to sustain the learning effort to lock-down a build and commit it to memory because frankly the process of learning it feels sub-optimal and the idea of using the clock/supply too glib (clearly I am also being lazy, that's a given). I will often resort to free-wheeling even when I know I'm going against the grain of the style I am trying to learn and miss the timing to tech up / expand / take gases for the next leg of the game. I think part of this can be attributed to the way I have watched SC2. I have spent years watching VODs (before playing I watched SC2) without paying due attention to the production tab, minimap, or other information present in the overlays such as worker/army supply balance. After digging in to improve my mechanics, I'm starting to realize that I just don't understand how SC2 works because my picture of "how its done" is static - I just witness snapshots of flashy micro with big armies or harass groups and *not* the pre-meditation and mentality of scarcity/urgency that goes into how good players posture against one another and chain together advantages and counters into a win. If I'd been watching the production tab instead of the eye candy in the middle of the screen, I might have a pretty good sense of what builds/plays/responses beat what other builds/plays/responses (building by building and unit by unit) under what game conditions, versus having a pretty good sense of what compositions beat what other compositions in engagements and harass - a continuous vs. discrete view of well executed SC. I have noticed that the ideas and concepts of a build order bounce off me because I don't understand some basic SC2 math - the fastest possible timing for specific techs whether attacking or defending, correlating income from a given number of bases/gases with production requirements, the effect of upgrades on unit production, how long things take to kick in, pay for themselves, or become redundant. There are these timers and hidden benchmarks all over the place in SC2 matches, and along with mechanics being able to reason about them in real-time and correctly seems key to tactical success and efficiency in-game. I kind of picture a player's understanding as a large decision tree, like an expanded tech tree, where if you falter moving down a branch or your opponent takes a chainsaw to that branch that side of the tree kind of "goes dark" and you need to readjust to find another path to victory - build orders are really just a way to push deep into that tree chasing a victory and dodge the chainsaws while applying your own, but the chainsaws are bounded by time and resources as to where they are most cutting along different paths. Anyways I have no idea how to turn this into a reasonable question or topic for a show - I just feel like an incomplete picture and shallow treatment of timings, production, and economy afflict many players' understanding of the game including myself, and it may have a lot to do with the way we try to digest and review information about SC2. Thanks so much for the great stuff you're putting out there dude! Thanks so much - I have a lot of trouble going back to basics to see other player's point of view sometimes so this sort of feedback is actually very useful. It's hard for me to immediately pinpoint how I'd do a show to address this but definitely gives me some food for thought on some of my next beginner basics as well as decision making episodes. | ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
Show Notes: + Show Spoiler + Seither vs Kingkong KSS - WCS Summer ANZ Qualifier Same notes as below pretty much But goes for double tankivac pressure Beasty vs Snute Invader - corsair cup 13th June - courtesy of basetradetv sub replay packs Barracks-gas-reactor-CC 2nd depot scv goes right into factory Factory Reactor Swaps with starport Single widow mine Tech lab Tank Build reactor 27-29 supply 2:40 - 2nd gas (2:20 if going double liberator) Straight into starport Starport Double medivac Double liberator/liberator + viking (save 75 gas if viking!) Build reactor 14 marines, and a mine load up with 2 medivacs Can hit a little faster with less marines 4:45/67 supply 3rd CC Barracks builds tech lab (keeps pumping marines if gumiho version) 2 more rax 84 supply/5:37 2xebay + 3rd gas Steadily add more rax up to 7-8, 3 tech labs Gumiho vs DRG Frozen Temple Unloads in main of frozen temple at 4:33 with 12 marines and a mine Gumiho keeps building extra liberators and delays his extra barracks Not many units behind the push - potentially vulnerable to a counterattack Super late stim and combat shields Follows up with double tankivac drop pressure whilst liberators are being annoying Waves of nonstop pressure Forcing mistakes out of zerg constantly [11:00:10 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: for the tank folowup [11:00:13 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: u go fast double gas [11:00:15 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: after 3rd [11:00:22 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: for bio u delay gas till u have 2 ebays 5 rax [11:00:58 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: no tanks [11:01:03 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: factory makes reactors [11:01:05 PM] Sheldon "Seither" llllllllllll: for the other rax Bunnys version: | ||
|
TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
W8ing for next task , maybe i can do some stuffff :D GJ PiG! | ||
|
MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
Also, real thanks for the hotkey video. I've always had trouble, especially in LotV with the Ling Bling style mainly due to defending harass and sending units to harass but I've become a lot better with it due to Alt + #. Thanks a lot, was totally unaware of this and explains how Life managed his units so well. | ||
|
Vedeynevin
United States431 Posts
On June 22 2016 11:23 MoosyDoosy wrote: Ay PiG, thanks for the dailies. I actually was smashed with the 1-1-1 drop so I'm taking notes now. -.- Also, real thanks for the hotkey video. I've always had trouble, especially in LotV with the Ling Bling style mainly due to defending harass and sending units to harass but I've become a lot better with it due to Alt + #. Thanks a lot, was totally unaware of this and explains how Life managed his units so well. Pretty sure the alt feature is new with LOTV. Life was just OP. He actually didn't hotkeys his eggs either (noticed it going through the replays of his Iem finals against maru). | ||
|
Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On June 22 2016 11:56 Vedeynevin wrote: Pretty sure the alt feature is new with LOTV. Life was just OP. He actually didn't hotkeys his eggs either (noticed it going through the replays of his Iem finals against maru). I heard that life didn't use base location hotkeys either. :o Imagine what he could have done with proper setup!! | ||
|
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On June 22 2016 14:25 Cascade wrote: I heard that life didn't use base location hotkeys either. :o Imagine what he could have done with proper setup!! Matchfix even less suspiciously? | ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On June 22 2016 11:56 Vedeynevin wrote: Pretty sure the alt feature is new with LOTV. Life was just OP. He actually didn't hotkeys his eggs either (noticed it going through the replays of his Iem finals against maru). I've heard people mention this, I wonder how situational it was. As a general rule doing things manually is better as it is consistent and always works - as long as you have the speed for it. 99.9% of players unfortunately will just play worse when they try not to hotkey eggs  | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15971 Posts
On June 22 2016 11:56 Vedeynevin wrote: Pretty sure the alt feature is new with LOTV. Life was just OP. He actually didn't hotkeys his eggs either (noticed it going through the replays of his Iem finals against maru). hotkeying eggs can be really detrimental sometimes for example when harassing with mutalisks and you have your eggs hotkeyed your rallied mutalisks may just fly over your opponents army and die so I think that's why he wasn't using it always. | ||
|
ejozl
Denmark3402 Posts
 | ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
| ||
|
Vedeynevin
United States431 Posts
| ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
On June 26 2016 10:57 Vedeynevin wrote: I don't suppose you could analyze or explain what the hell was happening in the Masa vs TRUE series Really bad observing? I only caught the start of the series watching the VoDs now - let's see what weirdness I'll find here... Edit: Ok ... well this was a lot like watching two friends play late at night.. super weird games. I've been toying with the idea of True's style but haven't practiced it a lot yet. Definitely might talk about the whole lingbane + drops vs Terran dynamic. Lots of focus on how attention, apm and tempo works in such a mechanical matchup For the most part it was just Masa making mistakes vs Ling-queen drop though. I'm sure he knows that he just needed to raise depots/pull scvs from natural more often. Not spread out his marines and use his scvs to buffer for them properly too. | ||
|
PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
"PiG Daily #27 - Using A Gameplan to Narrow Your Focus" + Show Spoiler + Narrowing your focus - adjusting your gameplan to improve Having a gameplan is great because: This is the first step in developing a build - whether it’s something written down exactly to every supply, or if it’s just a mental order that we tend to follow - This will allow us to develop habits and learn and improve our play. REPLAY OF Roach ling infestor into ultra Why do we make a gameplan? So we have an idea of where we’re heading So we can refine HOW we get there! So we can have consistency in our play! We need consistency to learn! Refine our responses to things If we play completely differently every single game, we will improve very slowly BINDING OF ISAAC - so hard to learn! By having goals we can evaluate how well we’re working towards them We can make adjustments to how we play in order to fit our game-plan better NARROWING YOUR FOCUS On the one hand it gives you a familiar pattern so you can feel out responses to things and instinctively learn what reactions work for you! However you can also ADJUST your gameplan to work on a specific area of your play. This is something not enough players use. It’s similar to the idea of imposing a restriction or CHALLENGE upon yourself to work on a certain area. IDRA AND SOME OTHER PROS NO SOUND - CANT HEAR ALERTS SO Forces them to watch minimap Example 1: Often when I teach people one of my builds I try to give them a SIMPLIFIED gameplan to what I use so that it helps NARROW their focus For instance I tell them just to do a big all-in after the early game macro - that way all that matters is your early macro - you either have enough stuff or you don’t. The game ends there either way. This allows you to refine the early-game and focus on that in isolation Replay - Just the opening into a Timing Attack Replay - Mass Roach Ravager Infestor ZvT Snute did this for months in early LoTV and quickly developed some of the best infestor + ravager control in LoTV. Replay - | ||
| ||
