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The PiG Daily - Thinking critically about SC - Page 7

Forum Index > Community Content
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PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-04 22:48:24
July 04 2016 22:46 GMT
#121
The PiG Daily #33 - Losira's Dragon-Turtle ZvT



Replays
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0suoovMS9qxVE9NNGxSbnIzaVE

Show Notes
+ Show Spoiler +
VoDs:

Vs Maru Frozen temple:

Vs Reality Ulrena:


Good build for aggressive maps
The fast carapace makes roaches incredibly efficient vs marines, and lings able to survive a tank blast.
Terran will scout the lack of a 3rd and be afraid of an all-in and might over-react
It crushes Terran aggression
People are having a very tough timing scouting zerg thoroughly, and instead count on a few pokes to check 3rd base timing, as well as a few timings or hard pressures to show what the zerg’s up to.
Makes it really hard to verify how they should react.

RUN THROUGH THE OPENING

17 pool
17 hatch
18 1:12-1:15 gas
Straight to 3 queens
46 - evo chamber (just before saturation) → carapace
48 - roach warren (just after 2-base mineral saturation)
3:40 - 2xgas ~48 supply
4th queen
@RW - 4-8 roaches for safety
~4:30 Lair
~60-75 3rd base (When you have money for it without pausing your production much.

Stay single evo all game - RAVE ABOUT THIS
Add 4th gas
Steadily drone 3rd, even before it’s up start droning it
Infestation→ Hive → Ultra cavern

Vs tankivac opening adjustment
After carapace starts, begin overlord speed and extra queen production
Use a 3-queen overlord drop to defend the tankivac
Just use some speedlings as extra support rather than roaches
Go drop 8 lings in their main since you’ve got ovie speed!

Infestors or bane drops?

You don’t have gas for both
Choose if you prefer fungal to combo with your bile, or bane drops to put pressure back on and pull your opponent’s attention home

Still is played out as a Hive rush heading for ultras, but get’s there in a very different way.

LOAD REPLAY VS JOSH GOING ULTRA/Hive

Show snippet of VoD showing bane drops from losira

Show replay vs josh going to ultras/hive

Show snippet of VoD showing


Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
ESKiMoJOE
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1 Post
July 06 2016 02:14 GMT
#122
Thanks PiG !!! Helped my game and a buddy of mine who's just getting into SC.
There is Always Money in the BANANA STAND
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
July 06 2016 03:07 GMT
#123
The PiG Daily #34 - ICYFAR - Blood Sacrifice - Blood for the Blood Gods!

Rule: One unit must die every minute of the game. Sacrifice may be required!

Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 04:13:49
July 07 2016 04:13 GMT
#124
Discuss and learn ZvP with the pros @ElazerSC2 and @mYiPtitDrogo on “What If? Wednesdays”!



It's a long ep so make sure you open it in Youtube and use the Timestamps in the comments section below!

Replays: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0suoovMS9qxRDFhMDhtVG00dFU
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
July 07 2016 13:14 GMT
#125
On June 30 2016 10:28 PiGStarcraft wrote:
The PiG Daily #30 - Polt vs Hydra- What If? Wednesdays - ZvT -+ Show Spoiler +


NP ejozl even if it's SLIGHTLY out of the rulings that's ok, generally stick to em but if you accidentally break them and the games still entertaining it's still got a good shot!


EDIT REPLAYS: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0suoovMS9qxQUU3UEFzZUdzTzg

Great episode.

It was really useful to see how to micro correctly and not correctly vs the hellbat+marine push, and how big difference it made! I already re-watched those two defenses a few time on youtube. :D
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
July 19 2016 09:38 GMT
#126
Thanks PiG, you're awesome! :D :D :D

Finally I have motivation for something to do when the weather is too bad for climbing!
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
July 20 2016 08:18 GMT
#127
The PiG Daily #36 - Proxcity! - ICYFAR Proxy Challenge

Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
July 22 2016 08:51 GMT
#128
The PiG Daily #37 - Showtime's double Oracle + blink PvZ



Replays: https://owncloud.dreamhack.se/s/ZWgjmi1B0HJEtxI
(ro16 - Showtime vs Elazer)

Show Notes

+ Show Spoiler +
Build Order

Zest is where the build may have originated from, and he does it damned well:


Benchmark: 7:30 - 8 sentries, 10 stalkers, 8 zealots (lots of lings so +1 zealots rock)

Oracle
Double oracle
4-6 adept timing
Robo, twilight + forge
Stalker-Sentry
~7:30 stalker sentry timing
HIT BEFORE LURKERS!
Force ravagers
Deny 4th base
Pick off units
2nd robo + immortal production
Option to go charge, archon, OR disruptor


9:40 -
Your aim is to stay on the map and keep on controlling chokes etc.
Lurkers can’t push into an army well as they take time to burrow, so you can snipe them off
You can delay a push until you have your counter up
This game no delay! Lurkers get in a great spot - especially for this map
On SEJONG you might want to just yolo their back rocks to threaten and keep them back, as the angles are so awkward to defend. You can buy a lot of time.
It’s just a bit dangerous if you get surrounded/flanked by lurkers


Potential counters

Drop the toss at 6:30-7:00 with some small ling/roach squads to buy valuable time
Good creep spread
Engage far out to waste FF
Need 4-5 ravagers to break FF
Try to avoid massing ravagers - too useless later on in the game

Basetrade

13:00 - great retreat by showtime abandoning the 4th and going for huge counters
Maybe disruptors would have avoided this situation being front on
However this map is so good for multiprong aggression - disruptors are very hard to control in those situations
Real issue was getting pushed so far back into bad spots and THEN going for the big counterattacks - getting those started earlier would have changed everything



Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
July 29 2016 14:55 GMT
#129
Hey PiG, nice work!

> If you feel like I say something that's not correct, challenge me on it!

You have mentioned in your videos you don't always like getting upgrades. E.g. for roaches in ZvZ (episode 2 I think).
I am not sure this is good advice for the majority of players for the 3 following reasons:

- Lower players (I'd say easily up to diamond) often float the minerals and gas that is required for the upgrade. It's just as ridiculous not getting the upgrade as witnessing a player cancelling a structure to build another one (just like the pros, wow!) when he has enough resources to let the first one finish AND build the second one.

- Even if you spend your resources perfectly, the first upgrade costs about as much as one ravager or one muta. You advocate not getting the upgrade but carelessly throw away roaches for a distraction and lose mutas due to bad micro (as we all do). Keep in mind that upgrades are a very apm-friendly way to get an advantage (it only takes 2 clicks). Having suboptimal micro indicates apm is a limiting factor for you = upgrades help you

- it is rather easy to calculate the point where an upgrade is worth it by looking at how many units profit from it. Obviously in a 30 roaches vs 30 roaches battle the +1 attack roaches will dish out an additional 30 damage per attack turn. That is more or less the equivalent of 2 roaches. Now the argument that you can delay the upgrading until you have a large army does not really hold because you will then behind compared to the enemy army. So by the time upgrades actually matter you will have +1 vs his +2. Your argument that you won't need the upgrade because you will transition to mutas does not hold neither, because you easily had more than 30 roaches

just my 2 (3) cents ok
50 pts Copper League
Vedeynevin
Profile Joined February 2015
United States431 Posts
August 02 2016 15:25 GMT
#130
Is this series still happening?
ChapatiyaqPTSM
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1887 Posts
August 02 2016 16:06 GMT
#131
Yeah, PiG has been busy with casting, he was at IEM Shanghai last week, DH Valencia and the SC2 community summit two weeks before that. I'm sure he'll get back to the dailies once he has more time.
LiquipediaBoy, these pretzels are makin' me thirsty.
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 10:25:39
August 04 2016 10:24 GMT
#132
On July 29 2016 23:55 imp42 wrote:
Hey PiG, nice work!

> If you feel like I say something that's not correct, challenge me on it!

You have mentioned in your videos you don't always like getting upgrades. E.g. for roaches in ZvZ (episode 2 I think).
I am not sure this is good advice for the majority of players for the 3 following reasons:

- Lower players (I'd say easily up to diamond) often float the minerals and gas that is required for the upgrade. It's just as ridiculous not getting the upgrade as witnessing a player cancelling a structure to build another one (just like the pros, wow!) when he has enough resources to let the first one finish AND build the second one.

- Even if you spend your resources perfectly, the first upgrade costs about as much as one ravager or one muta. You advocate not getting the upgrade but carelessly throw away roaches for a distraction and lose mutas due to bad micro (as we all do). Keep in mind that upgrades are a very apm-friendly way to get an advantage (it only takes 2 clicks). Having suboptimal micro indicates apm is a limiting factor for you = upgrades help you

- it is rather easy to calculate the point where an upgrade is worth it by looking at how many units profit from it. Obviously in a 30 roaches vs 30 roaches battle the +1 attack roaches will dish out an additional 30 damage per attack turn. That is more or less the equivalent of 2 roaches. Now the argument that you can delay the upgrading until you have a large army does not really hold because you will then behind compared to the enemy army. So by the time upgrades actually matter you will have +1 vs his +2. Your argument that you won't need the upgrade because you will transition to mutas does not hold neither, because you easily had more than 30 roaches

just my 2 (3) cents ok


Yep I always welcome criticism and debate. I'm a bit rushed right now but here's a quick response, will return later with more.

Upgrades are always situational. I often abdicate not RUSHING upgrades, especially double upgrades because far too many players try to do too much at once, too early in the game so it's not a safe way to progress.



Likewise if you're going for a timing attack like the roach style ZvZ in ep #2 going for upgrades doesn't make a lot of sense. You definitely can choose to add an evo after your push but it's not going to kick in for a long time and so it doesn't mesh with my personal preference of swapping into mutas. In the prion replay I forget my spire which is why it's ridiculously late.

You have to remember that you want to be direct and focused in your play - just because a player is a bit poor at spending their money doesn't mean they should just get an evo chamber to help spend money every game. If you're going for a big attack that contributes nothing to the attack and drains resources WAY before it actually kicks in. A player should be focusing on executing that all-in better. It's not hard to spend your money when being aggressive.

That's the other thing you have to take into account. Upgrades are an expenditure that takes a huge time to kick in. it's not just the cost of an evo chamber an upgrade - it's that cost several minutes before it has ANY effect on the game. So whilst with a standard macro play you always want to get upgrades, with all-in and very aggressive plays you usually want to delay those so you can hit as hard as possible. Ofc if I wanted to stay on roach/hydra/lurker in that prion game I could go for the delayed upgrades after the early pushes, but if you're going to swap into mutas it's questionable whether it's worth it - and so is very situational.

Upgrade investment is never simple. It's something that always has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. The few blanket statements I throw out usually are:

Only invest in upgrades when you're playing for a later stage of the game.

Stop taking double upgrades at 4:30 or earlier whilst teching at the same time! Delay them till after 5:00. The Exception is when you have full information of a very passive opposing build

Don't invest in late upgrades after doing an attack unless you plan to stay on that composition for a long time. Example: no point going into roach upgrades if you plan to swap into mutas quite fast

On August 03 2016 00:25 Vedeynevin wrote:
Is this series still happening?


Show tomorrow on uThermal's 3-rax reaper that smashed Snute/Elazer at Shanghai! Lots of travel this past month so not too many shows but should be back in full swing this whole month.
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
August 05 2016 05:03 GMT
#133
The PiG Daily #38 - uThermal’s 3-rax reaper TvZ



Replays: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/512267-iem-shanghai-replaypack#1

Show Notes

+ Show Spoiler +

Alternate defence:
<-- defending with queen/ling/spine
^Probably doesn’t work on some maps/or vs the very best pros. Not sure if it works vs the proxy

Apotheosis

Immediate scv crosses the map
No scv production
14seconds - 2nd scv crosses (this is a very long rush map)
16s - add 1 scv
Barracks + gas asp
@150 minerals 2nd barracks
Add 2 scvs
@100% rax - 3rd rax + reaper
2nd gas
NO ORBITAL
@100% 2nd rax - scv goes to build bunker
Total of 15 scvs

Micro:
Always aim to lose 0 reapers
Focus fire as much as possible
Grenades to zone
Also to punish retreating units
Let some units come forward and knock back the other ones
Knock queens/roaches off creep so you can snipe them
Rotate to abuse the ramp
Whenever they’re forced to engage on that ramp you can abuse them

Reaction:
Perfect early response from Snute
Immediate roach warren
Lings dance back and forth on creep to buy time
Dodge bombs

Later response messed up
Tanked too many bombs
No need to chase the reapers off creep just have to keep buying time and dodging bombs
Vs this super fast proxy version it’s ok to build a spine or two to help support if you’re gas starved. Extra queens is ok too.
Once you start losing units it can spiral very fast

Frozen temple free win!



Now the non-proxy version vs Elazer/violet

Replay vs violet galactic process

Standard barracks gas
17 2nd rax
18 3rd rax
20 2nd gas
Orbital after 2nd reaper starts
Just 1 more scv produced after orbital until CC goes down this game - but often adds 1-2 more during all this.

The extra economy from the constant scv production at the start makes a huge difference.

~4:00/12 reapers - tech lab + factory + 2xreactors
Straight into starport for double medivac marine stim pressure
5:20/57 supply - 2xebay
6:00/70 supply - 3rd gas
85 supply/7:00/as you push out - 3rd CC
Steadily add armoury, 2xrax, and then 3xrax as you have the money

Hit with stim medivacs to keep up pressure and multiprong with the reapers for potentially devastating damage

Response:

Elazer builds too many lings, interrupting his drones too much
Doesn’t drone after them either - sitting on 22 drones for wayyyyy 2 long - should have saturated his natural fully before roaches.
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
August 08 2016 08:52 GMT
#134
The PiG Daily #39 - Prism Counterattack PvT -



Show Notes

+ Show Spoiler +
Most of this show was planned in my head so not many notes.

Prism Counterattack PvT - shutting down aggression and keeping Terran on the backfoot

This is a very specific response to gas-first pressure expands where the Terran usually hits a very sharp pressure at 4:00, sometimes from 2 directions whilst expanding behind it. Due to the fast factory + starport, unit production (rather than infrastructure) and fast expand - the Terran will struggle very hard if you 1) Shut down his pressure and 2) counter-attack with a warp prism immediately.

Not an all-in, but you can choose to all-in off it and it’s very hard to stop.

Even just as a middling pressure you can always find some damage, put on huge pressure and pin the Terran back for a long time whilst you head for a slightly delayed macro transition.

2 parts

Part 1 - defending whatever comes your way

Shutting down fast 4:00 2-pronged attacks/widow mine drops

Drogo stopping 1-base allin on frozen temple
No natural
Adds immortal - kinda special for this push, but great vs any prolonged 1-base play

Showtimes first replay vs Masa defending early pressure cleanly -

Part 2 - Counter-pressuring and controlling the pace of the game

Sejong game
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-09 11:34:36
August 09 2016 11:34 GMT
#135
The PiG Daily #40 - Byun's G9 Comeback vs Solar!



Don't want to give out reps on this one since it's from subbing to Basetrade, but you can watch the full series on their Youtube soon: https://www.youtube.com/user/MapControlCO
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
August 09 2016 14:05 GMT
#136
Thanks PiG! Finally learned how to do control group stealing because of your video! I missed this week's ICYFAR though will try again next time!
When cats speak, mice listen.
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
August 10 2016 07:35 GMT
#137
PiG, could you make a summary video of the current situation for zerg in LoTV? Basic builds, tips and tricks? As a returning player, I think that would be awesome!

You should also make it for the other races of course, but let's do the most important one first :p
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
August 10 2016 09:44 GMT
#138
The PiG Daily #41 - “No Secrets” ICYFAR



Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
August 11 2016 10:54 GMT
#139
The PiG Daily #42 - What If? Wednesdays! PvZ - FeaR vs Namshar



Namshar vs Fear reps: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0suoovMS9qxdkRtNFdfRk9vU0E
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1003 Posts
August 15 2016 11:16 GMT
#140
The PiG Daily #43 - True vs Polt Game 1 ZvT analysis (WCS Summer Finals)



Replays: https://owncloud.dreamhack.se/s/UghGBKJodnJHTHM
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
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