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On April 22 2018 11:33 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 11:15 lestye wrote:Re: Darling Episode 15 + Show Spoiler +Didn't he link up with her earlier.... I recall him linking up and then going limp once combat actually started? Using that memory as reference, I think he can link up if he's just moving and not doing anything too technical or combative.
Or am I thinking of some other combination. + Show Spoiler +
They linked and immediately broke apart when they started to move. Ichigo entered rampage mode out of frustration. Would have liked if Ichigo went rampage mode too when moving Hiro to Zero2 or at least let the squad go "wait wtf" about it.
edit: On second thought I guesssss I can live with it, they have stated the pilots need to be in harmony of sorts and Ichigo have now fully accepted Hiro wants Zero2. But meh it just feels so cheap.
+ Show Spoiler +lmao, i like the compromise "ok, i could have accepted it, under the contingency the mech moved like that QWOP flash game
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On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 03:43 Slaughter wrote:
Franxx was really strong this week. like... the last 2 weeks as well?  And people are hating on it Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here.
+ Show Spoiler +That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
On April 23 2018 02:27 Nezgar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 21:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:[quote] like... the last 2 weeks as well? And people are hating on it Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. On April 22 2018 07:11 Slaughter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The core conflict was pretty realistic imo. The rest of the crew don't know 02 well and have only neutral at best impressions of her from previous rumors of her plus her attitude towards them. Then they see Hiro put in the hospital with strangulation marks around his neck. Yea I wouldn't want to let them see each other either for a while. Going from 13 to 15 would be silly, the only thing you could argue is that they could have extended the disconnect between Hiro and 02 and not have it resolved in 15. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +If they had just gone from the "they remember who each other is" at the end of episode 13 straight to the "Hiro grabs 02 and shatters her long horns" from the end of episode 15 and merged those (or made it the same scene), not much would have been lost: She strangles him, he remembers who she is, grabs her horns, says his "you're the girl with the picture book... my darling" line, her horns shatter and they finally embrace each other.
The only development in episode 14 and 15 in terms of character relationships is that Ichigo finally (after like 10 too many episodes) realizes that she has no chance with Hiro. What else would have been lost there and why would that be silly? + Show Spoiler +I think there's a difference between "riding with her comes with complications. Such as the thing on your chest and your health in general getting worse but she's not out to kill you" like it was portrayed in that episode you mention and her literally trying to kill him in the later episodes.
That's the point, it's not that she's a hulking, big girl who occasionaly bruises him without the intent to do so. She literally was out to kill him in the later episodes and I think that makes a big difference.
If it's really just what you mentioned I'd say that's kinda okay and people can talk that through, which is what we saw the first 10 or so episodes: The kids kind of scared of her, not sure what's going on and if they can trust her but in the end they're willing to let them talk to each other because they don't think it's malicious and it's his decision.
But then EP 13 and 14 happened and it becomes malicious with her intend on killing him. Not as a byproduct of riding with her or anything he was fine with, just straight up killing him for the purpose to further her goal.
I'd say in that situation, if you say
a) is certain death for him (not letting him ride with her and he's not able to ride with anyone else)
b) is certain death for him as well (letting him be with her)
I'd probably still try to get him away from her and try to work something out. A is obviously not good, but in the same way doing heroin isn't good. Sure you're going to die but if I see someone currently getting strangled (because for some reason that helps against his heroin addiction) I'd still first try to do something about the strangling. And then try and work something out from there.
And I think that's what Ichigos train of though was. She clearly got him away from the immediate death threat and then mentioned that she'll find a way that he'll be able to ride with someone else, basicly saying she'll deal with the other problem as well. Wether that's possible is another question but seems reasonable to me to first get the immediate deaththreat out of the way and then think about the other one once you're done with that. + Show Spoiler +Well, one of the "complications" of riding with her was certain death for everyone up until that point. As far as she knew, he was going to die at their 3rd ride together and yet we didn't see her making such a big drama out of it.
Episode 15 was similar in that regard. Ichigo from episode 14 would have picked him up after his training unit crashed and brought him back home instead of delivering him to 02. What changed between episode 14 and 15 for Ichigo?
There was no scene of Hiro explaining to her why talking to and riding with 02 would be alright now. So there seems to be a bit of inconsistency regarding her character - or episode 14 was just made up bullshit for the sake of additional drama.
I honestly disagree with your assessment of the situation. The choice there seem to be:
1. Certain death at the hand of the organisation. Nothing suggests that she would be able to find a way that he can ride with someone else. The scientists know that he cannot ride with someone else properly and they were about to ice him during episode 1 before 02 showed up. The kids kinda know already that this is what happens with the people who are incapable of riding the Franxx (we had a few scenes regarding that)
2. Possible death at the hand of 02. True, she intended to kill him, but it could just as well have been a short outburst of insanity. And both the audience and Hiro know that he could have reached 02 and resolved the problem if only he could have talked to her.
Again, talking to each other tends to be a thing that characters should do - and would do in such a situation. The fact that Ichigo never even gave him the chance to explain himself and why he thinks that talking to 02 will solve the problem makes that episode so terrible. This is not what reasonable human beings tend to do. Or would you not let your guyfriend at least try to explain that situation and rather just tell him to shut the fuck up and that you love him? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - unless you have serious mental health issues.
Aside from that, Hiro himself said multiple times that he is dead anyway and that he'd ride with 02 even if that would be certain death for him. That's why the whole team was kinda alright with him riding with 02 up until that point.
And that is just the in-character stuff. The writers could easily have changed a small detail here and there to shift it in either direction, but they didn't and went ahead with it in that cliche way of not letting the characters talk to each other for no reason at all. That episode 15 rendered episode 14 completely irrelevant is just the icing on the cake here.
No. Just no.
+ Show Spoiler [why ok now] +
The entire planation was about to be destroyed. Come on....
+ Show Spoiler [@Ichigo] +
If one your best friends shows up at your door bloody, battered and broken and you finally put two and two together your first reaction is not, "oh they should talk and we should hear whatever shitty reason and plea for forgiveness the scum can come up with". First you are angry and concerned, then once you know she's safe and in good hands of professionals, you feel guild and hate youself for not seeing it earlier and then rage takes over and the only reason you are not calling up your mutual friends to do some good old boot polka on him is someone manage to calm you down since what she needs right now is not have a friend end up in prison for assault. Until you've seen someone dear to you beaten bloody you dont know true frustration and rage in it's classical sense of the word.
The only thing you could point your finger at is Ichigo kissing him but I honestly dont know how you react if you are in love with your friend. But I could definitely understand acting out in frustration "why are you with that scum when I will never hurt you and I'm right here!".
This is not an obnoxious cliche, the victim in a depressive state of mind trying to accept the abuse is very common, this situation is sadly true to life and Ichigo's response is very real and anyone that tries to find a reason to justify an abusive relationship should just fuck off.
Ichigo is ready to shoulder Hiro's expected anger for breaking them apart and support him in whatever way she can. The hate she got is from people that have no fucking clue how it feels like to be in her situation. Ichigo is a relatable, genuine and real hero.
+ Show Spoiler [In context of the show] +The kids and we dont know if pilots incapable of riding with partners at their current location are actually terminated. After Naomi's transportation Ichigo tell Hiro she survived the klaxosaur attack and is currently in care at the hospital there is no reason for the adults to give her treatment only to terminate her afterwards. Naomi's status as an asset is just she cant link with Hiro and it makes no sense for the adults to just kill off a pilot considering how many years it takes to train them (they haven't even graduated in first episode) because they cant link up with their current partner. The adults have already kept Hiro around for years after he stopped being able to link up with anyone. Ichigo and friends only reason to fear for his life is Zero2 not the adults. Ichigo genuinely believe she can with enough effort pair up with Hiro which turns out to be true and they are appearently really pretty fucking strong together - they fight equal and even overpower rampage mode Zero2 who had just shown she was capable of soloing hundreds of klaxosaurs. 1) Mitsuri know what Zero2 does to her partner and he even got an easy treatment. + Show Spoiler [canon (manga)] +her non-Hiro partners aside from the mental and physical hurt start to immediately and rapidly age. Mitsuri seemingly didn't age so either he's special too or she went easy on him. + Show Spoiler [manga quality] +it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- 2) They have seen how badly Mitsuri was hurt. 3) Ichigo has been warned by Zero2's former squad leader. 4) Finding some reason to accept being in an increasingly abusive relationship is why dead partners show up in statistics and research about such relationships.
On April 23 2018 02:48 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 11:33 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 11:15 lestye wrote:Re: Darling Episode 15 + Show Spoiler +Didn't he link up with her earlier.... I recall him linking up and then going limp once combat actually started? Using that memory as reference, I think he can link up if he's just moving and not doing anything too technical or combative.
Or am I thinking of some other combination. + Show Spoiler +
They linked and immediately broke apart when they started to move. Ichigo entered rampage mode out of frustration. Would have liked if Ichigo went rampage mode too when moving Hiro to Zero2 or at least let the squad go "wait wtf" about it.
edit: On second thought I guesssss I can live with it, they have stated the pilots need to be in harmony of sorts and Ichigo have now fully accepted Hiro wants Zero2. But meh it just feels so cheap.
+ Show Spoiler +lmao, i like the compromise "ok, i could have accepted it, under the contingency the mech moved like that QWOP flash game
Oh god. That would have been hilarious. :D + Show Spoiler [cant help but think] +
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The one thing I don't understand about that (the WASD thing)
+ Show Spoiler +is why he had to ride Ichigo in the first place to get to Zero2? Couldn't Goro+Ichigo just pilot and give him a ride? The Cockpit should be big enough so sit in there at the side, right? Or worst case scenario they carry him over.
That was kinda weird for me.
On the whole other thing we've been discussing, let's just agree to disagree on that. I don't see us getting anywhere anywhere with this. I disagree with your (Nezgars) assessment of the situation and quite frankly I'd probably act the same way she did in that situation given the information they had. Maybe that does make me the weird one
@above, on the manga:
it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.-
Yabuki Kentarou is a gift to us all. He isn't dragging anything down 
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On April 23 2018 04:02 Toadesstern wrote:The one thing I don't understand about that (the WASD thing) + Show Spoiler +is why he had to ride Ichigo in the first place to get to Zero2? Couldn't Goro+Ichigo just pilot and give him a ride? The Cockpit should be big enough so sit in there at the side, right? Or worst case scenario they carry him over.
That was kinda weird for me. On the whole other thing we've been discussing, let's just agree to disagree on that. I don't see us getting anywhere anywhere with this. I disagree with your (Nezgars) assessment of the situation and quite frankly I'd probably act the same way she did in that situation given the information they had. Maybe that does make me the weird one @above, on the manga: Show nested quote +it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- Yabuki Kentarou is a gift to us all. He isn't dragging anything down
It just feels so base at this point. Yabuki's art amazing and he had the chance to let his craftmanship be the focal point and not the nude girls (again again again).
+ Show Spoiler +
Yeah, it was pretty odd he had to ride and not just be carried there. I guess they could make some sort of excuse that the tech is so sensitive inside the cockpit there cant be more people there. It felt pretty forced they left Goro to chill in the battlefield to deliver him.
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On April 23 2018 08:43 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 04:02 Toadesstern wrote:The one thing I don't understand about that (the WASD thing) + Show Spoiler +is why he had to ride Ichigo in the first place to get to Zero2? Couldn't Goro+Ichigo just pilot and give him a ride? The Cockpit should be big enough so sit in there at the side, right? Or worst case scenario they carry him over.
That was kinda weird for me. On the whole other thing we've been discussing, let's just agree to disagree on that. I don't see us getting anywhere anywhere with this. I disagree with your (Nezgars) assessment of the situation and quite frankly I'd probably act the same way she did in that situation given the information they had. Maybe that does make me the weird one @above, on the manga: it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- Yabuki Kentarou is a gift to us all. He isn't dragging anything down It just feels so base at this point. Yabuki's art amazing and he had the chance to let his craftmanship be the focal point and not the nude girls (again again again). + Show Spoiler +
Yeah, it was pretty odd he had to ride and not just be carried there. I guess they could make some sort of excuse that the tech is so sensitive inside the cockpit there cant be more people there. It felt pretty forced they left Goro to chill in the battlefield to deliver him.
Regarding whether to ride or drive
+ Show Spoiler +I'm guessing the writers wanted an excuse to have Hiro mind-link with Ichigo in the cockpit to quickly wrap up her issues with the 002+Hiro relationship. Gotta clear up that drama before the plot pivots to bigger fish to fry.
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On April 23 2018 03:38 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 03:43 Slaughter wrote:
Franxx was really strong this week. like... the last 2 weeks as well? And people are hating on it Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 02:27 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 21:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:
[quote]
Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. On April 22 2018 07:11 Slaughter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The core conflict was pretty realistic imo. The rest of the crew don't know 02 well and have only neutral at best impressions of her from previous rumors of her plus her attitude towards them. Then they see Hiro put in the hospital with strangulation marks around his neck. Yea I wouldn't want to let them see each other either for a while. Going from 13 to 15 would be silly, the only thing you could argue is that they could have extended the disconnect between Hiro and 02 and not have it resolved in 15. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +If they had just gone from the "they remember who each other is" at the end of episode 13 straight to the "Hiro grabs 02 and shatters her long horns" from the end of episode 15 and merged those (or made it the same scene), not much would have been lost: She strangles him, he remembers who she is, grabs her horns, says his "you're the girl with the picture book... my darling" line, her horns shatter and they finally embrace each other.
The only development in episode 14 and 15 in terms of character relationships is that Ichigo finally (after like 10 too many episodes) realizes that she has no chance with Hiro. What else would have been lost there and why would that be silly? + Show Spoiler +I think there's a difference between "riding with her comes with complications. Such as the thing on your chest and your health in general getting worse but she's not out to kill you" like it was portrayed in that episode you mention and her literally trying to kill him in the later episodes.
That's the point, it's not that she's a hulking, big girl who occasionaly bruises him without the intent to do so. She literally was out to kill him in the later episodes and I think that makes a big difference.
If it's really just what you mentioned I'd say that's kinda okay and people can talk that through, which is what we saw the first 10 or so episodes: The kids kind of scared of her, not sure what's going on and if they can trust her but in the end they're willing to let them talk to each other because they don't think it's malicious and it's his decision.
But then EP 13 and 14 happened and it becomes malicious with her intend on killing him. Not as a byproduct of riding with her or anything he was fine with, just straight up killing him for the purpose to further her goal.
I'd say in that situation, if you say
a) is certain death for him (not letting him ride with her and he's not able to ride with anyone else)
b) is certain death for him as well (letting him be with her)
I'd probably still try to get him away from her and try to work something out. A is obviously not good, but in the same way doing heroin isn't good. Sure you're going to die but if I see someone currently getting strangled (because for some reason that helps against his heroin addiction) I'd still first try to do something about the strangling. And then try and work something out from there.
And I think that's what Ichigos train of though was. She clearly got him away from the immediate death threat and then mentioned that she'll find a way that he'll be able to ride with someone else, basicly saying she'll deal with the other problem as well. Wether that's possible is another question but seems reasonable to me to first get the immediate deaththreat out of the way and then think about the other one once you're done with that. + Show Spoiler +Well, one of the "complications" of riding with her was certain death for everyone up until that point. As far as she knew, he was going to die at their 3rd ride together and yet we didn't see her making such a big drama out of it.
Episode 15 was similar in that regard. Ichigo from episode 14 would have picked him up after his training unit crashed and brought him back home instead of delivering him to 02. What changed between episode 14 and 15 for Ichigo?
There was no scene of Hiro explaining to her why talking to and riding with 02 would be alright now. So there seems to be a bit of inconsistency regarding her character - or episode 14 was just made up bullshit for the sake of additional drama.
I honestly disagree with your assessment of the situation. The choice there seem to be:
1. Certain death at the hand of the organisation. Nothing suggests that she would be able to find a way that he can ride with someone else. The scientists know that he cannot ride with someone else properly and they were about to ice him during episode 1 before 02 showed up. The kids kinda know already that this is what happens with the people who are incapable of riding the Franxx (we had a few scenes regarding that)
2. Possible death at the hand of 02. True, she intended to kill him, but it could just as well have been a short outburst of insanity. And both the audience and Hiro know that he could have reached 02 and resolved the problem if only he could have talked to her.
Again, talking to each other tends to be a thing that characters should do - and would do in such a situation. The fact that Ichigo never even gave him the chance to explain himself and why he thinks that talking to 02 will solve the problem makes that episode so terrible. This is not what reasonable human beings tend to do. Or would you not let your guyfriend at least try to explain that situation and rather just tell him to shut the fuck up and that you love him? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - unless you have serious mental health issues.
Aside from that, Hiro himself said multiple times that he is dead anyway and that he'd ride with 02 even if that would be certain death for him. That's why the whole team was kinda alright with him riding with 02 up until that point.
And that is just the in-character stuff. The writers could easily have changed a small detail here and there to shift it in either direction, but they didn't and went ahead with it in that cliche way of not letting the characters talk to each other for no reason at all. That episode 15 rendered episode 14 completely irrelevant is just the icing on the cake here. No. Just no. + Show Spoiler [why ok now] +
The entire planation was about to be destroyed. Come on....
If one your best friends shows up at your door bloody, battered and broken and you finally put two and two together your first reaction is not, "oh they should talk and we should hear whatever shitty reason and plea for forgiveness the scum can come up with". First you are angry and concerned, then once you know she's safe and in good hands of professionals, you feel guild and hate youself for not seeing it earlier and then rage takes over and the only reason you are not calling up your mutual friends to do some good old boot polka on him is someone manage to calm you down since what she needs right now is not have a friend end up in prison for assault. Until you've seen someone dear to you beaten bloody you dont know true frustration and rage in it's classical sense of the word.
The only thing you could point your finger at is Ichigo kissing him but I honestly dont know how you react if you are in love with your friend. But I could definitely understand acting out in frustration "why are you with that scum when I will never hurt you and I'm right here!".
This is not an obnoxious cliche, the victim in a depressive state of mind trying to accept the abuse is very common, this situation is sadly true to life and Ichigo's response is very real and anyone that tries to find a reason to justify an abusive relationship should just fuck off.
Ichigo is ready to shoulder Hiro's expected anger for breaking them apart and support him in whatever way she can. The hate she got is from people that have no fucking clue how it feels like to be in her situation. Ichigo is a relatable, genuine and real hero.
The kids and we dont know if pilots incapable of riding with partners at their current location are actually terminated. After Naomi's transportation Ichigo tell Hiro she survived the klaxosaur attack and is currently in care at the hospital there is no reason for the adults to give her treatment only to terminate her afterwards. Naomi's status as an asset is just she cant link with Hiro and it makes no sense for the adults to just kill off a pilot considering how many years it takes to train them (they haven't even graduated in first episode) because they cant link up with their current partner. The adults have already kept Hiro around for years after he stopped being able to link up with anyone. Ichigo and friends only reason to fear for his life is Zero2 not the adults. Ichigo genuinely believe she can with enough effort pair up with Hiro which turns out to be true and they are appearently really pretty fucking strong together - they fight equal and even overpower rampage mode Zero2 who had just shown she was capable of soloing hundreds of klaxosaurs. 1) Mitsuri know what Zero2 does to her partner and he even got an easy treatment. + Show Spoiler [canon (manga)] +her non-Hiro partners aside from the mental and physical hurt start to immediately and rapidly age. Mitsuri seemingly didn't age so either he's special too or she went easy on him. + Show Spoiler [manga quality] +it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- 2) They have seen how badly Mitsuri was hurt. 3) Ichigo has been warned by Zero2's former squad leader. 4) Finding some reason to accept being in an increasingly abusive relationship is why dead partners show up in statistics and research about such relationships. Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 02:48 lestye wrote:On April 22 2018 11:33 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 11:15 lestye wrote:Re: Darling Episode 15 + Show Spoiler +Didn't he link up with her earlier.... I recall him linking up and then going limp once combat actually started? Using that memory as reference, I think he can link up if he's just moving and not doing anything too technical or combative.
Or am I thinking of some other combination. + Show Spoiler +
They linked and immediately broke apart when they started to move. Ichigo entered rampage mode out of frustration. Would have liked if Ichigo went rampage mode too when moving Hiro to Zero2 or at least let the squad go "wait wtf" about it.
edit: On second thought I guesssss I can live with it, they have stated the pilots need to be in harmony of sorts and Ichigo have now fully accepted Hiro wants Zero2. But meh it just feels so cheap.
+ Show Spoiler +lmao, i like the compromise "ok, i could have accepted it, under the contingency the mech moved like that QWOP flash game Oh god. That would have been hilarious. :D + Show Spoiler [cant help but think] +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8
+ Show Spoiler +
Comparing it to a domestic abuse case is really not the best comparison here and I don't appreciate it that you make it sound like I am arguing in favor of domestic abuse, even implying that the reason for me doing that is that I have never experienced the results of it. That's not just plain wrong but also a tad unfair, to say the least.
And it's not like he shows up at your door either. He didn't ask for anyone to mediate. He has a solution and that requires talking to his partner. Then you show up, don't listen to what he has to say because you obviously know best anyway and try to get into his pants. Because the reason for interfering is not that you are genuinely concerned about his well-being, but because you are obsessed with him and want him for yourself.
It is not about a plea of forgiveness. It is about understanding the situation and all it takes for Hiro to resolve it is to say a single sentence to 02. Hiro is not in a depressed state of mind either. He knows exactly what is happening, understands the situation and knows what he has to do... if only his friends would let him explain himself. But they are, like you, too busy being condescending and prefer to act on suspicion instead. That is, in my eyes, irrational hysteria.
And where the domestic abuse allegory really falls apart is that in comparison to it, Hiro doesn't really have a choice there. It's either ride or die and he absolutely knows it.
I am pretty sure he had scenes where this has been discussed and where they have realized that riders don't become adults, failed trainees don't get carted off into some resort, etc. I am pretty sure that the thing about Naomi is made up to set his mind at ease and they all kinda realize it.
Him not being able to ride with anybody was one of the big things of the show. That's also why I call bullshit on the Ichigo+Hiro ride in episode 15. It didn't make any sense and seemed like a cheap crutch to let Ichigo finally see that she stands no chance with Hiro. If he could just ride with her and battle against 02 whenever they felt like it, the entire premise of the show falls apart... which is another reason why episode 14 and 15 were pretty bad. It's flawed writing piled on top of cheap plot devices, sitting comfortably between inconsistent characters. That giant sandwich of bullshit should have best been left out entirely.
And I am pretty sure that the plantation being in danger is not why Ichigo did a sudden 180 and magically linked up with Hiro to deliver him to his "abusive girlfriend".
But I think I am with Toad here. I can agree to disagree on what would have been a reasonable way to react in the kind of situation and arguing about it is unlikely to convince either side. Regardless of that, the "two ships passing in the night" cliche was super cheap and certainly not good writing.
I still stand by my point that skipping episode 14 and going straight to the end of episode 15 would have saved us all a lot of unnecessary drama and bad writing.
|
Goddamit I screwed up and fully caught up on Souma.
+ Show Spoiler +the reveal of Souma’s dad to Erina was alright. It sufficed my expectations
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On April 23 2018 13:27 Nezgar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 03:38 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:[quote] like... the last 2 weeks as well? And people are hating on it Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. + Show Spoiler +That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
On April 23 2018 02:27 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 21:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:
[quote]
What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. On April 22 2018 07:11 Slaughter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The core conflict was pretty realistic imo. The rest of the crew don't know 02 well and have only neutral at best impressions of her from previous rumors of her plus her attitude towards them. Then they see Hiro put in the hospital with strangulation marks around his neck. Yea I wouldn't want to let them see each other either for a while. Going from 13 to 15 would be silly, the only thing you could argue is that they could have extended the disconnect between Hiro and 02 and not have it resolved in 15. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +If they had just gone from the "they remember who each other is" at the end of episode 13 straight to the "Hiro grabs 02 and shatters her long horns" from the end of episode 15 and merged those (or made it the same scene), not much would have been lost: She strangles him, he remembers who she is, grabs her horns, says his "you're the girl with the picture book... my darling" line, her horns shatter and they finally embrace each other.
The only development in episode 14 and 15 in terms of character relationships is that Ichigo finally (after like 10 too many episodes) realizes that she has no chance with Hiro. What else would have been lost there and why would that be silly? + Show Spoiler +I think there's a difference between "riding with her comes with complications. Such as the thing on your chest and your health in general getting worse but she's not out to kill you" like it was portrayed in that episode you mention and her literally trying to kill him in the later episodes.
That's the point, it's not that she's a hulking, big girl who occasionaly bruises him without the intent to do so. She literally was out to kill him in the later episodes and I think that makes a big difference.
If it's really just what you mentioned I'd say that's kinda okay and people can talk that through, which is what we saw the first 10 or so episodes: The kids kind of scared of her, not sure what's going on and if they can trust her but in the end they're willing to let them talk to each other because they don't think it's malicious and it's his decision.
But then EP 13 and 14 happened and it becomes malicious with her intend on killing him. Not as a byproduct of riding with her or anything he was fine with, just straight up killing him for the purpose to further her goal.
I'd say in that situation, if you say
a) is certain death for him (not letting him ride with her and he's not able to ride with anyone else)
b) is certain death for him as well (letting him be with her)
I'd probably still try to get him away from her and try to work something out. A is obviously not good, but in the same way doing heroin isn't good. Sure you're going to die but if I see someone currently getting strangled (because for some reason that helps against his heroin addiction) I'd still first try to do something about the strangling. And then try and work something out from there.
And I think that's what Ichigos train of though was. She clearly got him away from the immediate death threat and then mentioned that she'll find a way that he'll be able to ride with someone else, basicly saying she'll deal with the other problem as well. Wether that's possible is another question but seems reasonable to me to first get the immediate deaththreat out of the way and then think about the other one once you're done with that. + Show Spoiler +Well, one of the "complications" of riding with her was certain death for everyone up until that point. As far as she knew, he was going to die at their 3rd ride together and yet we didn't see her making such a big drama out of it.
Episode 15 was similar in that regard. Ichigo from episode 14 would have picked him up after his training unit crashed and brought him back home instead of delivering him to 02. What changed between episode 14 and 15 for Ichigo?
There was no scene of Hiro explaining to her why talking to and riding with 02 would be alright now. So there seems to be a bit of inconsistency regarding her character - or episode 14 was just made up bullshit for the sake of additional drama.
I honestly disagree with your assessment of the situation. The choice there seem to be:
1. Certain death at the hand of the organisation. Nothing suggests that she would be able to find a way that he can ride with someone else. The scientists know that he cannot ride with someone else properly and they were about to ice him during episode 1 before 02 showed up. The kids kinda know already that this is what happens with the people who are incapable of riding the Franxx (we had a few scenes regarding that)
2. Possible death at the hand of 02. True, she intended to kill him, but it could just as well have been a short outburst of insanity. And both the audience and Hiro know that he could have reached 02 and resolved the problem if only he could have talked to her.
Again, talking to each other tends to be a thing that characters should do - and would do in such a situation. The fact that Ichigo never even gave him the chance to explain himself and why he thinks that talking to 02 will solve the problem makes that episode so terrible. This is not what reasonable human beings tend to do. Or would you not let your guyfriend at least try to explain that situation and rather just tell him to shut the fuck up and that you love him? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - unless you have serious mental health issues.
Aside from that, Hiro himself said multiple times that he is dead anyway and that he'd ride with 02 even if that would be certain death for him. That's why the whole team was kinda alright with him riding with 02 up until that point.
And that is just the in-character stuff. The writers could easily have changed a small detail here and there to shift it in either direction, but they didn't and went ahead with it in that cliche way of not letting the characters talk to each other for no reason at all. That episode 15 rendered episode 14 completely irrelevant is just the icing on the cake here. No. Just no. + Show Spoiler [why ok now] +
The entire planation was about to be destroyed. Come on....
If one your best friends shows up at your door bloody, battered and broken and you finally put two and two together your first reaction is not, "oh they should talk and we should hear whatever shitty reason and plea for forgiveness the scum can come up with". First you are angry and concerned, then once you know she's safe and in good hands of professionals, you feel guild and hate youself for not seeing it earlier and then rage takes over and the only reason you are not calling up your mutual friends to do some good old boot polka on him is someone manage to calm you down since what she needs right now is not have a friend end up in prison for assault. Until you've seen someone dear to you beaten bloody you dont know true frustration and rage in it's classical sense of the word.
The only thing you could point your finger at is Ichigo kissing him but I honestly dont know how you react if you are in love with your friend. But I could definitely understand acting out in frustration "why are you with that scum when I will never hurt you and I'm right here!".
This is not an obnoxious cliche, the victim in a depressive state of mind trying to accept the abuse is very common, this situation is sadly true to life and Ichigo's response is very real and anyone that tries to find a reason to justify an abusive relationship should just fuck off.
Ichigo is ready to shoulder Hiro's expected anger for breaking them apart and support him in whatever way she can. The hate she got is from people that have no fucking clue how it feels like to be in her situation. Ichigo is a relatable, genuine and real hero.
The kids and we dont know if pilots incapable of riding with partners at their current location are actually terminated. After Naomi's transportation Ichigo tell Hiro she survived the klaxosaur attack and is currently in care at the hospital there is no reason for the adults to give her treatment only to terminate her afterwards. Naomi's status as an asset is just she cant link with Hiro and it makes no sense for the adults to just kill off a pilot considering how many years it takes to train them (they haven't even graduated in first episode) because they cant link up with their current partner. The adults have already kept Hiro around for years after he stopped being able to link up with anyone. Ichigo and friends only reason to fear for his life is Zero2 not the adults. Ichigo genuinely believe she can with enough effort pair up with Hiro which turns out to be true and they are appearently really pretty fucking strong together - they fight equal and even overpower rampage mode Zero2 who had just shown she was capable of soloing hundreds of klaxosaurs. 1) Mitsuri know what Zero2 does to her partner and he even got an easy treatment. + Show Spoiler [canon (manga)] +her non-Hiro partners aside from the mental and physical hurt start to immediately and rapidly age. Mitsuri seemingly didn't age so either he's special too or she went easy on him. + Show Spoiler [manga quality] +it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- 2) They have seen how badly Mitsuri was hurt. 3) Ichigo has been warned by Zero2's former squad leader. 4) Finding some reason to accept being in an increasingly abusive relationship is why dead partners show up in statistics and research about such relationships. On April 23 2018 02:48 lestye wrote:On April 22 2018 11:33 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 11:15 lestye wrote:Re: Darling Episode 15 + Show Spoiler +Didn't he link up with her earlier.... I recall him linking up and then going limp once combat actually started? Using that memory as reference, I think he can link up if he's just moving and not doing anything too technical or combative.
Or am I thinking of some other combination. + Show Spoiler +
They linked and immediately broke apart when they started to move. Ichigo entered rampage mode out of frustration. Would have liked if Ichigo went rampage mode too when moving Hiro to Zero2 or at least let the squad go "wait wtf" about it.
edit: On second thought I guesssss I can live with it, they have stated the pilots need to be in harmony of sorts and Ichigo have now fully accepted Hiro wants Zero2. But meh it just feels so cheap.
+ Show Spoiler +lmao, i like the compromise "ok, i could have accepted it, under the contingency the mech moved like that QWOP flash game Oh god. That would have been hilarious. :D + Show Spoiler [cant help but think] +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8 + Show Spoiler +
Comparing it to a domestic abuse case is really not the best comparison here and I don't appreciate it that you make it sound like I am arguing in favor of domestic abuse, even implying that the reason for me doing that is that I have never experienced the results of it. That's not just plain wrong but also a tad unfair, to say the least.
And it's not like he shows up at your door either. He didn't ask for anyone to mediate. He has a solution and that requires talking to his partner. Then you show up, don't listen to what he has to say because you obviously know best anyway and try to get into his pants. Because the reason for interfering is not that you are genuinely concerned about his well-being, but because you are obsessed with him and want him for yourself.
It is not about a plea of forgiveness. It is about understanding the situation and all it takes for Hiro to resolve it is to say a single sentence to 02. Hiro is not in a depressed state of mind either. He knows exactly what is happening, understands the situation and knows what he has to do... if only his friends would let him explain himself. But they are, like you, too busy being condescending and prefer to act on suspicion instead. That is, in my eyes, irrational hysteria.
And where the domestic abuse allegory really falls apart is that in comparison to it, Hiro doesn't really have a choice there. It's either ride or die and he absolutely knows it.
I am pretty sure he had scenes where this has been discussed and where they have realized that riders don't become adults, failed trainees don't get carted off into some resort, etc. I am pretty sure that the thing about Naomi is made up to set his mind at ease and they all kinda realize it.
Him not being able to ride with anybody was one of the big things of the show. That's also why I call bullshit on the Ichigo+Hiro ride in episode 15. It didn't make any sense and seemed like a cheap crutch to let Ichigo finally see that she stands no chance with Hiro. If he could just ride with her and battle against 02 whenever they felt like it, the entire premise of the show falls apart... which is another reason why episode 14 and 15 were pretty bad. It's flawed writing piled on top of cheap plot devices, sitting comfortably between inconsistent characters. That giant sandwich of bullshit should have best been left out entirely.
And I am pretty sure that the plantation being in danger is not why Ichigo did a sudden 180 and magically linked up with Hiro to deliver him to his "abusive girlfriend".
But I think I am with Toad here. I can agree to disagree on what would have been a reasonable way to react in the kind of situation and arguing about it is unlikely to convince either side. Regardless of that, the "two ships passing in the night" cliche was super cheap and certainly not good writing. I still stand by my point that skipping episode 14 and going straight to the end of episode 15 would have saved us all a lot of unnecessary drama and bad writing.
I re-read my post. I got way too heated up about the subject, tunneled into what's just an analogy and sort of lost track of what you guys was actually saying. I'm too sensitive, stopped thinking straight and lashed out without reason. I hope you can accept my apology. Sorry.
I will still stand by Ichigo doing the right thing and her lowkey being the best girl for doing what she did.
Personally I felt like episode 14-15 was one episode too short. Not just that they skipped "the real episode 15" like I posted earlier, but the whole thing just felt rushed. If they had just devoted one more episode's worth of time to cut out the shortcuts and investigate more what the seperation actually would do to the "Jian birds" + Show Spoiler +would have liked to see Zero2 break even more, would have made their reunion all that much more impactful
+ Show Spoiler [Hiro's mental state] +
I disagree with Hiro not being in a depressive state of mind, he has been almost the entire show. He has no sense of self-worth, bleak view on everything and he's indirectly suicidal. He's a Jian bird, without Zero2 he feels no reason to live.
+ Show Spoiler [Naomi's fate] +
She's probably dead, but it could be interesting if she have turned into "fuel" for the 9s. We've seen that the guy leader can act as the pistil and he seems to be a hybrid like Zero9. Yeah, it'd be soap drama levels of plot twist. But it'd be intersting to see Hiro's reaction if he met an aged and drained Naomi.
The story has been has walking a delicate line between a coming of age and mech action. Before Zero2 arrived the kids were living an innocent life as if they were just small children (that could drive mechs) and Zero2's arrival started their mental puberty so to speak; angst, jealousy, sexuality and love all seemed like new feelings to them. Devoting a few episodes to let the kids finally for real grow up would in my opinion have been more interesting than rushing straight into pure action like it seems like we're getting the next few weeks. Sort of like how season 1 of Tokyo Ghoul + Show Spoiler +culminating in Kaneki's eventual total mental breakdown. Still bummed they skipped Kaneki's brutal "since you're her brother I'll only half kill you" scene. >:O
On April 23 2018 16:43 Emnjay808 wrote:Goddamit I screwed up and fully caught up on Souma. + Show Spoiler +the reveal of Souma’s dad to Erina was alright. It sufficed my expectations
Haven't watched the anime yet, how far have they come in comparison to the manga?
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On April 23 2018 20:35 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 13:27 Nezgar wrote:On April 23 2018 03:38 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:On April 22 2018 04:08 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:03 Unleashing wrote:
[quote]
Episode 14 of franxx was anything but strong. It relied on one of the weakest writing crutches known to man to generate drama. What was that? There wasn't really anything weak about it. If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. + Show Spoiler +That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
On April 23 2018 02:27 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 21:54 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 18:48 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 07:21 Toadesstern wrote:On April 22 2018 06:40 Nezgar wrote:On April 22 2018 05:02 Slaughter wrote:On April 22 2018 04:20 Unleashing wrote:[quote] If your drama relies on + Show Spoiler +them somehow leaving their rooms to see eachother at exactly the same time and missing eachother in the process it's pretty fucking shit drama. They couldn't write anything actually compelling and decided to rely on something this lazy. It's one of the laziest and weakest crutches a writer can rely on if they want to generate drama. If i had to rate that episode it'd be like 3/10 at the very highest. What a poorly written episode. Then again, going straight from the best episode to the worst back to back is sort of impressive in its own right. Didn't really rely on it. More or less just used it as a trigger. It was going to happen eventually with how unstable she was. Then why use that incredibly cheap device if the writers didn't have to rely on it? Regardless of why they did it, it's still fair to judge them for using it. I'd go even farther than Unleashing in this case: + Show Spoiler [Franxxx ep 14] +Not only did 02 and Hiro miss each other while going for the other's location, the rest of the team was somehow absolutely clueless that this was going on. From Ichigo's "I'll just leave this knife with you for no reason at all", to Hiro escaping with his bed sheets and said knife, to each party missing each other on their way... everything about that whole situation felt like an attempt to cramp as many bad cliches in there as possible.
For me, that is the definition of terrible and lazy writing.
That aside, the core conflict there is absolutely silly as well and it cannot be called logical or reasonable at all. The two partners voiced the need to talk to each other multiple times and it's very clear that this was a thing that needed talking about. None of the rest of the team had any idea what was going on inside the cockpit, so they should have had a need to understand that situation as well. But I guess this is another one of those absolutely obnoxious anime cliches; a conflict easily resolved if only the characters involved would talk to each other.
What makes this worse is the fact that everything that was happening in the show up until that moment was pointing to this plot development. Finally the mystery is resolved, the characters can talk to each other and set off on their shared journey... and then episode 14 happens. I'll be honest here: I was incredibly frustrated and mad as well, especially because I knew that this shitty drama is going to be resolved in a few episodes anyway. It's a waste of time and absolutely transparent, coming at the worst time possible. Episode 13 gets people excited and in the "here we go" mood and then the writers essentially punch them in the face for no reason at all. So yeah, I think a 3/10 rating for episode 14 is very generous here. It was poorly written, poorly timed and poorly executed. They used episode 14 to set up a needless drama that gets resolved completely in episode 15 anyway. The show as a whole would've improved if they had just cut both episodes and went from 13 to the end of 15 straight away. so if you had a guyfriend who literally ended up in hospital almost dying because of an abusive girlfriend, twice at that, who is still in love with her and then tells you "it's not really her fault for hurting me. Just let me talk with her to resolve this mess!" you'd be sitting next to him in the hospital and go "you know what? Yeah, you two should talk things through!" ? Like people already mentioned it's only made worse by the fact that she literally is a monster, or non-human of some sort that is literally able to fight off armed soldiers (as long as we're talking a hand full) with her inhuman strength+speed. I find that to be laughable. I wouldn't let my friend close to that girl either. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +Except we already had an episode for that when she started to corrupt him and then it turned out to be somewhat fine. That episode already established pretty clearly that he is aware of the danger that he is in and that he accepts it... because the alternative to accepting that risk means to get iced by the organisation since he is absolutely useless without 02. And most of the kids realize that, too. That was a very major element of the story up until this point.
When my guyfriend has the choice between literally dying and a relationship that physically harms him from time to time, I'd be a monster to suggest that he should just die instead, simply because I am jealous of the person that he get's to be with. That is not love or having his best interest in mind, it's obsessive and possessive behavior and much worse than what 02 is doing. The kids didn't even let either Hiro nor 02 even voice their objections.
In the example you mentioned: Imagine that his girlfriend is hulking beast of a woman that occasionally bruises him. You suggest that the reasonable response there is to forbid them from seeing each other without even trying to understand what exactly happened there. Even worse, you forbid both sides from even trying to explain the situation and talk to each other or the group to dispel any misconceptions. Worse still, upon him being discharged from the hospital, the first thing you do is walk up to him and kiss him. That is not reasonable behavior. If that kind of stuff makes her the "lowkey best girl" of the show, there's something seriously wrong here. On April 22 2018 07:11 Slaughter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The core conflict was pretty realistic imo. The rest of the crew don't know 02 well and have only neutral at best impressions of her from previous rumors of her plus her attitude towards them. Then they see Hiro put in the hospital with strangulation marks around his neck. Yea I wouldn't want to let them see each other either for a while. Going from 13 to 15 would be silly, the only thing you could argue is that they could have extended the disconnect between Hiro and 02 and not have it resolved in 15. + Show Spoiler [Franxxx again] +If they had just gone from the "they remember who each other is" at the end of episode 13 straight to the "Hiro grabs 02 and shatters her long horns" from the end of episode 15 and merged those (or made it the same scene), not much would have been lost: She strangles him, he remembers who she is, grabs her horns, says his "you're the girl with the picture book... my darling" line, her horns shatter and they finally embrace each other.
The only development in episode 14 and 15 in terms of character relationships is that Ichigo finally (after like 10 too many episodes) realizes that she has no chance with Hiro. What else would have been lost there and why would that be silly? + Show Spoiler +I think there's a difference between "riding with her comes with complications. Such as the thing on your chest and your health in general getting worse but she's not out to kill you" like it was portrayed in that episode you mention and her literally trying to kill him in the later episodes.
That's the point, it's not that she's a hulking, big girl who occasionaly bruises him without the intent to do so. She literally was out to kill him in the later episodes and I think that makes a big difference.
If it's really just what you mentioned I'd say that's kinda okay and people can talk that through, which is what we saw the first 10 or so episodes: The kids kind of scared of her, not sure what's going on and if they can trust her but in the end they're willing to let them talk to each other because they don't think it's malicious and it's his decision.
But then EP 13 and 14 happened and it becomes malicious with her intend on killing him. Not as a byproduct of riding with her or anything he was fine with, just straight up killing him for the purpose to further her goal.
I'd say in that situation, if you say
a) is certain death for him (not letting him ride with her and he's not able to ride with anyone else)
b) is certain death for him as well (letting him be with her)
I'd probably still try to get him away from her and try to work something out. A is obviously not good, but in the same way doing heroin isn't good. Sure you're going to die but if I see someone currently getting strangled (because for some reason that helps against his heroin addiction) I'd still first try to do something about the strangling. And then try and work something out from there.
And I think that's what Ichigos train of though was. She clearly got him away from the immediate death threat and then mentioned that she'll find a way that he'll be able to ride with someone else, basicly saying she'll deal with the other problem as well. Wether that's possible is another question but seems reasonable to me to first get the immediate deaththreat out of the way and then think about the other one once you're done with that. + Show Spoiler +Well, one of the "complications" of riding with her was certain death for everyone up until that point. As far as she knew, he was going to die at their 3rd ride together and yet we didn't see her making such a big drama out of it.
Episode 15 was similar in that regard. Ichigo from episode 14 would have picked him up after his training unit crashed and brought him back home instead of delivering him to 02. What changed between episode 14 and 15 for Ichigo?
There was no scene of Hiro explaining to her why talking to and riding with 02 would be alright now. So there seems to be a bit of inconsistency regarding her character - or episode 14 was just made up bullshit for the sake of additional drama.
I honestly disagree with your assessment of the situation. The choice there seem to be:
1. Certain death at the hand of the organisation. Nothing suggests that she would be able to find a way that he can ride with someone else. The scientists know that he cannot ride with someone else properly and they were about to ice him during episode 1 before 02 showed up. The kids kinda know already that this is what happens with the people who are incapable of riding the Franxx (we had a few scenes regarding that)
2. Possible death at the hand of 02. True, she intended to kill him, but it could just as well have been a short outburst of insanity. And both the audience and Hiro know that he could have reached 02 and resolved the problem if only he could have talked to her.
Again, talking to each other tends to be a thing that characters should do - and would do in such a situation. The fact that Ichigo never even gave him the chance to explain himself and why he thinks that talking to 02 will solve the problem makes that episode so terrible. This is not what reasonable human beings tend to do. Or would you not let your guyfriend at least try to explain that situation and rather just tell him to shut the fuck up and that you love him? That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense - unless you have serious mental health issues.
Aside from that, Hiro himself said multiple times that he is dead anyway and that he'd ride with 02 even if that would be certain death for him. That's why the whole team was kinda alright with him riding with 02 up until that point.
And that is just the in-character stuff. The writers could easily have changed a small detail here and there to shift it in either direction, but they didn't and went ahead with it in that cliche way of not letting the characters talk to each other for no reason at all. That episode 15 rendered episode 14 completely irrelevant is just the icing on the cake here. No. Just no. + Show Spoiler [why ok now] +
The entire planation was about to be destroyed. Come on....
If one your best friends shows up at your door bloody, battered and broken and you finally put two and two together your first reaction is not, "oh they should talk and we should hear whatever shitty reason and plea for forgiveness the scum can come up with". First you are angry and concerned, then once you know she's safe and in good hands of professionals, you feel guild and hate youself for not seeing it earlier and then rage takes over and the only reason you are not calling up your mutual friends to do some good old boot polka on him is someone manage to calm you down since what she needs right now is not have a friend end up in prison for assault. Until you've seen someone dear to you beaten bloody you dont know true frustration and rage in it's classical sense of the word.
The only thing you could point your finger at is Ichigo kissing him but I honestly dont know how you react if you are in love with your friend. But I could definitely understand acting out in frustration "why are you with that scum when I will never hurt you and I'm right here!".
This is not an obnoxious cliche, the victim in a depressive state of mind trying to accept the abuse is very common, this situation is sadly true to life and Ichigo's response is very real and anyone that tries to find a reason to justify an abusive relationship should just fuck off.
Ichigo is ready to shoulder Hiro's expected anger for breaking them apart and support him in whatever way she can. The hate she got is from people that have no fucking clue how it feels like to be in her situation. Ichigo is a relatable, genuine and real hero.
The kids and we dont know if pilots incapable of riding with partners at their current location are actually terminated. After Naomi's transportation Ichigo tell Hiro she survived the klaxosaur attack and is currently in care at the hospital there is no reason for the adults to give her treatment only to terminate her afterwards. Naomi's status as an asset is just she cant link with Hiro and it makes no sense for the adults to just kill off a pilot considering how many years it takes to train them (they haven't even graduated in first episode) because they cant link up with their current partner. The adults have already kept Hiro around for years after he stopped being able to link up with anyone. Ichigo and friends only reason to fear for his life is Zero2 not the adults. Ichigo genuinely believe she can with enough effort pair up with Hiro which turns out to be true and they are appearently really pretty fucking strong together - they fight equal and even overpower rampage mode Zero2 who had just shown she was capable of soloing hundreds of klaxosaurs. 1) Mitsuri know what Zero2 does to her partner and he even got an easy treatment. + Show Spoiler [canon (manga)] +her non-Hiro partners aside from the mental and physical hurt start to immediately and rapidly age. Mitsuri seemingly didn't age so either he's special too or she went easy on him. + Show Spoiler [manga quality] +it's same story, bit more details and the artist drags it down it by grabbing every single opportunity to draw the girls naked. -.- 2) They have seen how badly Mitsuri was hurt. 3) Ichigo has been warned by Zero2's former squad leader. 4) Finding some reason to accept being in an increasingly abusive relationship is why dead partners show up in statistics and research about such relationships. On April 23 2018 02:48 lestye wrote:On April 22 2018 11:33 Jek wrote:On April 22 2018 11:15 lestye wrote:Re: Darling Episode 15 + Show Spoiler +Didn't he link up with her earlier.... I recall him linking up and then going limp once combat actually started? Using that memory as reference, I think he can link up if he's just moving and not doing anything too technical or combative.
Or am I thinking of some other combination. + Show Spoiler +
They linked and immediately broke apart when they started to move. Ichigo entered rampage mode out of frustration. Would have liked if Ichigo went rampage mode too when moving Hiro to Zero2 or at least let the squad go "wait wtf" about it.
edit: On second thought I guesssss I can live with it, they have stated the pilots need to be in harmony of sorts and Ichigo have now fully accepted Hiro wants Zero2. But meh it just feels so cheap.
+ Show Spoiler +lmao, i like the compromise "ok, i could have accepted it, under the contingency the mech moved like that QWOP flash game Oh god. That would have been hilarious. :D + Show Spoiler [cant help but think] +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8 + Show Spoiler +
Comparing it to a domestic abuse case is really not the best comparison here and I don't appreciate it that you make it sound like I am arguing in favor of domestic abuse, even implying that the reason for me doing that is that I have never experienced the results of it. That's not just plain wrong but also a tad unfair, to say the least.
And it's not like he shows up at your door either. He didn't ask for anyone to mediate. He has a solution and that requires talking to his partner. Then you show up, don't listen to what he has to say because you obviously know best anyway and try to get into his pants. Because the reason for interfering is not that you are genuinely concerned about his well-being, but because you are obsessed with him and want him for yourself.
It is not about a plea of forgiveness. It is about understanding the situation and all it takes for Hiro to resolve it is to say a single sentence to 02. Hiro is not in a depressed state of mind either. He knows exactly what is happening, understands the situation and knows what he has to do... if only his friends would let him explain himself. But they are, like you, too busy being condescending and prefer to act on suspicion instead. That is, in my eyes, irrational hysteria.
And where the domestic abuse allegory really falls apart is that in comparison to it, Hiro doesn't really have a choice there. It's either ride or die and he absolutely knows it.
I am pretty sure he had scenes where this has been discussed and where they have realized that riders don't become adults, failed trainees don't get carted off into some resort, etc. I am pretty sure that the thing about Naomi is made up to set his mind at ease and they all kinda realize it.
Him not being able to ride with anybody was one of the big things of the show. That's also why I call bullshit on the Ichigo+Hiro ride in episode 15. It didn't make any sense and seemed like a cheap crutch to let Ichigo finally see that she stands no chance with Hiro. If he could just ride with her and battle against 02 whenever they felt like it, the entire premise of the show falls apart... which is another reason why episode 14 and 15 were pretty bad. It's flawed writing piled on top of cheap plot devices, sitting comfortably between inconsistent characters. That giant sandwich of bullshit should have best been left out entirely.
And I am pretty sure that the plantation being in danger is not why Ichigo did a sudden 180 and magically linked up with Hiro to deliver him to his "abusive girlfriend".
But I think I am with Toad here. I can agree to disagree on what would have been a reasonable way to react in the kind of situation and arguing about it is unlikely to convince either side. Regardless of that, the "two ships passing in the night" cliche was super cheap and certainly not good writing. I still stand by my point that skipping episode 14 and going straight to the end of episode 15 would have saved us all a lot of unnecessary drama and bad writing. I re-read my post. I got way too heated up about the subject, tunneled into what's just an analogy and sort of lost track of what you guys was actually saying. I'm too sensitive, stopped thinking straight and lashed out without reason. I hope you can accept my apology. Sorry. I will still stand by Ichigo doing the right thing and her lowkey being the best girl for doing what she did. Personally I felt like episode 14-15 was one episode too short. Not just that they skipped "the real episode 15" like I posted earlier, but the whole thing just felt rushed. If they had just devoted one more episode's worth of time to cut out the shortcuts and investigate more what the seperation actually would do to the "Jian birds" + Show Spoiler +would have liked to see Zero2 break even more, would have made their reunion all that much more impactful could have been the greatest part of the show in my opinion. + Show Spoiler [Hiro's mental state] +
I disagree with Hiro not being in a depressive state of mind, he has been almost the entire show. He has no sense of self-worth, bleak view on everything and he's indirectly suicidal. He's a Jian bird, without Zero2 he feels no reason to live.
She's probably dead, but it could be interesting if she have turned into "fuel" for the 9s. We've seen that the guy leader can act as the pistil and he seems to be a hybrid like Zero9. Yeah, it'd be soap drama levels of plot twist. But it'd be intersting to see Hiro's reaction if he met an aged and drained Naomi.
The story has been has walking a delicate line between a coming of age and mech action. Before Zero2 arrived the kids were living an innocent life as if they were just small children (that could drive mechs) and Zero2's arrival started their mental puberty so to speak; angst, jealousy, sexuality and love all seemed like new feelings to them. Devoting a few episodes to let the kids finally for real grow up would in my opinion have been more interesting than rushing straight into pure action like it seems like we're getting the next few weeks. Sort of like how season 1 of Tokyo Ghoul + Show Spoiler +culminating in Kaneki's eventual total mental breakdown. Still bummed they skipped Kaneki's brutal "since you're her brother I'll only half kill you" scene. >:O set up for season 2's more action driven half. Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 16:43 Emnjay808 wrote:Goddamit I screwed up and fully caught up on Souma. + Show Spoiler +the reveal of Souma’s dad to Erina was alright. It sufficed my expectations Haven't watched the anime yet, how far have they come in comparison to the manga?
+ Show Spoiler [Shokugeki] +
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TLADT24920 Posts
Anyone watching that currently airing magical girl anime? I saw a small glimpse of the first episode, looks brutal.
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Are you talking about Cutie Honey Universe, or something else
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On April 24 2018 00:39 BigFan wrote:
Anyone watching that currently airing magical girl anime? I saw a small glimpse of the first episode, looks brutal.
The one with the bullied girl?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 24 2018 01:12 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2018 00:39 BigFan wrote:
Anyone watching that currently airing magical girl anime? I saw a small glimpse of the first episode, looks brutal. The one with the bullied girl?
yes, this one. Magical girl site or something.
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On that note i had to drop cutie honey universe
what a shitshow
bad animation and the show was just uninteresting and downright boring
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Damn reading the My Hero Academia manga now and the anime certainly is going to have a few great moments this season.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 24 2018 02:02 Slaughter wrote:
Damn reading the My Hero Academia manga now and the anime certainly is going to have a few great moments this season.
I stopped reading a while ago but one of the best fights will be coming up soon enough. Should be exciting if they go all out :D
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The most recent chapters of the manga have been really great
This mini-arc has been a ton of fun and the action has been top tier, finally done with the kind of so-so arc before it
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On April 24 2018 00:39 BigFan wrote:
Anyone watching that currently airing magical girl anime? I saw a small glimpse of the first episode, looks brutal.
What's your opinion on magical girl ore?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On April 24 2018 02:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2018 00:39 BigFan wrote:
Anyone watching that currently airing magical girl anime? I saw a small glimpse of the first episode, looks brutal. What's your opinion on magical girl ore?
haven't watched it, don't think I would like it.
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Golden Kamuy as strong again this week. Great pace, great comedy, and great tension. Looks to be one of the best of the season. (Already called it though)
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EPT
