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Rewatching HxH randomly again. Man Yorknew arc is sooooooo good. How can you make me feel so freaking emotional over these "evil, villainous antagonist". Paku . Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it.
I wonder if there's a universe out there where HxH was maintained at this quality for the whole duration without a billion breaks so we had like triple the content. Why can I be in that universe :<
King's game reminds me of Maygoiga (sp) that we had a while back. Also, rofl at + Show Spoiler +
the changing behaviour of that girl that loves MC. Ya, let's all blame him and try and get him killed! Smart idea -_- MC and his friend were pretty stupid leaving Daisuki to just walk to the kitchen on his own. You'd think that they'll keep an eye on his all night instead of just till midnight passes...
On October 14 2017 00:23 Numy wrote: Rewatching HxH randomly again. Man Yorknew arc is sooooooo good. How can you make me feel so freaking emotional over these "evil, villainous antagonist". Paku . Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it.
I wonder if there's a universe out there where HxH was maintained at this quality for the whole duration without a billion breaks so we had like triple the content. Why can I be in that universe :<
Can you elaborate on what you mean with pseudo-intellectualism ? I don't remember anything like that in the CA arc (or in HxH in general). I was fond of the narrator during + Show Spoiler [HxH] +
the palace invasion
personally. It was an extremely important and dangerous event in that arc and the narrator really helped emphasize how tense the situation was. It reminded me of those nature documentaries about predators chasing their prey.
On October 14 2017 00:23 Numy wrote: Rewatching HxH randomly again. Man Yorknew arc is sooooooo good. How can you make me feel so freaking emotional over these "evil, villainous antagonist". Paku . Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it.
I wonder if there's a universe out there where HxH was maintained at this quality for the whole duration without a billion breaks so we had like triple the content. Why can I be in that universe :<
Can you elaborate on what you mean with pseudo-intellectualism ? I don't remember anything like that in the CA arc (or in HxH in general). I was fond of the narrator during + Show Spoiler [HxH] +
the palace invasion
personally. It was an extremely important and dangerous event in that arc and the narrator really helped emphasize how tense the situation was. It reminded me of those nature documentaries about predators chasing their prey.
It's been awhile so specifics is going to be hard. + Show Spoiler +
A big theme of the arc was what it means to be human. Is humanity something defined by how you born or the actions you do. What are morals, do morals depend on circumstance. Is it amoral for an ant to kill a human? Is this analogous to a human killing a pig or other smart animals etc. There was a lot of that. I remember a moment specifically focusing on a character backstory we never see or even hear about. Then it climaxes with the concept of humanity will survive because we are the most merciless. It was just heavy on the philosophy. That on it's own isn't too bad, LoGH is heavy handed too. It's just how it executes it.
So there's a concept in storytelling, "Show don't tell". It's very easy and boring to say "this character is a bad guy" or "this character is super strong!". The reader isn't going to be particularly interested in reading that. It doesn't add to the story. However if you show the character doing bad things then we can develop a sense that he's a bad guy. HxH does this constantly.
Yorknew arc is all about showing the good and bad in people. How a group or individual can go from doing hideous acts to being kind to another. In fact it has very similar themes to that of the ant arc. It never slows down to tell us this about the characters, it shows us. The narrator is interesting, but narration in film only really works very spartanly. As soon as you rely on it too much it slows down the pacing of the show too much. LoGH has a narrator at times but is mostly used when it doesn't make sense to have a character in world talking. History episodes are the main times they use it or to give some context. The problem with the Ant arc's narrator is that he tells us information we already know or can determine through the events of the story. At one point a character essentially suffers immense psychological trauma resulting in ptsd like mental state. We can see this through the characters actions but the show pauses for the narrator to explain that his character has gone through that trauma. Why? It serves no purpose. Believe in your audience's ability to understand the implications of the story. HxH never needed to do that before so why does it need it now? The overall impact of these huge story events are downplayed due to how the pacing is constantly broken by the narrator.
The narrator before that point was mainly used at the start or end of the ep as a "this is context so far" which is a trope of weekly airing I can forgive. It's not good storytelling but it's just something we have to live with. I wonder if the director felt trapped. It's a show that on the surface is meant to appeal to kids like One Piece but it deals with themes that are more adult and dark. The ant arc may be the most mature it's been so I do wonder if that was the directors way of pivoting. Or was it just how the arc was written? Did they just pull 1-1 on the manga which led to a situation of something that works in manga form not working in film?
I didn't say it doesn't deal. Just using an example of a story that was and still is marketed to a younger audience. The bright colours and beginning of HxH makes it appear more like those kind of shows. OP may be a lot deeper than most, it's just an example that sprung to mind. OP is a great example of an author and story evolving over time, growing along side it's audience.
Narrators are telling instead of showing. If they didn't accomplish that task then they served zero purpose. They good for some things. They can work well when meshed into a story well or comedic effect. More often than not they just a poor crutch for bad storytelling though. They come more from an age of theater where you needed someone to set up context. We can adapt how we use these tools now and people are good at doing it. HxH was a bit poorly used narrator and felt more like it was just there so kids watching weekly could know what was going on.
On October 14 2017 00:23 Numy wrote: Rewatching HxH randomly again. Man Yorknew arc is sooooooo good. How can you make me feel so freaking emotional over these "evil, villainous antagonist". Paku . Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it.
I wonder if there's a universe out there where HxH was maintained at this quality for the whole duration without a billion breaks so we had like triple the content. Why can I be in that universe :<
Can you elaborate on what you mean with pseudo-intellectualism ? I don't remember anything like that in the CA arc (or in HxH in general). I was fond of the narrator during + Show Spoiler [HxH] +
the palace invasion
personally. It was an extremely important and dangerous event in that arc and the narrator really helped emphasize how tense the situation was. It reminded me of those nature documentaries about predators chasing their prey.
It's been awhile so specifics is going to be hard. + Show Spoiler +
A big theme of the arc was what it means to be human. Is humanity something defined by how you born or the actions you do. What are morals, do morals depend on circumstance. Is it amoral for an ant to kill a human? Is this analogous to a human killing a pig or other smart animals etc. There was a lot of that. I remember a moment specifically focusing on a character backstory we never see or even hear about. Then it climaxes with the concept of humanity will survive because we are the most merciless. It was just heavy on the philosophy. That on it's own isn't too bad, LoGH is heavy handed too. It's just how it executes it.
So there's a concept in storytelling, "Show don't tell". It's very easy and boring to say "this character is a bad guy" or "this character is super strong!". The reader isn't going to be particularly interested in reading that. It doesn't add to the story. However if you show the character doing bad things then we can develop a sense that he's a bad guy. HxH does this constantly.
Yorknew arc is all about showing the good and bad in people. How a group or individual can go from doing hideous acts to being kind to another. In fact it has very similar themes to that of the ant arc. It never slows down to tell us this about the characters, it shows us. The narrator is interesting, but narration in film only really works very spartanly. As soon as you rely on it too much it slows down the pacing of the show too much. LoGH has a narrator at times but is mostly used when it doesn't make sense to have a character in world talking. History episodes are the main times they use it or to give some context. The problem with the Ant arc's narrator is that he tells us information we already know or can determine through the events of the story. At one point a character essentially suffers immense psychological trauma resulting in ptsd like mental state. We can see this through the characters actions but the show pauses for the narrator to explain that his character has gone through that trauma. Why? It serves no purpose. Believe in your audience's ability to understand the implications of the story. HxH never needed to do that before so why does it need it now? The overall impact of these huge story events are downplayed due to how the pacing is constantly broken by the narrator.
The narrator before that point was mainly used at the start or end of the ep as a "this is context so far" which is a trope of weekly airing I can forgive. It's not good storytelling but it's just something we have to live with. I wonder if the director felt trapped. It's a show that on the surface is meant to appeal to kids like One Piece but it deals with themes that are more adult and dark. The ant arc may be the most mature it's been so I do wonder if that was the directors way of pivoting. Or was it just how the arc was written? Did they just pull 1-1 on the manga which led to a situation of something that works in manga form not working in film?
I agree that the narrator did more harm than good. I get that somebody needs to explain that the + Show Spoiler +
rose is poisonous
, but side chars like smoke guy could have done that. Or just keep the narrator out of the picture except for one or two scenes. He often did essentially a play by play narration, which is something I don't want in a show.
I still think that the ant-arc is the best one of the anime,I like most of the subplots and really like the end. But I agree that the spider-arc has better pacing and is very memorable overall.
On October 14 2017 00:23 Numy wrote: Rewatching HxH randomly again. Man Yorknew arc is sooooooo good. How can you make me feel so freaking emotional over these "evil, villainous antagonist". Paku . Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it.
I wonder if there's a universe out there where HxH was maintained at this quality for the whole duration without a billion breaks so we had like triple the content. Why can I be in that universe :<
Can you elaborate on what you mean with pseudo-intellectualism ? I don't remember anything like that in the CA arc (or in HxH in general). I was fond of the narrator during + Show Spoiler [HxH] +
the palace invasion
personally. It was an extremely important and dangerous event in that arc and the narrator really helped emphasize how tense the situation was. It reminded me of those nature documentaries about predators chasing their prey.
It's been awhile so specifics is going to be hard. + Show Spoiler +
A big theme of the arc was what it means to be human. Is humanity something defined by how you born or the actions you do. What are morals, do morals depend on circumstance. Is it amoral for an ant to kill a human? Is this analogous to a human killing a pig or other smart animals etc. There was a lot of that. I remember a moment specifically focusing on a character backstory we never see or even hear about. Then it climaxes with the concept of humanity will survive because we are the most merciless. It was just heavy on the philosophy. That on it's own isn't too bad, LoGH is heavy handed too. It's just how it executes it.
So there's a concept in storytelling, "Show don't tell". It's very easy and boring to say "this character is a bad guy" or "this character is super strong!". The reader isn't going to be particularly interested in reading that. It doesn't add to the story. However if you show the character doing bad things then we can develop a sense that he's a bad guy. HxH does this constantly.
Yorknew arc is all about showing the good and bad in people. How a group or individual can go from doing hideous acts to being kind to another. In fact it has very similar themes to that of the ant arc. It never slows down to tell us this about the characters, it shows us. The narrator is interesting, but narration in film only really works very spartanly. As soon as you rely on it too much it slows down the pacing of the show too much. LoGH has a narrator at times but is mostly used when it doesn't make sense to have a character in world talking. History episodes are the main times they use it or to give some context. The problem with the Ant arc's narrator is that he tells us information we already know or can determine through the events of the story. At one point a character essentially suffers immense psychological trauma resulting in ptsd like mental state. We can see this through the characters actions but the show pauses for the narrator to explain that his character has gone through that trauma. Why? It serves no purpose. Believe in your audience's ability to understand the implications of the story. HxH never needed to do that before so why does it need it now? The overall impact of these huge story events are downplayed due to how the pacing is constantly broken by the narrator.
The narrator before that point was mainly used at the start or end of the ep as a "this is context so far" which is a trope of weekly airing I can forgive. It's not good storytelling but it's just something we have to live with. I wonder if the director felt trapped. It's a show that on the surface is meant to appeal to kids like One Piece but it deals with themes that are more adult and dark. The ant arc may be the most mature it's been so I do wonder if that was the directors way of pivoting. Or was it just how the arc was written? Did they just pull 1-1 on the manga which led to a situation of something that works in manga form not working in film?
I don't see what's pseudointellectual about that, the themes you mentioned are extremely common in fiction and the CA arc handled said themes in a simple and straightforward way. I'd call something pseudointelectual when it randomly starts quoting famous philosophers like Sartre, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein and the like or goes full EoE.
Kurapika vs Uvogin and Palace invasion respectively
, and yorknew had little to no exposition but a lot of dialogue while the opposite was true for the CA arc. Togashi relies a lot more on text to tell his story compared to other manga authors and narration was the only way for him to convey information in some segments of the CA arc. The narrator is important to the pacing of the CA arc and doing anything besides trimming out some pointless exposition would push the pacing from one extreme to another and make the emotional scenes feel shallow imo. Not that it's impossible to speed up the CA arc but it'll need a lot of rewriting to make the climaxes work.
Funnily enough I thought the narration worked better in the anime than in the source. The manga is in that akward spot where it has nearly just as much text as drawings but the text can't stand on its own without the drawings. I had to drop it after 20 chapters because it simply wasn't enjoyable to read.
I may be off mark calling it pseudointellectual, could be the narration and pacing left such a negative impact it's partly clouding execution of the themes. I do believe that the narrator was not important to the plot. It was a crutch he used to bring together his plan for the story. Is he content with how he wrote it? Feel like he wouldn't be.
When we talk about pacing I don't necessarily mean how quickly the story happens. Good pacing can be slow. It could also be fast. In this instance it's a bit of slowing down the story but also it's about interrupting it. That's more the unforgivable part. If they needed to rewrite a lot of it to work better in the anime then I'm fine with that. I've spoken about my change in adaption opinion before. If you can make it work better in anime form if you deviate then that's fine. It's risky but good directors can manage that.
As a viewer we don't need complete information. If there's no real way to convey certain information in the story either through the characters, the surroundings or subtext then maybe the information is not vital? If it is vital why is the story unable to convey that information? Falling back on a narrator to inject the information in may just be a crutch when the story is written into a hole like that. That's how it felt like in the ant arc. Lots of information that while interesting ultimately wasn't required or vital for the viewer. Just leave it out. Don't interrupt the story to give that. Put that in side stories if you must or other random pamphlets. He was fine doing this throughout HxH so why now is it required to have narrator give information? Just really odd.
As a side note I find it interesting you share this stance while being a manga reader. I wonder what the split is? I haven't read nor ever intend to read. Archeon? Feel manga readers may be more prone to find the narrator and overall execution of the arc more satisfactory.
edit: The last part sounded accusatory. Didn't mean it so. Just know different people enjoy different stuff. So thought maybe one that linked manga a lot and the manga itself may be more inclined to enjoy that style of writing/pacing.
Wether Togashi is satisfied with the end result or not doesn't really matter. Ultimately he decided to add in a narrator and, for better or worse, it's a part of the CA arc. Though for what it's worth I do think his reliance on dialogue and exposition is a crutch but hey every writer has its faults.
I don't think the narrator was important to the plot per se but I do think it was important to how the viewer/reader experienced the story. Stories are more than the sum of their parts, rewriting the CA arc to remove the narrator might just create flaws that the original version didn't have. Though out of curiousity, how much of the narration would you remove if you had the chance to ? I don't remember having much of an issue with the narration so I'd only trim out some pointless exposition during the more relaxed moments and leave the tense moments as is.
I didn't read the HxH manga myself aside from the 20 chapters after where the anime left off so I don't think being a manga reader has anything to do with it. Though if you're referring to manga readers in general then yeah it's possible that somebody who liked the execution of the CA arc might value the things that makes them more likely to read manga in the first place.
On October 14 2017 00:28 BigFan wrote: King's game reminds me of Maygoiga (sp) that we had a while back. Also, rofl at + Show Spoiler +
the changing behaviour of that girl that loves MC. Ya, let's all blame him and try and get him killed! Smart idea -_- MC and his friend were pretty stupid leaving Daisuki to just walk to the kitchen on his own. You'd think that they'll keep an eye on his all night instead of just till midnight passes...
We were given no clues that her sweet nature was all fake. Even her story about her parents dying early in her life can't explain that change in her
I can't really stand the MC and the other students. A bunch of classmates just died and their reactions feel unreal.
I wonder if they are going to keep swapping between the old game and the current game. The risk of doing that would be not developping the cast correctly (as the screentime will be divided both).
Dies Irae episode 1 was like the perfect blend of cutting out enough content in the name of pacing to lack any depth, while also still being paced slow enough for nothing to actually happen. What a train wreck
I can't believe they managed to bring me to care so much about Mitty and the whole situation. I think it was how it was set up and that there was an argument with breaks for thinking whether Reg would kill Mitty or not. I had a big lump in my throat the whole time, holy fuck. I'm so glad they too Nanachi with them after Reg mentioned the possible suicide. That would have been too much for me.
The only thing I thought was out of place were the pedo tendencies in some scenes. Totally unnecessary imho. I was completely fine with all the excrement stuff etc. I also think sexual exploration of teens can work in fiction if done right. It's a delicate topic though and I felt like it has been more like a joke and to satisfy the author's fetish instead of dealing with it in a mature manner. It's only a small fault in the whole context though.
Generally I really liked the amount of effort they put into this. Animation and the design of the creatures and backgrounds was sooo detailed. It enhanced my enjoyment of this by a lot because it felt unique and alive. The soundtrack was also quite good and added to the atmosphere. I also enjoyed the world building. Generally I would say this was a very good show and something you don't see often. I think it doesn't edge out Kazuko s2 or Rakugo s2 for the AotY but so far it's the best new title for me in 2017. It ended on a cliffhanger so fingers crossed for a second season.
Didn't realize Hyouge Mono was being scanlated. Guess I'll have to pick that up - the anime was a good ride. Frankly, it's kind of amazing that something this niche got an adaptation at all, let alone a 3-cour monster.
Anyone watching Net-juu no Susume? It's such a feel good story at times, even if it can be excessively silly too. Toad, for some reason, I think you might like this lol
Houseki no Kuni is a pretty decent watch so far as well.
On October 18 2017 02:00 BigFan wrote: Anyone watching Net-juu no Susume? It's such a feel good story at times, even if it can be excessively silly too. Toad, for some reason, I think you might like this lol
Houseki no Kuni is a pretty decent watch so far as well.
Yeah, I am enjoying net juu too. I watched episode 2 with ice kun again last night too. It is just so cute and endearing.
EPT
. Honestly still think it was the best arc in the series. Chimera ant arc had some cool stuff but it got too bogged down by pseudo-intellectualism and "look at how fast all this shit happened" for 20 eps. Komugi, Pitou, smoke man were all pretty awesome but it just was just too let down by it's pacing. That and it's need to continually tell what is happening instead of merely showing. We don't need a narrator to tell us how quickly everything is happening, you can visually do that. Maybe this is a case of trying to adapt a Manga too faithfully actually worsens it. 
