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If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.ggFor currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net |
On May 08 2015 04:39 Unleashing wrote:
It might be the most interesting because the author doesn't get a chance to ruin it since it's not in focus, har har.
That's deep man. It all makes sense now.
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On May 08 2015 04:36 Numy wrote:
Owari no Seraph anime would be quite a lot better if it got rid of the MC or it just stopped having him whine 24/7. I don't get what's up with mangaka loving to make 2 sides of a story but always making the most interesting side the one we don't see the most.
So true...
On May 08 2015 04:39 Unleashing wrote:
It might be the most interesting because the author doesn't get a chance to ruin it since it's not in focus, har har.
...but this makes a lot of sense.
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On May 08 2015 04:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 04:34 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 04:00 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 03:40 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:48 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 02:42 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:10 Toadesstern wrote:
If you read LNs first you obviously have to be hipster and hate on how the anime is different no matter what they do. the method of storytelling in novels doesn't translate well in anime form, so most of the time the directors simply cut it out of their scripts. regardless of whether you read the source before or after, you will always feel like you missed out on something in the animation when reviewing it retrospectively. which is what I'm saying. Of course a 600 page book is going to be more detailed than an anime adaptation and why I said the 3 genres have all their strengths and weaknesses. I tend to think that Manga is equally bad in that regard except for very few exceptions and hence will focus on other things and not try to be a 1:1 adaptation with more pictures in there. Hence saying, don't expect it to be 100% the same. The three things have all their strength and weaknesses and yes, stuff that's butchered exists. But just because it's focusing on different things, because they know they can't deliver the same kind of in depth storytelling in anime format doesn't mean it has to be bad. well that's kind of my point. the source will always be better than the animation (or movie, if you want a wider application) as it's a more complete story. hence i don't think it's fair to say someone's being hipster for griping that the anime sucks because, well, it actually does suck in comparison. obv it doesn't mean you can't enjoy both for what they are. but that's ignoring the strongpoints animation has. No matter how good Monogatari novels are you don't get to listen to Chiwa Saitou while reading them. You don't get to see Shaft visuals. If all you care about is story then yes, LNs are the way to go for you as they are way more detailed. And you probably shouldn't bother with anime because you don't dislike adaptations, you just dislike anime because it's that way for 99% of shows no matter of LN adaptation, manga adaptation or things that aren't adaptations at all. If you can appreciate anime for what it's better at than LNs then there's also that. That's why hating on adaptation for the sake of it being an adaptation rather than the specific one being bad is stupid. It's not a matter of adaptation, it's a matter of genre. If you don't like the medium, duh. just me but i honestly couldn't give a shit about VAs. not understanding the language and its vocal nuances takes away from a lot of the appeal, but that's another discussion and not one that i really want to get into. you mention differences in format but that's a massive strawman; you're twisting the discussion from whether an adaptation is worth watching to whether someone prefers a certain type of medium or not. ignoring the fact that animations are a copy of the source doesn't work out because they are inherently truncated versions with pretty visuals (with great audio i guess), mashed together with a compromised plot. fwiw I don't think the animations should be avoided because it's fun to see imaginations come to life, but my main point is, disliking the adaptation for what it is isn't really a negative reaction, nor should it be trivialized to 'being hipster' or whatever. the reaction to adaptations i always find myself with is 'wow this is pretty good but it could have been so much more, if only.' That's the case for the vast majority of shows out there no matter if adaptation or not. If it doesn't matter if the show is an adaptation or not then yes, it can be ignored because it's the same in both scenarios. We just have a lot more adaptations out there than anime original stuff so it's more apparent but that stuff is still going to suffer from less detailed plot if you compare it to a 600 page book. It's just that you don't realize it because there's no original to speak of. So what people hate on isn't that they're worse in story but that they're different compared to the original while good adaptations are in no way inferior to good anime original stuff when it comes to story telling. You just don't realize that a potential source would have been even better at story telling because there is no source.
just to put this really simple, really short for the guy I quoted in there:
You don't dislike adaptations. You prefere LNs or Mangas with more detailed stories than anime.
If there was an anime original getting a good LN adaptation with more fleshed out story than the anime managed to do due to budget and lack of time because it's only a standard 11-12 episode 1 cour, you'd like the adaptation in LN form better than source (Anime).
Thus it's not a problem of adaptations.
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Its possible to make a decent adaptation even if you have limited episodes to do it in. Sadly instead of adapting a smaller piece of a source material competently they try to cram in a bunch of the exciting moments and Frankenstein them together so it turns out sub par. I don't think anyone can argue that that majority of adaptations aren't pretty lazy and disjointed (often jumping around) and are meant to show off the "exciting" parts of a story to bait people into reading the source.
Because it just isn't really possible to really do an adaptation well when they insist on only doing 1 cour because they are worried about it flopping. Too many of the stories are just too long to adapt properly unless you commit to multiple cours.
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Its very possible to have good adaptations. Just not for visual novels. While theortically possible, almost all VN adaptations suck. While there are a few exceptions, VNs just translate poorly due to how difficult it is for an anime to deal with different routes.
Also I'm pretty sure "Shaft visuals" count as a negative.
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On May 08 2015 05:26 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 04:42 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 04:34 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 04:00 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 03:40 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:48 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 02:42 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:10 Toadesstern wrote:
If you read LNs first you obviously have to be hipster and hate on how the anime is different no matter what they do. the method of storytelling in novels doesn't translate well in anime form, so most of the time the directors simply cut it out of their scripts. regardless of whether you read the source before or after, you will always feel like you missed out on something in the animation when reviewing it retrospectively. which is what I'm saying. Of course a 600 page book is going to be more detailed than an anime adaptation and why I said the 3 genres have all their strengths and weaknesses. I tend to think that Manga is equally bad in that regard except for very few exceptions and hence will focus on other things and not try to be a 1:1 adaptation with more pictures in there. Hence saying, don't expect it to be 100% the same. The three things have all their strength and weaknesses and yes, stuff that's butchered exists. But just because it's focusing on different things, because they know they can't deliver the same kind of in depth storytelling in anime format doesn't mean it has to be bad. well that's kind of my point. the source will always be better than the animation (or movie, if you want a wider application) as it's a more complete story. hence i don't think it's fair to say someone's being hipster for griping that the anime sucks because, well, it actually does suck in comparison. obv it doesn't mean you can't enjoy both for what they are. but that's ignoring the strongpoints animation has. No matter how good Monogatari novels are you don't get to listen to Chiwa Saitou while reading them. You don't get to see Shaft visuals. If all you care about is story then yes, LNs are the way to go for you as they are way more detailed. And you probably shouldn't bother with anime because you don't dislike adaptations, you just dislike anime because it's that way for 99% of shows no matter of LN adaptation, manga adaptation or things that aren't adaptations at all. If you can appreciate anime for what it's better at than LNs then there's also that. That's why hating on adaptation for the sake of it being an adaptation rather than the specific one being bad is stupid. It's not a matter of adaptation, it's a matter of genre. If you don't like the medium, duh. just me but i honestly couldn't give a shit about VAs. not understanding the language and its vocal nuances takes away from a lot of the appeal, but that's another discussion and not one that i really want to get into. you mention differences in format but that's a massive strawman; you're twisting the discussion from whether an adaptation is worth watching to whether someone prefers a certain type of medium or not. ignoring the fact that animations are a copy of the source doesn't work out because they are inherently truncated versions with pretty visuals (with great audio i guess), mashed together with a compromised plot. fwiw I don't think the animations should be avoided because it's fun to see imaginations come to life, but my main point is, disliking the adaptation for what it is isn't really a negative reaction, nor should it be trivialized to 'being hipster' or whatever. the reaction to adaptations i always find myself with is 'wow this is pretty good but it could have been so much more, if only.' That's the case for the vast majority of shows out there no matter if adaptation or not. If it doesn't matter if the show is an adaptation or not then yes, it can be ignored because it's the same in both scenarios. We just have a lot more adaptations out there than anime original stuff so it's more apparent but that stuff is still going to suffer from less detailed plot if you compare it to a 600 page book. It's just that you don't realize it because there's no original to speak of. So what people hate on isn't that they're worse in story but that they're different compared to the original while good adaptations are in no way inferior to good anime original stuff when it comes to story telling. You just don't realize that a potential source would have been even better at story telling because there is no source. just to put this really simple, really short for the guy I quoted in there: You don't dislike adaptations. You prefere LNs or Mangas with more detailed stories than anime. If there was an anime original getting a good LN adaptation with more fleshed out story than the anime managed to do due to budget and lack of time because it's only a standard 11-12 episode 1 cour, you'd like the adaptation in LN form better than source (Anime). Thus it's not a problem of adaptations.
wot lmao
why are you trying to presume what I like and what i dislike
if there was a series that had a poor source and the adaptation managed to cut the junk out while keeping true to the original intent, then I'd like the adaptation more because an animation just offers so much more in terms of entertainment.
yet poor sources don't get enough attention to warrant an animation so it usually doesn't happen that way. and at that point it would probably be questionable whether it's even considered an adaptation or an original.
moot point anyways
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On May 08 2015 05:30 Slaughter wrote:
Its possible to make a decent adaptation even if you have limited episodes to do it in. Sadly instead of adapting a smaller piece of a source material competently they try to cram in a bunch of the exciting moments and Frankenstein them together so it turns out sub par. I don't think anyone can argue that that majority of adaptations aren't pretty lazy and disjointed (often jumping around) and are meant to show off the "exciting" parts of a story to bait people into reading the source.
Because it just isn't really possible to really do an adaptation well when they insist on only doing 1 cour because they are worried about it flopping. Too many of the stories are just too long to adapt properly unless you commit to multiple cours.
I never said that's not a thing. I just said that it's not a problem that only belongs to adaptations, it's a problem that belongs to 99% of anime no matter what. And the good adaptations have that problem as well most of the times, they're just good about making it less noticeable.
There's stuff missing out in Oregairu like the scene when hachiman, sensei and yukinon are eating together on the schooltrip. I'm still REALLY enjoying it and would call it a good adaptation despite that.
You're missing out on lots of stuff in monogatari anime alone. Eca is still hating on Tsukihi getting shafted on irc whenever you mention it. And I still think it's a really good adaptation as do most people because the parts they include are done really good (and are actually adapted 1:1 but that's one of the few occasions where that's a good thing given the focus on dialouge).
Junketsu no Maria was a show I really liked last season, and I liked the story as well. In the end, it obviously would have been way better in storytelling had it been two cour instead of 1cour but I still liked it.
That's just a statement you can say for everything "if you give it double the budget and double the episodes it's probably going to end up better". No shit
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On May 08 2015 05:43 andyrau wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 05:26 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 04:42 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 04:34 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 04:00 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 03:40 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:48 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 02:42 andyrau wrote:On May 08 2015 02:10 Toadesstern wrote:
If you read LNs first you obviously have to be hipster and hate on how the anime is different no matter what they do. the method of storytelling in novels doesn't translate well in anime form, so most of the time the directors simply cut it out of their scripts. regardless of whether you read the source before or after, you will always feel like you missed out on something in the animation when reviewing it retrospectively. which is what I'm saying. Of course a 600 page book is going to be more detailed than an anime adaptation and why I said the 3 genres have all their strengths and weaknesses. I tend to think that Manga is equally bad in that regard except for very few exceptions and hence will focus on other things and not try to be a 1:1 adaptation with more pictures in there. Hence saying, don't expect it to be 100% the same. The three things have all their strength and weaknesses and yes, stuff that's butchered exists. But just because it's focusing on different things, because they know they can't deliver the same kind of in depth storytelling in anime format doesn't mean it has to be bad. well that's kind of my point. the source will always be better than the animation (or movie, if you want a wider application) as it's a more complete story. hence i don't think it's fair to say someone's being hipster for griping that the anime sucks because, well, it actually does suck in comparison. obv it doesn't mean you can't enjoy both for what they are. but that's ignoring the strongpoints animation has. No matter how good Monogatari novels are you don't get to listen to Chiwa Saitou while reading them. You don't get to see Shaft visuals. If all you care about is story then yes, LNs are the way to go for you as they are way more detailed. And you probably shouldn't bother with anime because you don't dislike adaptations, you just dislike anime because it's that way for 99% of shows no matter of LN adaptation, manga adaptation or things that aren't adaptations at all. If you can appreciate anime for what it's better at than LNs then there's also that. That's why hating on adaptation for the sake of it being an adaptation rather than the specific one being bad is stupid. It's not a matter of adaptation, it's a matter of genre. If you don't like the medium, duh. just me but i honestly couldn't give a shit about VAs. not understanding the language and its vocal nuances takes away from a lot of the appeal, but that's another discussion and not one that i really want to get into. you mention differences in format but that's a massive strawman; you're twisting the discussion from whether an adaptation is worth watching to whether someone prefers a certain type of medium or not. ignoring the fact that animations are a copy of the source doesn't work out because they are inherently truncated versions with pretty visuals (with great audio i guess), mashed together with a compromised plot. fwiw I don't think the animations should be avoided because it's fun to see imaginations come to life, but my main point is, disliking the adaptation for what it is isn't really a negative reaction, nor should it be trivialized to 'being hipster' or whatever. the reaction to adaptations i always find myself with is 'wow this is pretty good but it could have been so much more, if only.' That's the case for the vast majority of shows out there no matter if adaptation or not. If it doesn't matter if the show is an adaptation or not then yes, it can be ignored because it's the same in both scenarios. We just have a lot more adaptations out there than anime original stuff so it's more apparent but that stuff is still going to suffer from less detailed plot if you compare it to a 600 page book. It's just that you don't realize it because there's no original to speak of. So what people hate on isn't that they're worse in story but that they're different compared to the original while good adaptations are in no way inferior to good anime original stuff when it comes to story telling. You just don't realize that a potential source would have been even better at story telling because there is no source. just to put this really simple, really short for the guy I quoted in there: You don't dislike adaptations. You prefere LNs or Mangas with more detailed stories than anime. If there was an anime original getting a good LN adaptation with more fleshed out story than the anime managed to do due to budget and lack of time because it's only a standard 11-12 episode 1 cour, you'd like the adaptation in LN form better than source (Anime). Thus it's not a problem of adaptations. wot lmao why are you trying to presume what I like and what i dislike [...] because you literally said that...
well that's kind of my point.
the source will always be better than the animation (or movie, if you want a wider application) as it's a more complete story. which is obviously wrong and it IS just a thing about medium and not about wether or not something is source or adaptation.
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On May 08 2015 05:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 05:30 Slaughter wrote:
Its possible to make a decent adaptation even if you have limited episodes to do it in. Sadly instead of adapting a smaller piece of a source material competently they try to cram in a bunch of the exciting moments and Frankenstein them together so it turns out sub par. I don't think anyone can argue that that majority of adaptations aren't pretty lazy and disjointed (often jumping around) and are meant to show off the "exciting" parts of a story to bait people into reading the source.
Because it just isn't really possible to really do an adaptation well when they insist on only doing 1 cour because they are worried about it flopping. Too many of the stories are just too long to adapt properly unless you commit to multiple cours. I never said that's not a thing. I just said that it's not a problem that only belongs to adaptations, it's a problem that belongs to 99% of anime no matter what. And the good adaptations have that problem as well most of the times, they're just good about making it less noticeable. There's stuff missing out in Oregairu like the scene when hachiman, sensei and yukinon are eating together on the schooltrip. I'm still REALLY enjoying it and would call it a good adaptation despite that. You're missing out on lots of stuff in monogatari anime alone. Eca is still hating on Tsukihi getting shafted on irc whenever you mention it. And I still think it's a really good adaptation as do most people because the parts they include are done really good (and are actually adapted 1:1 but that's one of the few occasions where that's a good thing given the focus on dialouge). Junketsu no Maria was a show I really liked last season, and I liked the story as well. In the end, it obviously would have been way better in storytelling had it been two cour instead of 1cour but I still liked it. That's just a statement you can say for everything "if you give it double the budget and double the episodes it's probably going to end up better". No shit
Except no thats not how it works, in general its true but your glossing over the differences between making a story from scratch as an anime and adapting a source material. If you are developing a story for anime you are working with the anime episode counts in mind. The challenge of an adaptation is a completely different thing because the story you are adapting has a lot more material and the way anime seasons are structured. I already said you can do fine if you either commit to more then 1 cour or do a much better job in how you restructure the story in shorter form and most companies choose to try the latter option and they fail at it the majority of the time.
I don't know why you are so adamant in defending anime companies in this, its the same as it is for anything. A tiny bit turn out good, some are decent and a lot are baaaaaad.
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On May 08 2015 06:00 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 05:45 Toadesstern wrote:On May 08 2015 05:30 Slaughter wrote:
Its possible to make a decent adaptation even if you have limited episodes to do it in. Sadly instead of adapting a smaller piece of a source material competently they try to cram in a bunch of the exciting moments and Frankenstein them together so it turns out sub par. I don't think anyone can argue that that majority of adaptations aren't pretty lazy and disjointed (often jumping around) and are meant to show off the "exciting" parts of a story to bait people into reading the source.
Because it just isn't really possible to really do an adaptation well when they insist on only doing 1 cour because they are worried about it flopping. Too many of the stories are just too long to adapt properly unless you commit to multiple cours. I never said that's not a thing. I just said that it's not a problem that only belongs to adaptations, it's a problem that belongs to 99% of anime no matter what. And the good adaptations have that problem as well most of the times, they're just good about making it less noticeable. There's stuff missing out in Oregairu like the scene when hachiman, sensei and yukinon are eating together on the schooltrip. I'm still REALLY enjoying it and would call it a good adaptation despite that. You're missing out on lots of stuff in monogatari anime alone. Eca is still hating on Tsukihi getting shafted on irc whenever you mention it. And I still think it's a really good adaptation as do most people because the parts they include are done really good (and are actually adapted 1:1 but that's one of the few occasions where that's a good thing given the focus on dialouge). Junketsu no Maria was a show I really liked last season, and I liked the story as well. In the end, it obviously would have been way better in storytelling had it been two cour instead of 1cour but I still liked it. That's just a statement you can say for everything "if you give it double the budget and double the episodes it's probably going to end up better". No shit Except no thats not how it works, in general its true but your glossing over the differences between making a story from scratch as an anime and adapting a source material. If you are developing a story for anime you are working with the anime episode counts in mind. The challenge of an adaptation is a completely different thing because the story you are adapting has a lot more material and the way anime seasons are structured. I already said you can do fine if you either commit to more then 1 cour or do a much better job in how you restructure the story in shorter form and most companies choose to try the latter option and they fail at it the majority of the time.I don't know why you are so adamant in defending anime companies in this, its the same as it is for anything. A tiny bit turn out good, some are decent and a lot are baaaaaad.
I completly agree with that... It's the first sentence in the post you just quoted. For the 4th time now: I disagree with the guy saying that literally 100% of adaptations have to be bad because they're adaptations.
I mean if we are to believe Shirobako, the director of an anime original show doesn't know how it'll end before episodes started airing either in bad cases.
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In conclusion: We need more anime originals :D
then the circlejerk of source > adaption wouldn't need to exist
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I don't really think it's a matter of getting more originals unless Urobutcher is writing them.
It's more of an issue that you have to sell out with cute girls doing cute things (or cute girls dying if it's Urobutcher) to get break even unless you're the 1% super legit show inbetween.
That is if you don't like cute girls doing cute things or anything else they include to push sales.
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I was just thinking of how cool a serious sci-fi with cat girls would be. Pity I doubt we'll ever get serious/grittty cat girls ;(
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On May 08 2015 06:31 Toadesstern wrote:
I don't really think it's a matter of getting more originals unless Urobutcher is writing them.
It's more of an issue that you have to sell out with cute girls doing cute things (or cute girls dying if it's Urobutcher) to get break even unless you're the 1% super legit show inbetween.
That is if you don't like cute girls doing cute things or anything else they include to push sales.
Fafner from last season sold well and its not cute girls doing cute things nor is it written by urobuchi.
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meh. Ore Monogatari ep5 was somewhat ok. I don't think I can't last through the full 24 episodes of this show though. Yet, I still want to know what + Show Spoiler +Yamato is hiding from Takeo. Does she want a kiss?
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On May 08 2015 07:32 Miragee wrote:meh. Ore Monogatari ep5 was somewhat ok. I don't think I can't last through the full 24 episodes of this show though. Yet, I still want to know what + Show Spoiler +Yamato is hiding from Takeo. Does she want a kiss? Can someone spoil me the manga pls?
+ Show Spoiler + I haven't read the Manga but judging from that episode there's a 99% chance she just wants a kiss.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Interesting topic. For me, whenever I think of a rushed anime adaption, I think of two anime: Black Bullet and Akame ga kill. With BB, they introduced characters out of the blue and skipped quite a bit to the point where it was crazy noticeable to me. More so towards the end since they likely couldn't show everything in the time they had left (should've structured better imo). AgK with that infamous scene in episode 20 or 21 I think where we were supposed to get a fight between Night Raid and the Jaegars but then we somehow don't have a fight and they are nowhere each other anymore in the next episode lol.
I mostly watch anime and its pretty rare for me to read a manga/LN etc... Only LN I tried was FSN but I wasn't interested in the time investment so I stopped early on; just wasn't my thing.
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On May 08 2015 07:37 Imperfect1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 07:32 Miragee wrote:meh. Ore Monogatari ep5 was somewhat ok. I don't think I can't last through the full 24 episodes of this show though. Yet, I still want to know what + Show Spoiler +Yamato is hiding from Takeo. Does she want a kiss? Can someone spoil me the manga pls? + Show Spoiler + I haven't read the Manga but judging from that episode there's a 99% chance she just wants a kiss.
+ Show Spoiler +i remember reading something where people are saying that while takeo is pure, yamato is really lewd. I wonder if the author will ever get to them having sex
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That was quite the Iroha show for Oregairu. I'm happy with that
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