EPT[Manga] One Piece - Page 842
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
|
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
| ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 28 2014 10:06 Hyperbola wrote: That's a cool theory and I'm not disagreeing with you but there are some variables you should also consider. 1. Smoker and the rain ship. In chapter 212 we see smoker sitting in the rain ship. He says he didn't use it but he could be lying or just being smoker. It could be that he unleashed the rain all over the kingdom as a "fuck you" to crocodile. 2. Luffy is able to smack crocodile in the face and away from Whitebeard. In chapter 557, although he does use gear second, he prevents crocodile from attacking Whitebeard. So maybe Crocodile was exerting himself by preventing some rain from happening but I don't think its the only reason he lost. I think it was simply because Crocodile isn't really a good match for luffy since instead of being quick, he just uses his sand a lot. Without haki or water, Crocodile can one shot you, that's true. But Luffy had every advantage going into the fight and that's why he won. Crocodile IS a good match for doflamingo who really can't do shit to logias besides using haki punches. And Doflamingo does not specialize in haki punches nearly as much as he favors using his strings. In fact we've only seen him use his fist once. One Piece just doesn't have clear power levels. I agree with this point of view. Crocodile strikes me as another of those people that rely heavily on their devil fruit. And through pure coincidence, or Oda's planning, Luffy tends to have good matchups against the pure devil fruit users he meets. In fact his matchup against Enel was so good, Luffy had to be stuck in a snake's belly for the majority of the arc. | ||
|
ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 28 2014 12:30 Mataza wrote: I agree with this point of view. Crocodile strikes me as another of those people that rely heavily on their devil fruit. And through pure coincidence, or Oda's planning, Luffy tends to have good matchups against the pure devil fruit users he meets. In fact his matchup against Enel was so good, Luffy had to be stuck in a snake's belly for the majority of the arc. I wouldn't say that Luffy tends to have good matchups, just that early on, specifically against Crocodile and Enel, Luffy ended up with arc antagonists that he matched up well against. Apart from those two I don't see many examples of devil fruits where Luffy was very favoured. For example, Smoker which he met early on in Logue Town was an awful matchup, and some other enemies he meets like Magellan are pretty bad too. | ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
| ||
|
squeezegats
Denmark17 Posts
On June 28 2014 10:06 Hyperbola wrote: That's a cool theory and I'm not disagreeing with you but there are some variables you should also consider. 1. Smoker and the rain ship. In chapter 212 we see smoker sitting in the rain ship. He says he didn't use it but he could be lying or just being smoker. It could be that he unleashed the rain all over the kingdom as a "fuck you" to crocodile. 2. Luffy is able to smack crocodile in the face and away from Whitebeard. In chapter 557, although he does use gear second, he prevents crocodile from attacking Whitebeard. So maybe Crocodile was exerting himself by preventing some rain from happening but I don't think its the only reason he lost. I think it was simply because Crocodile isn't really a good match for luffy since instead of being quick, he just uses his sand a lot. Without haki or water, Crocodile can one shot you, that's true. But Luffy had every advantage going into the fight and that's why he won. Crocodile IS a good match for doflamingo who really can't do shit to logias besides using haki punches. And Doflamingo does not specialize in haki punches nearly as much as he favors using his strings. In fact we've only seen him use his fist once. One Piece just doesn't have clear power levels. doffy is a logia killar dude, did you see what happened to smoker? He can use haki strings that are verk tricky to dodge to cut crocodile apart while using his speed and levitation to maintain a distance. He is faster than crocodile, and he can fly and has strong observation haki. He dodged crocodile sambles attack in Marineford without effort. Plus he create clones who can also use his string power. No way crocodile is a good counter to doffy. Why would you even says that doffy only has haki punches when he is like the only paramecia we have seen who can slice up logias with his df? | ||
|
RenSC2
United States1102 Posts
So when Crocodile fights, he doesn't need to fight on par with his opponent. His Logia provides good resilience and then he just needs to get that one touch off. A superior fighter like Doflamingo can probably outdo Crocodile in every way, but still needs to be very careful to never let Crocodile touch him. In that way, Crocodile can threaten anyone in the One Piece universe and yet still lose to vanilla Luffy. | ||
|
squeezegats
Denmark17 Posts
On June 28 2014 14:03 Sentenal wrote: I dunno if Crocodile relies on his devil fruit anymore than say, Aokiji or Akainu. Or... any Logia user that jumps to mind, right now. Some logias use their abilities to enhanche physical attacks, like smoker White blow or kizarus lightning speed kicks or Light-sword. Orders like Ace just spam fire attacks. Sabo seem to only use his df for defense while using his claw tecnique in clone combat. Crocodile isn't really a physical fighter he does everything with his sand attacks. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On June 28 2014 12:14 Forikorder wrote: Croc killed luffy "3" times (if you count the poison) and only after killing him 3 times was he tired enough for luffy to beat him Because it isn't tiring to be on the losing end? I know meat is very strong and all, but Luffy losing by being impaled probably tired him out more than it tired out Crocodile. Crocodile didn't really even seem to try in the first two confrontations, though doubtless Luffy's tenacity (he was supposed to die twice and he's BACK looking for a third fight??) gave Luffy a psychological edge against Crocodile. Pile that on top of Crocodile's 3 hard years of work coming to a dead end and you have a very sad croc. Luffy is known for boundless motivation. The thing is that physically speaking it still doesn't make sense that Luffy was able to beat him. I'm talking in terms of physical power levels. I believe that stealing rain the way Crocodile did is actually physically tiring enough that it contributed to Luffy's victory. This is just my theory, but I think it's one that makes sense. Crocodile is by no means weak. He went to the New World, lost to Whitebeard of all people and then came back. It doesn't make sense for such a powerful pirate to lose to a rookie, there was something else and my theory is that stealing the rain is that something else. But yeah, obviously just a theory. We'll have to wait until we meet up with Crocodile again in the New World before knowing more. | ||
|
Fig
United States1324 Posts
The little bit of water/blood on Luffy's body, which was supposedly the reason for Crocodile's helplessness, should have been easy for him to absorb. It doesn't make sense that he can only dry out blood that is inside the body | ||
|
Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
| ||
|
squeezegats
Denmark17 Posts
| ||
|
vndestiny
Singapore3475 Posts
| ||
|
GettingIt
1656 Posts
On June 28 2014 15:08 Slaughter wrote: Does Crocodile have haki? From his fights so far I would say no but maybe he has it now. Like people have said he DOES use mostly his fruit for defense and attacking and without any haki that is probably one of the reasons he was sent packing in the new world and made his "find pluton" plan. He very well in his younger days might have been considered one of those "cocky logia users who think they are invincible" that some people have commented on. I can see that as true something like that swamp guy who got owned. A strong fruit like sand is good enough to get you warlord status but not enough to hang tough in the new world. Hopefull he and number 1 stepped up their game and are big player in the new world. | ||
|
squeezegats
Denmark17 Posts
Mihawk has defeated east blue zoro, some krieg fodder and cut off a big chunk of ice during marineford but didnt manage to hurt a Whitebeard commander or another character despite attempts against luffy and vista. I really wanna see the worlds strongest swordsman cut up some major ass. In fact, as a "swordwanker" guy i feel like the sword action in the series has gotten dull since Oda came up with the lame arial slash concept. it kills the whole purpose of two guys clashing in close combat, exchanging blows and spilling blood and steel clashing against steel. Not to mention its kinda ridiculous. Amp up the swordplay Oda! and throw Mihawk a bone. Pretty please with sugar on top. Yeah i know Mihawk used to sparr with Shanks hence he is bad ass motherfucking, but its much cooler to actually see a character pull off an amazing feat than merely being told they have. | ||
|
goody153
44313 Posts
Especially logia users who also has good haki skills like Akainu who looked ridiculously invulnerable during the war summit. Well to be fair also smoker getting rekt was also another bad case of logia user. And especially that crocodile is an expert when it comes to using his DF. I don't think he was able to equalize with whitebeard or mingo. I don't think DD was very serious during the war like how he is doing in the current arc. And in whitebeards case it seems like whitebeard is ignoring him. In a fair fight he should easily get dominated like smokers case. Smoker is good and could go toe to toe with some of the strong people but beating them is a different case i think. | ||
|
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 28 2014 14:38 Incognoto wrote: Because it isn't tiring to be on the losing end? I know meat is very strong and all, but Luffy losing by being impaled probably tired him out more than it tired out Crocodile. Crocodile didn't really even seem to try in the first two confrontations, though doubtless Luffy's tenacity (he was supposed to die twice and he's BACK looking for a third fight??) gave Luffy a psychological edge against Crocodile. Pile that on top of Crocodile's 3 hard years of work coming to a dead end and you have a very sad croc. Luffy is known for boundless motivation. The thing is that physically speaking it still doesn't make sense that Luffy was able to beat him. I'm talking in terms of physical power levels. I believe that stealing rain the way Crocodile did is actually physically tiring enough that it contributed to Luffy's victory. This is just my theory, but I think it's one that makes sense. Crocodile is by no means weak. He went to the New World, lost to Whitebeard of all people and then came back. It doesn't make sense for such a powerful pirate to lose to a rookie, there was something else and my theory is that stealing the rain is that something else. But yeah, obviously just a theory. We'll have to wait until we meet up with Crocodile again in the New World before knowing more. that jsut shows that Luffy has much mroe stamina then croc, and croc didnt take him seriously in fight 2 and took some big hits it wasnt until the 3rd fight that he really took him seriously and Luffy took a nap before the third fight sure you can say that stealing the rain is physically tiring but theres literally no proof to that, and how would he even steal the rain anyway? if i remember it said that it only ever rained on the capital, and dance poweder makes it rain in one spot in exchange for not raining elsewhere so it sounds exactly like someone was using dance powder | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Yes, this is still a theory, but it's one that makes sense. I don't have any hard proof to back up my theory, it's just that it fits. That's what a theory is after all. :p | ||
|
Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 29 2014 01:23 Incognoto wrote: His devil fruit absorbs moisture. See what Croc did to the palace in alubarna. Just because a devil fruit gives you an ability doesn't mean that an ability is effortless. Do you think that Nami with the Goro Goro No Mi would be able to do what Whitebeard did? I think not. Using a fruit's ability is tiresome if it has an active affect and I imagine that moving and carrying around literally thousands up thousands of litres of water is tiring. How else does such an apparently powerful pirate get weak enough to lose to a rookie, even if it's a super-rookie? I imagine that Crocodile doing nothing but facing small-fry for 3 years was also detrimental to his strength. It's also pretty clear that it was Crocodile holding all that water, since it rained when he was defeated. The dance powder didn't just magically get used when Crocodile was defeated. Yes, this is still a theory, but it's one that makes sense. I don't have any hard proof to back up my theory, it's just that it fits. That's what a theory is after all. :p if he was holding all the water wouldnt it have just flowed out of him? Luffy was strong enough to be a threat to croc, croc was exhausted after continuous battles while Luffy got a chance to rest, croc also took some damage after there second fight and never got a chance to recover from it if Oda wanted Crocs loss to be attributed to him holding water then it could have been shown somehow that "absorbing water makes him weaker" and it never was, and besides the water that makes the rain would come from the oceans surrounding allabasta so unless croc is constantly flying around around absorbing rain clouds he couldnt prevent the rain we already know BW has acess to dance powder and the ship that uses it, the events on allabasta support that the poder was used (only one place getting lots of rain with drought nearby) so why disregard that and assume some other crazier theory? | ||
|
Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 28 2014 14:35 squeezegats wrote: Some logias use their abilities to enhanche physical attacks, like smoker White blow or kizarus lightning speed kicks or Light-sword. Orders like Ace just spam fire attacks. Sabo seem to only use his df for defense while using his claw tecnique in clone combat. Crocodile isn't really a physical fighter he does everything with his sand attacks. What, so making swords out of sand don't count, but light swords and ice spears do? On June 28 2014 14:08 squeezegats wrote: doffy is a logia killar dude, did you see what happened to smoker? He can use haki strings that are verk tricky to dodge to cut crocodile apart while using his speed and levitation to maintain a distance. He is faster than crocodile, and he can fly and has strong observation haki. He dodged crocodile sambles attack in Marineford without effort. Plus he create clones who can also use his string power. No way crocodile is a good counter to doffy. Why would you even says that doffy only has haki punches when he is like the only paramecia we have seen who can slice up logias with his df? For all this talk about how much DD is better than Crocodile, they seemed to be evenly matched at Marineford. | ||
|
Hyperbola
United States2555 Posts
| ||
| ||
