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On September 17 2013 02:23 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:14 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:06 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 01:50 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 01:10 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 23:25 sc2holar wrote:
...But then again you cant really have a theoretical discussion about devil fruits because a character like Doflamingo could one-shot every single character in the series (again save for Marco) with his instant decapitation thing he did to crocodile during marineford, except imbued with haki. And that obviously cant happen because of plot reasons. have you considered that Croccy took the attack on purpose like he did against Vivi? Dofla cant jsut decapicate everyone becuase theyd dodge or block it Why would he take it on purpose? so that the entire world watching the broadcast could see him lose his head? completley different situation than in alabasta. So far we havent seen anyone able to dodge or block Doflas attacks either, because they seem to happen rather instantly out of thin air... his head literary flew off the same second doffy moved his fingers, like, in the same motion. We dont know how his powers really work. the strings might appear surgically where he chooses to and instantly do what he wants them to. But i was just using Doflamingos DF as an example of how there are tons of devilfruits in the series that might appear overpowered and therefor underused, because the user has failed to become pirate king yet. Moriah is another example. in THEORY she should be able to defeat anyone by stealing their shadow and wait until they are consumed by sunlight. Or just do it in broad daylight. But Oda has a story and a plot to maintain. well Law is seeming to be doing a very good job of it What are you talking about? he is bleeding, he is trying to buy time and Doffy stated earlier to vergo that he wanted to take his time with law and make him regret he was ever born. Just like Vergo literary had Laws heart in his hands and was one push away from ending his life. entirely different scenarios, Dofla isnt taking it easy on Law if he thought he could go straight for the kill move he would before law pulls another trap on him Dofla thought 3 times on punk Hazard he had everything won (when Vergo and law fought, when Monet was going to amke everything boom and when Buffalo and Baby nabbed Casesor) and eac time it blew up in his face if hes taking his time in this scenario then hes just dumber then he looks Sorry but there is no way you are interpereting this situation right. As far as Doflamingo is concerned he has already won. Law has lost his warlord status while his remains intact. Law is lying on the floor bleeding and Luffy is stuck in a Battle Royale with some of the strongest fighters in the new world, along with the "Suits" in Donquixote Family to overlook and report to him, and the colosseum is sealed of by the CP0 and Marines. This time Law was in fact the overconfident one who fell for a trap he couldnt possibly foresee. DD has no reason not to be confident and allow himself to punish law for his betrayal. Should law cause any trouble, there is even an admiral present to back him up, remember?
the Admiral isnt backing Dofla up for anything the Admiral is trying to make Dofla as collateral damage while he captures Law
Dofla was sure he had laready won 4 freaking times on punk hazard and each time he realised that he hadnt won if he had the ability to just one shot law hed have dont it by now
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On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers?
That would imply that Ace wasn't able to do it. And he was worth 500 million back then, too.
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On September 17 2013 02:29 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:23 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:14 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:06 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 01:50 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 01:10 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 23:25 sc2holar wrote:
...But then again you cant really have a theoretical discussion about devil fruits because a character like Doflamingo could one-shot every single character in the series (again save for Marco) with his instant decapitation thing he did to crocodile during marineford, except imbued with haki. And that obviously cant happen because of plot reasons. have you considered that Croccy took the attack on purpose like he did against Vivi? Dofla cant jsut decapicate everyone becuase theyd dodge or block it Why would he take it on purpose? so that the entire world watching the broadcast could see him lose his head? completley different situation than in alabasta. So far we havent seen anyone able to dodge or block Doflas attacks either, because they seem to happen rather instantly out of thin air... his head literary flew off the same second doffy moved his fingers, like, in the same motion. We dont know how his powers really work. the strings might appear surgically where he chooses to and instantly do what he wants them to. But i was just using Doflamingos DF as an example of how there are tons of devilfruits in the series that might appear overpowered and therefor underused, because the user has failed to become pirate king yet. Moriah is another example. in THEORY she should be able to defeat anyone by stealing their shadow and wait until they are consumed by sunlight. Or just do it in broad daylight. But Oda has a story and a plot to maintain. well Law is seeming to be doing a very good job of it What are you talking about? he is bleeding, he is trying to buy time and Doffy stated earlier to vergo that he wanted to take his time with law and make him regret he was ever born. Just like Vergo literary had Laws heart in his hands and was one push away from ending his life. entirely different scenarios, Dofla isnt taking it easy on Law if he thought he could go straight for the kill move he would before law pulls another trap on him Dofla thought 3 times on punk Hazard he had everything won (when Vergo and law fought, when Monet was going to amke everything boom and when Buffalo and Baby nabbed Casesor) and eac time it blew up in his face if hes taking his time in this scenario then hes just dumber then he looks Sorry but there is no way you are interpereting this situation right. As far as Doflamingo is concerned he has already won. Law has lost his warlord status while his remains intact. Law is lying on the floor bleeding and Luffy is stuck in a Battle Royale with some of the strongest fighters in the new world, along with the "Suits" in Donquixote Family to overlook and report to him, and the colosseum is sealed of by the CP0 and Marines. This time Law was in fact the overconfident one who fell for a trap he couldnt possibly foresee. DD has no reason not to be confident and allow himself to punish law for his betrayal. Should law cause any trouble, there is even an admiral present to back him up, remember? the Admiral isnt backing Dofla up for anything the Admiral is trying to make Dofla as collateral damage while he captures Law Dofla was sure he had laready won 4 freaking times on punk hazard and each time he realised that he hadnt won if he had the ability to just one shot law hed have dont it by now
I think you need to go back and re-read the chapthers. This isnt Punk Hazard, This is on Doflamingos home turf, and he just caught Law in a trap that noone in the pirate alliance foresaw because it required tenriybuuto-level influence to pull off. He is in full control and even Law realized that. He is already injured and lying in front of the dudes feet, how could he possibly dodge him?
The Admiral isnt going after DD anymore. We dont know for sure if he ever was. The man is BLIND, remember? so you cant make a defenite statement saying he was trying to hit someone with collateral damage. This is a completly one-sided battle, and already back in Mock Town we learned that DD is a sadistic freak who likes to torture his former subordinates who betray or "fail" him. Law has angered him more than anyone else, so why should he not take his time when everything is looking in his favor right now? If Law was in any position to dodge, shouldnt he have done so BEFORE getting all the injuries?
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On September 17 2013 02:45 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers? That would imply that Ace wasn't able to do it. And he was worth 500 million back then, too.
True. Guess you need an ultra strong non-DF user to handle BB. Maybe Mihawk and Garp should team up and go after him.
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On September 17 2013 02:45 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:29 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:23 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:14 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:06 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 01:50 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 01:10 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 23:25 sc2holar wrote:
...But then again you cant really have a theoretical discussion about devil fruits because a character like Doflamingo could one-shot every single character in the series (again save for Marco) with his instant decapitation thing he did to crocodile during marineford, except imbued with haki. And that obviously cant happen because of plot reasons. have you considered that Croccy took the attack on purpose like he did against Vivi? Dofla cant jsut decapicate everyone becuase theyd dodge or block it Why would he take it on purpose? so that the entire world watching the broadcast could see him lose his head? completley different situation than in alabasta. So far we havent seen anyone able to dodge or block Doflas attacks either, because they seem to happen rather instantly out of thin air... his head literary flew off the same second doffy moved his fingers, like, in the same motion. We dont know how his powers really work. the strings might appear surgically where he chooses to and instantly do what he wants them to. But i was just using Doflamingos DF as an example of how there are tons of devilfruits in the series that might appear overpowered and therefor underused, because the user has failed to become pirate king yet. Moriah is another example. in THEORY she should be able to defeat anyone by stealing their shadow and wait until they are consumed by sunlight. Or just do it in broad daylight. But Oda has a story and a plot to maintain. well Law is seeming to be doing a very good job of it What are you talking about? he is bleeding, he is trying to buy time and Doffy stated earlier to vergo that he wanted to take his time with law and make him regret he was ever born. Just like Vergo literary had Laws heart in his hands and was one push away from ending his life. entirely different scenarios, Dofla isnt taking it easy on Law if he thought he could go straight for the kill move he would before law pulls another trap on him Dofla thought 3 times on punk Hazard he had everything won (when Vergo and law fought, when Monet was going to amke everything boom and when Buffalo and Baby nabbed Casesor) and eac time it blew up in his face if hes taking his time in this scenario then hes just dumber then he looks Sorry but there is no way you are interpereting this situation right. As far as Doflamingo is concerned he has already won. Law has lost his warlord status while his remains intact. Law is lying on the floor bleeding and Luffy is stuck in a Battle Royale with some of the strongest fighters in the new world, along with the "Suits" in Donquixote Family to overlook and report to him, and the colosseum is sealed of by the CP0 and Marines. This time Law was in fact the overconfident one who fell for a trap he couldnt possibly foresee. DD has no reason not to be confident and allow himself to punish law for his betrayal. Should law cause any trouble, there is even an admiral present to back him up, remember? the Admiral isnt backing Dofla up for anything the Admiral is trying to make Dofla as collateral damage while he captures Law Dofla was sure he had laready won 4 freaking times on punk hazard and each time he realised that he hadnt won if he had the ability to just one shot law hed have dont it by now I think you need to go back and re-read the chapthers. This isnt Punk Hazard, This is on Doflamingos home turf, and he just caught Law in a trap that noone in the pirate alliance foresaw because it required tenriybuuto-level influence to pull off. He is in full control and even Law realized that. He is already injured and lying in front of the dudes feet, how could he possibly dodge him? The Admiral isnt going after DD anymore. We dont know for sure if he ever was. The man is BLIND, remember? so you cant make a defenite statement saying he was trying to hit someone with collateral damage. This is a completly one-sided battle, and already back in Mock Town we learned that DD is a sadistic freak who likes to torture his former subordinates who betray or "fail" him. Law has angered him more than anyone else, so why should he not take his time when everything is looking in his favor right now? If Law was in any position to dodge, shouldnt he have done so BEFORE getting all the injuries?
have you ever considered each injury was Dofla going for a kill move and Law 90% dodging them? saying that Dofla has the ability to kill anyone he wants instantly with no chance of them dodging or blocking it is ridiculous
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On September 17 2013 02:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:45 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:29 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:23 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:14 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 02:06 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 02:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 01:50 sc2holar wrote:On September 17 2013 01:10 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 23:25 sc2holar wrote:
...But then again you cant really have a theoretical discussion about devil fruits because a character like Doflamingo could one-shot every single character in the series (again save for Marco) with his instant decapitation thing he did to crocodile during marineford, except imbued with haki. And that obviously cant happen because of plot reasons. have you considered that Croccy took the attack on purpose like he did against Vivi? Dofla cant jsut decapicate everyone becuase theyd dodge or block it Why would he take it on purpose? so that the entire world watching the broadcast could see him lose his head? completley different situation than in alabasta. So far we havent seen anyone able to dodge or block Doflas attacks either, because they seem to happen rather instantly out of thin air... his head literary flew off the same second doffy moved his fingers, like, in the same motion. We dont know how his powers really work. the strings might appear surgically where he chooses to and instantly do what he wants them to. But i was just using Doflamingos DF as an example of how there are tons of devilfruits in the series that might appear overpowered and therefor underused, because the user has failed to become pirate king yet. Moriah is another example. in THEORY she should be able to defeat anyone by stealing their shadow and wait until they are consumed by sunlight. Or just do it in broad daylight. But Oda has a story and a plot to maintain. well Law is seeming to be doing a very good job of it What are you talking about? he is bleeding, he is trying to buy time and Doffy stated earlier to vergo that he wanted to take his time with law and make him regret he was ever born. Just like Vergo literary had Laws heart in his hands and was one push away from ending his life. entirely different scenarios, Dofla isnt taking it easy on Law if he thought he could go straight for the kill move he would before law pulls another trap on him Dofla thought 3 times on punk Hazard he had everything won (when Vergo and law fought, when Monet was going to amke everything boom and when Buffalo and Baby nabbed Casesor) and eac time it blew up in his face if hes taking his time in this scenario then hes just dumber then he looks Sorry but there is no way you are interpereting this situation right. As far as Doflamingo is concerned he has already won. Law has lost his warlord status while his remains intact. Law is lying on the floor bleeding and Luffy is stuck in a Battle Royale with some of the strongest fighters in the new world, along with the "Suits" in Donquixote Family to overlook and report to him, and the colosseum is sealed of by the CP0 and Marines. This time Law was in fact the overconfident one who fell for a trap he couldnt possibly foresee. DD has no reason not to be confident and allow himself to punish law for his betrayal. Should law cause any trouble, there is even an admiral present to back him up, remember? the Admiral isnt backing Dofla up for anything the Admiral is trying to make Dofla as collateral damage while he captures Law Dofla was sure he had laready won 4 freaking times on punk hazard and each time he realised that he hadnt won if he had the ability to just one shot law hed have dont it by now I think you need to go back and re-read the chapthers. This isnt Punk Hazard, This is on Doflamingos home turf, and he just caught Law in a trap that noone in the pirate alliance foresaw because it required tenriybuuto-level influence to pull off. He is in full control and even Law realized that. He is already injured and lying in front of the dudes feet, how could he possibly dodge him? The Admiral isnt going after DD anymore. We dont know for sure if he ever was. The man is BLIND, remember? so you cant make a defenite statement saying he was trying to hit someone with collateral damage. This is a completly one-sided battle, and already back in Mock Town we learned that DD is a sadistic freak who likes to torture his former subordinates who betray or "fail" him. Law has angered him more than anyone else, so why should he not take his time when everything is looking in his favor right now? If Law was in any position to dodge, shouldnt he have done so BEFORE getting all the injuries? have you ever considered each injury was Dofla going for a kill move and Law 90% dodging them? saying that Dofla has the ability to kill anyone he wants instantly with no chance of them dodging or blocking it is ridiculous
No, im going with the "Im going to kill him slowly and make him regret that he was ever born". Because thats what he said he would do. Sounds more likely than a guy lying helpless on the ground somehow dodging invisible strings that you cant see. If DD wanted a sure kill im sure he could hurl a web of strings (like the one that had big enough AoE shred a meteor to tiny rocks) Law would never be able to dodge that in the condition he is in.
There are many characters that can theoreticly kill anyone (again, except marco!) almost instantly without them being able to do jack shit about it, because Oda likes to create DFs that look imbalanced on paper. Thats my point. Kizaru could have killed Luffy back in Marineford with his light-speed-ultra-lazor-light beams had he just aimed for his heart and not the key he was holding. But then the Manga would be over. Sometimes you have to compromise and make under-use of DFs for the story to work.
Heck, Magellan could probably come to dressrosa and wipe out out every single character there with his contagious ultra-venom and end the Manga in the next chapted if he wanted to. Its not gonna happen though.
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On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 13 2013 04:22 Lysteria wrote:
Moria's sidekicks were more interesting than him.
But his fruit was awesome, good thing he was too much of a retard to use it properly.
Exactly like the character that shall not be named. who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard.
Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be?
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On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers?
That's actually a pretty interesting point
Edit: Um, that said I think people are overthinking devil fruits in general. DF gives some power yes but it really affects fighting style more than anything. What about people without DF? You would think that they couldn't do anything against DF, but that's just not the case.
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I think someone completely ignores the existence of observation haki that allows you to know where things are without even looking. Invisible doesn't mean unavoidable.
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On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers?
I am certain that a strong haku user can indeed shield himself from BB's devil fruit. I think the point of introducing busoshoku haki was to make sure that no character is invinsible, regardless of their DF powers. The beauty of haki is also that people with paramecia and zoan DF's, and even people without DF powers, can still stay relevant. With haki everyone can be flat out stronger than everyone else, devil fruit or not.
EDIT:
As to why Ace didn't manage to use haki against BB it could be that his haki simply wasen't strong enough. Keep in mind that while Ace was indeed a very strong character, BB might already have been stronger than Ace even before he got his darkness fruit.
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On September 17 2013 05:52 Mataza wrote:
I think someone completely ignores the existence of observation haki that allows you to know where things are without even looking. Invisible doesn't mean unavoidable.
If you refer to my posts, then i ofc added OH into the equation. OH is never perfect, and the easiest way to counter it is to simply cover as wide area of effect as possible (like gomu gomu giant gattling)
OH is mostly useful to dodge projectiles and parrying sword attacks, wich is why zoro is so adept at it. Wont help you against lets say Ice Age, Sables, Hydra etc.
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On September 17 2013 06:18 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers? I am certain that a strong haku user can indeed shield himself from BB's devil fruit. I think the point of introducing busoshoku haki was to make sure that no character is invinsible, regardless of their DF powers. The beauty of haki is also that people with paramecia and zoan DF's, and even people without DF powers, can still stay relevant. With haki everyone can be flat out stronger than everyone else, devil fruit or not. EDIT: As to why Ace didn't manage to use haki against BB it could be that his haki simply wasen't strong enough. Keep in mind that while Ace was indeed a very strong character, BB might already have been stronger than Ace even before he got his darkness fruit.
You have many good points. BB was almost 20 years older than ace and joined WB back when his crew was still clashing with Roger, so he probably had lots of experience. Not to mention the fact that Whitebeard warned Ace about going after Blackbeard even before he had any idea of what fruit he had picked up, and considering Ace's power and position as second division commander, i think we can asume that Whitebeard always knew Teach was noone to fuck with.
He almost broke Ace neck with a single punch, remember. And he can absorb almost obscene amounts of damage despite the YYNMs weakness.
Something i have been pondering as of late though is how BH works with logia elemental attacks. have we ever seen an undisputed example of a B. Haki imbued Logia elemental attack? i mean ace could cover roughly half the size of a town with fire when he fought BB. Could you possibly imbue that much damage and destruction with Haki?
We have seen Paramecia ability attacks imbued with haki, but i cant remember any case of Logia based attacks painted black. but i dont have the best picture memory either.
But i can see why Kaido is going for a mass Zoan Army. Since consuming a Zoan fruit is said to multiply your basic fighting power by about 10x, it should be the the optimal class for adept B. Haki users.
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On September 17 2013 06:18 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 00:41 sc2holar wrote:On September 16 2013 23:39 Mataza wrote:
Didn't we agree last time that "physical essence" is humbug?
And the darkness fruit did 2 things:
It allowed him to spread darkness and absorb things, including people, into it.
On touch it completely nullifies someones DF ability, similar to seastone.
Haki merely allows you to combat Logia users. It doesn't stop them from using their df powers. I meant physical body. Its established that Logia users cannot use their DF powers to regenerate lets say lost limbs, if you cut it off with haki/seastone or they are simply not in their elemental form at the time. Marco can do this though. What people forget about arnament haki is that its actually (the way Rayleigh explains it to Luffy anyways) mainly a form of "Armor". being able to hit Logia users is a side-effect of the haki warding your body from their element, hence also allowing you to bypass it with your attacks. So the question is, could you use Haki to sheild yourself from the Yami Yami no Mi's DF negating powers? I am certain that a strong haku user can indeed shield himself from BB's devil fruit. I think the point of introducing busoshoku haki was to make sure that no character is invinsible, regardless of their DF powers. The beauty of haki is also that people with paramecia and zoan DF's, and even people without DF powers, can still stay relevant. With haki everyone can be flat out stronger than everyone else, devil fruit or not. EDIT: As to why Ace didn't manage to use haki against BB it could be that his haki simply wasen't strong enough. Keep in mind that while Ace was indeed a very strong character, BB might already have been stronger than Ace even before he got his darkness fruit.
i highly doubt it TBH, blackbeards fruit only works if hes touching you so its not so broken that DF users need a way to counter it, the best way to counter his fruit is just to sock him one in the face
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On September 17 2013 03:36 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 13 2013 04:22 Lysteria wrote:
Moria's sidekicks were more interesting than him.
But his fruit was awesome, good thing he was too much of a retard to use it properly.
Exactly like the character that shall not be named. who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard. Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be?
Wait, this isn't Berserk? LOL. No, I never said that I wanted that to happen. Just that Foxy could use his fruit more effectively. He was a silly character and did silly things and that's fine in One Piece, but I disagreed with the notion that he used his fruit intelligently. He could be a lot scarier and more effective as a fighter if he was more brutal.
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On September 17 2013 12:15 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 03:36 Sentenal wrote:On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 13 2013 04:22 Lysteria wrote:
Moria's sidekicks were more interesting than him.
But his fruit was awesome, good thing he was too much of a retard to use it properly.
Exactly like the character that shall not be named. who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard. Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be? Wait, this isn't Berserk? LOL. No, I never said that I wanted that to happen. Just that Foxy could use his fruit more effectively. He was a silly character and did silly things and that's fine in One Piece, but I disagreed with the notion that he used his fruit intelligently. He could be a lot scarier and more effective as a fighter if he was more brutal.
aside from slitting a heelpless opponents throat (which we cant say for certain he can even do) i cant see how he could ahve gotten more mileage out of his fruit
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On September 17 2013 12:26 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 12:15 RenSC2 wrote:On September 17 2013 03:36 Sentenal wrote:On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 13 2013 04:22 Lysteria wrote:
Moria's sidekicks were more interesting than him.
But his fruit was awesome, good thing he was too much of a retard to use it properly.
Exactly like the character that shall not be named. who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard. Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be? Wait, this isn't Berserk? LOL. No, I never said that I wanted that to happen. Just that Foxy could use his fruit more effectively. He was a silly character and did silly things and that's fine in One Piece, but I disagreed with the notion that he used his fruit intelligently. He could be a lot scarier and more effective as a fighter if he was more brutal. aside from slitting a heelpless opponents throat (which we cant say for certain he can even do) i cant see how he could ahve gotten more mileage out of his fruit
Okay, he can train up his ability so that it could hit a larger area. Then rather than play stupid games, he could use his beam on the enemy's ship before they know what ability he has. Then while the enemy's whole ship is nearly frozen, he can have his crew fire a huge amount of cannonballs at the ship. That way, no opponent will have the ability to defend their ship and any opposing ship will be sunk almost instantly. For any opposing crew trying to escape, he can noro noro beam them, and then have his crew tie something very heavy to each member to drag them down to the bottom. The only group this tactic wouldn't be effective against would be fishmen pirates.
There was plenty he could have done if he was willing to be more brutal. I've just scratched the surface of it. Can't believe I'm having an argument over Foxy, last post from me on this topic.
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On September 17 2013 12:40 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 12:26 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 12:15 RenSC2 wrote:On September 17 2013 03:36 Sentenal wrote:On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:
[quote]
who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard. Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be? Wait, this isn't Berserk? LOL. No, I never said that I wanted that to happen. Just that Foxy could use his fruit more effectively. He was a silly character and did silly things and that's fine in One Piece, but I disagreed with the notion that he used his fruit intelligently. He could be a lot scarier and more effective as a fighter if he was more brutal. aside from slitting a heelpless opponents throat (which we cant say for certain he can even do) i cant see how he could ahve gotten more mileage out of his fruit Okay, he can train up his ability so that it could hit a larger area. Then rather than play stupid games, he could use his beam on the enemy's ship before they know what ability he has. Then while the enemy's whole ship is nearly frozen, he can have his crew fire a huge amount of cannonballs at the ship. That way, no opponent will have the ability to defend their ship and any opposing ship will be sunk almost instantly. For any opposing crew trying to escape, he can noro noro beam them, and then have his crew tie something very heavy to each member to drag them down to the bottom. The only group this tactic wouldn't be effective against would be fishmen pirates. There was plenty he could have done if he was willing to be more brutal. I've just scratched the surface of it. Can't believe I'm having an argument over Foxy, last post from me on this topic.
Its more like... Why would you even suggest any of that as a possibility for One Piece? Why is ridiculously bloody and brutal the only want to effectively use a Devil Fruit, to you?
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One Piece is only bloodfree until Zoro fights.
He uses swords and he cuts his enemies and blood is everywhere.
I can't believe that people act like One Piece has only cartoon violence.
The tone heavily shifts when serious swordfights begin. I think Zoros fight against Monet was the most kid friendly fight Zoro had in the entire manga. At all other times Zoro is at least drenched in his own blood.
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Luffy vs Don Krieg ? Blood was everywhere and even chemical weapons were used.
Also it's funny how good One Piece was from the get go. Like, thinking back then about Don Krieg and shit just made me remember how good it was back then, it's still good now. Pretty amazing
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On September 17 2013 12:40 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 12:26 Forikorder wrote:On September 17 2013 12:15 RenSC2 wrote:On September 17 2013 03:36 Sentenal wrote:On September 16 2013 11:53 RenSC2 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:24 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 11:15 DODswe4 wrote:On September 16 2013 11:03 Forikorder wrote:On September 16 2013 05:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:
[quote]
who is this character that has an awesome fruit but still sucked? i can only think of moria You could argue that Buggy or even Blueno don't use their fruits to their full potential, but the worst offender is obviously Foxy. how is Foxy the worst offender? the only reason he was even an opponent Luffy didnt one shot 3 seconds into the fight was because of hius creative use of his fruit its not about strenght but about if they are using their fruit to a good extent, and Foxy does not use it very well at all are we talking about the same Foxy? the dude from the wierd crown island thing where they had that wierd contest thing? its been a while since i read it but how is he supposed to use his fruit better? Noro noro beam opponent + slit throat = GG killshot Noro noro beam opponent + kairoseki handcuffs = captured DF user Unless there's some haki way to resist noro noro beams, the fruit truly was overpowered. I wonder if he'll come back someday. Foxy felt like such a filler arc character. I started off watching the anime and then went back and read the manga and was very surprised when Foxy actually showed up in the manga. He's definitely one that underused his fruit, partially due to his own physical weakness. There are many others that really barely scratched the surface of their fruit or completely underutilized it during the fight vs the Strawhats. Many characters could come back and be significantly more powerful if they trained as hard. Wtf, you wanted Foxy to go around slitting people's throats? Just what sort of manga do you want One Piece to be? Wait, this isn't Berserk? LOL. No, I never said that I wanted that to happen. Just that Foxy could use his fruit more effectively. He was a silly character and did silly things and that's fine in One Piece, but I disagreed with the notion that he used his fruit intelligently. He could be a lot scarier and more effective as a fighter if he was more brutal. aside from slitting a heelpless opponents throat (which we cant say for certain he can even do) i cant see how he could ahve gotten more mileage out of his fruit Okay, he can train up his ability so that it could hit a larger area. Then rather than play stupid games, he could use his beam on the enemy's ship before they know what ability he has. Then while the enemy's whole ship is nearly frozen, he can have his crew fire a huge amount of cannonballs at the ship. That way, no opponent will have the ability to defend their ship and any opposing ship will be sunk almost instantly. For any opposing crew trying to escape, he can noro noro beam them, and then have his crew tie something very heavy to each member to drag them down to the bottom. The only group this tactic wouldn't be effective against would be fishmen pirates. There was plenty he could have done if he was willing to be more brutal. I've just scratched the surface of it. Can't believe I'm having an argument over Foxy, last post from me on this topic.
why do you assume his beam can be trained to hit larger area at alrger range?
and when have we ever seen ship to ship combat between pirate sin OP?
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EPT
