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On September 09 2013 01:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
And I'm also really sure there's more to Conqueror's Haki than knocking people out in a certain radius without being able to control who's affected. Would be a tremendously useless ability otherwise.
I think it's the opposite, it would be pretty much OP (and boring) if Whitebeard could take out the thousands of marines at Marineford without drawback.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 09 2013 01:32 mavignon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 01:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
And I'm also really sure there's more to Conqueror's Haki than knocking people out in a certain radius without being able to control who's affected. Would be a tremendously useless ability otherwise. I think it's the opposite, it would be pretty much OP (and boring) if Whitebeard could take out the thousands of marines at Marineford without drawback.
The drawback? He'd knock his entire crew and allies as well? If there was no controlling Conqueror's Haki.
And it's supposed to be absolutely overpowered.
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On September 09 2013 01:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 01:32 mavignon wrote:On September 09 2013 01:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
And I'm also really sure there's more to Conqueror's Haki than knocking people out in a certain radius without being able to control who's affected. Would be a tremendously useless ability otherwise. I think it's the opposite, it would be pretty much OP (and boring) if Whitebeard could take out the thousands of marines at Marineford without drawback. The drawback? He'd knock his entire crew and allies as well? If there was no controlling Conqueror's Haki. And it's supposed to be absolutely overpowered.
Yeah that's what I am saying. But some people say Haki can be controlled to the extent that you can choose which people get affected or not.
Anyway we know for sure (well almost) that Whitebeard couldn't use haki during the war, otherwise he would have not been backstabbed.
So whatever one thinks about conqueror's haki, we can't say that WB not using it during the war is a plot hole.
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On September 08 2013 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 12:59 Forikorder wrote:On September 08 2013 02:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol whitebeard didnt strategise shit. he just watched and said a bunch of things that were hardly relevant to fighting strategies. and the fact that he still could have used his conquerors haki but didnt is unexplainable its not like he foiled budhas dude plan by having the ships spread out meaning they werent all clustered in the trap or anything
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
i think its more aimable then controllable Luffy could aim it so only the fakies were in the AoE but Whitebeard would ahve to engulf the whole fraking bay remember when whitebeard and Shanks say howdy do and whiteys crewmates started going foam up? yeah and he totally made that plan up on the spot. ???????????? he didnt do strategise shit AT THE ACTUAL FIGHT
YES HE DID
he figured out Budhas dude trap and on the spot gave orders to foil it
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Austria24422 Posts
How is Whitebeard being partially unable to use Haki a plothole? What if there's a reason for it? He's shown to have health issues repeatedly, who knows how that affected his use of Haki. Oda doesn't have to explicitly tell us something for it to happen. There may be a reason that we were just not clearly told. That's not a plothole in that case.
And yes, I do believe that you can target people with Conqueror's Haki. Hell, I believe there's a lot more to it than targetting small fry and making them faint.
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his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak.
On September 09 2013 01:58 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 08 2013 12:59 Forikorder wrote:On September 08 2013 02:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol whitebeard didnt strategise shit. he just watched and said a bunch of things that were hardly relevant to fighting strategies. and the fact that he still could have used his conquerors haki but didnt is unexplainable its not like he foiled budhas dude plan by having the ships spread out meaning they werent all clustered in the trap or anything
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
i think its more aimable then controllable Luffy could aim it so only the fakies were in the AoE but Whitebeard would ahve to engulf the whole fraking bay remember when whitebeard and Shanks say howdy do and whiteys crewmates started going foam up? yeah and he totally made that plan up on the spot. ???????????? he didnt do strategise shit AT THE ACTUAL FIGHT YES HE DID he figured out Budhas dude trap and on the spot gave orders to foil it
yeah good job you managed to point out something that happens at the start. whitebeard stayed quiet for most of the fight until near the end.
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Why argue against facts? his health is mentioned alot of times in the manga as holding him back.
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On September 09 2013 02:13 evilfatsh1t wrote:his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak.Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 01:58 Forikorder wrote:On September 08 2013 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:On September 08 2013 12:59 Forikorder wrote:On September 08 2013 02:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol whitebeard didnt strategise shit. he just watched and said a bunch of things that were hardly relevant to fighting strategies. and the fact that he still could have used his conquerors haki but didnt is unexplainable its not like he foiled budhas dude plan by having the ships spread out meaning they werent all clustered in the trap or anything
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
i think its more aimable then controllable Luffy could aim it so only the fakies were in the AoE but Whitebeard would ahve to engulf the whole fraking bay remember when whitebeard and Shanks say howdy do and whiteys crewmates started going foam up? yeah and he totally made that plan up on the spot. ???????????? he didnt do strategise shit AT THE ACTUAL FIGHT YES HE DID he figured out Budhas dude trap and on the spot gave orders to foil it yeah good job you managed to point out something that happens at the start. whitebeard stayed quiet for most of the fight until near the end.
It absolutely does. What if his illness is such that a normal person would be completely incapacitated, or dead, and Whitebeard is only able to function through using a considerable amount of his vast willpower? Not saying that's the case for sure, but it's very possible.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 09 2013 02:13 evilfatsh1t wrote:
his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak.
Because he was literally tied to his medicine until the very second he clashed with Shanks.
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On September 08 2013 22:40 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 22:35 Afmug wrote:On September 08 2013 18:55 AsnSensation wrote:On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage. that sounds reasonable. @Dekker I also find it a bit weird that pretimeskip all the Strawhats and friends (camie&Hacci) were unaffected by it already. But I guess it would be kinda dumb if Chopper/usopp/Nami suddenly fainted there xD. I guess it was explained that it only affects the weak minded and considering that our friends all went through some hard ships in the past it makes them strong in that regard. wrong. obviously rayleigh targeted everyone in the room except the strawhats and their friends, there is no other explanation. kidd, mr. at-the-time-315-mil, was sweating due to rayleighs haki, while characters like nami and usopp felt nothing. kidd has later made it in the new world, proving that he has a strong will, and usopp and nami does not have kidd's will or strength, or they would be much, much, much stronger now after two years of training. the only reasonable conclusion, and the absolutely most obvious one, is that rayliegh is a very skilled haki user and TARGETED SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS in the room. why is this even being discussed? We don't know yet the current level of Ussop and Nami. I think they are strong enough not the faint.
the "current" level of usopp and nami is perfectly irrelevant, this was pre-timeskip. they were weak as fuck.
On September 08 2013 23:49 mavignon wrote:It is discussed to find out if Whitebeard not using the Conqueror's haki at Marineford is a plothole or not. If you want to come across arrogant, try at the very least to follow the discussion.
it was a rhetorical question. i know that we are discussing whitebeard, i've been following this thread for like 100 pages now. the question "why are we even discussing this" states that i think that the entire conversation is silly, beacause whitebeard was thoroughly weakend due to a stab through the chest (!) and an unknown disease.
if i'm even allowed to state a theory of mine without getting lynched i'd say old man whitebeard himself hasnt been in a real fight in a long time, letting his "sons" do most of it all for him due to him knowing his own limitations. and in the spirit of being a protective father, he would keep his greatly weakened state from most, pretty much all, of his crew. but this last part is a theory of mine.
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are people forgetting that whitebeard pretty much beat the shit out of akainu?
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On September 09 2013 02:13 evilfatsh1t wrote:
his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak.
Yeah no, physical pain and stress can and will affect your ability to concentrate.
Strength of mind and body are independent, but that's the only thing in which they're independent. If your mind is preccupied, you will make mistakes even at easy physical tasks. Likewise you will have trouble concentrating under pain or while suffering sickness.
I envy you if you know neither from your own experience.
In any case Whitebeard was already in need of having medical machinery and nurses around, from the few chapters we saw of him. Rayleigh may be old, too, but he wasn't sick enough to need medical attention.
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Sanji only has observation Haki atm right? When does everyone think that he will learn armanent Haki? I mean in his fight against Vergo he could barely withstand his attacks without his legs breaking.
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On September 09 2013 08:24 Elerris wrote:
Sanji only has observation Haki atm right? When does everyone think that he will learn armanent Haki? I mean in his fight against Vergo he could barely withstand his attacks without his legs breaking.
He was actually quite impressive to withstand those hits without any kind of haki when Vergo was using it 24/7 all over his body. If and when he learns it, he will def be OP lol.
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his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak.
ya lets ignore all the tubes he was hooked up to seconds before...
yeah good job you managed to point out something that happens at the start. whitebeard stayed quiet for most of the fight until near the end.
thats because its a straight up fight, theres not much you can strategize when it somes to frontal assaults
Sanji only has observation Haki atm right? When does everyone think that he will learn armanent Haki? I mean in his fight against Vergo he could barely withstand his attacks without his legs breaking.
90% certain he has both hes jsut best at observation
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Sanji has both types of haki. He was stated to be able to hit logia.
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On September 09 2013 12:34 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak. ya lets ignore all the tubes he was hooked up to seconds before... Show nested quote +
yeah good job you managed to point out something that happens at the start. whitebeard stayed quiet for most of the fight until near the end.
thats because its a straight up fight, theres not much you can strategize when it somes to frontal assaults Show nested quote +Sanji only has observation Haki atm right? When does everyone think that he will learn armanent Haki? I mean in his fight against Vergo he could barely withstand his attacks without his legs breaking. 90% certain he has both hes jsut best at observation
Yeah thats exactly my point you idiot. In a straight up fight he didnt do jack for like more than half the war. And dont pretend his health was so bad he couldnt do anything, in the end he still owned akainu despite being stabbed and having 2 holes punched in him and half his face burnt off.
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On September 09 2013 15:22 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 12:34 Forikorder wrote:his health issues didnt seem to affect him at all during him and shanks' little standoff on the boat. why would it affect him at the war. besides, conquerors haki is supposed to be a measure of your willpower. just because your body is suffering physically it doesnt mean youre mentally weak. ya lets ignore all the tubes he was hooked up to seconds before...
yeah good job you managed to point out something that happens at the start. whitebeard stayed quiet for most of the fight until near the end.
thats because its a straight up fight, theres not much you can strategize when it somes to frontal assaults Sanji only has observation Haki atm right? When does everyone think that he will learn armanent Haki? I mean in his fight against Vergo he could barely withstand his attacks without his legs breaking. 90% certain he has both hes jsut best at observation Yeah thats exactly my point you idiot. In a straight up fight he didnt do jack for like more than half the war. And dont pretend his health was so bad he couldnt do anything, in the end he still owned akainu despite being stabbed and having 2 holes punched in him and half his face burnt off.
you never play your ace first its jsut screaming for it to get countered same reasons why the Admirals and Sichi stayed back for so long
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...? When did i say he should be the first to get in a fist fight? Im saying he is supposed to have conquerors haki, and considering the amount of damage he dealt at the end of the war with all those injuries, he definitely should have been able to use it. But the fact that he didnt do anything and in the end it was up to luffys unreliable haki just shows oda attempted to make luffy the hero while making whitebeard look like the guy who just breaks shit but doesnt really achieve anything in the end. Plothole
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On September 09 2013 12:38 Wildmoon wrote:
Sanji has both types of haki. He was stated to be able to hit logia.
Indeed, people need to read more carefully. Zoro can also use Armament and Observation Haki, possibly even Conqueror's Haki (if Luffy is future Pirate King and Zoro is number 2, then Zoro = Rayleigh so he has Conqueror's Haki).
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EPT
