|
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
On September 08 2013 06:10 mavignon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:05 Incognoto wrote:On September 08 2013 05:58 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood you can't target people with conqueror haki. It's more like a shockwave knocking everyone in its path. If WB had used his, he would have taken out most of his own allies. From what we know, Whitebeard wouldn't even think about using a weapon that could hurt the people he considers as his children. Not to mention that it would be useless against foes that matter like the admirals and the shichibukai.
Actually him using conqueror's haki would have been the plot hole... It's inconsistent with the character. i think it's more that it wouldn't have worked vs admirals/shichibukai since he didn't need to use it to take out small fry. conqueror's haki can be targeted, see what rayleigh did when he first met luffy and also see luffy vs fake luffy and rayleigh also telling luffy not to use it until he's learned how to master it or else he'll use it on allies or something I remember that when Rayleigh used it in the auction house some crewmen of Law were dizzy. If Rayleigh could choose the targets, those people would have either fainted or felt nothing. In all the examples you mention, only small fries were affected
Well Law and Kidd were sweating aswell but it is pretty clear that Rayleigh and most defiantly others can control who is affected by the blast as shown when he only knocked out the guy who owned the shop when he was trying to put the collar of caime(unless that was anime only but his entrance on the hall still proves that point). (imo) Just because people aren't the target of something doesn't mean they aren't effected by it shown by people being aware that luffy was the one in Marineford releasing it despite being involved in skirmishes at the time and the pirates in the hall while not being knocked unconscious where affected by it.
|
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
|
On September 08 2013 06:10 mavignon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:05 Incognoto wrote:On September 08 2013 05:58 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood you can't target people with conqueror haki. It's more like a shockwave knocking everyone in its path. If WB had used his, he would have taken out most of his own allies. From what we know, Whitebeard wouldn't even think about using a weapon that could hurt the people he considers as his children. Not to mention that it would be useless against foes that matter like the admirals and the shichibukai.
Actually him using conqueror's haki would have been the plot hole... It's inconsistent with the character. i think it's more that it wouldn't have worked vs admirals/shichibukai since he didn't need to use it to take out small fry. conqueror's haki can be targeted, see what rayleigh did when he first met luffy and also see luffy vs fake luffy and rayleigh also telling luffy not to use it until he's learned how to master it or else he'll use it on allies or something I remember that when Rayleigh used it in the auction house some crewmen of Law were dizzy. If Rayleigh could choose the targets, those people would have either fainted or felt nothing. In all the examples you mention, only small fries were affected
Looking up that scene i just noticed that doflamingo mentiones the smiles in a converstation, almost 200 chapters before its revealed on punk hazard. Dont know if this has been mentioned before here.
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2611-6/one-piece/chapter-504.html
|
On September 08 2013 06:30 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:10 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:05 Incognoto wrote:On September 08 2013 05:58 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood you can't target people with conqueror haki. It's more like a shockwave knocking everyone in its path. If WB had used his, he would have taken out most of his own allies. From what we know, Whitebeard wouldn't even think about using a weapon that could hurt the people he considers as his children. Not to mention that it would be useless against foes that matter like the admirals and the shichibukai.
Actually him using conqueror's haki would have been the plot hole... It's inconsistent with the character. i think it's more that it wouldn't have worked vs admirals/shichibukai since he didn't need to use it to take out small fry. conqueror's haki can be targeted, see what rayleigh did when he first met luffy and also see luffy vs fake luffy and rayleigh also telling luffy not to use it until he's learned how to master it or else he'll use it on allies or something I remember that when Rayleigh used it in the auction house some crewmen of Law were dizzy. If Rayleigh could choose the targets, those people would have either fainted or felt nothing. In all the examples you mention, only small fries were affected Looking up that scene i just noticed that doflamingo mentiones the smiles in a converstation, almost 200 chapters before its revealed on punk hazard. Dont know if this has been mentioned before here. http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2611-6/one-piece/chapter-504.html
It's shit like this.
I love Oda.
|
funny thing is that when that chapter was released everyone didn't know what the fuck "smiles" are (obviously) and just assumed it was a translation error.
|
On September 08 2013 02:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol whitebeard didnt strategise shit. he just watched and said a bunch of things that were hardly relevant to fighting strategies. and the fact that he still could have used his conquerors haki but didnt is unexplainable
its not like he foiled budhas dude plan by having the ships spread out meaning they werent all clustered in the trap or anything
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
i think its more aimable then controllable Luffy could aim it so only the fakies were in the AoE but Whitebeard would ahve to engulf the whole fraking bay
remember when whitebeard and Shanks say howdy do and whiteys crewmates started going foam up?
|
On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water.
Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range.
That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage.
|
On September 08 2013 12:59 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 02:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol whitebeard didnt strategise shit. he just watched and said a bunch of things that were hardly relevant to fighting strategies. and the fact that he still could have used his conquerors haki but didnt is unexplainable its not like he foiled budhas dude plan by having the ships spread out meaning they werent all clustered in the trap or anything Show nested quote +
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel.
i think its more aimable then controllable Luffy could aim it so only the fakies were in the AoE but Whitebeard would ahve to engulf the whole fraking bay remember when whitebeard and Shanks say howdy do and whiteys crewmates started going foam up?
yeah and he totally made that plan up on the spot. ????????????
he didnt do strategise shit AT THE ACTUAL FIGHT
|
On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:
Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water.
Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range.
That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage.
If that were the case he would have knocked out all of the strawhats, too. They were all standing between the soldiers of the auction house fighting. Also, why didn't Caimie get affacted, too?
|
On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage.
that sounds reasonable.
@Dekker I also find it a bit weird that pretimeskip all the Strawhats and friends (camie&Hacci) were unaffected by it already. But I guess it would be kinda dumb if Chopper/usopp/Nami suddenly fainted there xD. I guess it was explained that it only affects the weak minded and considering that our friends all went through some hard ships in the past it makes them strong in that regard.
|
On September 08 2013 06:30 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:10 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:05 Incognoto wrote:On September 08 2013 05:58 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood you can't target people with conqueror haki. It's more like a shockwave knocking everyone in its path. If WB had used his, he would have taken out most of his own allies. From what we know, Whitebeard wouldn't even think about using a weapon that could hurt the people he considers as his children. Not to mention that it would be useless against foes that matter like the admirals and the shichibukai.
Actually him using conqueror's haki would have been the plot hole... It's inconsistent with the character. i think it's more that it wouldn't have worked vs admirals/shichibukai since he didn't need to use it to take out small fry. conqueror's haki can be targeted, see what rayleigh did when he first met luffy and also see luffy vs fake luffy and rayleigh also telling luffy not to use it until he's learned how to master it or else he'll use it on allies or something I remember that when Rayleigh used it in the auction house some crewmen of Law were dizzy. If Rayleigh could choose the targets, those people would have either fainted or felt nothing. In all the examples you mention, only small fries were affected Looking up that scene i just noticed that doflamingo mentiones the smiles in a converstation, almost 200 chapters before its revealed on punk hazard. Dont know if this has been mentioned before here. http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2611-6/one-piece/chapter-504.html
Nice, thanks this manga is awesome.
|
On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage.
the straw hats specifically weren't target, i'm like 90% sure of this.
trafalgar and kidd were however, rayleigh then says that they're not small fries since they withstood it, even though one of traf's crew members did wave a bit
|
On September 08 2013 18:55 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage. that sounds reasonable. @Dekker I also find it a bit weird that pretimeskip all the Strawhats and friends (camie&Hacci) were unaffected by it already. But I guess it would be kinda dumb if Chopper/usopp/Nami suddenly fainted there xD. I guess it was explained that it only affects the weak minded and considering that our friends all went through some hard ships in the past it makes them strong in that regard.
wrong. obviously rayleigh targeted everyone in the room except the strawhats and their friends, there is no other explanation. kidd, mr. at-the-time-315-mil, was sweating due to rayleighs haki, while characters like nami and usopp felt nothing. kidd has later made it in the new world, proving that he has a strong will, and usopp and nami does not have kidd's will or strength, or they would be much, much, much stronger now after two years of training. the only reasonable conclusion, and the absolutely most obvious one, is that rayliegh is a very skilled haki user and TARGETED SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS in the room.
why is this even being discussed?
|
On September 08 2013 22:35 Afmug wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 18:55 AsnSensation wrote:On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage. that sounds reasonable. @Dekker I also find it a bit weird that pretimeskip all the Strawhats and friends (camie&Hacci) were unaffected by it already. But I guess it would be kinda dumb if Chopper/usopp/Nami suddenly fainted there xD. I guess it was explained that it only affects the weak minded and considering that our friends all went through some hard ships in the past it makes them strong in that regard. wrong. obviously rayleigh targeted everyone in the room except the strawhats and their friends, there is no other explanation. kidd, mr. at-the-time-315-mil, was sweating due to rayleighs haki, while characters like nami and usopp felt nothing. kidd has later made it in the new world, proving that he has a strong will, and usopp and nami does not have kidd's will or strength, or they would be much, much, much stronger now after two years of training. the only reasonable conclusion, and the absolutely most obvious one, is that rayliegh is a very skilled haki user and TARGETED SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS in the room. why is this even being discussed?
We don't know yet the current level of Ussop and Nami. I think they are strong enough not the faint.
|
On September 08 2013 22:35 Afmug wrote:
why is this even being discussed?
It is discussed to find out if Whitebeard not using the Conqueror's haki at Marineford is a plothole or not.
If you want to come across arrogant, try at the very least to follow the discussion.
|
Whitebeard didn't go out because his crew would be caught up in his attacks. He was in really bad health, had a heart attack, lost half his face and a shit ton of other injuries. I doubt his physical condition would have allowed for him to use the Conquerors Haki. Rayliegh can only use it 3 or 4 times a day and not nearly to the scale needed for it actually to be useful or worth the effort and stamina drain in MF.
|
On September 08 2013 22:35 Afmug wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 18:55 AsnSensation wrote:On September 08 2013 18:02 mavignon wrote:On September 08 2013 06:27 AsnSensation wrote:
it's 100% controllable otherwise luffy wouldn't have only knocked out the fake strawhats when he arrived on shabondy archipel. Conqueror's haki to me is like throwing a stone in a pond... the wave only goes as far as the stone has kinetic energy when it enters the water. Thats's why Luffy could target the fake strawhats, because they were the only people at close range. That's why Rayleigh's conqueror's haki touched everybody in auction house because he needed to create a shockwave that could reach the stage. that sounds reasonable. @Dekker I also find it a bit weird that pretimeskip all the Strawhats and friends (camie&Hacci) were unaffected by it already. But I guess it would be kinda dumb if Chopper/usopp/Nami suddenly fainted there xD. I guess it was explained that it only affects the weak minded and considering that our friends all went through some hard ships in the past it makes them strong in that regard. wrong. obviously rayleigh targeted everyone in the room except the strawhats and their friends, there is no other explanation. kidd, mr. at-the-time-315-mil, was sweating due to rayleighs haki, while characters like nami and usopp felt nothing. kidd has later made it in the new world, proving that he has a strong will, and usopp and nami does not have kidd's will or strength, or they would be much, much, much stronger now after two years of training. the only reasonable conclusion, and the absolutely most obvious one, is that rayliegh is a very skilled haki user and TARGETED SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS in the room. why is this even being discussed?
Anyway I have just reread that part and you can clearly see Luffy, Zoro and Sanjj sweating while we can't see the face of Nami or Usopp.
|
Perhaps Conquerors Haki is really something like a nova which comes out of yourself and in combination with Observation Haki you can target the people you sense?
|
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
Whitebeard wasn't really shown using much Haki at all in Marineford. Aokiji wasn't wounded when he was stabbed by Whitebeard. There were tons of attacks that Whitebeard wasn't able to dodge even though Marco explicitly states that it should be no problem for someone like him. For example when Squardo stabbed him, cannonballs, regular attacks, etc.
He was also coughing blood in the middle of an assault. I think it's safe to say that Whitebeard was extremely weak at Marineford compared to how strong he was when he met Shanks. Why? Well, whatever medical treatment he received on his ship apparently did real wonders for his strength. Who knows how long he went without it when they attacked Marineford.
His health problems could very well affect his focus which would mean he wasn't able to fully use his Haki. Whatever it is, Marco says that he was afraid of something like this happening when Whitebeard started coughing blood and getting stabbed. Then there's a flashback of Whitebeard refusing being tied to his medical engine thing during the war. Who knows what kind of illness he had and how it affected him.
Pretty sure it's not a plothole.
And I'm also really sure there's more to Conqueror's Haki than knocking people out in a certain radius without being able to control who's affected. Would be a tremendously useless ability otherwise.
|
i dont see how its even up for debate whether you can control haki or not. i swear to god im pretty sure ive even read/watched rayleight explicitly say that you could control your conquerors haki to a point where you can focus who to use it on. the only explanation for whitebeard not doing this is either his conquerors haki was like luffys pre timeskip (cant control, also very unlikely), or its just a plothole. i mean if the 2 guards are in the motion of bringing the swords down on ace's head, it shouldnt even matter if your haki is uncontrollable. sacrifice a couple small fries to save ace
http://www.mangahit.com/one-piece/597/15
here it was. rayleigh explicitly telling luffy not to use conquerors haki without being able to control it, because he will knock out innocent people too
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
