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On December 08 2012 14:25 iSometric wrote:
For Zoro, the 36 pound hou and the asura ARE not haki, and wouldn't have done anything even if he were to fight a logia. Haki!= a technique, it's just an innate ability from training or from the magic of timeskip that will allow fights to be fair against a logia/ enhance attacks (vs pacifista for example). No way rokushiki is haki either, because how does shigan count as haki?? I'd say that haki would simply make the shigan better (as you see the vice admiral's use it in the WB War vs Luffy).
But whatever, I find trying to argue over One Piece dumb, because in a few years Oda sensei will eventually explain it all, hopefully : P I heard he has the plot all planned out, so we are in good shape for what is in store for the readers.
Haki is a way to enhance and harden things, for instance the amazons use Haki on snakes to make arrows, so it makes perfect sense to use haki to turn your finger into a bullet
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So you think Jabura from W7 arc had haki? I highly doubt that unless that means Sanji also had haki (Sanji beat him and Sanji having haki is unlikely at that arc). If Rokushiki= haki, then soru+geppo = haki? If you are saying that only shigan indicates haki, I think it is unlikely that the crew had to face a whole team of Cp9 haki users and still win.
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Also, Blueno had shigan and I really doubt he had haki. He was the weakest out of the bunch and I'm sure Sanji could've beat him. As I said, the only one with haki possibly is probably Lucci since he was touted as some super strong guy on vice admiral level.
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On December 08 2012 14:33 iSometric wrote:
So you think Jabura from W7 arc had haki? I highly doubt that unless that means Sanji also had haki (Sanji beat him and Sanji having haki is unlikely at that arc). If Rokushiki= haki, then soru+geppo = haki? If you are saying that only shigan indicates haki, I think it is unlikely that the crew had to face a whole team of Cp9 haki users and still win.
Tekkai also screams of Haki
having Haki does not automatically make you a god of war, the little kid in skypeia had observation and the piss weak priest had obersavtion too just knowing Haki doesnt make you strong but not knowing Haki puts a ceiling on how strong you can be (unless you have a good fruit to break the ceiling)
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Armament haki definitely makes you a god of war vs someone without armament haki. Can you imagine someone like Sanji to beat Vergo despite Sanji having haki? (without haki sanji would get destroyed) I think that once you get to a certain "power level" you would probably be developing haki or at least acknowledged how to develop it (Look at kid, apoo etc, post timeskip. I am 100% sure they all have haki by then and that they did not have haki pre timeskip)
Observation haki is not as good in fights as armament haki in my opinion.. Enel had it, the best observation haki on the island, yet he still lost vs a non haki user in Luffy. You can't just crack an opponent who has use of haki if you have no use of haki. Imagine Luffy beating Sentomaru in Saboady Pretimeskip. There is no way he would win. Post timeskip, you could see Sento acknowledged Luffy with his use of haki.
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On December 08 2012 14:46 iSometric wrote:
Armament haki definitely makes you a god of war vs someone without armament haki. Can you imagine someone like Sanji to beat Vergo despite Sanji having haki? (without haki sanji would get destroyed) I think that once you get to a certain "power level" you would probably be developing haki or at least acknowledged how to develop it (Look at kid, apoo etc, post timeskip. I am 100% sure they all have haki by then and that they did not have haki pre timeskip)
Observation haki is not as good in fights as armament haki in my opinion.. Enel had it, the best observation haki on the island, yet he still lost vs a non haki user in Luffy. You can't just crack an opponent who has use of haki if you have no use of haki. Imagine Luffy beating Sentomaru in Saboady Pretimeskip. There is no way he would win. Post timeskip, you could see Sento acknowledged Luffy with his use of haki.
your comparing non-haki users ve SKILLLED haki users
lets apply numbers to this for arguments sake
if both people are 100 at fighting, but one has 50 haki then obviously the one with haki destroys the non-haki (like Vergo VS Sanji and Luffy VS Sentoumaru)
but if you take someone whos a 50 and give him 50 haki and put him against someone whos a 100 then its still an even fight
so if Blueno is an 80 and has 20 haki and Luffy is a 100 then even though Blueno has Haki and Luffy doesnt since Blueno isnt skilled enough with Haki it doesnt make much of a difference
i mean Luffy was able to beat snake twins and they both had Haki so Haki obviously isnt the only thing that matters in a fist fight
rereading his fight with the 2 snake sisters they do alot thats similar to some of the other people like one of them moving her hair exactly like the long haired guy of CP9 and one creating fire exactly like Sanjis diablo jambie
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Looks like you have e-haki in the fight of argumentation over the power of haki and I don't . You win. GG
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You're being stupid. It's not everything is haki or isn't. It's that there are thousands of different fighting styles honed from intense training in them. Just because you think they're haki doesn't mean they are. In fact, Oda has never stated that they were haki. There's literally nothing to support your points except you seem to think that everything not normally explainable is haki, which is stupid given it's a completely different world where you can have shit like samurais with fire slashes. So tell me, is the fire slash that Kinemon used also haki? Honestly, no where has it said that Haki can imbue people with fire. Explanations have even been given by Sanji on how to explain his Devil's Leg, and it's not Haki. In fact, Sanji says using it multiple times would break his legs because of the stress. Does that sound like Haki? Nope!
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On December 08 2012 15:27 ghrur wrote:
You're being stupid. It's not everything is haki or isn't. It's that there are thousands of different fighting styles honed from intense training in them. Just because you think they're haki doesn't mean they are. In fact, Oda has never stated that they were haki. There's literally nothing to support your points except you seem to think that everything not normally explainable is haki, which is stupid given it's a completely different world where you can have shit like samurais with fire slashes. So tell me, is the fire slash that Kinemon used also haki? Honestly, no where has it said that Haki can imbue people with fire. Explanations have even been given by Sanji on how to explain his Devil's Leg, and it's not Haki. In fact, Sanji says using it multiple times would break his legs because of the stress. Does that sound like Haki? Nope!
actually i believe Kinemon ate the Fox Fox fruit which is why he can transform people with leaves and uses fire but thats beside the point
Haki is like a super fuel for car that makes it run faster, you can use it on any kind of car you want it super charges all of them jsut the same so you could use it on a super special car (like the Rokoshiki techniques or Zoros sword techniques) to make them better or just use it on a normal car (which owuld jsut be super charging a normal punch)
if we assume that everything in OP is either runs on a DF or Haki then Sanji risking his leg does make sense, if Armament can be divided into 2 categories Offense and Defense and Sanji only learned a very advanse offense and no defense then hed be using a force that his body was ltierally unable to handle (like making a crappy car go 300 miles an hour its just gonna fall apart)
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On December 08 2012 15:27 ghrur wrote:
You're being stupid. It's not everything is haki or isn't. It's that there are thousands of different fighting styles honed from intense training in them. Just because you think they're haki doesn't mean they are. In fact, Oda has never stated that they were haki. There's literally nothing to support your points except you seem to think that everything not normally explainable is haki, which is stupid given it's a completely different world where you can have shit like samurais with fire slashes. So tell me, is the fire slash that Kinemon used also haki? Honestly, no where has it said that Haki can imbue people with fire. Explanations have even been given by Sanji on how to explain his Devil's Leg, and it's not Haki. In fact, Sanji says using it multiple times would break his legs because of the stress. Does that sound like Haki? Nope!
I didn't say they were haki T.T...
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You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder.
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Sorry, I assumed you were talking to me, heh. I agree with your view on haki, and I've been trying to explain to Forik since he has no evidence and is basically all assumptions (Just because tekkai looks like armament, e kami looks like observation haki, etc)..
Oda sensei laughing at us all.
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On December 08 2012 15:37 ghrur wrote:
You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder.
why not? why is it so far fetched? we already know that Haki makes you physical stronger and tougher we already know that Haki can make normal arrows pierce stone and make Snakes like bows
Haki enhances the physical performance of someone thats pretty mcuh all haki does (aside from letting you catch Logias) so anything that doesnt use magic (DF) can be ehanced by adding in Haki
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On December 08 2012 15:42 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 15:37 ghrur wrote:
You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder. why not? why is it so far fetched? we already know that Haki makes you physical stronger and tougher we already know that Haki can make normal arrows pierce stone and make Snakes like bows Haki enhances the physical performance of someone thats pretty mcuh all haki does (aside from letting you catch Logias) so anything that doesnt use magic (DF) can be ehanced by adding in Haki
"Why not?" Is that seriously your argument for assuming everything must be explained by either Haki or a Devil Fruit? Are you kidding me?
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On December 08 2012 15:56 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 15:42 Forikorder wrote:On December 08 2012 15:37 ghrur wrote:
You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder. why not? why is it so far fetched? we already know that Haki makes you physical stronger and tougher we already know that Haki can make normal arrows pierce stone and make Snakes like bows Haki enhances the physical performance of someone thats pretty mcuh all haki does (aside from letting you catch Logias) so anything that doesnt use magic (DF) can be ehanced by adding in Haki "Why not?" Is that seriously your argument for explaining everything with Haki or a Devil Fruit? Are you kidding me?
ive already laid out my arguments before, your arguments seem to be "if its not explicatly stated by the author then obviously its not true"
its never been stated that Rokoshiki is not related to haki you have no evidence that its not, the techniques they use is similar to haki attacks (big boss's cannon punch thing that hurts luffy dispite being rubber, turning there finger into a bullet extremely similar to Kuja haki reinforcements of arrow plus the long hair guys controlling his hair exactly like the snake chick controlled her hair)
its tiring coming up with all these similarities between Rokushiki and Haki and explaining how Haki can supercharge any fighting style (and make certain impossible things like Shigan and walking on air possible) and getting stonewalled by "as long as its not said in the manga that Rokoshiki is haki then its not true"
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On December 08 2012 16:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 15:56 Sentenal wrote:On December 08 2012 15:42 Forikorder wrote:On December 08 2012 15:37 ghrur wrote:
You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder. why not? why is it so far fetched? we already know that Haki makes you physical stronger and tougher we already know that Haki can make normal arrows pierce stone and make Snakes like bows Haki enhances the physical performance of someone thats pretty mcuh all haki does (aside from letting you catch Logias) so anything that doesnt use magic (DF) can be ehanced by adding in Haki "Why not?" Is that seriously your argument for explaining everything with Haki or a Devil Fruit? Are you kidding me? ive already laid out my arguments before, your arguments seem to be "if its not explicatly stated by the author then obviously its not true" its never been stated that Rokoshiki is not related to haki you have no evidence that its not, the techniques they use is similar to haki attacks (big boss's cannon punch thing that hurts luffy dispite being rubber, turning there finger into a bullet extremely similar to Kuja haki reinforcements of arrow plus the long hair guys controlling his hair exactly like the snake chick controlled her hair) its tiring coming up with all these similarities between Rokushiki and Haki and explaining how Haki can supercharge any fighting style (and make certain impossible things like Shigan and walking on air possible) and getting stonewalled by "as long as its not said in the manga that Rokoshiki is haki then its not true"
its never been stated that Rokoshiki is related to haki you have no evidence that it is
Look how easy it is to do this. We can do this all day until you actually provide proof. The burden of proof is on the guy coming up with the theory, which in this case is "Rokushiki is haki". And if you can't prove it with anything other than "Why not", its easy enough to just completely dismiss your idea as crazy fanon.
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On December 08 2012 16:06 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 16:01 Forikorder wrote:On December 08 2012 15:56 Sentenal wrote:On December 08 2012 15:42 Forikorder wrote:On December 08 2012 15:37 ghrur wrote:
You can't assume that everything either runs on DF or on Haki. That's not an assumption you have any evidence to support. There's also no evidence that there's offensive vs defensive armament Haki. But whatever, keep to your false dichotomies.
Better way of looking at this: go count your "ifs"
Not you iSometric. Forikorder. why not? why is it so far fetched? we already know that Haki makes you physical stronger and tougher we already know that Haki can make normal arrows pierce stone and make Snakes like bows Haki enhances the physical performance of someone thats pretty mcuh all haki does (aside from letting you catch Logias) so anything that doesnt use magic (DF) can be ehanced by adding in Haki "Why not?" Is that seriously your argument for explaining everything with Haki or a Devil Fruit? Are you kidding me? ive already laid out my arguments before, your arguments seem to be "if its not explicatly stated by the author then obviously its not true" its never been stated that Rokoshiki is not related to haki you have no evidence that its not, the techniques they use is similar to haki attacks (big boss's cannon punch thing that hurts luffy dispite being rubber, turning there finger into a bullet extremely similar to Kuja haki reinforcements of arrow plus the long hair guys controlling his hair exactly like the snake chick controlled her hair) its tiring coming up with all these similarities between Rokushiki and Haki and explaining how Haki can supercharge any fighting style (and make certain impossible things like Shigan and walking on air possible) and getting stonewalled by "as long as its not said in the manga that Rokoshiki is haki then its not true" its never been stated that Rokoshiki is related to haki you have no evidence that it is Look how easy it is to do this. We can do this all day until you actually provide proof. The burden of proof is on the guy coming up with the theory, which in this case is "Rokushiki is haki". And if you can't prove it with anything other than "Why not", its easy enough to just completely dismiss your idea as crazy fanon.
i do ahve eveidence
Shigan is exactly like what the Kuja pirates do to there arrows
Tekai is exactly like that too
Sanji disapears in the ilsand of freaks, he comes back having learnt Haki but theres no evidence he obtained a formal teacher at all so must have figured it out himself, what else did he figure out? the air walking thing STRONG evidence that air walking is haki
then theres the Lion dude, his controlling his hair is exactly like what the snake chick did so he HAS to know Haki or he wouldnt be able to do it
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"if we assume that everything in OP is either runs on a DF or Haki"
Log Pose? Haki. Den Den Mushi? Devil Fruit. Seastone? Haki. Calms Belts? Devil Fruit. Dials? Haki. Shinokuni? Devil Fruit.
Just give it a rest. One Piece is an amazing universe filled with all manner of crazy, unexplained, and supernatural. Boiling it all down into some singular, amorphous concept does the universe, and Haki itself, a great disservice. I'm sure Oda has more answers in store further down the line, so unless you're one of those folks who thinks the author is wrong about his own work, just wait and enjoy.
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Hey, I can shape my hair too! I must have Haki!
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It's okay. Oda is only 37 so he still has a good 30 years to finish OP before his senileness will make the manga dumb like some other manga's latter plots...
WE CAN EXPECT GOOD THINGS!
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EPT
