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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 07 2012 19:31 b3n3tt3 wrote: Rokushiki eh? We better forget about that. That DBZ-ish fight at water 7 is definitely bad for one piece It was the best arc of One Piece lol :/ | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:00 killa_robot wrote: It's also impossible to eat a fruit and gain magically powers, and to sense people using your willpower. Your argument doesn't make sense since this isn't a world like our own. Just cause you don't need special training doesn't mean EVERYTHING involves haki. There's no connection there whatsoever. you say that CP9s techs has nothing to do with Haki or DF wich means its mundane ability that anyone could emulate with enough muscle if its not mundane and its not a fruit then its Haki | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
I think it is a point of ambiguity because right now Vergo changes color of the weapon when attacking, while in the clash between WB and Shanks, there were no color changes. I'm pretty sure if there weren't haki in those weapons, the weapons would be shattering or they're not all that strong. The kuja arrows also should change colors but they never did. In fact nobody ever changed colors at all. This shows that armament Haki doesn't have to change colors but they can. If haki doesn't have to change colors, then there's no good way to differentiate in the future what anyone is using. Santoumaru may just be very very good at iron skin since she is affiliated with the marines after all. Or if she was using haki, she didn't even need to concentrate much of it to deflect Luffy at that point. Or maybe it's just something that the artist is using now to show haki usage that wasn't there before. Or maybe I'm just over thinking a manga. Also someone mentioned earlier that law's natural counter is Buggy. If Law can cut himself, law would have buggy's powers plus the ability to teleport his body parts around wouldn't it? I mean even buggy's power has a finite range attached to it so there's no difference in that aspect. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:09 ddrddrddrddr wrote: FFS, I can never open mangareader images. They just don't open for me no mater which computer I use... I think it is a point of ambiguity because right now Vergo changes color of the weapon when attacking, while in the clash between WB and Shanks, there were no color changes. I'm pretty sure if there weren't haki in those weapons, the weapons would be shattering or they're not all that strong. The kuja arrows also should change colors but they never did. In fact nobody ever changed colors at all. This shows that armament Haki doesn't have to change colors but they can. If haki doesn't have to change colors, then there's no good way to differentiate in the future what anyone is using. Santoumaru may just be very very good at iron skin since she is affiliated with the marines after all. Or if she was using haki, she didn't even need to concentrate much of it to deflect Luffy at that point. Or maybe it's just something that the artist is using now to show haki usage that wasn't there before. Or maybe I'm just over thinking a manga. Also someone mentioned earlier that law's natural counter is Buggy. If Law can cut himself, law would have buggy's powers plus the ability to teleport his body parts around wouldn't it? I mean even buggy's power has a finite range attached to it so there's no difference in that aspect. ya but hed have to cut himself first and its not certain he can move things around with such force as to actually do damage, plus the opponent can catch the part hes flying around and damage it while the danger of that happening to buggy is much less plus Law does have a finite distance he can control the "cut" piece | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:12 Forikorder wrote: ya but hed have to cut himself first and its not certain he can move things around with such force as to actually do damage, plus the opponent can catch the part hes flying around and damage it while the danger of that happening to buggy is much less plus Law does have a finite distance he can control the "cut" piece Buggy explained his power in impel down, his pieces also have a finite range that they can be apart from. Plus his feet always anchors his body. It's harder with law since he has to manually cut himself rather than buggy who only splits, but instead of sneaking a knife around with his floating hands, maybe law can teleport a whole sword arm around. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
thriller bark was the best imo But thats a matter of opinion  | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:07 Forikorder wrote: you say that CP9s techs has nothing to do with Haki or DF wich means its mundane ability that anyone could emulate with enough muscle if its not mundane and its not a fruit then its Haki It would be training, not muscle mass that would determine if anyone could do it. Glad to see you agree with me that it's not haki. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 08 2012 01:07 Forikorder wrote: you say that CP9s techs has nothing to do with Haki or DF wich means its mundane ability that anyone could emulate with enough muscle if its not mundane and its not a fruit then its Haki Uhh, what? Haki literally means "Ambition". People using "Haki" to attack and such are literally manifesting their ambition or will power to do whatever. Rokushiki is a martial art (and is clearly stated to be such). And in anime/mnaga, Martial Arts are very commonly tied to the idea of "Chi". | ||
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ore0z
Romania161 Posts
In that sense, all hand to hand combat is Haki in some way. All sword fighting is Haki in some way. It's just a different school of fighting. There's no connection to imply it is Haki. You're arguing that because there's nothing to prove that its not Haki, then it could be Haki. | ||
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Chro
United States240 Posts
Everyone on the one piece crew uses physical abilities without haki currently. Zoro cuts through everything with skill and technique, not sheer will, at least for now. Same with sanji, all of his stuff is skill and technique. I'm sure in the future things will change but haki is just to enhance offense/defense at the physical level. It doesn't magically give you any sort of skills, you have to master your physical ability first and then augment it later on. | ||
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Krytha
Canada140 Posts
On December 08 2012 00:41 Forikorder wrote: she only knew observation haki not armament haki I said if. Rokushiki is training, technique and strength. Haki is willpower/drive/vigor (according to WB when Shanks shows his haki). In terms of the black colouring vs not black colouring, I feel like that is more related to the author not having clearly established how to show that next level of strength when Luffy didn't have it, and now that he does, the black colouring will clearly show it. For Sanji and Zoro, it still isn't clear that either of them can use coa, but both can obviously use coo. However, Iva obviously can use coa (hellwink vs. akainu)... but nothing definitively shows Mihawk using coa, although its probably safe to say he can given his standing in the world. So, its not proven, but there's a good chance Sanji and Zoro have some coa knowledge/use. | ||
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
But from a logical standpoint hit feet are basically functioning like the center of "room" which create the end points/boundaries of how far he can theoretically split. This is quite similar to Law's. What I don't really know is whether Law's training allowed him to expand his room boundary further than it was originally. If it were such that training improves "room" range, I would argue that training would also allow Buggy to improve "room" range. Also, his limiting factor is his feet but as you can see how his body moves, it doesn't necessarily have to be tied down to a ghost silhouette of a human body moving. As such. You could argue that he could 1.5x his room range in battle by distance each of his feet to with one of them being at the near edge of the other. So Law would have difficulty to cut him. then you just need Buggy to train (which he will never do) to improve battle prowess and capability. I am only speaking of DF power against DF power here so it shouldn't really be tied down to the current character that owns it. And its just a theory which I find quite amusing. | ||
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
Although they perform similarly, that does not make them the same. Kind of like apples and oranges. They are both fruits, they give vitamins when you eat them but they are still different, an apple and an orange. But again, the master of the one piece universe is still Oda, so if he says it is the same, then we can rest the case. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 12:19 17Sphynx17 wrote: I really don't think Rokushiki is Haki masked as something else. I wouldn't argue about art style but basically, why does no marine who use Haki acknowledge it? No one at the vice admiral level or higher use it as they have Haki. These guys come from different backgrounds but you've never seen them use any of the CP9 techniques which are still directly under government training. Although they perform similarly, that does not make them the same. Kind of like apples and oranges. They are both fruits, they give vitamins when you eat them but they are still different, an apple and an orange. But again, the master of the one piece universe is still Oda, so if he says it is the same, then we can rest the case. Vergo is uber Haki man and used Rokushiki techniques im not saying you can use Rokoshiki techniques with absolutely no training, but part of the training to learn Rokoshiki techniques teachs you haki remember how Coby learnt CoO after the war? had no idea what it was or how he learned it it jsut came to him after the war, same with CoA if you fight enough and train enough eventually you just start unconciously using armament to become faster and stronger like i personally think that all of the superhuman feats (Zoro cutting steel, Sanjis fire kicks, Luffy punching through concrete like its nothing) is Haki but in order to catch a logia you need more control of Haki then just unconciously using it provides | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
On December 08 2012 14:02 Forikorder wrote: Vergo is uber Haki man and used Rokushiki techniques im not saying you can use Rokoshiki techniques with absolutely no training, but part of the training to learn Rokoshiki techniques teachs you haki remember how Coby learnt CoO after the war? had no idea what it was or how he learned it it jsut came to him after the war, same with CoA if you fight enough and train enough eventually you just start unconciously using armament to become faster and stronger like i personally think that all of the superhuman feats (Zoro cutting steel, Sanjis fire kicks, Luffy punching through concrete like its nothing) is Haki but in order to catch a logia you need more control of Haki then just unconciously using it provides I agree with alot of what you say but I agree with some other poster who stated that arguing with you is impossible. I'm pretty sure haki will allow physical contact with a logia, which is proof. No way that zoro had haki back in alabasta... If Tashigi fought Akainu, I am sure that no matter how weak her haki is, the tangible contact will be there, but let us say Sanji and his pre timeskip diable jamble wouldn't even do tangible damage versus any logia. And I do not think Rokushiki = haki, because despite vice admirals using it during the war, I doubt wolf guy and kaku had haki, but maybe Lucci had haki since he was reputed of such a high level of power (I thought he might have been vice admiral level, or a little lower, during the w7 arc). | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 14:11 iSometric wrote: I agree with alot of what you say but I agree with some other poster who stated that arguing with you is impossible. I'm pretty sure haki will allow physical contact with a logia, which is proof. No way that zoro had haki back in alabasta... If Tashigi fought Akainu, I am sure that no matter how weak her haki is, the tangible contact will be there, but let us say Sanji and his pre timeskip diable jamble wouldn't even do tangible damage versus any logia. And I do not think Rokushiki = haki, because despite vice admirals using it during the war, I doubt wolf guy and kaku had haki, but maybe Lucci had haki since he was reputed of such a high level of power (I thought he might have been vice admiral level, or a little lower, during the w7 arc). the only logias Zoro fought were enel and Kizaru, VS enel he got KOd like immediately and Kizaru he was all crippled pretty much same deal with Luffy pre-time skip the only Logia he fought was Enel and Aokiji, Aokiji happened off panel and VS enel he was rubber im prepared to eat my words..... but did the strawhats actually fight any logias pre-timeskip and it be obvious that there attacks were passing through and not just the Logia dodging? | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 14:21 iSometric wrote: Luffy vs Smoker in any fight pre timeskip showed that he can't punch Smoker with and without gear 2nd, and I am pretty sure Luffy vs Crocodile didn't do shit the first time when he got owned in the desert without using the mizu-luffy or the blood on his knuckles. And I am sure it is common sense that Luffy would have been owned if not for his lucky immunity and perfect counter to Enel because there is no way anyone in the crew had haki to fight Enel. The only guy to damaged Enel was Wiper with the Kairoseki and the impact dial. forgot about Croc guess the super strength is just standard shonen super strength | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
But whatever, I find trying to argue over One Piece dumb, because in a few years Oda sensei will eventually explain it all, hopefully : P I heard he has the plot all planned out, so we are in good shape for what is in store for the readers. | ||
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