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Shiki has haki it would be silly to think otherwise. Not only have we seen weaker characters use Haki but you simply can't get into the top-tier of the OP world without it.
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On December 04 2012 10:08 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:54 17Sphynx17 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 09:42 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:02 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 08:16 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 07:08 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 06:52 killa_robot wrote:On December 02 2012 23:14 b3n3tt3 wrote:shiki just stood there and tanked luffy's big attack. That's definitely not admiral level LOL + Show Spoiler +Some parts of One piece Z is canon, some aren't. For example + Show Spoiler +Aokiji's leg is made up of ice in this movie. Yeah. From what I've heard Oda is working on the designs of the characters, but not the story. So the appearance of the characters are canon, but their actions aren't (as weird as that sounds). On December 03 2012 01:01 mokumoku wrote:On December 02 2012 23:23 KalWarkov wrote:
shiki is admiral level and above if you only take what u know from him in the manga.
Whatever happens in the movies has absolutly nothing to do with the real story -,- This^ Shiki was Rogers rival. He also went against Garp and Sengoku. Luffy wouldn't have stood a chance against Shiki. That was like what, 20 years ago? It was also back when Shiki didn't have swords for legs. You can't honestly believe he was as strong when he fought luffy as he was when he fought Garp and Sengoku. That would be completely ignoring the disabilities he received AND the fact that he got older and weaker. Garp may still be strong right now, but I'm positive he was much stronger back in the day when he was out fighting Roger. just like whitebeard got weaker as he got older? haki ignores age and having swords for legs isnt that much of a disability as long as you can keep your balance if whitebeard can be ancient and still that badass, and if Rayleigh can still take on an admiral no prob then Shiki is still admiral level I don't recall Shiki ever displaying haki, so not sure why you feel that applies to him. Whitebeard was a damn monster, and was seen as such, while Shiki was powerful before mainly because he amassed a huge army. Rayleigh was first mate of Roger (who was tied with Whitebeard for the most powerful man) and he's mastered Haki. Neither of your examples have any real relation to Shiki, other than the era they were in. Not to mention Shiki was incredibly arrogant vs Luffy, so he wasn't fighting as smart as he could have. Luffy also had the help of Billy AND the thunderstorm, so it's not like it was just Luffy beating Shiki 1v1. you cant get to admiral level and not know how to use Haki its just not possible, even without formal haki training youd still figure out how to use it on your own Rayleigh, Whitebeard and Shiki are all from the same era, the 2 former managed to continue being complete monsters so saying Shiki got old is no good excuse, Shiki might have had a big army but it was already shown he was a complete badass when it took Garp AND sengoku to manage to subdue him Shiki never used haki. You can't just say "well he fought X so he HAS to know haki". Haki doesn't work that way. It's entirely possible he went his whole life using only his devil fruit, and ignoring haki. Okay, Shiki got old AND was locked in prison, hows that? You're not even making a point here, you're just saying he needs to be powerful by association, which isn't true at all. you cant ignore Haki... its just something that the strong can use regardless of training or not its impossible for just the human body to witshtand the sort of damage that happens at admiral level even if its unconsiously Shiki used Haki why would they even consider Shiki strong if he couldnt use haki? any logia user could have wiped the floor with him since hed be unable to even hit him and why wouldnt he know how to use Haki? did he just never know about Haki ever? its completely ridiculous to assume he had no idea how to use Haki Whitebeard was ages old and spent most of his time hooked up to machines pretty sure he wasnt in better health then Shiki yet Whitebeard was still the strongest in the world I don't recall Shiki being shown to even use Haki in the movie. Can you site which part at least to have proof that he has Haki? Also, you are saying if he went against admiral level logia users, we would need haki. But he went against garp and sengoku who are not logia DF users. So what is the relevance? Whitebeard also isn't logia type. If you want to cite his first commander (phoenix guy) maybe at the time Shiki wasn;'t imprisoned, that guy wasn't even part of the crew so it doesn't matter and Shiki didn't have to fight him. Yes, it would be impossible to fight a logia user without knowing Haki, but when has shiki ever been shown to use Haki or go against a logia type. We also don't have a direct timeline to cite whether Akainu, Kizaru and the ice guy were even admirals already back then or even if they had their logia powers back when Shiki supposedly attacked the base. So as long as we don't have actual references to pull out "facts" or canon, then Shiki does not have Haki, period. you ahve to have Haki to be taht strong unless he never fought anyone who had haki if he didnt have haki then him fighting Garp would be like Nami trying to punch out Luffy you NEED Haki of at least some level or your attacks are like wet noodles unless im wrong his fruit only allows him to fly and make other stuff fly its pretty mcuh impossible to use that offensively (unless you drop stuff onpeople) so he would need to use haki to reinforce his attacks or else the most basic of armament haki would render his punchs innefective
he probably "did", considering concept of haki was fleshed out after the movie. if it even comes up itll probably be retconned
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so im confused did Vergo have the strongest arnament haki or just a very strong user of it
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On December 04 2012 10:39 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 10:37 benston wrote:
one thing that has been on my mind for a while is where are the old admirals im sure these 3 havent been the same 3 for 20 years probably retired and sipping tea with sengoku one of them elder peeps might have been an admiral other admirals might have died in line of duty
What I don't understand is why all three admirals look like carbon copies of each other. Also the vice admirals look this way as well by being burly, wearing white coats, using haki and having average height. Like if smoker became an admiral his height would be so out of place that it would ruin the pattern. He'd probably need to be put on a stretching machine until he's a good 7 feet tall.
edit: here's a pic. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/onepiece/images/8/80/Vice_Admirals.jpg)
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On December 04 2012 10:56 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 10:39 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 10:37 benston wrote:
one thing that has been on my mind for a while is where are the old admirals im sure these 3 havent been the same 3 for 20 years probably retired and sipping tea with sengoku one of them elder peeps might have been an admiral other admirals might have died in line of duty What I don't understand is why all three admirals look like carbon copies of each other. Also the vice admirals look this way as well by being burly, wearing white coats, using haki and having average height. Like if smoker became an admiral his height would be so out of place that it would ruin the pattern. He'd probably need to be put on a stretching machine until he's a good 7 feet tall. edit: here's a pic.
how do the admirals all look alike... i dont think anoyne would ever confuse them
i think your just being too general who cares if there all the same height
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On December 04 2012 10:52 benston wrote:
so im confused did Vergo have the strongest arnament haki or just a very strong user of it
Vergo is a strong user
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On December 04 2012 09:42 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:02 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 08:16 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 07:08 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 06:52 killa_robot wrote:On December 02 2012 23:14 b3n3tt3 wrote:shiki just stood there and tanked luffy's big attack. That's definitely not admiral level LOL + Show Spoiler +Some parts of One piece Z is canon, some aren't. For example + Show Spoiler +Aokiji's leg is made up of ice in this movie. Yeah. From what I've heard Oda is working on the designs of the characters, but not the story. So the appearance of the characters are canon, but their actions aren't (as weird as that sounds). On December 03 2012 01:01 mokumoku wrote:On December 02 2012 23:23 KalWarkov wrote:
shiki is admiral level and above if you only take what u know from him in the manga.
Whatever happens in the movies has absolutly nothing to do with the real story -,- This^ Shiki was Rogers rival. He also went against Garp and Sengoku. Luffy wouldn't have stood a chance against Shiki. That was like what, 20 years ago? It was also back when Shiki didn't have swords for legs. You can't honestly believe he was as strong when he fought luffy as he was when he fought Garp and Sengoku. That would be completely ignoring the disabilities he received AND the fact that he got older and weaker. Garp may still be strong right now, but I'm positive he was much stronger back in the day when he was out fighting Roger. just like whitebeard got weaker as he got older? haki ignores age and having swords for legs isnt that much of a disability as long as you can keep your balance if whitebeard can be ancient and still that badass, and if Rayleigh can still take on an admiral no prob then Shiki is still admiral level I don't recall Shiki ever displaying haki, so not sure why you feel that applies to him. Whitebeard was a damn monster, and was seen as such, while Shiki was powerful before mainly because he amassed a huge army. Rayleigh was first mate of Roger (who was tied with Whitebeard for the most powerful man) and he's mastered Haki. Neither of your examples have any real relation to Shiki, other than the era they were in. Not to mention Shiki was incredibly arrogant vs Luffy, so he wasn't fighting as smart as he could have. Luffy also had the help of Billy AND the thunderstorm, so it's not like it was just Luffy beating Shiki 1v1. you cant get to admiral level and not know how to use Haki its just not possible, even without formal haki training youd still figure out how to use it on your own Rayleigh, Whitebeard and Shiki are all from the same era, the 2 former managed to continue being complete monsters so saying Shiki got old is no good excuse, Shiki might have had a big army but it was already shown he was a complete badass when it took Garp AND sengoku to manage to subdue him Shiki never used haki. You can't just say "well he fought X so he HAS to know haki". Haki doesn't work that way. It's entirely possible he went his whole life using only his devil fruit, and ignoring haki. Okay, Shiki got old AND was locked in prison, hows that? You're not even making a point here, you're just saying he needs to be powerful by association, which isn't true at all. you cant ignore Haki... its just something that the strong can use regardless of training or not its impossible for just the human body to witshtand the sort of damage that happens at admiral level even if its unconsiously Shiki used Haki why would they even consider Shiki strong if he couldnt use haki? any logia user could have wiped the floor with him since hed be unable to even hit him and why wouldnt he know how to use Haki? did he just never know about Haki ever? its completely ridiculous to assume he had no idea how to use Haki Whitebeard was ages old and spent most of his time hooked up to machines pretty sure he wasnt in better health then Shiki yet Whitebeard was still the strongest in the world
Because you don't need to be strong to use Haki, nor do you need Haki to be strong.
I never ignored Haki, I rejected your claim that Shiki had haki on the sole basis that because he's strong he has to have it. That's not proof nor is it even a real reason.
They'd consider him strong because he's strong? We considered plenty of people strong before knowing haki even existed, it's not like it's a requirement. Not to mention we've seen Luffy beat 2 logia users, pre-haki. We already know you don't NEED haki to beat a logia user, as most have some sort of natural counter, it just makes it considerably easier.
Again, saying Whitebeard is strong has NOTHING TO DO with Shiki being strong or not. Nor does it in any way show that Shiki could use haki.
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On December 04 2012 11:39 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:42 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 09:02 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 08:16 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 07:08 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 06:52 killa_robot wrote:On December 02 2012 23:14 b3n3tt3 wrote:shiki just stood there and tanked luffy's big attack. That's definitely not admiral level LOL + Show Spoiler +Some parts of One piece Z is canon, some aren't. For example + Show Spoiler +Aokiji's leg is made up of ice in this movie. Yeah. From what I've heard Oda is working on the designs of the characters, but not the story. So the appearance of the characters are canon, but their actions aren't (as weird as that sounds). On December 03 2012 01:01 mokumoku wrote:On December 02 2012 23:23 KalWarkov wrote:
shiki is admiral level and above if you only take what u know from him in the manga.
Whatever happens in the movies has absolutly nothing to do with the real story -,- This^ Shiki was Rogers rival. He also went against Garp and Sengoku. Luffy wouldn't have stood a chance against Shiki. That was like what, 20 years ago? It was also back when Shiki didn't have swords for legs. You can't honestly believe he was as strong when he fought luffy as he was when he fought Garp and Sengoku. That would be completely ignoring the disabilities he received AND the fact that he got older and weaker. Garp may still be strong right now, but I'm positive he was much stronger back in the day when he was out fighting Roger. just like whitebeard got weaker as he got older? haki ignores age and having swords for legs isnt that much of a disability as long as you can keep your balance if whitebeard can be ancient and still that badass, and if Rayleigh can still take on an admiral no prob then Shiki is still admiral level I don't recall Shiki ever displaying haki, so not sure why you feel that applies to him. Whitebeard was a damn monster, and was seen as such, while Shiki was powerful before mainly because he amassed a huge army. Rayleigh was first mate of Roger (who was tied with Whitebeard for the most powerful man) and he's mastered Haki. Neither of your examples have any real relation to Shiki, other than the era they were in. Not to mention Shiki was incredibly arrogant vs Luffy, so he wasn't fighting as smart as he could have. Luffy also had the help of Billy AND the thunderstorm, so it's not like it was just Luffy beating Shiki 1v1. you cant get to admiral level and not know how to use Haki its just not possible, even without formal haki training youd still figure out how to use it on your own Rayleigh, Whitebeard and Shiki are all from the same era, the 2 former managed to continue being complete monsters so saying Shiki got old is no good excuse, Shiki might have had a big army but it was already shown he was a complete badass when it took Garp AND sengoku to manage to subdue him Shiki never used haki. You can't just say "well he fought X so he HAS to know haki". Haki doesn't work that way. It's entirely possible he went his whole life using only his devil fruit, and ignoring haki. Okay, Shiki got old AND was locked in prison, hows that? You're not even making a point here, you're just saying he needs to be powerful by association, which isn't true at all. you cant ignore Haki... its just something that the strong can use regardless of training or not its impossible for just the human body to witshtand the sort of damage that happens at admiral level even if its unconsiously Shiki used Haki why would they even consider Shiki strong if he couldnt use haki? any logia user could have wiped the floor with him since hed be unable to even hit him and why wouldnt he know how to use Haki? did he just never know about Haki ever? its completely ridiculous to assume he had no idea how to use Haki Whitebeard was ages old and spent most of his time hooked up to machines pretty sure he wasnt in better health then Shiki yet Whitebeard was still the strongest in the world Because you don't need to be strong to use Haki, nor do you need Haki to be strong. I never ignored Haki, I rejected your claim that Shiki had haki on the sole basis that because he's strong he has to have it. That's not proof nor is it even a real reason. They'd consider him strong because he's strong? We considered plenty of people strong before knowing haki even existed, it's not like it's a requirement. Not to mention we've seen Luffy beat 2 logia users, pre-haki. We already know you don't NEED haki to beat a logia user, as most have some sort of natural counter, it just makes it considerably easier. Again, saying Whitebeard is strong has NOTHING TO DO with Shiki being strong or not. Nor does it in any way show that Shiki could use haki.
he "beat" enel because hes rubber and Enel is lightning and he beat Croc cause Croc is the weakest of the strongest characters of the manga and Luffy still had to die 3 times to pull it off and needed Robin to save his ass twice
and all taht doesnt matter becasue Enel and Croc werent at admiral level and no not every Logia has a weakness i cant even fathom what magma would be weak against or something like smoke
in order to be admiral level you have to know Haki or the opponent jsut defends with his Haki and you cant hurt him, besides in the movie doesnt he fire off those leg blade things the CP9 uses? thats Haki
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On December 04 2012 11:58 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:39 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 09:42 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 09:02 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 08:49 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 08:16 killa_robot wrote:On December 04 2012 07:08 Forikorder wrote:On December 04 2012 06:52 killa_robot wrote:On December 02 2012 23:14 b3n3tt3 wrote:shiki just stood there and tanked luffy's big attack. That's definitely not admiral level LOL + Show Spoiler +Some parts of One piece Z is canon, some aren't. For example + Show Spoiler +Aokiji's leg is made up of ice in this movie. Yeah. From what I've heard Oda is working on the designs of the characters, but not the story. So the appearance of the characters are canon, but their actions aren't (as weird as that sounds). On December 03 2012 01:01 mokumoku wrote:On December 02 2012 23:23 KalWarkov wrote:
shiki is admiral level and above if you only take what u know from him in the manga.
Whatever happens in the movies has absolutly nothing to do with the real story -,- This^ Shiki was Rogers rival. He also went against Garp and Sengoku. Luffy wouldn't have stood a chance against Shiki. That was like what, 20 years ago? It was also back when Shiki didn't have swords for legs. You can't honestly believe he was as strong when he fought luffy as he was when he fought Garp and Sengoku. That would be completely ignoring the disabilities he received AND the fact that he got older and weaker. Garp may still be strong right now, but I'm positive he was much stronger back in the day when he was out fighting Roger. just like whitebeard got weaker as he got older? haki ignores age and having swords for legs isnt that much of a disability as long as you can keep your balance if whitebeard can be ancient and still that badass, and if Rayleigh can still take on an admiral no prob then Shiki is still admiral level I don't recall Shiki ever displaying haki, so not sure why you feel that applies to him. Whitebeard was a damn monster, and was seen as such, while Shiki was powerful before mainly because he amassed a huge army. Rayleigh was first mate of Roger (who was tied with Whitebeard for the most powerful man) and he's mastered Haki. Neither of your examples have any real relation to Shiki, other than the era they were in. Not to mention Shiki was incredibly arrogant vs Luffy, so he wasn't fighting as smart as he could have. Luffy also had the help of Billy AND the thunderstorm, so it's not like it was just Luffy beating Shiki 1v1. you cant get to admiral level and not know how to use Haki its just not possible, even without formal haki training youd still figure out how to use it on your own Rayleigh, Whitebeard and Shiki are all from the same era, the 2 former managed to continue being complete monsters so saying Shiki got old is no good excuse, Shiki might have had a big army but it was already shown he was a complete badass when it took Garp AND sengoku to manage to subdue him Shiki never used haki. You can't just say "well he fought X so he HAS to know haki". Haki doesn't work that way. It's entirely possible he went his whole life using only his devil fruit, and ignoring haki. Okay, Shiki got old AND was locked in prison, hows that? You're not even making a point here, you're just saying he needs to be powerful by association, which isn't true at all. you cant ignore Haki... its just something that the strong can use regardless of training or not its impossible for just the human body to witshtand the sort of damage that happens at admiral level even if its unconsiously Shiki used Haki why would they even consider Shiki strong if he couldnt use haki? any logia user could have wiped the floor with him since hed be unable to even hit him and why wouldnt he know how to use Haki? did he just never know about Haki ever? its completely ridiculous to assume he had no idea how to use Haki Whitebeard was ages old and spent most of his time hooked up to machines pretty sure he wasnt in better health then Shiki yet Whitebeard was still the strongest in the world Because you don't need to be strong to use Haki, nor do you need Haki to be strong. I never ignored Haki, I rejected your claim that Shiki had haki on the sole basis that because he's strong he has to have it. That's not proof nor is it even a real reason. They'd consider him strong because he's strong? We considered plenty of people strong before knowing haki even existed, it's not like it's a requirement. Not to mention we've seen Luffy beat 2 logia users, pre-haki. We already know you don't NEED haki to beat a logia user, as most have some sort of natural counter, it just makes it considerably easier. Again, saying Whitebeard is strong has NOTHING TO DO with Shiki being strong or not. Nor does it in any way show that Shiki could use haki. he "beat" enel because hes rubber and Enel is lightning and he beat Croc cause Croc is the weakest of the strongest characters of the manga and Luffy still had to die 3 times to pull it off and needed Robin to save his ass twice and all taht doesnt matter becasue Enel and Croc werent at admiral level and no not every Logia has a weakness i cant even fathom what magma would be weak against or something like smoke in order to be admiral level you have to know Haki or the opponent jsut defends with his Haki and you cant hurt him, besides in the movie doesnt he fire off those leg blade things the CP9 uses? thats Haki
He still beat two logias, which shows you don't need haki to do it. Conditions around his victory don't really matter.
What does admiral level have to do with anything? You said ANY logia user, not "Admiral Logia users can't be beaten without Haki".
I dunno what Magma is weak against. A quick look-up shows it needs moisture otherwise it solidifies, so a devil fruit that dries things might be good against it (it's possible Crocodile could counter him too I suppose). Also possible something like an Earth devil fruit could counter control the magma. Point is it can and probably does have a natural counter.
No, in order to be an Admiral you need to know haki. You can be as strong as one without Haki, it's just really hard. CP9 movies aren't haki, they're Rokushiki moves, which is a different thing.
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What does admiral level have to do with anything? You said ANY logia user, not "Admiral Logia users can't be beaten without Haki".
an admiral PERIOD cannot be beaten without Logia
imagine putting a normal person agaisnt Vergo he could bowl them over and not even feel it same with the admirals without Haki and without a fruit that increases your damage ability (like Sengokus or a logia) you cant be considered a credible threat because they just guard against your piss weak attacks with Haki
with no offensive fruit, and no haki its impossible for Shiki to have dont anything notable
You can be as strong as one without Haki, it's just really hard.
if you ahve a good fruit like a logia then yes because your fruit can cover your inability to attack but with jsut the float float fruit he wouldnt be able to have put one scratch on Garp
CP9 movies aren't haki, they're Rokushiki moves, which is a different thing.
i fail to see the distinction besides since he has swords for legs its probably much more like Zoros cannon attacks then rokushiki move
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Ace and Luffy have been using Haki unconciously since they've been children. People without Haki just don't tend to make it to the New World.
If you really think Shiki could be considered a rival to Roger and go toe to toe with Garp and Sengoku without using Haki well...yeah, he knew Haki.
take Pekoms for example - he was a comedy relief guy pitied even by random citizens, but as soon as he was attacked by a Logia? BAM, OHKO. "Logias who think they're invincible don't last long in the New World"
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On December 04 2012 12:23 Forikorder wrote:What does admiral level have to do with anything? You said ANY logia user, not "Admiral Logia users can't be beaten without Haki". an admiral PERIOD cannot be beaten without Logia imagine putting a normal person agaisnt Vergo he could bowl them over and not even feel it same with the admirals without Haki and without a fruit that increases your damage ability (like Sengokus or a logia) you cant be considered a credible threat because they just guard against your piss weak attacks with Haki with no offensive fruit, and no haki its impossible for Shiki to have dont anything notable if you ahve a good fruit like a logia then yes because your fruit can cover your inability to attack but with jsut the float float fruit he wouldnt be able to have put one scratch on Garp Show nested quote +CP9 movies aren't haki, they're Rokushiki moves, which is a different thing. i fail to see the distinction besides since he has swords for legs its probably much more like Zoros cannon attacks then rokushiki move
Do you even know what you're arguing about? You started by saying you need haki to beat a logia, and that Shiki needed to have haki to be on par with everyone else. Now you've decided to say an admiral can't be beated without the person being a logia?
Holy fuck, are you actually reading what I'm saying? I never said a normal person could fight with the strongest people, I said you don't need haki to be strong. Your "point" has nothing at all to do with what I'm saying.
What the fuck are you even saying? Shiki practically decimated the strawhats crew with his ability alone. You vastly underestimate it's potential.
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On December 04 2012 12:32 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 12:23 Forikorder wrote:What does admiral level have to do with anything? You said ANY logia user, not "Admiral Logia users can't be beaten without Haki". an admiral PERIOD cannot be beaten without Logia imagine putting a normal person agaisnt Vergo he could bowl them over and not even feel it same with the admirals without Haki and without a fruit that increases your damage ability (like Sengokus or a logia) you cant be considered a credible threat because they just guard against your piss weak attacks with Haki with no offensive fruit, and no haki its impossible for Shiki to have dont anything notable You can be as strong as one without Haki, it's just really hard. if you ahve a good fruit like a logia then yes because your fruit can cover your inability to attack but with jsut the float float fruit he wouldnt be able to have put one scratch on Garp CP9 movies aren't haki, they're Rokushiki moves, which is a different thing. i fail to see the distinction besides since he has swords for legs its probably much more like Zoros cannon attacks then rokushiki move Do you even know what you're arguing about? You started by saying you need haki to beat a logia, and that Shiki needed to have haki to be on par with everyone else. Now you've decided to say an admiral can't be beated without the person being a logia? Holy fuck, are you actually reading what I'm saying? I never said a normal person could fight with the strongest people, I said you don't need haki to be strong. Your "point" has nothing at all to do with what I'm saying. What the fuck are you even saying? Shiki practically decimated the strawhats crew with his ability alone. You vastly underestimate it's potential.
ive said its impossible to beat a logia without haki (though you have made the point in extremely rare scenarios it is possible)
ive said that Shiki would need Haki to be at admiral level (since his fruit is worthless on the offense)
i never ever said that you have to have logia to beat an admiral, i did say you have to have Haki or a devil fruit with offensive capabilities like a logia to beat an admiral
someone without a fruit or haki is a normal person since Shikis fruit does not let him shoot lazer beams or heat beams or some other sort of beam hes as good as a normal person (assuming he ahs no haki)
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Oda wrote the story for Strong World. Luffy could beat, and has beaten Shiki, according to Oda. Similarly, he beat Enel, who had Haki and was stated that, if he had a bounty, it would be 500 million.
Its not farfetched to believe Luffy can beat Shiki.
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I don't how people could argue whats canon or not. Did the creator say it was canon? End of story. If not, and he only helped create it, it most likely will be canon and but not guaranteed to be mentioned in the original story.
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Enel's fruit was pretty OP as fuck, imagine that he could just summon himself into a cloud and virtually go anywhere via lightnings in the sky. But he's n00b and arrogant probably he's 500 million just because of the potential of his fruit
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It is technically cannon but it is not cannon in the same way as other material and is indistinguishable from filler. If there was a back story for a character in the series that explained an aspect of a character or object, but still never talked about (Zoro's eye scar for example) it would have more impact than Strong World. The extent of Strong World is there one was a pirate named Shiki, 'The End". One Piece talked about how Shiki escaped Impel Down and was a rival to Rogers but we didn't need to watch the movie to know that. Heck Shiki was defeated by Luffy in the movie but we don't even know if he was captured or not.
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On December 04 2012 17:17 b3n3tt3 wrote:
Enel's fruit was pretty OP as fuck, imagine that he could just summon himself into a cloud and virtually go anywhere via lightnings in the sky. But he's n00b and arrogant probably he's 500 million just because of the potential of his fruit
That's not just "probably." I believe Oda was asked in an interview what Enel's bounty would have been if he had one, and he said $500 mil.
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On December 04 2012 18:09 YejinYejin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 17:17 b3n3tt3 wrote:
Enel's fruit was pretty OP as fuck, imagine that he could just summon himself into a cloud and virtually go anywhere via lightnings in the sky. But he's n00b and arrogant probably he's 500 million just because of the potential of his fruit That's not just "probably." I believe Oda was asked in an interview what Enel's bounty would have been if he had one, and he said $500 mil.
because u should take everything Oda says for granted. guys...
Just read the manga. Everything that happens around it or is said about it by anyone is not important at all.
Even if Strong World is "canon" (which i highly doubt) - as long as it hasnt any effect on the manga, it doesnt matter at all.
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On December 04 2012 18:09 YejinYejin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 17:17 b3n3tt3 wrote:
Enel's fruit was pretty OP as fuck, imagine that he could just summon himself into a cloud and virtually go anywhere via lightnings in the sky. But he's n00b and arrogant probably he's 500 million just because of the potential of his fruit That's not just "probably." I believe Oda was asked in an interview what Enel's bounty would have been if he had one, and he said $500 mil.
yes but since Luffy had the gum-gum fruit was giving a giant gold ball to use and Enel had absolutely no reinforcement Haki it made a perfect storm of him being to take down Enel
plus bounty isnt only personal strength Enel being able to obliterate islands would skyrocket his bounty
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EPT
