|
This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here.
If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers.
If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. |
On December 05 2012 06:38 rei wrote:Enel is the one of the ancient weapons that can destroy the entire planet. Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 06:04 Forikorder wrote:
you keep saying he could jsut keep his distance and take them out with long range attack but then itd be piss weak since hed have to use so much voltage to make it extend that fer, if that father dude could survive taking the hit then if hes at a range where the enemy cant hit him then he cant even hurt him
he has to get close in order to use any of his really really strong voltage attacksbut then hes open to being attacked not if Enel uses the lightning naturally exist in thunder clouds, and all he had to do is guide that shit to the target like how Sasuke did to Itachi.
Enel is not one of the ancient weapons that can destroy the planet, mainly because there is no weapon that can destroy the planet but killing off an entire island would be
nor is Enels ship one of those things since he made it himself and all it does is make lightning clouds
and in the same way he cant use natural lightning only that wierd special cloud that his ship makes
and anyway that ship wouldnt work on the blue sea just like the waivers dont work so it would only be Enel and his natural ability from the fruit, no ship no magical lightning clouds
|
Enel, nor any fruit user, can be the most powerful in the One Piece Universe for a simple reason- every fruit has an antithesis fruit, sort of like Pokemon supereffectiveness (Fire/Ice, Lava/Snow, etc.) Luffy is already a pretty hard counter, but there's probably a guy out there with the Battery fruit that can just take down Enel no problem.
|
On December 05 2012 07:03 Phyrful wrote:
Enel, nor any fruit user, can be the most powerful in the One Piece Universe for a simple reason- every fruit has an antithesis fruit, sort of like Pokemon supereffectiveness (Fire/Ice, Lava/Snow, etc.) Luffy is already a pretty hard counter, but there's probably a guy out there with the Battery fruit that can just take down Enel no problem.
even if theres one person who hardcounters you if that person cant beat anyone else your still the strongest person
|
On December 05 2012 06:38 rei wrote:Enel is the one of the ancient weapons that can destroy the entire planet. Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 06:04 Forikorder wrote:
you keep saying he could jsut keep his distance and take them out with long range attack but then itd be piss weak since hed have to use so much voltage to make it extend that fer, if that father dude could survive taking the hit then if hes at a range where the enemy cant hit him then he cant even hurt him
he has to get close in order to use any of his really really strong voltage attacksbut then hes open to being attacked not if Enel uses the lightning naturally exist in thunder clouds, and all he had to do is guide that shit to the target like how Sasuke did to Itachi.
Okay, its official, this guy is trolling. Move along, people.
|
On December 05 2012 05:25 rei wrote:
yep oda is so wrong.
You mean it wasn't clear he was trolling here? =P
*goes back to waiting for next chapter*
|
Laughable how one tries to push his argument that Enel is the strongest without considering both canon and facts. Not only can he be beat by Luffy being a hardcounter, he can be beat by Kizaru. Heck, I would think to argue he could even be beat by Aokiji. Ice being made of water could just allow him to constantly just :channel" the electricity through without actually taking damage. But anyway, read on my brave Enel fan, read on...
Going back to one of the previous discussion. I still don't think Shiki has Haki. He is strong, period. Even without Haki, his DF is very powerful. How can crashing warships onto your enemy not be considered powerful? How about an island? Even if Garp and Sengoku used their powers, it would be difficult to decimate the stuff Shiki could throw. You can actually argue that what could have caused the battle to be prolonged and hard was the amount of stuff around the base when Shiki fought Garp and Sengoku. There was no mention of anyone else confronting him during his capture so leave that out.
After Shiki "ran out" of large "ammo to throw", then it would already be conceivable that he was taken down by the tired Haki users Garp and Sengoku. I mean no matter how strong your Haki is, it still isn't easy to break apart a freaking warship when its coming at you, although it can be done.
Shiki also went against Gold Roger and Whitebeard as the story suggest but has it ever been said that he has ever won against either of them? Just because there is rivalry doesn't mean you are actually on even footing. This does not discount how strong Shiki's DF power is but just makes mention of the fact that he never beat those guys. But he is still strong. Out in the sea, if he manages to flip over your ship, if you are a DF user, you are basically done for if you can't fly or keep away from water to fight him. So his power is still considerably strong. I think this must be taken into consideration as to why perhaps the others had trouble dealing with him as battles could happen out in the open sea and most the DF users would have a problem should he manage to manipulate their ships during the battle.
I think that is at least clear enough to warrant the fact how Shiki is strong even without Haki given what the story has shown and spoke of about him and who he went up against.
Unless there is canon/manga showing Shiki actually going toe to toe with a logia user and actually dealing physical damage, no proof of Haki is displayed yet.
|
Going back to one of the previous discussion. I still don't think Shiki has Haki. He is strong, period. Even without Haki, his DF is very powerful. How can crashing warships onto your enemy not be considered powerful? How about an island? Even if Garp and Sengoku used their powers, it would be difficult to decimate the stuff Shiki could throw. You can actually argue that what could have caused the battle to be prolonged and hard was the amount of stuff around the base when Shiki fought Garp and Sengoku. There was no mention of anyone else confronting him during his capture so leave that out.
Zoro cut a galleon in half like it was nothing, Hawkeye butchered Kriegs armada in minutes
what is a battleship to someone of garps quality? hed jsut punch right through them all day long
a haki enforced defense CANNOT be broken without haki or a fruit like a logia that lets you shoot lazer beams its just completely inconceivable that Shiki would be considered tough without Haki
besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there
it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out
also howd he manage to tear off his own legs without haki? hes a fruit user so hes already weak jsut from wearing the seastone cuffs whered he manage to generate the raw physical power needed to tear off his feet to free himself?
Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too
and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki
the more you fight the more likely it is to just figure out how to use Haki so how is it even conceivable that Shiki managed to claw his way to second in the world with no Haki at all?
im not saying hes Vergo with insane Haki but he has to at least knoew how to use it it jsut doesnt make sense otherwise
|
On December 05 2012 14:53 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Going back to one of the previous discussion. I still don't think Shiki has Haki. He is strong, period. Even without Haki, his DF is very powerful. How can crashing warships onto your enemy not be considered powerful? How about an island? Even if Garp and Sengoku used their powers, it would be difficult to decimate the stuff Shiki could throw. You can actually argue that what could have caused the battle to be prolonged and hard was the amount of stuff around the base when Shiki fought Garp and Sengoku. There was no mention of anyone else confronting him during his capture so leave that out. Zoro cut a galleon in half like it was nothing, Hawkeye butchered Kriegs armada in minutes what is a battleship to someone of garps quality? hed jsut punch right through them all day long a haki enforced defense CANNOT be broken without haki or a fruit like a logia that lets you shoot lazer beams its just completely inconceivable that Shiki would be considered tough without Haki besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out also howd he manage to tear off his own legs without haki? hes a fruit user so hes already weak jsut from wearing the seastone cuffs whered he manage to generate the raw physical power needed to tear off his feet to free himself? Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki the more you fight the more likely it is to just figure out how to use Haki so how is it even conceivable that Shiki managed to claw his way to second in the world with no Haki at all? im not saying hes Vergo with insane Haki but he has to at least knoew how to use it it jsut doesnt make sense otherwise
Dont worry, the people who say shiki doesnt have haki are probably the same people who say mihawk doesnt have haki... they are a hopeless case. Cant argue with someone who has such a illogical viewpoint on something.
|
Off topic here but
Would you guys say Mihawk> Doflamingo? Mihawk seems stronger than shanks now sicne shanks has one arm.
|
On December 05 2012 15:47 Spermwahale wrote:
Off topic here but
Would you guys say Mihawk> Doflamingo? Mihawk seems stronger than shanks now sicne shanks has one arm.
Each one of the Yonkou are probably on par with an Admiral, at the least.
As for the Shichibukai, I have no idea how Mihawk and Doflamingo would stack up. Never really seen them in action enough. We know Mihawk used to duel Shanks, Doflamingo beat Moria (who maybe was the weakest Shichibukai), both Mihawk and Doflamingo fought Crocodile to a draw in the War, and Mihawk had short fight with one of Whitebeard's subordinates without result. Not alot to draw on as to who is stronger.
|
i thought yonkous were a little stronger than admirals O.o.
|
I don't think oda meant for all of this random theorycrafting / who has haki- who doesn't have haki/ what does haki do/ powerlevels to be argued when people don't even know what's going on since the manga isn't even close to being done, or at least revealing most of the issues discussed. Funny how some people think they know it, when infact, probably the only one who knows anything at this point is oda.
|
On December 05 2012 16:00 Spermwahale wrote:
i thought yonkous were a little stronger than admirals O.o.
who knows.. at least whitebeard was a bit stronger then the admirals. But he was also the strongest person in the world.
Younkous being on par with admirals isnt to far fetched but we really cant know. For all we know it could differ greatly between different yonkous. Same as shichibukais are all different strengths.
|
On December 05 2012 15:07 sertas wrote:
Dont worry, the people who say shiki doesnt have haki are probably the same people who say mihawk doesnt have haki... they are a hopeless case. Cant argue with someone who has such a illogical viewpoint on something.
Shiki never displayed Haki, or stated that he had Haki. Mihawk has exhibited CoO several times, and presumably taught Zoro the basics of Haki (it's for this same reason that we can assume Ivankov has, at the very least, knowledge of Haki).
Mihawk is nearly a certainty, Shiki is not.
|
On December 05 2012 16:00 Spermwahale wrote:
i thought yonkous were a little stronger than admirals O.o.
We know Whitebeard was. We know that Shank's mere presence was enough to get the Marines to back down at the end of the War. But beyond that, we don't know anything about their actual strengths, so we can only make guesses. The Admirals themselves are top tier in terms of power in One Piece, anyway.
|
besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there
it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out
Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too
and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki
I don't know why you guys are saying certain techniques are Haki when no character has explained Haki in that way. This is not Naruto they are not using Chakra to create special moves. People can create special moves that go beyond normal human capabilities but it is not Haki. Rokushiki for example has quite a few techniques that seem similar to armament haki but that still is not like Tekai, Shigan and Rokuogan which either create powerful defense or offense using the body. Geppo which is the air step defies physics but is not Haki either where the user steps on air. Zoro's cannon similarly exaggerates the force of air by shooting it at his opponents with air slices and Sanji is able to use friction to heat up his legs or now with bad memories. Of course it doesn't need to make sense One Piece moves never needed to. In any case we have not gotten explanations of Haki that would cover energy blasts or heat generation.
The closest thing that isn't Haki but is believed to be Haki by some fans is Zoro's ability to cut steel, but in my opinion it is just an advanced sword technique as Zoro is not imbuing his swords with Haki at least noticeably. Haki so far just enhances ability than it's up to the user to put their own spin such as Luffy's Elephant Gun armament Haki.
Oh and One Piece is out
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/691
|
oh god
blue balls of the century
|
On December 05 2012 17:22 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there
it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out
Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too
and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki I don't know why you guys are saying certain techniques are Haki when no character has explained Haki in that way. This is not Naruto they are not using Chakra to create special moves. People can create special moves that go beyond normal human capabilities but it is not Haki. Rokushiki for example has quite a few techniques that seem similar to armament haki but that still is not like Tekai, Shigan and Rokuogan which either create powerful defense or offense using the body. Geppo which is the air step defies physics but is not Haki either where the user steps on air. Zoro's cannon similarly exaggerates the force of air by shooting it at his opponents with air slices and Sanji is able to use friction to heat up his legs or now with bad memories. Of course it doesn't need to make sense One Piece moves never needed to. In any case we have not gotten explanations of Haki that would cover energy blasts or heat generation. The closest thing that isn't Haki but is believed to be Haki by some fans is Zoro's ability to cut steel, but in my opinion it is just an advanced sword technique as Zoro is not imbuing his swords with Haki at least noticeably. Haki so far just enhances ability than it's up to the user to put their own spin such as Luffy's Elephant Gun armament Haki. Oh and One Piece is out http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/691
Zoro unlocked the first part of color of observation in the fight vs Daz Bones though, when he was lying beneath that pillar and rocks were falling down he just "knew" where he had to go.
That was one of the first foreshadowings of haki..
|
dammit oda this was too short... 
|
On December 05 2012 18:18 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 17:22 BlackMagister wrote:besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there
it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out
Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too
and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki I don't know why you guys are saying certain techniques are Haki when no character has explained Haki in that way. This is not Naruto they are not using Chakra to create special moves. People can create special moves that go beyond normal human capabilities but it is not Haki. Rokushiki for example has quite a few techniques that seem similar to armament haki but that still is not like Tekai, Shigan and Rokuogan which either create powerful defense or offense using the body. Geppo which is the air step defies physics but is not Haki either where the user steps on air. Zoro's cannon similarly exaggerates the force of air by shooting it at his opponents with air slices and Sanji is able to use friction to heat up his legs or now with bad memories. Of course it doesn't need to make sense One Piece moves never needed to. In any case we have not gotten explanations of Haki that would cover energy blasts or heat generation. The closest thing that isn't Haki but is believed to be Haki by some fans is Zoro's ability to cut steel, but in my opinion it is just an advanced sword technique as Zoro is not imbuing his swords with Haki at least noticeably. Haki so far just enhances ability than it's up to the user to put their own spin such as Luffy's Elephant Gun armament Haki. Oh and One Piece is out http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/691 Zoro unlocked the first part of color of observation in the fight vs Daz Bones though, when he was lying beneath that pillar and rocks were falling down he just "knew" where he had to go. That was one of the first foreshadowings of haki..
nigga please
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2039-44/one-piece/chapter-1.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
