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On December 05 2012 15:07 sertas wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2012 14:53 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Going back to one of the previous discussion. I still don't think Shiki has Haki. He is strong, period. Even without Haki, his DF is very powerful. How can crashing warships onto your enemy not be considered powerful? How about an island? Even if Garp and Sengoku used their powers, it would be difficult to decimate the stuff Shiki could throw. You can actually argue that what could have caused the battle to be prolonged and hard was the amount of stuff around the base when Shiki fought Garp and Sengoku. There was no mention of anyone else confronting him during his capture so leave that out. Zoro cut a galleon in half like it was nothing, Hawkeye butchered Kriegs armada in minutes what is a battleship to someone of garps quality? hed jsut punch right through them all day long a haki enforced defense CANNOT be broken without haki or a fruit like a logia that lets you shoot lazer beams its just completely inconceivable that Shiki would be considered tough without Haki besides he shoots the sword lazer thing that Zoro is always firing so thats Haki right there it seems like your only argument is that Shiki could flip someones ship and screw over the DF users, but without Haki hed have no way of dealing with Rayleigh who has no fruit and its not even confirmed if Roger ever ate a fruit so him flipping there ship wouldnt affect them theyd jsut swim over and punch his lights out also howd he manage to tear off his own legs without haki? hes a fruit user so hes already weak jsut from wearing the seastone cuffs whered he manage to generate the raw physical power needed to tear off his feet to free himself? Luffy at least displayed obvious use of Haki before being trained when he knocked out the amazons at the arena and probably other times, and Zoros cutting steel must be Haki and his pound cannons are probably Haki too and Sanjis Diablo Jambei is probably Haki the more you fight the more likely it is to just figure out how to use Haki so how is it even conceivable that Shiki managed to claw his way to second in the world with no Haki at all? im not saying hes Vergo with insane Haki but he has to at least knoew how to use it it jsut doesnt make sense otherwise Dont worry, the people who say shiki doesnt have haki are probably the same people who say mihawk doesnt have haki... they are a hopeless case. Cant argue with someone who has such a illogical viewpoint on something.
What you are saying is actually bordering on nonsense. We never stated Mihawk doesn't have Haki. In fact, manga shows that he does as he can go toe to toe with a logia type. It was the purpose of Zoro's training as well. He could not be strong enough in the new world to duke it out with the rest of them if he didn't have Haki. And after the time skip it was stated that surely Luffy, Zoro and Sanji have Haki post traning.
But Shiki still never implied or showed that he has it. Unless you have canon to show it. Or if Oda actually states it then there is no need for further discussion about it.
The point about being able to cut ships, I do not argue that non haki and haki users could do it, but as I stated, it still takes effort. Sure 1 ship, but how about 3 or 5 ships all at the same time? They said the battle was long when Shiki and Garp/Sengoku fought. The reason I could think of is because it is not easy to catch a flying man especially if he has a lot of stuff to throw at you. You can break them all you want, but that doesn't mean you have beaten him.
Again with the Shiki versus a Haki user argument. That has no bearing here because did they fight and who won? Shiki never beat Gold Rogers gang nor did he beat Whitebeard in any arc I have read so it would go to show he is not on part with them, even if they are not logia type users.
Would Shiki having Haki change that? I don't think it would have mattered anyway but again there is no definitive instance of usage of any type of Haki by Shiki so I think you should understand that at least.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Am I the only one who doesn't get this Shiki / Enel / Haki discussion? I have not the slightest idea what this is about and there are so many words...
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On December 05 2012 19:16 Fenrax wrote:
Am I the only one who doesn't get this Shiki / Enel / Haki discussion? I have not the slightest idea what this is about and there are so many words...
Started with whether or not Strong World was canon.
Some people thought it wasn't on the basis luffy could never beat Shiki, because he was considered powerful in his time. Then they claimed he had to be as strong as he was back in his prime, on the basis that haki doesn't age, under the assumption shiki had to have haki.
Apparently a lot of people think you need to have haki to be strong, and that haki is basically the explanation for every non-devil fruit move (like CP9 moves).
I argued with a guy for a bit, but you can only facepalm for so long until you realize they're a lost cause. A shame some people really are just that stupid to ignore everything we've been shown/told, and to instead run with random fabrications they've invented. Oh well.
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well i just want to see this bazooka otherwise boring
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The only real open question left for this arc is how they get rid of the gas.
Because it would block them from leaving the island atm
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yeah to the shiki thing yes we never saw shiki use haki so for that the shiki doubters are correct and they could be right for all we know even if its unlikely.
This chapter was really bad imo. Vergo finished with one blow, ceasar instead of using the gas to kill luffy no problem he instead sucked it in to go to some sort of power up mode which is obviously not gonna change the outcome if they fight anyway. Last chapter was good this one was meh.
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franky will come with an upgraded ship and he will rescue all!!!!!
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After the haki discussion and the antithesis topic, I got a sudden realization, Law's antithesis is actually Buggy the Clown.
His ability is basically like Law's ability in terms of how "room" works. It happens to be Buggy's range from his feet that can allow him to fly. So if he had more training, he could actually increase his range I believe. Also, Buggy can't theoretically be cut by Law as he can always put himself back together.
I always felt Buggy's power was actually good but never trained and mastered properly to its fullest potential. Maybe we'll see him in the new world in later arcs. =)
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Hmm....anyone getting a distinct impression that Vergo will be back for whenever Doflamingo gets his face kicked in? Like for someone else to beat? That or Smoker actually arrests him, but given he was just left right there...huh....
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On December 05 2012 21:49 Jalued wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 20:29 17Sphynx17 wrote:
After the haki discussion and the antithesis topic, I got a sudden realization, Law's antithesis is actually Buggy the Clown.
His ability is basically like Law's ability in terms of how "room" works. It happens to be Buggy's range from his feet that can allow him to fly. So if he had more training, he could actually increase his range I believe. Also, Buggy can't theoretically be cut by Law as he can always put himself back together.
I always felt Buggy's power was actually good but never trained and mastered properly to its fullest potential. Maybe we'll see him in the new world in later arcs. =) haha it's a nice idea but in reality, buiggy doesnt have the mental strength or will to ever amount to anything. I have a feeling that don flamingos ability will counter him because Law requires so much concentrating to use the room he won't be able to stop the joker from taking control of his body.
I thought Joker was just a puppeteer with strings and such? Wasn't that how he killed the giant Orz during the Whitebeard attack against the Marines?
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On December 05 2012 16:18 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 16:00 Spermwahale wrote:
i thought yonkous were a little stronger than admirals O.o. We know Whitebeard was. We know that Shank's mere presence was enough to get the Marines to back down at the end of the War. But beyond that, we don't know anything about their actual strengths, so we can only make guesses. The Admirals themselves are top tier in terms of power in One Piece, anyway.
Not that you are wrong with your statment, but it's not only Shanks.
He has a very small crew so they must all be really strong. Haki infused bullets that made kizaru stop from Shanks second in command plus lucky roux that is tought to be the fastest guy on one piece etc..
BTW the story is alot better now, nice chapter
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so can law not kill people in his room? y not just stab vergos head
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On December 06 2012 03:21 benston wrote:
so can law not kill people in his room? y not just stab vergos head
maybe hes not a fan of murder
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Oda is still saving deaths for major characters (Ace, eventually Blackbeard, Dragon?, who knows)
I'm willing to bet that most of the stonified people on the island will be revived somehow
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On December 06 2012 04:58 hooahah wrote:
Oda is still saving deaths for major characters (Ace, eventually Blackbeard, Dragon?, who knows)
I'm willing to bet that most of the stonified people on the island will be revived somehow
There is a good case to believe that they will be revived. They still have the same form like in a petrification so it could be undone just the same way. But I really hope it won't happen. I do not like revivings in stories. It always feels like getting cheated by fake emotion.
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It wouldn't be the first time - Oda has had people survive deadly poison, impalements, explosions, a nuclear-frigging-bomb - all of it in order to make Ace and Whiterbeard's death all that more dramatic
then again, The New World is fucking bonkers so who knows
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There were plenty of deaths in alabasta and whiskey peak, not too unheard of for cronies to go byebye
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Vergo made me think about how to stop non-DF haki users. Like seriously, the only way to do it is to beat the shit out of them and then keep them on the verge of death. Seastone won't do anything against them since they're just normal people and still have full strength with haki so handcuffs, walls, bars aren't going to stop them either. With Roger, he gave himself up and didn't care anymore, but if Vergo wasn't sliced up and stuck to different bits, being arrested by the marines wouldn't stop him for long unless there was an Admiral sitting outside his jail cell all day.
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EPT
