On June 03 2013 23:20 Sent. wrote: .A lot of you uses the term "red wedding". Was it ever mentioned in the episode? I'm pretty sure it wasn't, just like "queen of thorns". I understand it was called like that in the books but that would mean more than half of people in this thread have read them.
there's so much suspiciously accurate "guessing" in this thread that you can be reasonably positive that a lot of people are intentionally spoiling but hiding it as "predictions."
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
Well so far I would say his purpose was to show that Cat was not only one retarded but that it runs in her family. Edmure was incompetent or childish in every scene he appeared. Also the show needed a good reason to have this wedding :D
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
from that perspective you are kinda forgetting that the Riverlands are the biggest ally of Robb, and since Cat's father is sick > dying > dead there has to be a lord of riverrun, which is "why" he exists as a character. but again, i never understood this approach to following a story. imo trying to rationalize everything, understand "why" everything happens ruins the magic of the storytelling, which inherently means, not knowing what will happen. but that is for me, ofcourse :D
On June 03 2013 22:37 disciple wrote: Im glad to see TLs reaction to the red wedding. Reading all the hateful tweets towards HBO and Martin made me really disappointed with the mainstream audience, which as always completely rejects the unexpected. The reason people love the books so much is mainly because they are not the always predictable crap everyone is used to. I think HBO deserve a lot of respect for producing this material into a TV show - its quite the rebelion against a century of predictable movie writing and shitty screenplays.
This.
I hope people who are saying they will stop watching the show because of this are not serious. I mean, what's the point watching a movie/show or reading a book if you can predict everything? I can't see what kind of satisfaction you can get from that.
On June 04 2013 00:10 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this sadness and rooting for house stark. Ultimately they are just another family fighting for power. Deaths like these makes great, unprdictable story.
They never fought for power. In matter of fact, Ned never wanted to be the hand of the king. And Robb had no choice but go to war to save his father and sisters in King's Landing. I like the Starks because they are probably the most honorable and honest house in Westeros. Unfortunately honesty in a world like Westeros doesn't really work out for you.
Ironically, it is not honor that costed Starks their house and lives, it is the few situations in which Robb in particular failed to display sense of justice and honor - such as mishandling the affair with Cat releasing Jaime, and breaking his promise to the Freys.
I think it's slightly superficial to view Westeros as the place where you necessarily get punished for having "positive" character traits. It's the world where you get punished for the mistakes you make no matter what sort of a person you are - just look at Jaime and Theon (in some ways their fate is arguably as bad as or worse than Ned's and Robb's).
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
from that perspective you are kinda forgetting that the Riverlands are the biggest ally of Robb, and since Cat's father is sick > dying > dead there has to be a lord of riverrun, which is "why" he exists as a character. but again, i never understood this approach to following a story. imo trying to rationalize everything, understand "why" everything happens ruins the magic of the storytelling, which inherently means, not knowing what will happen. but that is for me, ofcourse :D
thanks for explaining.
I guess its true that the Riverlands could still fight, but if North + Riverlands couldn't be Lannister, there's no way Riverlands could stand against Lannister+Frey+Bolton.
Yeah, I just like to use that method of guessing because ultimately the story was written by a guy. I'm pretty sure at this point I'll just stop using it because holy shit he killed everyone.
Also, I promise I've never even opened one of the books, but I just like guessing about whats going to happen in a story. If that's problematic I'll stop.
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
It'd be silly to kill Edmure, he's the lord of Riverrun right now, and the Walder family only gets it if he gets his new wife pregnant.
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
It'd be silly to kill Edmure, he's the lord of Riverrun right now, and the Walder family only gets it if he gets his new wife pregnant.
I guess that makes sense. I feel like anyone on the Crown's side could just walk in and be like, sup we're in charge now. I don't think anyone really has the capability to fight them.
On June 04 2013 00:30 Cold Warpgates wrote: I feel like Edmure is dead, his character only really existed to give us the illusion of hope.
what makes you think that...
I just think that because he appeared in the story at basically just the right time to get married off. That was his whole role in the show, the dumb relative who Robb could marry to a Frey girl to get an army. That obviously isn't gonna happen anymore. SO, either he gets killed offscreen, OR i guess he suddenly becomes really important somehow as he tries to avenge Robb or something. The first option just seems more likely to me.
from that perspective you are kinda forgetting that the Riverlands are the biggest ally of Robb, and since Cat's father is sick > dying > dead there has to be a lord of riverrun, which is "why" he exists as a character. but again, i never understood this approach to following a story. imo trying to rationalize everything, understand "why" everything happens ruins the magic of the storytelling, which inherently means, not knowing what will happen. but that is for me, ofcourse :D
thanks for explaining.
I guess its true that the Riverlands could still fight, but if North + Riverlands couldn't be Lannister, there's no way Riverlands could stand against Lannister+Frey+Bolton.
Yeah, I just like to use that method of guessing because ultimately the story was written by a guy. I'm pretty sure at this point I'll just stop using it because holy shit he killed everyone.
Also, I promise I've never even opened one of the books, but I just like guessing about whats going to happen in a story. If that's problematic I'll stop.
no thats not what i meant at all, by all means keep guessing. i have actually read most of the books. but what i meant is that i see alot of people in this thread, but also in other threads (usually about tvseries) trying to rationalise "why" a character is in the show. like everyone has to have a valid reason, and i guess for screenplays, with the limited amount of time they have, it might make sense not to have "useless" characters, but i just dont like this economical approach to understanding a story.
in the end all i meant to say i think is, that it doesnt have to make "sense" which is usually the first people will say in shock of some of the things they saw in this show, or other shows OMG IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. and im not saying i dont understand it, ive had that reaction a few times myself too.
im totaly paralized by this episode . i was on the verge of crying like a baby after ive seen it and while im writing this im feeling kind of empty...i know its only a fictional story but still... i loved those charakters and actually i feel wordless about how evil men ( in this case walder frey and ofc the lannisters mainly tywin and cersei ) can be and that they heave absolutly no honour. i have read only the 1 book so far so i really really really hope that the starks will be able to take revenge for this event Edit : THEY EVEN KILLED THE WOLFS ((((((((((((((((((((((((((( atm im hating Got ....
On June 04 2013 00:10 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this sadness and rooting for house stark. Ultimately they are just another family fighting for power. Deaths like these makes great, unprdictable story.
They never fought for power. In matter of fact, Ned never wanted to be the hand of the king. And Robb had no choice but go to war to save his father and sisters in King's Landing. I like the Starks because they are probably the most honorable and honest house in Westeros. Unfortunately honesty in a world like Westeros doesn't really work out for you.
Ironically, it is not honor that costed Starks their house and lives, it is the few situations in which Robb in particular failed to display sense of justice and honor - such as mishandling the affair with Cat releasing Jaime, and breaking his promise to the Freys.
I think it's slightly superficial to view Westeros as the place where you necessarily get punished for having "positive" character traits. It's the world where you get punished for the mistakes you make no matter what sort of a person you are - just look at Jaime and Theon (in some ways their fate is arguably as bad as or worse than Ned's and Robb's).
Well he wouldn't have even had to go to the freys if he hadn't been so honour-bound in dealing with Lord Karstark
Robbs story was my favorite arc.. So did they end up killing his whole army camped outside? Didn't he have like 20,000 troops still? Seems like it would have been quite a war.
On June 04 2013 00:10 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this sadness and rooting for house stark. Ultimately they are just another family fighting for power. Deaths like these makes great, unprdictable story.
They never fought for power. In matter of fact, Ned never wanted to be the hand of the king. And Robb had no choice but go to war to save his father and sisters in King's Landing. I like the Starks because they are probably the most honorable and honest house in Westeros. Unfortunately honesty in a world like Westeros doesn't really work out for you.
Ironically, it is not honor that costed Starks their house and lives, it is the few situations in which Robb in particular failed to display sense of justice and honor - such as mishandling the affair with Cat releasing Jaime, and breaking his promise to the Freys.
I think it's slightly superficial to view Westeros as the place where you necessarily get punished for having "positive" character traits. It's the world where you get punished for the mistakes you make no matter what sort of a person you are - just look at Jaime and Theon (in some ways their fate is arguably as bad as or worse than Ned's and Robb's).
If you were in Catelyn's position you would have done the same thing because Littlefinger promised her the kids and also gave her Ned's body. If Robb married the Frey girl, at this point it wouldn't even matter because the Boltons were already plotting against the Starks before Robb needed Frey men to take Casterly Rock.. If the Starks weren't so honorable they would have played the game as dirty as Tywin did.
I was prepared, I'd read the books and I didn't attach myself emotionally to Robb and yet this episode hit me like a truck. The way they've executed the crazy stuff is perfect in this season.
On June 04 2013 00:10 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this sadness and rooting for house stark. Ultimately they are just another family fighting for power. Deaths like these makes great, unprdictable story.
They never fought for power. In matter of fact, Ned never wanted to be the hand of the king. And Robb had no choice but go to war to save his father and sisters in King's Landing. I like the Starks because they are probably the most honorable and honest house in Westeros. Unfortunately honesty in a world like Westeros doesn't really work out for you.
Ironically, it is not honor that costed Starks their house and lives, it is the few situations in which Robb in particular failed to display sense of justice and honor - such as mishandling the affair with Cat releasing Jaime, and breaking his promise to the Freys.
I think it's slightly superficial to view Westeros as the place where you necessarily get punished for having "positive" character traits. It's the world where you get punished for the mistakes you make no matter what sort of a person you are - just look at Jaime and Theon (in some ways their fate is arguably as bad as or worse than Ned's and Robb's).
I think we can easily conclude that theon's fate is the worst by far lol.
EPT
OMG IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. and im not saying i dont understand it, ive had that reaction a few times myself too.
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