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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 13 2013 10:11 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 10:06 Prplppleatr wrote:
And how about you guys just drop the rape thing, it's a bit off track and doesn't really have anything to do with the story whether you consider them to be raped or just treated badly It is pretty important for the quality of the story if Drogo raped Dany or not. I think it is safe to say that women do not fall in love with their rapists, so it would mean that we are watching a pretty terrible show if he did indeed rape her. You can fall in love with your rapist, you can fall in love with someone who beats you or has even taken you hostage at gun point, for crying out loud. Nor would the inconsistency between Dany loving her rapist change what blatantly occurred. He raped her. What came after may be distasteful or implausible to you given that fact, but it IS what occurred.
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you're being ridiculous by equating all the arranged marriages in the show to the one between drogo and daenerys. not all of them are the same. by any stretch. the logic will lead to the conclusion that no, not all men of the era are rapists. dont say stupid things.
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Not the best episode of season, but a lot of plot and character development happened this episode.
I'm only disappointed that it's the second episode in a row we've seen no Stannis.
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On May 13 2013 11:05 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 10:50 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 13 2013 09:49 StyLeD wrote:On May 13 2013 09:02 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 13 2013 08:53 silencefc wrote:
What about statutory rape? It's rape in our definition due to the "inability to consent properly," yet in GoT most females are wed off soon after their first period.
What they do is rape by our standards, but the characters don't see it as such. Our definition of rape does not 100% apply to their world and time. Just because someone doesn't know they're a slave doesn't mean they're not a slave and just because someone doesn't understand what they're having happen to them is slavery and rape doesn't mean it's not rape or slavery. Our definition holds, it just implies their culture is insufficient of understanding it. That's rather elitist of you. Different cultures, different customs...what we attach to the word "rape" would be far too severe a connotation in their world... If someone today had equivalent morals to medieval era (what GoT is based in) morals, we'd still call it rape if he forced a women to marry him, raped her at night and called it lawful because of his "set of mind". It's not elitist to call rape, rape it is idiotic to justify the actions of others because their moral compass is lesser then ours... Unless you're arguing that we can't judge their moral compass as lesser and rape and slavery are adequate pastimes which is a slippery and ridiculous argument. And if someone from our era went to the GoT world and claimed that pretty much all men are rapists because most marriages are arranged by their parents they would hang him by the next tree. King Robert? Rapist. Ned Stark? Rapist. Edmure Tully? Most likely soon to be a rapist. That is the point. Different eras.
That's not a valid argument to nullify rapists... Saying everyone does it does not justify the action or make it any more moral for the time period, all we can say is they were all aptly ignorant to morality that we've been learned into but you can't simply say that, because everyone does something, it is moral for that period of time.
I don't see an argument here other then schoolyard antics but maybe I'm missing a silver lining, maybe you're not advocating that something, in any given period of time, is simply just because the people deem it so. In "THAT" period of time it is just but we can, as more advanced humans, look back and reflect on their barbaric ways and say things such as "that was immoral" and give reasons as to why it was; it's still immoral.
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This season has really altered my opinions of a lot of the characters. Rob seems weaker, Jayme seems like he may not be a terrible guy, and I feel some sympathy for poor Theon now.
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I wish Tormond's Giantsbane was my uncle. He's one of the few characters on the show I'd like to hang out with. Tormond Giantsbane, myself, Bronn and Salladhor Saan, would have a good time in Westeros. They should spin that show off.
Also, Robb's got a solid butt.
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United States43565 Posts
On May 13 2013 11:05 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 10:50 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 13 2013 09:49 StyLeD wrote:On May 13 2013 09:02 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 13 2013 08:53 silencefc wrote:
What about statutory rape? It's rape in our definition due to the "inability to consent properly," yet in GoT most females are wed off soon after their first period.
What they do is rape by our standards, but the characters don't see it as such. Our definition of rape does not 100% apply to their world and time. Just because someone doesn't know they're a slave doesn't mean they're not a slave and just because someone doesn't understand what they're having happen to them is slavery and rape doesn't mean it's not rape or slavery. Our definition holds, it just implies their culture is insufficient of understanding it. That's rather elitist of you. Different cultures, different customs...what we attach to the word "rape" would be far too severe a connotation in their world... If someone today had equivalent morals to medieval era (what GoT is based in) morals, we'd still call it rape if he forced a women to marry him, raped her at night and called it lawful because of his "set of mind". It's not elitist to call rape, rape it is idiotic to justify the actions of others because their moral compass is lesser then ours... Unless you're arguing that we can't judge their moral compass as lesser and rape and slavery are adequate pastimes which is a slippery and ridiculous argument. And if someone from our era went to the GoT world and claimed that pretty much all men are rapists because most marriages are arranged by their parents they would hang him by the next tree. King Robert? Rapist. Ned Stark? Rapist. Edmure Tully? Most likely soon to be a rapist. That is the point. Different eras.
If your argument is that it's not rape because it happens a lot, is broadly accepted by society in the right context and would brand certain known and respected individuals rapists then I have some rather shocking news about the real world for you too.
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On May 13 2013 12:05 Muggs wrote:
This season has really altered my opinions of a lot of the characters. Rob seems weaker, Jayme seems like he may not be a terrible guy, and I feel some sympathy for poor Theon now.
I still don't feel bad for theon
he's a jerk
he killed those innocent kids in season 2.
that's the point of no fucking return, in my opinion
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You are guys are arguing about morality in regards to a fantasy book...
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United States43565 Posts
On May 13 2013 12:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
You are guys are arguing about morality in regards to a fantasy book...
Absolutely. How else are we meant to judge characters if not by moral standards? The rights of man are moral absolutes and can be applied to fictional humans without any real problems.
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On May 13 2013 12:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 12:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
You are guys are arguing about morality in regards to a fantasy book... Absolutely. How else are we meant to judge characters if not by moral standards? The rights of man are moral absolutes and can be applied to fictional humans without any real problems.
Kwark, a leading feminist on these forums, say's "the rights of man" : D love it. Obviously I'm only poking fun but I do enjoy the comment as it would jerk some feminists sideways 
I agree with your statement though : D
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I'm disappointed, I was hoping that guy that chopped Jamies hand off would get killled or pushed into the bear pit. On an unrelated note, I find it amusing that Joffrey consistently kind of has a 'modern' conception of things, yet is otherwise sadistic and undisciplined. He envisioned the modern army in season one, and he was expecting a relatively modern notion of Cabinet ministers reporting to their executive as well. Not to mention he took the far sighted position on Danny, which Tywin did not.
edit: and come on, theon got castrated...grrm is a perv. Basically everyone in the show gets raped and castrated.
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Jamie is such a freaking champ.
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I never thought I wouldn't hate Jamie, but he's starting to grow on me.
It's remarkable that GoT is approaching the end of its 3rd season and I can't think of a single bad episode. Sure, there were some that were weaker than others, but none that were bad.
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I hope for theon's sake that he dies soon, watching him being tortured is starting to make me feel bad for him.
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so...why did Jaimie ride out all the way and then ride back if he could have pulled the exact same stunt as soon as Bolton left. Honestly I'd rather have seen Brienne kill the bear with her wooden sword then the half assed way she was saved instead.
"What are you going to do, kill me if she doesnt come?"
"Nope, we will just knock you unconscious and then drop her back into the bear bit. safe travels" *knocks him unconscious*
Why the show/writer insists on adding needless drama to a show that has loads of it already always annoys me.
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On May 13 2013 13:04 Scribble wrote:
I never thought I wouldn't hate Jamie, but he's starting to grow on me.
for most book readers it was the same too, it's like if you told me Jaime would be my favorite character during the time line of seasons 1 and 2 I'd laugh in your face but after the events of season 3 it quickly changed around for me
I really like how Nikolaj Coster Waldau phrased it something along the lines of "Imagine judging someone or entering their life during a period where they are at their lowest, everyone has done bad things and in Jaime's case we are introduced to him in this period." Also it helps that the actor is portraying Jaime almost 100% perfect to how I imagined him
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On May 13 2013 13:11 Sub40APM wrote:
so...why did Jaimie ride out all the way and then ride back if he could have pulled the exact same stunt as soon as Bolton left. Honestly I'd rather have seen Brienne kill the bear with her wooden sword then the half assed way she was saved instead.
"What are you going to do, kill me if she doesnt come?"
"Nope, we will just knock you unconscious and then drop her back into the bear bit. safe travels" *knocks him unconscious*
Why the show/writer insists on adding needless drama to a show that has loads of it already always annoys me.
The conversation with Qyburn explains this, Jaime assumed Locke would try ransom Brienne back to her father and she would be sent back to Tarth. When he finds out they didn't accept the ransom offer due to Jaime's lie about Tarth having sapphires, he felt guilty and knew he had to go back.
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EPT
