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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Zurich15361 Posts
I thought along similar lines when we discussed the Tywin - Ollena power struggle earlier. As long as the war is going, and with winter coming, the Tyrells have the upper hand. The Lannisters need the Tyrell resources, and there is no one really who they could buy food from if the Tyrells refuse. So all their riches don't help them into a strong position over the Tyrells, so that is why Ollena could argue so boldly with Tywin.
In a hypothetical peaceful situation though the Lannisters (and the crown) would be much better off economically, if they can choose who to buy from (Reach, Riverlands, Stormlands, North). Right now they are very much depending on Tyrell resources though.
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On May 10 2013 09:58 Holo82 wrote:
Sam is the prototype of intellectual /cleric /priestlike leader: no big muscle, swordswing dumb guy that does as him is said(like jamie lannister),
he is a intelligent person with an own mind, making brave decisions even against authorities, if he is rightfully convinced of something he will do it, no matter what his boss says.
Thats why he became vice-president of nightwatch guys, i think.
Speculations:
And that dagger from the ancients he is wearing has some role, i bet. it reminded me on lord of the ring, where one little guy found a weapon in a grave, that was the only blade on the whole continent to be able to hurt the nazghul boss. I am pretty sure, that weapon has something similar to show in future, hopefully he will be the guy that saves westeros from the crazy dragon lady daenerys.
Yeah, dragons are cute, as long as they are small.... But they grow. And those dragons are needed to kill off those whitewalkers guys in the north. Next step is than using the dagger to stop Daenerys from conquering whole westeross, and at the end, arya will be queen of whole westeros
(thats how i would have developped the story).
The witch king in lotr can be killed by no man, so he only dies when he realises eowyn is female, if i remember correct. Its been a long time
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That's how the movies present it. It's actually the sword of the Dunedain used by the Hobbit that made the Nazgul vulnerable. The movies didnt have the Barrow-Downs in it so the importance and power of the swords the Hobbits found there was ignored in the movie.
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On May 10 2013 09:58 Holo82 wrote:
Sam is the prototype of intellectual /cleric /priestlike leader: no big muscle, swordswing dumb guy that does as him is said(like jamie lannister),
he is a intelligent person with an own mind, making brave decisions even against authorities, if he is rightfully convinced of something he will do it, no matter what his boss says.
Thats why he became vice-president of nightwatch guys, i think.
Speculations:
And that dagger from the ancients he is wearing has some role, i bet. it reminded me on lord of the ring, where one little guy found a weapon in a grave, that was the only blade on the whole continent to be able to hurt the nazghul boss. I am pretty sure, that weapon has something similar to show in future, hopefully he will be the guy that saves westeros from the crazy dragon lady daenerys.
Yeah, dragons are cute, as long as they are small.... But they grow. And those dragons are needed to kill off those whitewalkers guys in the north. Next step is than using the dagger to stop Daenerys from conquering whole westeross, and at the end, arya will be queen of whole westeros
(thats how i would have developped the story).
Surely if you were to develop the story, you'd want Sansa to be queen of westeros. The game of thrones appears to reward those characters with strong political skills (i.e. NOT Ned stark), and Sansa is in the best position to be to learn all of those skills. Afterall, she is surrounded by Baelish, Cersei, Varys, margaery, margaery's mother, and so on and so forth.
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On May 10 2013 20:43 sigma_x wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 09:58 Holo82 wrote:
Sam is the prototype of intellectual /cleric /priestlike leader: no big muscle, swordswing dumb guy that does as him is said(like jamie lannister),
he is a intelligent person with an own mind, making brave decisions even against authorities, if he is rightfully convinced of something he will do it, no matter what his boss says.
Thats why he became vice-president of nightwatch guys, i think.
Speculations:
And that dagger from the ancients he is wearing has some role, i bet. it reminded me on lord of the ring, where one little guy found a weapon in a grave, that was the only blade on the whole continent to be able to hurt the nazghul boss. I am pretty sure, that weapon has something similar to show in future, hopefully he will be the guy that saves westeros from the crazy dragon lady daenerys.
Yeah, dragons are cute, as long as they are small.... But they grow. And those dragons are needed to kill off those whitewalkers guys in the north. Next step is than using the dagger to stop Daenerys from conquering whole westeross, and at the end, arya will be queen of whole westeros
(thats how i would have developped the story). Surely if you were to develop the story, you'd want Sansa to be queen of westeros. The game of thrones appears to reward those characters with strong political skills (i.e. NOT Ned stark), and Sansa is in the best position to be to learn all of those skills. Afterall, she is surrounded by Baelish, Cersei, Varys, margaery, margaery's mother, and so on and so forth.
She is a terrible lier though!
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No way Sansa is going to be queen of westeros. She's too kind.
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How i would develop the story, part 2:
Sansa is going to marry the gay guy from the tyrells, after cersei gets killed by geoffry when he finds out that jamie is his real father. Jamie turns mad,kills geoffry, kingslayer once, kingslayer forever.
Rob gets killed in battle with lannister guys, and arya revenges him by wiping out the lannisters completely, takes over the throne, meanwhile daenerys kills off the whitewalker guys and afterwards get defeated by the nightwatch sam and jon snow´s wildling army..
Baratheon daughter marry one of the stark boys, i assume the paralyzed one, and everything is fine.
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On May 10 2013 21:07 Holo82 wrote:
How i would develop the story, part 2:
Sansa is going to marry the gay guy from the tyrells, after cersei gets killed by geoffry when he finds out that jamie is his father. Jamie than kills geoffry, kingslayer once, kingslayer forever.
But with the help of his newly wife Brienne de Tarth, Jaime makes amend and becomes Kingsguard again with his beloved. And Arya becomes queen and Hotpie is back to become King!
BOOOOMMMMM ... NAILED IT!!!
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On May 10 2013 20:07 Spykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 09:58 Holo82 wrote:
Sam is the prototype of intellectual /cleric /priestlike leader: no big muscle, swordswing dumb guy that does as him is said(like jamie lannister),
he is a intelligent person with an own mind, making brave decisions even against authorities, if he is rightfully convinced of something he will do it, no matter what his boss says.
Thats why he became vice-president of nightwatch guys, i think.
Speculations:
And that dagger from the ancients he is wearing has some role, i bet. it reminded me on lord of the ring, where one little guy found a weapon in a grave, that was the only blade on the whole continent to be able to hurt the nazghul boss. I am pretty sure, that weapon has something similar to show in future, hopefully he will be the guy that saves westeros from the crazy dragon lady daenerys.
Yeah, dragons are cute, as long as they are small.... But they grow. And those dragons are needed to kill off those whitewalkers guys in the north. Next step is than using the dagger to stop Daenerys from conquering whole westeross, and at the end, arya will be queen of whole westeros
(thats how i would have developped the story). The witch king in lotr can be killed by no man, so he only dies when he realises eowyn is female, if i remember correct. Its been a long time
He dies because of the blade that Merry stabbed him with. It broke the magic keeping him bound to this world, so after that anyone could have killed him it just so happend that Eowyn was female. However this isnt explained in the movies if you have only seen them you only get to see Merry stabb him, not the effects it has.
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On May 10 2013 21:20 Faceroll52 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 20:07 Spykiller wrote:On May 10 2013 09:58 Holo82 wrote:
Sam is the prototype of intellectual /cleric /priestlike leader: no big muscle, swordswing dumb guy that does as him is said(like jamie lannister),
he is a intelligent person with an own mind, making brave decisions even against authorities, if he is rightfully convinced of something he will do it, no matter what his boss says.
Thats why he became vice-president of nightwatch guys, i think.
Speculations:
And that dagger from the ancients he is wearing has some role, i bet. it reminded me on lord of the ring, where one little guy found a weapon in a grave, that was the only blade on the whole continent to be able to hurt the nazghul boss. I am pretty sure, that weapon has something similar to show in future, hopefully he will be the guy that saves westeros from the crazy dragon lady daenerys.
Yeah, dragons are cute, as long as they are small.... But they grow. And those dragons are needed to kill off those whitewalkers guys in the north. Next step is than using the dagger to stop Daenerys from conquering whole westeross, and at the end, arya will be queen of whole westeros
(thats how i would have developped the story). The witch king in lotr can be killed by no man, so he only dies when he realises eowyn is female, if i remember correct. Its been a long time He dies because of the blade that Merry stabbed him with. It broke the magic keeping him bound to this world, so after that anyone could have killed him it just so happend that Eowyn was female. However this isnt explained in the movies if you have only seen them you only get to see Merry stabb him, not the effects it has.
Wasn't it a triple word play? "No man can kill him." a) Merry is a Hobbit, not a man. b) Eowyn is female, not a man. c) Merry and Eowyn worked together, thus it was not a man, but men. Or.. people, I guess.
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On May 10 2013 21:07 Holo82 wrote:
How i would develop the story, part 2:
Sansa is going to marry the gay guy from the tyrells, after cersei gets killed by geoffry when he finds out that jamie is his real father. Jamie turns mad,kills geoffry, kingslayer once, kingslayer forever.
Rob gets killed in battle with lannister guys, and arya revenges him by wiping out the lannisters completely, takes over the throne, meanwhile daenerys kills off the whitewalker guys and afterwards get defeated by the nightwatch sam and jon snow´s wildling army..
Baratheon daughter marry one of the stark boys, i assume the paralyzed one, and everything is fine.
Spoiler alert, the Song of Ice and Fire will end in dragons roasting Whites.
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On May 10 2013 18:40 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 17:33 Parcelleus wrote:
Sam is gosu in my book, gentle human with a very big heart.
He is an annoying, fail version of Hodor. I would go as far to say as Hodor is smarter than Sam in every way, so what if he can read? Hodor wouldn't run into the wilderness with some random chick to play daddy while surrounded by zombies and cutthroats. Even when Hodor speaks it sounds smarter than Sam. We don't actually know what Hodor is thinking to confirm he is an imbecile which I can't say for Sam. edit: Also pretty sure Hodor can light a fire gg
It isnt a competition. Hodor is Hodor, Sam is Sam. 'So what if he can read ?' um, most people can't.
Also, he could of just run and looked after himself, but he didnt, he went back for the mother and child to save them from certain strife. Sure he may find it difficult to protect them, but the fact he takes on the extra responsibility shows his big heart again.
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As far as i remember the books, it was that Theoden, King of Rohan charged in, and got knocked out by Nazghul King, and Theoden lay (edit: past tens of lie is lay. not lied... english = very confusing sometims, as lay has another meaning than lie, and in german its the same word for both... wahhhh)
under his horse, dieing. Nazghul tried to finish him off, and Eowyn (who rode on the same horse than Merry) went in between, shielding the strike, which broke her arm. Then marry takes his dagger and charges the Nazghul king, hitting him in the heel / foot (achilles motif), and the ghost king startet to melt away due to the blades magic (the blade dissolved in the process too), and his ghostly essence couldnt stay /materialize in the real world any more, the magic was broken, and he was banished forever from the realm. I dont recall eowyn striking him in the books.
And yeah "he canot be killed by man" , he was killed by a half-men /hobbit and a women, so the prophecy was fulfilled. I tend to think it is more referring to Merry , the hobbit, than to Eowyn the women, as she only was shielding the strike (which broke her arm badly, and thats why she got in hospital, where she met her future husband, faramir). But i dont know the exact wording in english (would it be worded in the sense of man, or human), as i only possess german version, where the wording was trending towards human /mankind in general. Could be translation inaccuracy, though.
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Either he is very wrong or I don't understand his argument . The quote from the webpage is correct. Having currency (which sole purpose is to trade for goods) is less valuable then already having the goods. Also because those goods are necessary ( food for winter ) It is a very good investment to have. That is all well understood, but the premise does not lead to the conclusion that tyrells are richer than lannister. Lord Tywin invested his money in winning the crown. For all practical purposes he is the king which means he could tax the Tyrells if we wanted to, and they don't own a monopoly on food. I've examined each case of how they Tyrell's could leverage and they would lose every time.
tl;dr yes Tyrell's investment ( crops ) grow during winter, but Tywin invested his gold ( army ) in winning the crown which has better long and short term perks. Tyrell's investments are terrible long term because they HAVE to sell their food or else it will be worth nothing, while gold keeps shining.
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On May 10 2013 22:09 adh wrote: Either he is very wrong or I don't understand his argument . The quote from the webpage is correct. Having currency (which sole purpose is to trade for goods) is less valuable then already having the goods. Also because those goods are necessary ( food for winter ) It is a very good investment to have. That is all well understood, but the premise does not lead to the conclusion that tyrells are richer than lannister. Lord Tywin invested his money in winning the crown. For all practical purposes he is the king which means he could tax the Tyrells if we wanted to, and they don't own a monopoly on food. I've examined each case of how they Tyrell's could leverage and they would lose every time. tl;dr yes Tyrell's investment ( crops ) grow during winter, but Tywin invested his gold ( army ) in winning the crown which has better long and short term perks. Tyrell's investments are terrible long term because they HAVE to sell their food or else it will be worth nothing, while gold keeps shining.
2 points:
1 - try eating gold ... it might last longer but your gold won't feed you
2 - go tell Geoffrey that Tywinn is in charge ...
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On May 10 2013 21:42 Holo82 wrote:
As far as i remember the books, it was that Theoden, King of Rohan charged in, and got knocked out by Nazghul King, and Theoden lay (edit: past tens of lie is lay. not lied... english = very confusing sometims, as lay has another meaning than lie, and in german its the same word for both... wahhhh)
under his horse, dieing. Nazghul tried to finish him off, and Eowyn (who rode on the same horse than Merry) went in between, shielding the strike, which broke her arm. Then marry takes his dagger and charges the Nazghul king, hitting him in the heel / foot (achilles motif), and the ghost king startet to melt away due to the blades magic (the blade dissolved in the process too), and his ghostly essence couldnt stay /materialize in the real world any more, the magic was broken, and he was banished forever from the realm. I dont recall eowyn striking him in the books.
And yeah "he canot be killed by man" , he was killed by a half-men /hobbit and a women, so the prophecy was fulfilled. I tend to think it is more referring to Merry , the hobbit, than to Eowyn the women, as she only was shielding the strike (which broke her arm badly, and thats why she got in hospital, where she met her future husband, faramir). But i dont know the exact wording in english (would it be worded in the sense of man, or human), as i only possess german version, where the wording was trending towards human /mankind in general. Could be translation inaccuracy, though.
When Theoden is on the ground under his horse, Eowyn steps in between and kills the fell beast and first then does Angmar himself attack her and shatter her shield with one swing of his mace breaking her arm. When he is about to finish the job, Merry stabs him in the back of his knee. This sword he stabs him with breaks Saurons magic over him wich anchors him to this world and then Eowyn does actually attack him, she stabs where the head should have been and he dies. Thus the prophecy does come true, he wasnt killed by a man but a hobbit and woman but my original point still stands, he didn't die because Eowyn was simply a woman, but the blade that Merryn stabbed him with.
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On May 10 2013 22:15 Emix_Squall wrote:
2 - go tell Geoffrey that Tywinn is in charge ...
That would actually be pretty interesting. We've had scenes of Tywin talking down to all of his family now. It would be awesome to have Tywin clash with Joffrey. I can already imagining him screaming "But I'm the king!" in desperation..
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On May 10 2013 22:23 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 22:15 Emix_Squall wrote:
2 - go tell Geoffrey that Tywinn is in charge ... That would actually be pretty interesting. We've had scenes of Tywin talking down to all of his family now. It would be awesome to have Tywin clash with Joffrey. I can already imagining him screaming "But I'm the king!" in desperation..
If it wasn't for Cersei, Tyrion would had handle Joffrey just fine. I don't think Cersei will be in the middle between Joffrey and Tywin now.
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On May 10 2013 22:31 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 22:23 Conti wrote:On May 10 2013 22:15 Emix_Squall wrote:
2 - go tell Geoffrey that Tywinn is in charge ... That would actually be pretty interesting. We've had scenes of Tywin talking down to all of his family now. It would be awesome to have Tywin clash with Joffrey. I can already imagining him screaming "But I'm the king!" in desperation.. If it wasn't for Cersei, Tyrion would had handle Joffrey just fine. I don't think Cersei will be in the middle between Joffrey and Tywin now.
Well she doesn't want to ... so yes
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EPT
