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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 07 2013 20:37 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:37 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Emix_Squall wrote:
FUCK THE WALL!!!! CLIMB THE LADDER!!!!
Awesome Littlefinger monologue here (though the images used were a bit simplistic), he brings tension in the story to another level and totally justifies Varys's fear of him being the most dangerous man in Westeros. I generally like him, but I dont like how he has changed his voice to super raspy now. Its a little over the top. Batman not doing it for you?
That one always made me cringe as well. :D
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On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable.
Pieces seem to fall off in mighty chunks up at the top : D magic could 'keep it standing' but doesnt mean it can't fall but yeah, i agree it doesnt matter much in the lore.
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On May 07 2013 20:37 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:35 Emix_Squall wrote:
FUCK THE WALL!!!! CLIMB THE LADDER!!!!
Awesome Littlefinger monologue here (though the images used were a bit simplistic), he brings tension in the story to another level and totally justifies Varys's fear of him being the most dangerous man in Westeros. I generally like him, but I dont like how he has changed his voice to super raspy now. Its a little over the top.
Ahah agreed, but as someone said it's the Batstyle ... can't help it
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On May 07 2013 16:25 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 16:08 Zooper31 wrote:On May 07 2013 16:01 frontliner2 wrote:
I hated the detail of the torture in this episode, it haunted me for a few hours, made me feel horrible. :S
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And Loras might as well be bi-sexual instead of gay, we don't know that do we? I mean the guy is talking about the wedding and how much hes dreamed of having one with all the fancy stuff, including "fringed" dresses. If he's not gay then idk what is. You can like romantic stuff AND be straight. It was more how awkward and hard it was for him to talk to Sansa that told us that he hasn't even the slightest interest in women. I can't believe how Tywin still manages to shock me. He really didn't even hesitate to do to Loras and his family what Aerys Targaryen did to the Lannisters: "You are screwing with me? Ok, let's put your oldest son into the King's Guard and basically steal your worthiest heir." Tywin doesn't give a shit. Has anyone still any sympathy for Joffrey? That's not just a spoiled child with no father figure. He's outright insane. Joffrey and the guy who tortures Theon should be best friend forever.
Some people had sympathy for Joffrey ?
I mean he's one of the only character that is straight up evil. I can understand where that comes from, doesn't make me feel sympathy.
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I recently finished season 2 and i can't wait for season 3! This effin sucks to live near the vikings, takes ages to get a chance to see those new episodes.
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On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable.
Much global warming going on in Westeros?
The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited.
Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up.
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On May 07 2013 21:28 thatHEARTY wrote:
I recently finished season 2 and i can't wait for season 3! This effin sucks to live near the vikings, takes ages to get a chance to see those new episodes.
You dont have HBONordic in Finland?
www.hbonordic.com
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On May 07 2013 21:32 Spykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:28 thatHEARTY wrote:
I recently finished season 2 and i can't wait for season 3! This effin sucks to live near the vikings, takes ages to get a chance to see those new episodes. You dont have HBONordic in Finland? www.hbonordic.com
Oh, we have it seems! I haven't heard of this site never! : D Thanks for the tip!
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On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:
Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up.
probably much easier, faster and more economic to use a chisel and an ice grater, like how you make ice sculptures
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On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited. Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up.
....All you would need to take down a ridiculous wall like that is build sapping tunnels/mines. The wall is way too long for them to patrol all areas. As Jon said, only 3 of the castles are manned. The wildlings could easily sap multiple sites all along the wall and break through. Without support at the base, the wall would collapse in on itself and open up huge gaps.
Then again, ASoI&F has never been realistic.
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On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited. Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up.
if you start to bring physics into this...the wall would not stand at all. the ice on the bottom would be melted under the weight of the ice above, or at least pushed to the side. there is a reason glaciers migrates, and dont just stay were the are.
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On May 07 2013 21:53 Snotling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited. Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up. if you start to bring physics into this...the wall would not stand at all. the ice on the bottom would be melted under the weight of the ice above, or at least pushed to the side. there is a reason glaciers migrates, and dont just stay were the are.
This is dependent on the ice just resting on top of the ground and not extending underground an unknown depth.
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On May 07 2013 21:53 Snotling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited. Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up. if you start to bring physics into this...the wall would not stand at all. the ice on the bottom would be melted under the weight of the ice above, or at least pushed to the side. there is a reason glaciers migrates, and dont just stay were the are.
It's ok, this guy obvs never took much in the way of geotherms or physics in his life... He just "imagines" that's how it works, it's cold so giant walls of ice can exist by themselves loloololol. Without 'magic' this is the most structurally instable thing ever to exist, it would tumble at the slightest breeze or temp change let alone simply caving in on itself.
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On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer.
No it is not in a permafrost climate. There are trees, which means its not permafrost.
Ok the TV show chose to show the wall in a snowy environment, so that people dont immediately realize that the wall would actually have to melt. But that doesnt change the fact that the wall in the GoT world is NOT in a permafrost zone, not even tundric.
While we are at it we could of course also talk about how winters that last years dont make any sense. No normal plants would survive that. And how do you know whats a year if it wasnt for the seasons?
Lets just stop it, the wall and all kind of other stuff does not make sense in a non-magical context.
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On May 07 2013 21:58 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. No it is not in a permafrost climate. There are trees, which means its not permafrost. Ok the TV show chose to show the wall in a snowy environment, so that people dont immediately realize that the wall would actually have to melt. But that doesnt change the fact that the wall in the GoT world is NOT in a permafrost zone, not even tundric. While we are at it we could of course also talk about how winters that last years dont make any sense. No normal plants would survive that. And how do you know whats a year if it wasnt for the seasons? Lets just stop it, the wall and all kind of other stuff does not make sense in a non-magical context.
sir, are you speaking of the books? in this thread?
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Is the wall supposd to be made of ice only? I assumed it was a weirdly stiff mountain covered with ice and snow..., that would make a bit more sense.
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On May 07 2013 21:58 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. No it is not in a permafrost climate. There are trees, which means its not permafrost. Ok the TV show chose to show the wall in a snowy environment, so that people dont immediately realize that the wall would actually have to melt. But that doesnt change the fact that the wall in the GoT world is NOT in a permafrost zone, not even tundric. While we are at it we could of course also talk about how winters that last years dont make any sense. No normal plants would survive that. And how do you know whats a year if it wasnt for the seasons? Lets just stop it, the wall and all kind of other stuff does not make sense in a non-magical context.
I think the best part of his post was he was talking about how cold it gets and mentioned -10 degrees celcius like it's cold... It was -10 degrees in April here in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia let alone in Northern Siberia : D
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On May 07 2013 22:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Is the wall supposd to be made of ice only? I assumed it was a weirdly stiff mountain covered with ice and snow..., that would make a bit more sense.
It appears to be solid ice, but its opaque and no ones ever seen the middle.
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On May 07 2013 22:04 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Is the wall supposd to be made of ice only? I assumed it was a weirdly stiff mountain covered with ice and snow..., that would make a bit more sense. It appears to be solid ice, but its opaque and no ones ever seen the middle.
Yeah... Well that makes no sense, but who cares about sense in fantasy 
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On May 07 2013 21:57 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:53 Snotling wrote:On May 07 2013 21:28 OneRedBeard wrote:On May 07 2013 20:39 Redox wrote:On May 07 2013 20:35 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 20:19 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On May 07 2013 19:44 Hitch-22 wrote:On May 07 2013 19:40 -Archangel- wrote:
Haha, some of the comments about passing the wall are borderline idiotic. So you people would go to north or south pole and melt that ice as well with cave man built fire?! Are you people kidding?
At best they can use torches (as they are mobile) and those would probably melt the ice slower then new one would form around them.
Also the people suggesting them digging through it. Wall is very wide by what we seen, I don't think digging through it is such a simple matter, even for giants. And they got no quality steel digging tools. Unless you want them to dig with their fingers...
And digging underground tunnels through ice frozen ground with no modern tools?! Good luck with that. .. So you're saying ... people couldn't light mighty fires back then? If the wall wasn't magical (which it is) and just a tall ice wall you'd need about 400 basic fires along about 12 feet apart to melt that wall down.. Not use a'torch' lol. "borderline idiotic I say!!!!" You don't need much in removing structural stability to have a 700ft ice wall fall, just some shifting on the base weight will topple it since it's not strung together with proper structural integrity. lighting a mighty fire would cause a lot of attention and would take a while given how big the wall is. Chances are high that the nights watch finds out and is going to defend there. Plus the wall serves a purpose. If you destroy the wall, then what stops the white walkers? If you have the entire army of Mance standing outside the fucking wall against 1000 nights watchmen do you think they're going to jump outside and 'defend the fire'... They'd be lucky if they could even fire down arrows on them from 700ft let alone engage lol. It'd be the quickest wall collapse known to man, zero structural stability (note what happened as they climbed) and the fact its an ice wall... lol you have 10000 men, light 1000 (1 for every 10 men, or even 100) fires at the base, there goes the wall... This is fucking ice, take some ice outside for a second and see how fast it melts in daylight temperature let alone fire, it doesn't have to be very hot. Yah and you could dig through it etc. But as already said, if it wasnt for magic the wall would not stand in the first place and melt on its own like our glaciers. Lets just say its magic and therefore impenetrable. Much global warming going on in Westeros? The wall stands in an arctic or at least tundric permafrost climate zone. Imagine northern siberia. Constantly below -10 degrees celsius, even in the summer. The wall would not melt on its own, even if it were not built by magic in the first place. Like a glacier, it will absorb falling snow and humidity over the millenia. It is, in a way, self-repairing, as the glaciers were on Earth for millenia. Lighting a fire next to a glacier will not do anything to it besides dousing the fire after a while. Also the water freezes back up as soon as it leaves the radius of warmth from the fire. Which is, seeing the extreme temperatures that would surround a cubic mile of ice, quite limited. Granted, glaciers are not shaped that way. Maybe you could melt a cave through it, given enough fuel and a system to drain the melting water. Probably that is how the tunnels at the watch fortresses were made. But it would take quite a bit longer than just climbing up. if you start to bring physics into this...the wall would not stand at all. the ice on the bottom would be melted under the weight of the ice above, or at least pushed to the side. there is a reason glaciers migrates, and dont just stay were the are. It's ok, this guy obvs never took much in the way of geotherms or physics in his life... He just "imagines" that's how it works, it's cold so giant walls of ice can exist by themselves loloololol. Without 'magic' this is the most structurally instable thing ever to exist, it would tumble at the slightest breeze or temp change let alone simply caving in on itself.
Sure - But it would not melt. I was not talking about structural integrity, just about the possibilities of melting an ice cube 2 cubic kilometres big that _is already there_. Thanks for the productive tone though, much appreciated.
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EPT
