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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On April 25 2013 01:08 PerryHooter wrote:
Something I just thought of; Osha, the wildling that helps Bran, she seems awfully loyal don't you think? Almost like she's too good to be true?
Maybe I'm just gotten used to the fact that the "civilized people" (i.e. non-wildlings) all have different hidden agendas, and you'd expect her to have one aswell. Maybe betrayal is alien to the wildlings, as they're more natural and "down to earth" than the power hungry "southerners" and for that reason she would never betray Bran and Rickon whom she's grown fond of.
But still, they pretty much just killed the people she was with in season 1 and made her a slave/prisoner/servant, and now she's been given a whole lot of responsibility. What do you think?
I'd say she is trustworthy. Her brother and Brann have a deep connection and she seems completely loyal to her brother.
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On April 25 2013 01:15 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:08 PerryHooter wrote:
Something I just thought of; Osha, the wildling that helps Bran, she seems awfully loyal don't you think? Almost like she's too good to be true?
Maybe I'm just gotten used to the fact that the "civilized people" (i.e. non-wildlings) all have different hidden agendas, and you'd expect her to have one aswell. Maybe betrayal is alien to the wildlings, as they're more natural and "down to earth" than the power hungry "southerners" and for that reason she would never betray Bran and Rickon whom she's grown fond of.
But still, they pretty much just killed the people she was with in season 1 and made her a slave/prisoner/servant, and now she's been given a whole lot of responsibility. What do you think? I'd say she is trustworthy. Her brother and Brann have a deep connection and she seems completely loyal to her brother.
You're thinking of Meera Reed, not Osha. They are quite similar though, considering they're both protecting a "helpless" young boy with warging abilities.
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On April 25 2013 01:08 PerryHooter wrote:
Something I just thought of; Osha, the wildling that helps Bran, she seems awfully loyal don't you think? Almost like she's too good to be true?
Maybe I'm just gotten used to the fact that the "civilized people" (i.e. non-wildlings) all have different hidden agendas, and you'd expect her to have one aswell. Maybe betrayal is alien to the wildlings, as they're more natural and "down to earth" than the power hungry "southerners" and for that reason she would never betray Bran and Rickon whom she's grown fond of.
But still, they pretty much just killed the people she was with in season 1 and made her a slave/prisoner/servant, and now she's been given a whole lot of responsibility. What do you think?
That's a good point, but she wouldn't gain anything from killing Bran. She could just have abandoned him...and I guess after she was caught, she just excepted that that would be her life. So, I guess after Winterfell was sacked and they escaped, she didn't really have any ambitions or anywhere to go. And if what you said about wildling culture is correct, then I supposed, in addition to betrayal, abandoning a cripple, a kid, and Hodor would be kind of fucked up.
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Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_;
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I think overall in influence, like in many fantasy universes, you are getting an author's (usually British) cultural impression of the real world. A few examples from very popular works:
GoT: Historical British view of history. First Men=Celts, Andals=Saxons, Targaryens=Normans. Targaryens are from Europe, tracing a cultural lineage back to the great fallen empire of Rome/Valyria. Britain is extra big, but generally recognizable with Dorne/Cornwall, King's Landing/London, Winterfell/York, Casterly Rock/Lancaster, Wall/Wall, Scots, Wildlings, and so on, generally evoking the War of the Roses.
Essos is undersized for Europe/Asia, but go to school in England for a bit and try and tell me it's not about the right size for its role. Valyria is even in the right place for Italy. Dothraki are obviously Mongols. Syrio/Jaqen evoke Venice and its contemporaries in swordsmanship/spycraft in a "Free City." Slaver's Bay is a typical Imperialist view of Africa/Middle East. (Remember that the initial reason for the onslaught of European invaders into Africa was aimed at eradicating slavery.)
LotR: British view of WWII/I/The Crusades. Happy homes of a "nation of shopkeepers" must go and help its warlike but beleaguered friends fighting a losing battle against the forces of evil from the east and south. In the process, they must enlist the aid of a nation that was once a colony, which is unwilling to abandon its isolationist viewpoint.
Harry Potter: Contemporary British view that the world is divided into basically three categories: Plucky Brits, Sexy but Vapid French Girls, and Manly but Brutish Central/Eastern European Men.
Narnia: Again, historical British GoT-esque North is wild, South is civilized but foreign and hostile with a different religion, East is fascinating but unexplored, and not much is out to the West.
Star Trek: The heroic Federation of Earth/America, the plucky upstarts and Vulcan/England, their level-headed and tradition-minded allies, take on the world. Opposing them are the Romulan/Chinese and Klingon/Russian empires. The Romulan/Chinese are bad, but they have a breakaway state of good guys. The Klingon/Russians are really bad until 1990, then become our lovably barbaric quasi-allies, until the mid-late 00s, when they become evil again.
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On April 25 2013 02:52 algue wrote:
Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_;
to quote jaime lannister from season 1: "But even if the boy lives he would be a cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death anyday."
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Why isn't Daenerys' last name Targaryen? She is from one of the great houses so I assume you always take the name
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On April 25 2013 02:54 Yoav wrote:
Star Trek: The heroic Federation of Earth/America, the plucky upstarts and Vulcan/England, their level-headed and tradition-minded allies, take on the world. Opposing them are the Romulan/Chinese and Klingon/Russian empires. The Romulan/Chinese are bad, but they have a breakaway state of good guys. The Klingon/Russians are really bad until 1990, then become our lovably barbaric quasi-allies, until the mid-late 00s, when they become evil again.
I was with you until this one. I think with Star Trek it's harder to pin down exactly what the parallels are beyond the Ferengi (caricatures of negative stereotype of jews). The archetypes are broader in Star Trek methinks.
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On April 25 2013 03:16 bonedOUT wrote:
Why isn't Daenerys' last name Targaryen? She is from one of the great houses so I assume you always take the name
It is Targaryen. Danaerys Stormborn is her "nickname" because she was born while a storm was raging.
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On April 25 2013 01:08 PerryHooter wrote:
Something I just thought of; Osha, the wildling that helps Bran, she seems awfully loyal don't you think? Almost like she's too good to be true?
Maybe I'm just gotten used to the fact that the "civilized people" (i.e. non-wildlings) all have different hidden agendas, and you'd expect her to have one aswell. Maybe betrayal is alien to the wildlings, as they're more natural and "down to earth" than the power hungry "southerners" and for that reason she would never betray Bran and Rickon whom she's grown fond of.
But still, they pretty much just killed the people she was with in season 1 and made her a slave/prisoner/servant, and now she's been given a whole lot of responsibility. What do you think?
I think people can change. Particularly when said people (probably) grow fond of the young charges in their care. Responsibility can be as rewarding to those responsible as it is to the ones they watch out for.
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On April 25 2013 03:41 Xivsa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:08 PerryHooter wrote:
Something I just thought of; Osha, the wildling that helps Bran, she seems awfully loyal don't you think? Almost like she's too good to be true?
Maybe I'm just gotten used to the fact that the "civilized people" (i.e. non-wildlings) all have different hidden agendas, and you'd expect her to have one aswell. Maybe betrayal is alien to the wildlings, as they're more natural and "down to earth" than the power hungry "southerners" and for that reason she would never betray Bran and Rickon whom she's grown fond of.
But still, they pretty much just killed the people she was with in season 1 and made her a slave/prisoner/servant, and now she's been given a whole lot of responsibility. What do you think? I think people can change. Particularly when said people (probably) grow fond of the young charges in their care. Responsibility can be as rewarding to those responsible as it is to the ones they watch out for.
Her conversation with Maester Luwin made me believe she was legit. "I've got no great love for my own kind," she said when he told her she would have to protect Bran from her own kind. And it has been said before, she seems to have a strong bond with Bran, I really don't feel like there has been anything in her conduct that warrents suspicion.
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On April 25 2013 02:57 Gorg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:52 algue wrote:
Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_; to quote jaime lannister from season 1: "But even if the boy lives he would be a cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death anyday."
I remember! That's why reading this thread is awesome, no spoilers and reading these things make me think/remember subsequent details.
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On April 25 2013 04:45 son1dow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:57 Gorg wrote:On April 25 2013 02:52 algue wrote:
Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_; to quote jaime lannister from season 1: "But even if the boy lives he would be a cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death anyday." I remember! That's why reading this thread is awesome, no spoilers and reading these things make me think/remember subsequent details.
how do people remember those lines from season 1? so long ago
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United Kingdom10014 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:04 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 04:45 son1dow wrote:On April 25 2013 02:57 Gorg wrote:On April 25 2013 02:52 algue wrote:
Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_; to quote jaime lannister from season 1: "But even if the boy lives he would be a cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death anyday." I remember! That's why reading this thread is awesome, no spoilers and reading these things make me think/remember subsequent details. how do people remember those lines from season 1? so long ago
Well i am about to rewatch season 1, i guess other people have that too...
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On April 25 2013 05:04 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 04:45 son1dow wrote:On April 25 2013 02:57 Gorg wrote:On April 25 2013 02:52 algue wrote:
Cutting a man's hand is not very gentle ;_; to quote jaime lannister from season 1: "But even if the boy lives he would be a cripple, a grotesque. Give me a good, clean death anyday." I remember! That's why reading this thread is awesome, no spoilers and reading these things make me think/remember subsequent details. how do people remember those lines from season 1? so long ago
Having watched each episode 3-4 times helps (so does reading) 
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On April 25 2013 02:54 Yoav wrote:
I think overall in influence, like in many fantasy universes, you are getting an author's (usually British) cultural impression of the real world. A few examples from very popular works:
GoT: Historical British view of history. First Men=Celts, Andals=Saxons, Targaryens=Normans. Targaryens are from Europe, tracing a cultural lineage back to the great fallen empire of Rome/Valyria. Britain is extra big, but generally recognizable with Dorne/Cornwall, King's Landing/London, Winterfell/York, Casterly Rock/Lancaster, Wall/Wall, Scots, Wildlings, and so on, generally evoking the War of the Roses.
Essos is undersized for Europe/Asia, but go to school in England for a bit and try and tell me it's not about the right size for its role. Valyria is even in the right place for Italy. Dothraki are obviously Mongols. Syrio/Jaqen evoke Venice and its contemporaries in swordsmanship/spycraft in a "Free City." Slaver's Bay is a typical Imperialist view of Africa/Middle East. (Remember that the initial reason for the onslaught of European invaders into Africa was aimed at eradicating slavery.)
LotR: British view of WWII/I/The Crusades. Happy homes of a "nation of shopkeepers" must go and help its warlike but beleaguered friends fighting a losing battle against the forces of evil from the east and south. In the process, they must enlist the aid of a nation that was once a colony, which is unwilling to abandon its isolationist viewpoint.
Harry Potter: Contemporary British view that the world is divided into basically three categories: Plucky Brits, Sexy but Vapid French Girls, and Manly but Brutish Central/Eastern European Men.
Narnia: Again, historical British GoT-esque North is wild, South is civilized but foreign and hostile with a different religion, East is fascinating but unexplored, and not much is out to the West.
Star Trek: The heroic Federation of Earth/America, the plucky upstarts and Vulcan/England, their level-headed and tradition-minded allies, take on the world. Opposing them are the Romulan/Chinese and Klingon/Russian empires. The Romulan/Chinese are bad, but they have a breakaway state of good guys. The Klingon/Russians are really bad until 1990, then become our lovably barbaric quasi-allies, until the mid-late 00s, when they become evil again.
some of them are really-really hard forced fits. Both Tolkien and GRRM said that their works are not allegories in any shape or form. Ofc, they are influenced, but trying to make x = y formulas is a bad idea. War of the Roses are one of the main influences (that absolutely does NOT mean the 2 houses are the same as Stark and Lannister, very few actual similarities), and yes, it has been confirmed that the Wall was inspired by Hadrian's Wall, but from there you make the immediate jump Scotts = Wildlings. They have pretty much nothing in common, aside from the fact they lived north of a certain wall. Dorne = Cornwall, just [b]NO[/b], Dorne wasnt introduced yet in the series, just referenced, so let's not argue about it, but seriously, aside from being to the south and having coast they have nothing in common.
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My predictions for Episode 5:
- Hound will kill other guy but Brotherhood will find some sort of excuse to kill the Hound as well.
- Shit will hit the fan for Rob next episode.
- Jaime is redeeming himself (i.e. becoming more humble) but at the same time making Brienne more loyal to him, her personal savior, than Robb or Catelyn
- Maybe not next episode but somewhere this season, Daenerys will be taken down a notch. I refuse to believe that she'll just accrue power until she makes it across the Narrow Sea
- Joffrey will be even more pussy whipped, and eventually (not in Episode 5) Margaery won't even have to pretend to be nice anymore, maybe set the Tyrells up to start taking King's Landing over from the Lannisters
- Littlefinger will find out about Sansa's plan to exile herself to Highgarden and throw a wrench in that plan
Awesome height chart of some major characters
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not gonna read predictions anymore. i read someone predicted that the dragon chick was gonna free the slaves and take the city -- and that pretty much ruined the episode for me cuz he was 100% correct. damnit.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:44 MadProbe wrote:
not gonna read predictions anymore. i read someone predicted that the dragon chick was gonna free the slaves and take the city -- and that pretty much ruined the episode for me cuz he was 100% correct. damnit.
That seems like an honest prediction though, not a spoiler. It was foreseeable.
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On April 25 2013 05:44 MadProbe wrote:
not gonna read predictions anymore. i read someone predicted that the dragon chick was gonna free the slaves and take the city -- and that pretty much ruined the episode for me cuz he was 100% correct. damnit.
as someone who has not read any book: you could see that a mile away.
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EPT
