[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 562

On June 03 2012 21:33 C-ZG wrote:
There something I don't quite get on the last few episodes.
What is this brotherhood thing Lord Tywin is talking about ?
Why is he hanging men from his own army ? He says that someone tried to kill him, when was that ? When Ser Amory Loch was killed by Jaqen H'ghar ?

On June 03 2012 21:36 Geo.Rion wrote:


Spoilers spoilers spoilers

on the whole Dothraki invasion, it would have never worked:
1. The dothraki never sailed, even if Drogo decided they will now, for sure lots would try joining other khalasars etc.
2. Even if they would decide to go, it's not only 40k warriors, they wouldnt leave the rest of the horde behind to die, so we're talking about 100k horde AND their horses, which would require thousands of ships to transport. Even if they get a ludicrous ammount of gold, they can't hire thousands of ships since there aren't that many, and doubtful that any captian would cherish the idea of having savages and horses on their ships.
3. Even if they find a willing fleet, it would need to take several turns, and lots of dothraki would get sick and die because the sea-voyage is so out-of-world for them, and many ships could sink (navigation just wasnt good enough back in that age to assure a close to 100% survivability of ships)
4. Even if they somehow get most of the warriors through, the Westerosi outnumber them 5-1, if they rally all the troops together, to be sure dothraki are superior fighters but Westeros could muster out probably 20k+ knights, that could charge through the dothrakies easily. As far as we ve seen they didnt use many archers but arachs and whips and other melee weapons. The Mongols, Huns etc dominated because of horse-archers, not only because they were better horsemen and warriors.

On June 03 2012 22:35 C-ZG wrote:
So, because someone killed Ser Amory Lorch, Lord Tywin thinks someone want to kill him ? ..

On June 03 2012 13:40 Steveling wrote:
Argh, that's so wrong I cringed upon reading it.
*also it's called phalanx. xP

Anyway this argument is pretty pointless since the focus in that scenario would be the dragons and in how many seconds they would obliterate everything and not some horses and whatnot.

On June 03 2012 18:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
The sheer logistics of the invasion are enough to make anyone doubt any chance of Doth'raki success.

As far as I know, the Doth'raki are incapable of besieging a large castle or city. They would be forced to raid and pillage the countryside and eventually their manpower would dwindle because their cultural differences would make it nearly impossible to gain any new recruits, reinforcements, or mercenary support once they were in Westeros.

On June 03 2012 18:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
is is just assuming a Westerosi army wouldn't be able to defeat them in battle in the first place. Even if the Westerosi army couldn't directly engage the invading force immediately, all Robert would have to do is wait and bide time for the attrition to kick in as mentioned above.

Also, I'm not sure how large Drogo's khalisar was in Season 1, but I'm almost certain the Reach (Tyrells) alone could raise an army of the same size or larger (I think they said they fielded one hundred thousand soldiers somewhere in season 2). The Dothraki wouldn't have to just beat one Westerosi army, but several. .

On June 03 2012 21:36 Geo.Rion wrote:
<- non spoiler, since it's in the friggin tv series, just very briefly mentioned, and most likely people forgot about it /didnt notice. (Ned sent them after he recovered from his leg-injury in s1, in s2 the Mountain and Tywin mention them, and the Tickler -blond who's killed on Arya's command- interrogates prisoners about them )

On June 03 2012 22:57 Kukaracha wrote:



If Robert waits, he loses the realm!
And most importantly, the Dothraki don't have to fight. They can go on a rampage and can avoid unfavorable fights for as long as they need.

Just look at this map and imagine that the fleet sails from the south-west of Essos to Sunspear. What can the westerosi do? They could never unite their forces in time.



In short, the Dothraki are a mortal threat because :

• They have the means to buy a fleet and a mercenary army if necessary
  
• Their army is composed of 40K horsemen who are elite fighters and archers. No westerosi army can match their quality
  
• Due to their extreme mobility, they're never forced to fight and can easily outmanoeuver the enemy
  
• They would win the war of attrition, pillaging the ressources of the kingdoms while the lords hide in their castles (as Robert himself said)
  

The only strong argument in favour of the Westerosi is that we're not sure the Dothraki can really cross the sea if they wanted to. But they do, numbers are irrelevant because, again, the Dothraki can not be forced to fight and also because you simply can't feed 100K soldiers when the country is on fire. Such a huge army is already a problem in itself.

On June 03 2012 22:57 Kukaracha wrote:


Not really, it had no mobility at all. Its flanks needed a competent and numerous cavalry and were otherwise very exposed. After Alexander's death, generals started to rely in brute force and the sarissa became longer and longer until it finally reached 7 meters of lenght (!). Look at the disposition of the troops during the battle of Gaugamela : both flanks are protected by cavalry while Alexander's escort rushes to the heated spots.
Even when it was shorter, the sarissa had to be split into two parts to be carried around, and its manoeuvrability was pretty much nonesxistant. The initial charge was the only option. This is why the Roman legions butchered the Macedonian phalanx : they could move and easily flank their immobile opponents who had no choice other than dropping their gigantic spear and fight with a dagger. Even in headfront charges, while the initial impact was a massacre among Roman ranks, there wasn't much the Macedonians could do once contact was established, moment where the gladius shines.

(Source : Victor Davis Hanson's Wars of the Ancient Greeks)
Unless you have serious sources to back up your claims, please stop with this nonsense.


Back to the main topic :



Actually, the Dothraki being nomads, they already have the necessary logistics necessary to an invasion. The only problem is the Narrow Sea, which is... narrow. With the money they gather from simply showing up at random cities, they would have little trouble buying a mercenary fleet from Quarth or Penthos.

The second point was raised by Renly, to which Robert answered that the king would have no authority if he stayed in his castle while is subjects are being massacred outside of the walls. Not only that, but cities can only last so long before starving out, while the Khalasar is free to take what they need and burn the surroundings so that when they do leave, there is nothing left of that region. Mercenaries aren't also that rare to come by, and could very well be recruited in Essos to begin with.



If Robert waits, he loses the realm!
And most importantly, the Dothraki don't have to fight. They can go on a rampage and can avoid unfavorable fights for as long as they need.

Just look at this map and imagine that the fleet sails from the south-west of Essos to Sunspear. What can the westerosi do? They could never unite their forces in time.



In short, the Dothraki are a mortal threat because :

• They have the means to buy a fleet and a mercenary army if necessary
  
• Their army is composed of 40K horsemen who are elite fighters and archers. No westerosi army can match their quality
  
• Due to their extreme mobility, they're never forced to fight and can easily outmanoeuver the enemy
  
• They would win the war of attrition, pillaging the ressources of the kingdoms while the lords hide in their castles (as Robert himself said)
  

The only strong argument in favour of the Westerosi is that we're not sure the Dothraki can really cross the sea if they wanted to. But they do, numbers are irrelevant because, again, the Dothraki can not be forced to fight and also because you simply can't feed 100K soldiers when the country is on fire. Such a huge army is already a problem in itself.

On June 03 2012 21:19 GhostOwl wrote:


If you look back at history, when Mongols conquered European armies, the European armies had heavily armored gear while the Mongols wore light armor. But it allowed them to out-manuveur and used their arrows to rain down on European armies. There's more info about it on the net, look it up. I'm just saying that better armored soldiers don't mean better combat.

On June 04 2012 00:33 bahunto28 wrote:


so what you are saying is spend that first 100 gas on speed instead of armour upgrade?

Overland travel between the Dorne peninsula and the rest of Westeros is severely restricted due to the Red Mountains, a large mountain chain along Dorne's western borders, which possess only a few passes such as the Boneway and the Prince's Pass.

On June 04 2012 03:13 Rho_ wrote:
Dothraki could mess Westeros up, but Dorne is about the worst place for them to go.



They would be bottling themselves up in Dorne. If they leave their ships, the ships would be destroyed, and they'd be stuck and ineffective.

On June 04 2012 03:09 Flik wrote:
Im also going to point out that even though they're based on the Mongolians they're still fucking Doth'raki. Do you think if Drogo seen Roberts army march out to meet them he would tuck tail and run and pew pew with arrows? Fuck no. He would go balls to the wall and full on attack.

Just curious, whats the range of an english longbow compared to an archer on horseback?