EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1829
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28689 Posts
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RenSC2
United States1063 Posts
On December 10 2020 06:41 Liquid`Drone wrote: Maybe our best bet is GRRM dying so Sanderson can finish up things Preferably have GRRM hand the series over to Sanderson or someone else who can do it justice and stay around as an advisor/editor. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9216 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18450 Posts
On December 10 2020 06:41 Liquid`Drone wrote: Maybe our best bet is GRRM dying so Sanderson can finish up things Sanderson is my all time great at the moment | ||
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rope123
27 Posts
On December 10 2020 06:41 Liquid`Drone wrote: Maybe our best bet is GRRM dying so Sanderson can finish up things Plz no. Sanderson is fine for writing pulpy guilty pleasures at best. If asoiaf remains unfinished so be it, grrm still writes genre fiction but sanderson isnt even in the same ballpark as far as the quality of his writing is concerned. Sanderson's greatest strength is the ability to churn out a product according to a set timetable. All his books basically work the same... If i want to read a sanderson book, i'll read a sanderson book and I'll have fun with it.. but the mormon ain't ever gonna give me an asoiaf book that's gonna feel like an asoaif book And btw I'd also never want bolano, pynchon, dfw, tolkien or mann or whomever to finish the series, they'd be just as lost.. Dont take my comment as elitism but as realism | ||
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sharkie
Austria18450 Posts
On December 10 2020 22:01 rope123 wrote: Plz no. Sanderson is fine for writing pulpy guilty pleasures at best. If asoiaf remains unfinished so be it, grrm still writes genre fiction but sanderson isnt even in the same ballpark as far as the quality of his writing is concerned. Sanderson's greatest strength is the ability to churn out a product according to a set timetable. All his books basically work the same... If i want to read a sanderson book, i'll read a sanderson book and I'll have fun with it.. but the mormon ain't ever gonna give me an asoiaf book that's gonna feel like an asoaif book And btw I'd also never want bolano, pynchon, dfw, tolkien or mann or whomever to finish the series, they'd be just as lost.. Dont take my comment as elitism but as realism its elitism as sanderson's literary ability is better than martin's  | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6956 Posts
Unfortunately Sanderson doesn't have time to finish this cause I hope he finishes Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller instead lol | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28689 Posts
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kramvti
73 Posts
On December 09 2020 09:45 andrewlt wrote:... Books 4 and 5 seem similar to what happened to Robert Jordan in the middle of his series. He just got so lost in his world he didn't know how to finish his story. There were 2 things that happened during the Wheel of Time in the middle of the series. 1) legal issues. I think after book 6? someone tried to sue him for stealing the story. 2) prequels He also wanted to write 2-3 prequel stories. The readers did not want this divergence from the main story line. He stopped after one of them (about Lan and Moraine). There was no huge gap besides the one with legal issues until near his passing. Martin explicitly stated he did not care to really finish squat after the roaring success of the TV series somewhere in the middle of it (after season 4?5? I forget). Later he started saying he will finish it again. I do hold it against him to some degree. As an author, you don't just throw it away in the middle simply because you made money elsewhere. It is pretty aggregious in my opinion, and I stopped caring once he did. | ||
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rope123
27 Posts
On December 11 2020 16:05 kramvti wrote: Martin explicitly stated he did not care to really finish squat after the roaring success of the TV series somewhere in the middle of it (after season 4?5? I forget). Later he started saying he will finish it again. I do hold it against him to some degree. As an author, you don't just throw it away in the middle simply because you made money elsewhere. It is pretty aggregious in my opinion, and I stopped caring once he did. This is a complete fabrication. Martin never said such a thing. Plz don't make stuff up. He always intended to finish the series. Sure, it can be frustrating to wait so long, but it's also a work of art and no one has a right to demand it be delivered to him. Also, book 4 and 5 probably have some of the best writing of the entire series, they mostly suffer from editorial issues and (book 5 especially) a lack of payoff and resolution. //guys, I get it Sanderson is imaginative and creates fun worlds...his writing is so workmanlike though and his dialogue so wooden. If I read a couple hundred pages of a stormlight book I actually feel tired, because the prose is so lacking in wit and style | ||
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kramvti
73 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18450 Posts
On December 11 2020 20:06 rope123 wrote: This is a complete fabrication. Martin never said such a thing. Plz don't make stuff up. He always intended to finish the series. Sure, it can be frustrating to wait so long, but it's also a work of art and no one has a right to demand it be delivered to him. Also, book 4 and 5 probably have some of the best writing of the entire series, they mostly suffer from editorial issues and (book 5 especially) a lack of payoff and resolution. //guys, I get it Sanderson is imaginative and creates fun worlds...his writing is so workmanlike though and his dialogue so wooden. If I read a couple hundred pages of a stormlight book I actually feel tired, because the prose is so lacking in wit and style so martin is a perfect master and wrote perfect pieces of art with ASOIAF, the only flaws in his books are done by others and sanderson writes boring pages... yeah no | ||
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rope123
27 Posts
On December 12 2020 04:47 sharkie wrote: so martin is a perfect master and wrote perfect pieces of art with ASOIAF, the only flaws in his books are done by others and sanderson writes boring pages... yeah no ? ?? Martin is obviously responsible for the editorial decisions made regarding the last two books..and his writing obviously has flaws. and yes he is an artist, so you dont have any right to demand that he produces his art just because you want to consume.. also ye, if you read more than 2 novels and the odd manga a year, you should realize that sanderson might be an interesting writer, but also one with very obvious limitations | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6956 Posts
On December 12 2020 09:57 rope123 wrote: ? ?? Martin is obviously responsible for the editorial decisions made regarding the last two books..and his writing obviously has flaws. and yes he is an artist, so you dont have any right to demand that he produces his art just because you want to consume.. also ye, if you read more than 2 novels and the odd manga a year, you should realize that sanderson might be an interesting writer, but also one with very obvious limitations Dude, there are opinions and there are facts. Yours is a opinion  You say Sandersons dialogues are wooden, I say some of Martins dialogues are cringe and cheesy af. Abercrombie has superior dialogues than both IMO, but lacks a bit imagination in world building. Pratchett is supposed to be even better but I haven't read much of him so I can't say. Now that I think about it, I really should use these times to rad up on some Pratchett | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On December 10 2020 22:18 sharkie wrote: its elitism as sanderson's literary ability is better than martin's Maybe so, depends on how you define that. In the end completely irrelavant though, as their styles are so completely different that it is just silly to suggest one should finish the work of the other. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 08 2020 18:19 Manit0u wrote: Technically as a professional author you should be able to pump out a book once a year. I guess he got so much money from the TV show and earlier books that he's set for life and has no incentive to write any more (and I don't blame him). Uhh, quantity does not behoove quality very well. Authors who do what you suggest almost never write anything proflific because they use a formula to turn out books like that. I'm sure there are expections but every book series I can think of with 7+ in the series become pretty shallow pretty quick. I also don't understand how the end of the show can ruin the books for you. If you enjoy reading, as it allows a very different experience from watching a show, and you enjoyed the books so far you should be excited for the last book(s?) to wash the taste of S8 away. Do I expect the last book to be amazing and satisfying? Maybe, ending stuff is hard as sometimes what is emotionaly satisfying is not very interesting or a bit of a cop-out. But I can appreciate the journey so far with both show and books even with the disappointment of how the show ended. A bad ending sucks, we tend to define an experience a lot by the last thing it makes us feel, but there is still a ton of value in most of what GoT did. It's fine to criticize, but do it fairly and carefully if you expect it to have any meaning. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17342 Posts
On December 13 2020 14:00 Tictock wrote: Uhh, quantity does not behoove quality very well. Authors who do what you suggest almost never write anything proflific because they use a formula to turn out books like that. I'm sure there are expections but every book series I can think of with 7+ in the series become pretty shallow pretty quick. I also don't understand how the end of the show can ruin the books for you. If you enjoy reading, as it allows a very different experience from watching a show, and you enjoyed the books so far you should be excited for the last book(s?) to wash the taste of S8 away. Do I expect the last book to be amazing and satisfying? Maybe, ending stuff is hard as sometimes what is emotionaly satisfying is not very interesting or a bit of a cop-out. But I can appreciate the journey so far with both show and books even with the disappointment of how the show ended. A bad ending sucks, we tend to define an experience a lot by the last thing it makes us feel, but there is still a ton of value in most of what GoT did. It's fine to criticize, but do it fairly and carefully if you expect it to have any meaning. There are different kinds of authors. Some just write stuff as they go, some first plan out everything from the get go (so even before they start writing they already know how they'll finish etc.). It doesn't matter if you're writing a series or a single book. In any case if you're a professional author you should have some discipline and focus to be able to do that. I don't mean authors like Stephen King who just gets high on cocaine or amphetamine and churns out books like crazy, but taking 9 years to write a book is way too long. I know that in the meantime he wrote some ASOIF prequels but most of them are just reprints of earlier stuff. In any case I think it's not unreasonable to expect a professional author to write at least 5000 words a week (that's like 3-4h a day 5 days of a week). Considering that most GoT books are about 300k words this would take 60 weeks to write, so just over a year. In any case I think that maybe it just grew too big and too messed up. Personally I'm not a fan of series that are longer than 3-4 books because unless they are independent of each other you will run into a problem of pacing. With 3 books it's easy to split it into the beginning (first book with character intros, plot hooks etc.), middle (action, plot twists) and end (wrapping it all up), with 4 books you can stretch the middle part a bit if needed. Anything more than that seems like too much of something - if your intro takes more than 1 book it'll be slow to start and might be confusing later if you introduce too many characters etc., if the middle takes too long then then the reader gets weary, so on and so forth. I don't know, maybe I've just read too many books now and I have too high expectations or something. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
You are right that ideally a professional author can plan out a story and timeframe needed to get it on paper and edited in a organized way. That is not how most people who do creative things for a living actually are though. I know plenty of people who will spend their entire lives on a single project because it just isn't "perfect" in their eyes. In the case of the Song of Ice and Fire series I think you are probably right though. Martin likely started off with a framework for the whole series but things started to balloon out of the original scope. Having a TV adaptation take off like GoT did would also likely change how you view your own story as well as the added public pressure that sort of attention adds. So, while I think you have a point about the absurd amount of time between books, and how the writing process would ideally be structured... I think you are oversimplifying things by quite a bit by primarily looking at time to put words on a page. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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alpenrahm
Germany628 Posts
On December 12 2020 20:59 Harris1st wrote: Dude, there are opinions and there are facts. Yours is a opinion You say Sandersons dialogues are wooden, I say some of Martins dialogues are cringe and cheesy af. Abercrombie has superior dialogues than both IMO, but lacks a bit imagination in world building. Pratchett is supposed to be even better but I haven't read much of him so I can't say. Now that I think about it, I really should use these times to rad up on some Pratchett thats a great idea! start with "Guards Guards" | ||
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