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Manit0u
Poland17432 Posts
On May 15 2019 06:44 Sent. wrote: Hahahahaha I just realized there are hundreds of little girls named Daenerys or Khaleesi. Wonder what their parents are thinking now Some Arya's were in my kid's kindergarten too. In any case, naming your children after GRRM character before the books are finished is a "Kick in the Bells" if you know what I mean... | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 15 2019 03:32 Uldridge wrote: I feel like all of you are underestimating what going mad / snapping in a fit of rage actually means / does for someone. You become unhinged from your default personality and all that's left is a blind rage until theres nothing left to fuel the it. You stop to think. There's no thought process involved in it. She didn't go: "now let's all burn these fucks." You don't know what triggered her. It's fucking inane to read here that it's an unbelievable transition or that it was so sudden. For all you know stuff has been simmering in her deepest of mental states.. The scene was actually one of the more believable one's in the entire fucking show. Arguments in favor of her "sudden descent" into madness: 1) She has inherited the genes from her incestuous family 2) She has encountered so many setbacks, she's tired of being the good guy 3) She hasn't eaten for 3 days. Do you think you'd be fucking rational after that? 4) She has all the reason to distrust the people around her, except grey worm. Varys schemes against her because he believes in Jon, her hand is fucking terrified of her, the North despises her and Jon, the man she fell in love with, is quite possible to take her throne, has rejected her and also fears her. 5) She goes balls deep and destroys the Iron Fleet and the first line defenses of Kings Landing. You have a shitton of adrenaline rushing through you. Power + adrenaline: good combo for unhinging. It was a beautiful transition. Everything else was lackluster in the episode lol. I just Wish Jon/Jaime/Cercei/Tyrion had some better things to do than these banal things. By the way, second best scene, or at least part of it, was Jaime desperately searching for a way out, despite fully knowing there wasn't any. These were honest moments. Everything else was just forced. The madness implied with her father and that ran in her family was paranoia and possibly schizophrenia, neither of which have a sudden onset. In fact, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a "madness" fitting this description that would present in such a way without any hints of development beforehand. The show has done literally nothing to show her developing any kind of mental illness-related madness. It has shown her to be ruthless to those that are her enemies, wrong her, or commit acts that she sees as unjust. A sudden development of madness makes absolutely no sense and is just terrible writing, no matter how hard people try to justify it. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
The iron throne is meaningless now. There is no Infrastructure to support a single king for seven kingdoms. After all these years and hours of television, the result is that no one wins and everyone goes home unhappy. Dany did more to ruin her families legacy then the entirety of her ancestors. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26035 Posts
On May 15 2019 07:20 Stratos_speAr wrote: The madness implied with her father and that ran in her family was paranoia and possibly schizophrenia, neither of which have a sudden onset. In fact, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a "madness" fitting this description that would present in such a way without any hints of development beforehand. The show has done literally nothing to show her developing any kind of mental illness-related madness. It has shown her to be ruthless to those that are her enemies, wrong her, or commit acts that she sees as unjust. A sudden development of madness makes absolutely no sense and is just terrible writing, no matter how hard people try to justify it. I mean assuming it’s a mental illness as would exist in our world, yeah there would be a million gradual tells generally. I mean we don’t have grayscale for example, but its vague pathology is explained. Her father didn’t go lunatic overnight either that much is laid out a lot too, more in the books. It’s a completely unearned development, it’s just terrible. You simply cannot have Dany actively immolating fleeing civilians without way more development as to how she got there. People got extremely annoyed when Batman broke his no-deliberately kill rule, when he was surrounded by crazy stress and whatnot, Dany isn’t under actual danger herself, has some breathing room to observe things from afar and swoops in to legitimately genocide a city. As presented it’s absolutely terrible writing, it just is. The mitigation I’ll give is that I do think you can’t actually follow Martin’s cliff notes in 6 episodes and not have some terrible writing | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 14 2019 09:43 fishjie wrote: i still stand by my statement that episode 5 was close to as good as it was going to be given all the constraints. what i mean is - it was obvious to me (and ya'll can search my predictions) that in this episode, cersei was going to lose, hound was going to fight mountain, arya or jaime was going to kill cersei (i was wrong on this prediction) and that dany was going to go mad. they had to do it in one episode, so that the final episode could be about dany the final boss villain. as a quick aside, my predictions are dany will execute tyrion for freeing jaime, will kill *try* to kill jon snow, arya will assassinate dany, and then everyone decides fuck monarchy we want democracy. so if cersei needs to lose and dany needs to go mad in just one episode, what episode 5 delivered was as good as it was going to get. i knew they were going to pull some bs where the previously OP euron ships with cloaking and photon torpedos would get nerfed and destroyed by drogon. so i let it slide. it had already been foreshadowed varys was going to die in westeros by red woman, and the poorly written treason scheming dialogue of previous episode made it very obvious. so i knew they were going to make varys incompetent schemer and kill him off just like they nerfed littlefinger, so i let it slide. qyburn at this point was already a 1D character who is dedicated solely to serving cersei instead of being intelligent and self preserving and having some self agency, so again, let it slide. and dany had to become the final villain this episode, so i knew it was going to be pretty contrived, but i got an entertaining spectacle as she rode around and roasted everyone to death. and the show had been hinting since the previous season that she was gonna turn mad. really the only thing i would've changed this episode is i honestly thought jaime was coming to KILL cersei, not save cersei. wtf. they shit all over his arc. also instead of wasting all the time showing arya running around the city (we got the point), maybe spend that time on more arya + hound goodness. i liked the scene where hound talks sense into arya. i liked the cleganebowl. so yeah with expectations lowered by the hole the writers dug themselves into, i had a pretty good idea of what was gonna happen in this episode, and they did a good rendition of what i was expecting, minus shitting over jaime. yes, this, however....: of course, if there was any way that jamie could stop cersei and save her too, he would have been trying to do it. however, up until he witnessed the dragons defeat her, he only knew that cersei was going to win the battle (the last he heard was she'd defeated a dragon and was probably going to win, from sansa's mouth). we were all expecting him to be trying to kill cersei, so when i heard 'We captured your brother trying to get through the lines" this didn't make sense. UNLESS we assume that on the long (?) journey from the north to kings landing Jamie had time to think that he was still going there with every intention to save Cersei from herself, which is, of course, ultimately believable the 3 things i still dislike personally: 1) dragonqueen going mad AFTER defeating the army. i liked very much how she realised john was just a cuck and didn't really love her, that was a nice touch. i liked the tension of trying to reach the bells to sound them, and every scene that showed the dragon looking towards cersei in her tower, us expecting it to fly there every time. however i didn't get torching civilians for 30 mins straight after the bells sounded. (i was pissed that tyrion told john to surrender when the bells sounded but john didn't actually notify his men at that point). it just didn't make sense for the bells to sound, other than to show that john had no control over his men (which he should have i think??). idk, i just don't feel the 'madness' from dragongirl and greyworm. put it this way: if danaris went mad, then as much so did greyworm. people in this thread saying danaris always had a mad streak, i disagree with. her brother was an evil creepy dick and she had a dark childhood, of course she had some wicked glee about his death, and any given king is going to execute a lord who refuses to kneel to them to their face when given the choice of death. and probably a lot of NORMAL people would execute slavers, given the circumstances she was in (it was a leading part of the culture that needed to be eradicated with a massive risk of returning as she left the city) 2) getting a wimpy extra civilian woman with a pretty 9 yr old daughter to play as tear bait for literally 10 minutes, goddamn that was cringe, i mean COME THE FUCK ON , this is probably the lowest 3) euron teleporting to jamie. jamie is my favorite character. after 8 years of watching jamie they teleport euron to him to kill him. i rolled my eyes and said 'oh come on' when euron walks up out of the water. if i was sitting with my friends watching it i would have gone for the remote control, switched it off and refused to let them watch anymore. i am completely dead inside. (btw we know jamie and cersei died for sure coz buttfucking euron shouting 'i got you, though!' after them, meaning jamie was dead nomatter what) | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 15 2019 07:46 Sermokala wrote: Even if I could forgive that her decent into madness and the fact that the bells triggered it It still makes for a really shitty endgame that could just as easily could have been ajusted to fit into the fact that there is one episode left. The iron throne is meaningless now. There is no Infrastructure to support a single king for seven kingdoms. After all these years and hours of television, the result is that no one wins and everyone goes home unhappy. Dany did more to ruin her families legacy then the entirety of her ancestors. Speaking of infrastructure, at least the show did something I was interested in but genuinely did not expect... it covered how the 7 Kingdoms could possibly keep everyone fed through the winter. ----- For the above post, it is pretty notable that I think this may be the first time the show has framed a background character across an episode for a narrative purpose. Like we follow the woman and child in a few shots, even when main characters aren't really around, but they're only there to be a redshirt. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 15 2019 05:52 FreakyDroid wrote: ![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/2x52jowo87y21.jpg) Though, it would be smarter to wait until Monday, pretty sure you can grab 3-4 t-shirts for that price. lol no1s gonna buy a danny shirt now fk her lol id buy a jamie shirt | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 15 2019 10:05 Logo wrote: Speaking of infrastructure, at least the show did something I was interested in but genuinely did not expect... it covered how the 7 Kingdoms could possibly keep everyone fed through the winter. ----- For the above post, it is pretty notable that I think this may be the first time the show has framed a background character across an episode for a narrative purpose. Like we follow the woman and child in a few shots, even when main characters aren't really around, but they're only there to be a redshirt. definitely a trick to get in dvd sales from mothers & girlfriends etc who otherwise wouldnt be able to follow the show link from previous poster that i thought cud do with a repost: | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
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FreakyDroid
Macedonia2616 Posts
https://jasonsjackson.com/blog/2019/05/14/got-finale-the-scouring-of-kings-landing-and-the-children-of-the-forest-heavy-spoilers/ | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4957 Posts
On May 15 2019 07:20 Stratos_speAr wrote: The madness implied with her father and that ran in her family was paranoia and possibly schizophrenia, neither of which have a sudden onset. In fact, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a "madness" fitting this description that would present in such a way without any hints of development beforehand. The show has done literally nothing to show her developing any kind of mental illness-related madness. It has shown her to be ruthless to those that are her enemies, wrong her, or commit acts that she sees as unjust. A sudden development of madness makes absolutely no sense and is just terrible writing, no matter how hard people try to justify it. A psychotic episode can most definitely just "happen" out of nowhere, but not only that, she's been primed for one with a the factors I've described. Thank you for glossing over the other factors I've presented next to 'it being in the family',. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On May 15 2019 07:20 Stratos_speAr wrote: The madness implied with her father and that ran in her family was paranoia and possibly schizophrenia, neither of which have a sudden onset. In fact, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a "madness" fitting this description that would present in such a way without any hints of development beforehand. The show has done literally nothing to show her developing any kind of mental illness-related madness. It has shown her to be ruthless to those that are her enemies, wrong her, or commit acts that she sees as unjust. A sudden development of madness makes absolutely no sense and is just terrible writing, no matter how hard people try to justify it. Man, it’s a tale with fucking dragons and zombies and you are making a psychiatric analysis on why a character shouldn’t act a certain way according to known psychosis. Are you for real? | ||
KwarK
United States43222 Posts
On May 15 2019 14:51 Biff The Understudy wrote: Man, it’s a tale with fucking dragons and zombies and you are making a psychiatric analysis on why a character shouldn’t act a certain way according to known psychosis. Are you for real? This is a stupid argument whenever anyone makes it. The story is told in the format of "it's like our world except for X and Y and Z". If during the siege of KL Cersei started force moving rubble that wouldn't be realistic because the universe has established gravity as an expected rule with the exception of dragons (which obviously defy gravity) and that humans can't do magic with the exception of some priests. Gravity exists and Cersei isn't a priest and therefore Cersei shouldn't be able to reveal telekinetic powers, regardless of whether it's a fantasy story. The idea that all plot holes can be explained with "it's fantasy, what did you expect" is ridiculous, fantasy is still a system based upon rules. The author can establish some rules other than the ones we're familiar with such as long winters and zombies but the rules not explicitly stated are assumed to be the same as ours. Fantasy humans should be treated as identical to real humans except as noted. If we would be surprised that a real human acted in that way we should be surprised that a fantasy human acts in that way because the fantasy that we have asked to believe is not that humans are now entirely irrational. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
On May 15 2019 14:51 Biff The Understudy wrote: Man, it’s a tale with fucking dragons and zombies and you are making a psychiatric analysis on why a character shouldn’t act a certain way according to known psychosis. Are you for real? This is one of those arguments people constantly use when defending bad writing. The important point you need to understand is that the story must be believable within the confines of the universe in which it is being told. Yes there are dragons and demons and magic, but the main characters are still mostly human and act or feel as humans in the real world do. The free folk has rules very different to our society, but the important point is that they explained why they think and act the way they do, it is plausible. So yes, of course the writers could pull some 180 twist out of nowhere for dramatic effect, but that is exactly what bad/lazy writing is. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On May 15 2019 15:04 KwarK wrote: This is a stupid argument whenever anyone makes it. The story is told in the format of "it's like our world except for X and Y and Z". If during the siege of KL Cersei started force moving rubble that wouldn't be realistic because the universe has established gravity as an expected rule with the exception of dragons (which obviously defy gravity) and that humans can't do magic with the exception of some priests. Gravity exists and Cersei isn't a priest and therefore Cersei shouldn't be able to reveal telekinetic powers, regardless of whether it's a fantasy story. The idea that all plot holes can be explained with "it's fantasy, what did you expect" is ridiculous, fantasy is still a system based upon rules. The author can establish some rules other than the ones we're familiar with such as long winters and zombies but the rules not explicitly stated are assumed to be the same as ours. Fantasy humans should be treated as identical to real humans except as noted. If we would be surprised that a real human acted in that way we should be surprised that a fantasy human acts in that way because the fantasy that we have asked to believe is not that humans are now entirely irrational. Sorry but I find the idea of using modern psychiatry to analyze whether a mad character should act a certain way or not in a show that is definitly not trying to be realistic absolutely stupid. Psychosis is not gravity. At that point it’s as dumb as saying that Hamlet sucks because Ophelia’s monologue doesn’t match the description of this or that mental illness you diagnose her with when she goes nuts. Who the fuck cares? She goes mad with grief, period. Dany inherited the madness of her dad and she snaps at the wrong moment. You really want a talk about whether that’s plausible from a psychiatric pov? I’m all for criticizing bad writing, but not on such shitty basis. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On May 15 2019 06:34 fishjie wrote: did the actors just want to pursue new projects and didn't want to keep going? i dont understand why HBO didn't do two more full seasons, instead of the 6 lulzworthy episodes we got. i think given enough time, shit wouldn't have felt rushed and contrived, and we would get a "hell is paved with good intentions" dictator morally grey dany, instead of episode 5 clearly evil maniac dany. it was so over the top i was laughing as she was flying around roasting everyone and it panned out to show the entire city on fire. i mean, HBO is desperately trying to do spin off series to cash in .... WHY NOT JUST KEEP THE MAIN SERIES GOING A LITTLE WHILE LONGER???? the only explanation is the actors were tired of the show, which is a damn shame It was a decision from the showrunners. HBO was completely ok with doing more episodes, but the showrunners wanted two shorter seasons. We can only speculate on the reasons why. They also happen to be the main writers afaik | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On May 15 2019 17:52 Broetchenholer wrote: I almost forgot about the worst scene of the episode, that was so fucking terrible that it immediately slipped my mind after all that epicness. Who thought giving Tyrion those fake Dothraki lines would be comedy gold? How did we end up at this point? How was there not one person on the show that was able to talk them out of doing that? Peter Dinklage was probably so thrilled about that scene... It was quite funny. Not rolling over the floor funny but it made me smile. Guys, like, I went through the thread, and the only thing you do is shit on the show and complain that it was better before. Yup, the quality is not on par with when they had the greatest fantasy writer of today’s source material to work with. We have known that for years and seriously, that's not so surprising. But at one point all this whining and complaining and criticizing about everyfuckingthing is just obnoxious. If you think it's all crap, watch something else. I come here to talk about a show I like and it's 99,9% of toxic negativity because saying that eeeeeeverything sucks makes you cool apparently. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
If you want to read mostly positive things go hang out at r/gameofthrones | ||
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