Better scenario would be Arya sitting on a chair pretending to be cripple with Bran's face and Bran hiding somewhere near, so NK would gps find him anyway, damn.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Exactly. Most of the fun in watching for me were the long chains of cause and effect and the interesting way that interacted with the overall story. That's all gone now. It may have been necessary to avoid a 20 season show, I dunno, but they could have done it better.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
You are again so wrong, game of thrones was always a show with a lot of characters with own motivations trying to fulfill their desire, the plot and conflict happened through the characterisation. To put it simply, it was organic:
The amount of plotting seems to come naturally from the main character rather than being imposed by the author on the characters. Imposed plot feels mechanical, with the wheels and gears of the story machine clearly evident. This drains the characters of their fullness and humanity, making them feel like puppets or pawns. Plot that comes naturally from the hero is not simply one the hero concocts. It is plot that is appropriate to the character’s desire and ability to plan and act - The Anatomy of Story
That's only part of it, but a really important factor in great storytelling, the show doesn't really do that anymore, or at least it doesn't work it out at all. That is why people got mad about sansa's/littlefinger's nothern storyarc for example.
It always juggled a lot of these story threads of multiple factions and even more people in these factions, the politics part was interesting, believable and the micro lvl of writing through dialogue and scenes was so much better as well. Show me a recent scene which is anywhere near as good as these two:
There are countless of iconic scenes from the early seasons, masterfully crafted with big emotional impact while developing characters. I don't remember anything like that in the last few seasons (which might be biased, but thankfully you can prove me wrong and link something if you disagree)
Jesus the contrast between the dialogue in those scenes and the nonsense back and forth oneliners weve had in the past 2 seasons is painful.
*edit: a quick note on oberyn martell btw: he was by far my favorite character from the moment he was introduced. Then he died unexpectedly in one of the most gruesome scenes in the whole series. Why? Because he was cocky and arrogant, and he met the consequences of turning the mountains death into a show. That's exactly what GoT used to be about. Even though he was my favorite character and I hated seeing him die like that, it was a good direction for the story to take. He thought he could just roll on by and take revenge on the mountain and cersei while looking cool and making a spectacle, and he got stomped for it. Because that's not how life works. Arya is the complete antithesis of Oberyns character; she gets to have it all. She gets all the benefits of a couple of months of faceless men training without suffering ANY downsides (like losing her personality). She is now a badass ninja who can slaughter dozens of wights, she gets to take complete revenge on the Freys in a 'cool' way, and she even gets to kill the night king just because. When she's stabbed multiple times in her abdomen and falls into a sewer, something which is basically unsurvivable, it takes her a few days or weeks to shake it off with no lasting consequences. What has Arya suffered since she arrived at the faceless men temple? She gets to eat her cake and have it too.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
Waiting for iconic, well crafted scenes btw
No, dont use in retrospect when I didnt use it please. What were consequences of Robs and Neds slaughters back then when it happened? Nothing. The bad guys won-
What was the consequence of Oberon's death? Nothing. The bad guys won.
It is so easy to say "Oberon's cockiness cost him, woohooo. What great writing." Well then I revert that "great writing" by asking well what is the consequence then for the bad guys for killing Oberon? NOTHING.
Tell me one thing in GoT that really had a balanced end result? You say actions have consequences. Well duh, that happens in real life, in all other fiction. You know the difference between GoT and other fiction? The BAD guys win instead of the GOOD guys. (Except towards the end now obviously) But in the end there is still no balance.
Part of this feeling, I think, also comes from the fact that storylines either are closed or converged together. In the earlier seasons you had a feeling of open world and very wide scenarios (multiple actors and factions plotting against / together), you had small details which left you wonder how do they play a role in the story (e.g. the masked woman who warns Jorah in Qarth, and many others like this one).. now all the remaining main characters are grouped into two factions, so there's much less room for intricacies, and for showing different storylines.
Also, there are less evil characters alive, which are the most interesting: we had the Bolton (son and father), the whole King's Landing group, etc. etc. Right now there's only Cersei (with Euron) and not much space for the plot to evolve I feel. The NK and the WW were never the most *interesting* evil side, since there's almost no interaction with the rest of the plot, and in any case they seemed quite simple from the beginning.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
Waiting for iconic, well crafted scenes btw
No, dont use in retrospect when I didnt use it please. What were consequences of Robs and Neds slaughters back then when it happened? Nothing. The bad guys won-
What was the consequence of Oberon's death? Nothing. The bad guys won.
It is so easy to say "Oberon's cockiness cost him, woohooo. What great writing." Well then I revert that "great writing" by asking well what is the consequence then for the bad guys for killing Oberon? NOTHING.
Tell me one thing in GoT that really had a balanced end result? You say actions have consequences. Well duh, that happens in real life, in all other fiction. You know the difference between GoT and other fiction? The BAD guys win instead of the GOOD guys. (Except towards the end now obviously) But in the end there is still no balance.
Consequence of Ned's death: Robb Stark united the north and rose up in rebellion. It essentially started the war of the 5 kings.
Consequence of Robb's death: the northern rebellion was quashed and the Starks were removed from power, with the Roose Bolton becoming the Warden of the North, and his sadistic bastard son ruling winterfell while "waiting" for him to arrive.
How are those "no consequence"?
Oberyn's death was avenged by killing Myrcella (in the most comically botched of subplots on the TV show... everything about Dorne is a total travesty and you should just assume Myrcella died of consumption and skip every Dorne seen if you rewatch the show). Myrcella's death was what sealed the deal on Cersei going full mad queen, although at this point Hollywood has already taken over the plotlines and this was not done very well.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
Waiting for iconic, well crafted scenes btw
No, dont use in retrospect when I didnt use it please. What were consequences of Robs and Neds slaughters back then when it happened? Nothing. The bad guys won-
What was the consequence of Oberon's death? Nothing. The bad guys won.
It is so easy to say "Oberon's cockiness cost him, woohooo. What great writing." Well then I revert that "great writing" by asking well what is the consequence then for the bad guys for killing Oberon? NOTHING.
Tell me one thing in GoT that really had a balanced end result? You say actions have consequences. Well duh, that happens in real life, in all other fiction. You know the difference between GoT and other fiction? The BAD guys win instead of the GOOD guys. (Except towards the end now obviously) But in the end there is still no balance.
Consequence of Ned's death: Robb Stark united the north and rose up in rebellion. It essentially started the war of the 5 kings.
Consequence of Robb's death: the northern rebellion was quashed and the Starks were removed from power, with the Roose Bolton becoming the Warden of the North, and his sadistic bastard son ruling winterfell while "waiting" for him to arrive.
How are those "no consequence"?
Oberyn's death was avenged by killing Myrcella (in the most comically botched of subplots on the TV show... everything about Dorne is a total travesty and you should just assume Myrcella died of consumption and skip every Dorne seen if you rewatch the show). Myrcella's death was what sealed the deal on Cersei going full mad queen, although at this point Hollywood has already taken over the plotlines and this was not done very well.
If you define that as consequences then what sort of fiction does not have consequences?
I've always annoyed my GF with being so geeky about Valyrian steel, so imagine my excitement when Oathkeeper, Longclaw, the Tarly family sword and Littlefinger's dagger all ended up in the same place at the same time while facing a horde of Others.
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
Waiting for iconic, well crafted scenes btw
No, dont use in retrospect when I didnt use it please. What were consequences of Robs and Neds slaughters back then when it happened? Nothing. The bad guys won-
What was the consequence of Oberon's death? Nothing. The bad guys won.
It is so easy to say "Oberon's cockiness cost him, woohooo. What great writing." Well then I revert that "great writing" by asking well what is the consequence then for the bad guys for killing Oberon? NOTHING.
Tell me one thing in GoT that really had a balanced end result? You say actions have consequences. Well duh, that happens in real life, in all other fiction. You know the difference between GoT and other fiction? The BAD guys win instead of the GOOD guys. (Except towards the end now obviously) But in the end there is still no balance.
You literally used the current status to say there were no consequences, i just pointed out how ridiculous that is.
I don't understand why "balance" is any factor whatsoever here, it literally doesn't matter. Don't believe everythign thanos says. You were stating that these deaths were purely for shock factor, Acrofales already proved you wrong in showcasing the narrative effects of these deaths. You still don't understand the different levels of storytelling here, what a certain death does to the audience, producing shock/grief and what that same death does on a narrative lvl. Two different things. Both have to be there for a death to be truly meaningful, the latter has to be there for the new plotlines to feel organic.
You say there is always consequence, no there isn't. Littlefinger's death for example didn't do anything other than ending his storyline. The death of the sandsnakes and the dornish did nothign other than ending their storyline, all examples of D&D trying to kill people off but failing at making it impact anything, both on the emotional and narrative lvl.
I am still waiting for you to link me some scenes.
On April 30 2019 21:30 sharkie wrote: I just realised why you guys are so upset about the newer seasons! There is less sex, gore and swearing happening!
Because those three things are the real reason GoT has become so popular. ^^
No they are not, certainly part of the appeal, that was always HBO's thing though. Being able to showcase things other shows simply cannot do on american tv. The real reason GoT got as popular as it is, that's because the early seasons are just extremely well written for the most part (ofc it's not perfect either). So far you didn't really try to engage what other people say though, we had basically the same talk about impactful deaths before and you ignored everything.
On April 30 2019 21:30 sharkie wrote: I just realised why you guys are so upset about the newer seasons! There is less sex, gore and swearing happening!
Because those three things are the real reason GoT has become so popular and why you love it. ^^
I think I realized why you're defending it. None of the main characters can die any more so you don't have to feel sad. Thing is, none of the main characters die in Teletubbies either so you might as well watch that.
Littlefinger's death had the consequence of Sansa being finally free of all reins and being able to act on her own and less lieing and intrigue in GoT.
Dorn's and Sandsnakes disappearance has as much value and effect as losing the Riverlands had back then. Why do people complain about Dorn but never about the Riverlands? Yeah because Riverlands was destroyed back then "when GoT was good".
I tend to see sharkie's point on this. Littlefinger's death is the consequence of his actions: the Stark changed over the course of the show, he cannot manipulate them as easily as before, and trying to do so (and putting Sansa against Arya) results in him getting executed, as consequence of his lack of attention (you can see through season 7 how both Sansa and Arya have changed, while he fails to realize he cannot plot around them as before). The only difference is that he is one of the "bad" guys, but his death is still consequence of his actions (and it contributes to the story in the sense that it shows us how the balance changed, and the Stark children are not children anymore).
edit: I also would have expected more people to die in this battle, but I'm not *that* upset about it. Sure, Greyworm seemed doomed (especially after Melisandre passes by him saying Valar Morgulis), but it's not like this would change the plot that much. It might have a stronger emotional impact than him living, but it's not that big. If a major character (Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Sansa, ..) would have died in Winterfell last episode, that would have major consequences, but I also don't see how it would be motivated by previous storylines..
On April 30 2019 05:17 virpi wrote: I'm kinda angry. All that build up for Arya ex machina? Come on. I really hope they'll do something surprising in the next episode. Otherwise, we're on our way to Lost 2.0, which would be a shame.
I mean, at some point when the 20-something guys left are about to die, what do you expect? Obviously there is going to be some ass-pull of epic proportion...
Anyway I shouldn't have come read this thread, I'm kinda baffled at how hard it is for some of you guys to enjoy this kind of things. I know we're on an RTS forum and all that and we're all pretty rational people, but it must be hard enjoying any kind of fiction these days. I don't envy you, I found this episode riveting. It sets new standards in production at least (like, the overall visuals/music).
If I had to say something non-plot related, I just wasn't too much of a fan of the whole sneaking-past-slow-cackling-zombies trope played 100% straight-up in that Arya scene.
If you know you are watching a dumb show/movie you can just turn your brain of and enjoy it for what it is. Problem is GoT wasn't like that. It started out as easily the most in realism-based fantasty show ever. Characters had agency but were always subject to the many dangers present in medieval life. Khal drogo died of an infection, Ned got beheaded because Geoffrey needed some spectacle, Tywin got crossbowed on the toilet by his son, the whole robb group got slaughtered because of their naivety and underestimating the depravity their enemies would stoop to. Since season 5 GoT has been devolving into regular old hollywood bullshit, and now that they have to end it, it's clearer than ever. When you attract a huge crowd of people who are really into what the show sets out to be, and then the show does a complete 180 and becomes exactly the opposite of what it was, are you surprised that the internet is full of angry nerds?
What? Game of thrones has always been exactly a show where you enjoyed it most when you turned off your brain.. Its good at hiding it but in the end its exactly that. Why do you think its the most popular pop culture tv show? lol Definitely not because its brainy
Did you watch the first 4 seasons? Whatever characters did there were nearly always serious consequences. That is simply not the case anymore. Just look at cersei blowing up all the people she didnt like in kings landing and getting no pushback whatsoever.
Ned, Rob's deaths - what were the serious consequences for Ned, Rob and Oberon's deaths? They only happened for shock value.
Dorn is gone, North has almost no lord/ladies or fight-able people. Pretty sure these iconic exchanges were completely one-sided.
GoT never had balance. The bad guys were always in the lead
Oh so because multiple seasons later after all the consequence to these deaths already happened we just had another big fight in the north which slaughtered most of them, the logical conclusion is that these deaths didn't matter for the story and were just played for shock value. Genius take.
Sadly one has to somewhat agree with the dorne part, but that's on D&D and start of the big downhill streak we are on, dorne in the show was basically the start of mediocrity.
Waiting for iconic, well crafted scenes btw
No, dont use in retrospect when I didnt use it please. What were consequences of Robs and Neds slaughters back then when it happened? Nothing. The bad guys won-
What was the consequence of Oberon's death? Nothing. The bad guys won.
It is so easy to say "Oberon's cockiness cost him, woohooo. What great writing." Well then I revert that "great writing" by asking well what is the consequence then for the bad guys for killing Oberon? NOTHING.
Tell me one thing in GoT that really had a balanced end result? You say actions have consequences. Well duh, that happens in real life, in all other fiction. You know the difference between GoT and other fiction? The BAD guys win instead of the GOOD guys. (Except towards the end now obviously) But in the end there is still no balance.
Consequence of Ned's death: Robb Stark united the north and rose up in rebellion. It essentially started the war of the 5 kings.
Consequence of Robb's death: the northern rebellion was quashed and the Starks were removed from power, with the Roose Bolton becoming the Warden of the North, and his sadistic bastard son ruling winterfell while "waiting" for him to arrive.
How are those "no consequence"?
Oberyn's death was avenged by killing Myrcella (in the most comically botched of subplots on the TV show... everything about Dorne is a total travesty and you should just assume Myrcella died of consumption and skip every Dorne seen if you rewatch the show). Myrcella's death was what sealed the deal on Cersei going full mad queen, although at this point Hollywood has already taken over the plotlines and this was not done very well.
If you define that as consequences then what sort of fiction does not have consequences?
Aryas whole storyline since joining the faceless men is fiction that does not have consequences. See my rant before.
EPT
