On June 29 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Her character does not have the benefit of going full Hamlet or Macbeth like Cersie. So like Kit's Jon Snow, she has a character that is mostly supposed to be good and be in contrast to all the terrible people in GoT. But she doesn’t get to play someone degrading into full madness like Cersie.
It's not about that though. Kit's range as an actor is greater than Emilia's (i talk GoT only here because i don't know their other stuff). Emilia always has the same facial expressions, always that entitled look on her face when she should play "strong Dany". While Lena also shows a somewhat low range with Cersei, her whole presence is still superior. As i said in my other comment, i don't think i have seen one scene with Dany where i thought "damn that was very well acted". I am sure i can find at least one for every single other (main) actor on the show. I guess this might be subjective to some extent, but in her case it's hard for me to see where you are coming from tbh, maybe you can link some scenes that stand out to you.
On June 29 2016 05:12 Laurens wrote: I watched "me before you" this weekend, starring Emilia Clarke.
She's a great actress. Her role in GoT is just forcing her to always have the same expressions and speeches and whatnot.
I cannot comment on that. I disagree that her role in GoT would force her to play it as she does though, unless literally every single director wants exactly that from her (which i doubt)
Well, watch the movie and you will see a good acting Emilia Clarke. Whether you want to believe it or not, her "same facial expression" problem only occurs in GoT, so maybe it IS a directors problem..
Its that she is in the same scene all the time. On the throne, being a ruler with an impassive expression.
On June 29 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Her character does not have the benefit of going full Hamlet or Macbeth like Cersie. So like Kit's Jon Snow, she has a character that is mostly supposed to be good and be in contrast to all the terrible people in GoT. But she doesn’t get to play someone degrading into full madness like Cersie.
It's not about that though. Kit's range as an actor is greater than Emilia's (i talk GoT only here because i don't know their other stuff). Emilia always has the same facial expressions, always that entitled look on her face when she should play "strong Dany". While Lena also shows a somewhat low range with Cersei, her whole presence is still superior. As i said in my other comment, i don't think i have seen one scene with Dany where i thought "damn that was very well acted". I am sure i can find at least one for every single other (main) actor on the show. I guess this might be subjective to some extent, but in her case it's hard for me to see where you are coming from tbh, maybe you can link some scenes that stand out to you.
On June 29 2016 05:12 Laurens wrote: I watched "me before you" this weekend, starring Emilia Clarke.
She's a great actress. Her role in GoT is just forcing her to always have the same expressions and speeches and whatnot.
I cannot comment on that. I disagree that her role in GoT would force her to play it as she does though, unless literally every single director wants exactly that from her (which i doubt)
Well, watch the movie and you will see a good acting Emilia Clarke. Whether you want to believe it or not, her "same facial expression" problem only occurs in GoT, so maybe it IS a directors problem..
Its that she is in the same scene all the time. On the throne, being a ruler with an impassive expression.
That doesn't mean that you cannot add nuance as an actor if you are good enough. I agree that in the first season she was better suited for the role, but even there i cannot remember her being all that amazing either. Better than now for sure, she was a decent "scared Dany", but a better actress would have done more with that too. This might read like Emilia hating which it's not really because i like her as a person, but i don't think she is all that great as Dany and that is part of the reason why a lot of people cannot connect to the storyline imo.
The execution of the first part of the season finale was nothing short of masterful. It wasn't quite as shocking as the red wedding the first time around, but the camerawork, the pacing, the building of the tension gave me chills. And I think that a large part of why was the music. It's just amazing and it was meshed together perfectly.
It's interesting, my buddy and I try to understand what the motives of the characters are and what truly drives them. We disagreed on Ramsey's motivations, where he argued that the guy is a straight up psychopath where I thought that yes he's a psycho but it's also motivated by other factors I won't get into.
Cercei is interesting though. Throughout the show, she mentions a few time that she lives for her children. However it seems to me like she lived vicariously through them, in the sense that she always felt like she should've been born a man, and being a woman undermined her, and her best chance to have some influence was through her children. That's why she was so distraught when she felt she was losing her grasp on power when Joffrey listening to her, and when Margaery started manipulating Tommen. A very strange scene was her reaction to Tommen's death. She wasn't broken up like she was when Joffrey and Myrcella died. Maybe it's because she was numbed by all the horrible shit that happened around her, but that wouldn't be enough. Surely she wouldn't be numb enough to handle the death of her last child this well. But maybe it's because she was finally in a position where she could rule despite being a woman in Westeros. It seems to me like Cercei was fine with Tommen's death because it allowed her to express her ambitions.
Sucks for her she's essentially completely fucked in every possible way.
On June 29 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Her character does not have the benefit of going full Hamlet or Macbeth like Cersie. So like Kit's Jon Snow, she has a character that is mostly supposed to be good and be in contrast to all the terrible people in GoT. But she doesn’t get to play someone degrading into full madness like Cersie.
It's not about that though. Kit's range as an actor is greater than Emilia's (i talk GoT only here because i don't know their other stuff). Emilia always has the same facial expressions, always that entitled look on her face when she should play "strong Dany". While Lena also shows a somewhat low range with Cersei, her whole presence is still superior. As i said in my other comment, i don't think i have seen one scene with Dany where i thought "damn that was very well acted". I am sure i can find at least one for every single other (main) actor on the show. I guess this might be subjective to some extent, but in her case it's hard for me to see where you are coming from tbh, maybe you can link some scenes that stand out to you.
On June 29 2016 05:12 Laurens wrote: I watched "me before you" this weekend, starring Emilia Clarke.
She's a great actress. Her role in GoT is just forcing her to always have the same expressions and speeches and whatnot.
I cannot comment on that. I disagree that her role in GoT would force her to play it as she does though, unless literally every single director wants exactly that from her (which i doubt)
Well, watch the movie and you will see a good acting Emilia Clarke. Whether you want to believe it or not, her "same facial expression" problem only occurs in GoT, so maybe it IS a directors problem..
Its that she is in the same scene all the time. On the throne, being a ruler with an impassive expression.
That doesn't mean that you cannot add nuance as an actor if you are good enough. I agree that in the first season she was better suited for the role, but even there i cannot remember her being all that amazing either. Better than now for sure, she was a decent "scared Dany", but a better actress would have done more with that too. This might read like Emilia hating which it's not really because i like her as a person, but i don't think she is all that great as Dany and that is part of the reason why a lot of people cannot connect to the storyline imo.
It's always easier for most people to appreciate acting when an actor is playing a mentally unstable character.
Another factor in her reaction to Tommen's death is she may have finally come to believe & accept the prophecy that's been haunting her all her life. Before Joffrey died she always kept that moment in her head, but it's somewhat unclear how sternly she believes in it, and even if she did she also would believe she can change said prophecy (hence her hatred of Margaery as she believes her to be the young queen that would take her place). As her children die though I think she's come to accept the prophecy more and more as inevitable and that's why her actions have shifted over increasingly into doing things that make her feel good rather than achieving specific goals.
It's always easier for most people to appreciate acting when an actor is playing a mentally unstable character.
There are tons of actors who can put on a convincing performance in a similar role as Dany. Melisandre does a very good job for example. Cersei has also shown she can perform in that role.
On June 29 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Her character does not have the benefit of going full Hamlet or Macbeth like Cersie. So like Kit's Jon Snow, she has a character that is mostly supposed to be good and be in contrast to all the terrible people in GoT. But she doesn’t get to play someone degrading into full madness like Cersie.
It's not about that though. Kit's range as an actor is greater than Emilia's (i talk GoT only here because i don't know their other stuff). Emilia always has the same facial expressions, always that entitled look on her face when she should play "strong Dany". While Lena also shows a somewhat low range with Cersei, her whole presence is still superior. As i said in my other comment, i don't think i have seen one scene with Dany where i thought "damn that was very well acted". I am sure i can find at least one for every single other (main) actor on the show. I guess this might be subjective to some extent, but in her case it's hard for me to see where you are coming from tbh, maybe you can link some scenes that stand out to you.
On June 29 2016 05:12 Laurens wrote: I watched "me before you" this weekend, starring Emilia Clarke.
She's a great actress. Her role in GoT is just forcing her to always have the same expressions and speeches and whatnot.
I cannot comment on that. I disagree that her role in GoT would force her to play it as she does though, unless literally every single director wants exactly that from her (which i doubt)
Well, watch the movie and you will see a good acting Emilia Clarke. Whether you want to believe it or not, her "same facial expression" problem only occurs in GoT, so maybe it IS a directors problem..
Its that she is in the same scene all the time. On the throne, being a ruler with an impassive expression.
That doesn't mean that you cannot add nuance as an actor if you are good enough. I agree that in the first season she was better suited for the role, but even there i cannot remember her being all that amazing either. Better than now for sure, she was a decent "scared Dany", but a better actress would have done more with that too. This might read like Emilia hating which it's not really because i like her as a person, but i don't think she is all that great as Dany and that is part of the reason why a lot of people cannot connect to the storyline imo.
It's always easier for most people to appreciate acting when an actor is playing a mentally unstable character.
Maybe, that's not the reason i don't enjoy Emilia though. This is no comparison to Cersei, this is a comparison to all my experience watching other tv shows/movies. Emilia doesn't play her role with any nuance imo. Which is a shame because Dany is a young woman who struggles with the power which was "given" to her. When i watch Emilia play the role all i see is entitlement and the same 2-3 facial expressions. As i said, i would be happy to see actual scenes i simply don't remember atm where she stands out, i don't think there are any though.
As tedious as Dany scenes are and as much as I hate how her part is acted, I will give her a nod that that this simply could be her take on Dany. A thoughtful and calm presence always... someone who tries to be at least. It's just her take on the character.
One reason it's hard to like her though is because she lacks passion. Cersei shows a great deal of passion in what she does. She enjoys what she does. Dany does not because she always seems to be trying to determine the best course of action. Which I'll give a nod to her because it's just part of her character. But it doesn't make great viewing and countless scenes with her are just bad. "Let me just tip over this brazier of fire... and now this one... and now... this one!!" Whenever she tries to come off as powerful she comes off as weak to me.
Perhaps it also just comes with the maturity of being an older woman to give off an extra sense of power and presence. Older women know how to wield their gifts, body language and facial expressions a lot better than young girls do. Polly Walker (Atia of the Julii) in Rome for instance was enjoyable for much the same reason.
Maybe it feels like Dany is acted poorly because of the director or whoever is in charge of that kind of stuff. In ep9 when she gets back to the pyramid and just gives that death glare to Tyrion while he's terrified and rambling away, like, what the fuck is that scene? Mhysa who loves Meereen's people just idles with a "confident?" look on her face as hundreds are dying below from siege engine impacts on her city?
Allow me to be bold and say this is the incorrect facial expression under the circumstances
As an actress, what was she gonna do with that? The people who run the show were like "let's drag Dany way out of character in order to have this cool badass moment where she's completely unfazed by the fires all over the city she's supposed to protect". To an extent she's kind of forced to execute a shit role written like shit by shit writers.*
On June 28 2016 03:04 Plansix wrote: Another topic: Can we talk about the smash cut from baby Jon to adult Jon face and the music? That thing was powerful, but understated. And the music so well scored.
That was really impressive.. Overall the soundtrack for this episode was sooooo good...
Arya really went down a dark road, feeding his children to lord Frey. I liked how they referenced the legend of the rat cook that Bran tells in season 3 (I was waiting for something like this since that episode!)
Really? I found the piano to be really out of place. Can't recall a single moment during the last 6 seasons a piano have been used. I didn't like it at least...
I thought the music was horrible too.
I am a professional musician though so maybe I'm difficult but the piano chord sequence was just bad music and horribly cliché in my opinion.
Great episode, but I'm a bit gutted to see some characters go so fast : as it looks like, the whole story has lost a lot of its tension :
- Cercei is unopposed in KL. Absolutely everybody is dead or gone. - Cercei won't be a resistance to Dany, she is hated by everyone, and Dany has united something like 6 armies. - Jon is basically without enemy anymore south of the wall. A fight with the Lannisters in the current situation would be really odd.
I think they'll have to introduce new characters and create some more tension because everything south of the wall is basically solved by now.
There is also the economy of the scene itself. It doesn’t allow for anything beyond “Yo, I’m back, explain what happened. Lets ruin people.” We don’t have a scene of her seeing the city itself before getting on a dragon or anything else. After the first part of this season with her resolved, she has been on a strictly linier path to boats and across the ocean. I think the writers knew people were tired of that entire plot and her being bogged down in that city for several seasons.
On June 30 2016 01:48 bardtown wrote: Wartime leaders should be more calm in an emergency than out of one. Threat should be galvanising, not undermining, if you want to be effective.
I understand that a "war leader" should be levelheaded, but Dany's character was never like that, she just changed for the occasion. Plus, she was not really being levelheaded, she was calmly listening to Tyrion who was acting defeated. She could've said she had a plan, she could've executed her plan, but she just stood there listening to stories about her father. So it was pointless. A levelheaded leader during war time listens to useful input and gives out useful information to his people. A levelheaded listen to the latest trivia about papa Targaryen during artillery strikes.
And then they walk probably tens of miles to discuss terms of surrender before actually sending out the dragons to autowin the conflict. Why not send the dragons right away and discuss terms of surrender later? They just wait. We call it a "coup de théâtre". It was just for the cool factor and it made no sense. It feels to me like GoT is doing a lot of fan service in recent seasons.
As for the music thing, everyone I know liked it. Don't know what's wrong with you guys .
On June 29 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Her character does not have the benefit of going full Hamlet or Macbeth like Cersie. So like Kit's Jon Snow, she has a character that is mostly supposed to be good and be in contrast to all the terrible people in GoT. But she doesn’t get to play someone degrading into full madness like Cersie.
It's not about that though. Kit's range as an actor is greater than Emilia's (i talk GoT only here because i don't know their other stuff). Emilia always has the same facial expressions, always that entitled look on her face when she should play "strong Dany". While Lena also shows a somewhat low range with Cersei, her whole presence is still superior. As i said in my other comment, i don't think i have seen one scene with Dany where i thought "damn that was very well acted". I am sure i can find at least one for every single other (main) actor on the show. I guess this might be subjective to some extent, but in her case it's hard for me to see where you are coming from tbh, maybe you can link some scenes that stand out to you.
On June 29 2016 05:12 Laurens wrote: I watched "me before you" this weekend, starring Emilia Clarke.
She's a great actress. Her role in GoT is just forcing her to always have the same expressions and speeches and whatnot.
I cannot comment on that. I disagree that her role in GoT would force her to play it as she does though, unless literally every single director wants exactly that from her (which i doubt)
Well, watch the movie and you will see a good acting Emilia Clarke. Whether you want to believe it or not, her "same facial expression" problem only occurs in GoT, so maybe it IS a directors problem..
Its that she is in the same scene all the time. On the throne, being a ruler with an impassive expression.
That doesn't mean that you cannot add nuance as an actor if you are good enough. I agree that in the first season she was better suited for the role, but even there i cannot remember her being all that amazing either. Better than now for sure, she was a decent "scared Dany", but a better actress would have done more with that too. This might read like Emilia hating which it's not really because i like her as a person, but i don't think she is all that great as Dany and that is part of the reason why a lot of people cannot connect to the storyline imo.
From what I have read, people hate her storyline in the books to (when stuck in Mareen). I mean there is no doubt that's boring as hell, until now. She won the siege of mareen and is finally, finally heading to westeros.
I think she plays Dany just fine, but for me to think you are a bad actor, you have to be really really bad as I don't overly examine scenes and look for flaws/things I don't agree with.
I feel like the scene between Edmure and Jaime was extremely important because it seemed to highlight that Jaime was essentially a pretty decent person...until you bring in Cersei and then all bets are off.
Tobias Menzeies (Edmure's actor) in Outlander would be a top-tier psychopath if they brought his Black Jack Randall chararcter over from there. Tied with Ramsay, basically.
Maybe in 7.1 / 7.2 they can tap into some of that... if he comes out in control of River Run or the Twins.
I don't know how much they will be willing to add more tension / storyline / new conflicts in the south: they have to wrap up the story in two seasons and I guess they'll have to focus on the main conflict (dead vs alive) for quite a while.. Unfortunately the show will have to end at some point
In all fairness, making new political intrigue plots would make it seem like complete bullshit / anti-climactic when Dany comes with her Dragons to wipe out The Night King.
On June 30 2016 05:20 VHbb wrote: I don't know how much they will be willing to add more tension / storyline / new conflicts in the south: they have to wrap up the story in two seasons and I guess they'll have to focus on the main conflict (dead vs alive) for quite a while.. Unfortunately the show will have to end at some point
We have already gotten a preview of the drama to come. Dany arrives with an army that Cersie cannot beat or win against. But she has the ability to blow up sections of the city, just like the mad king. And the Wall still has to fall.
But I expect a couple good back stabs before it all wraps up.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x0QRZPP.jpg)
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