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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 28 2016 19:13 xeliana wrote:
the season finale was pretty dope.
one thing im not sure about though:
when did danny and tyrion get so chummy? did i miss something or was this their first REAL 1on1 scene? felt weird to me, that tyrion "suddenly" was all about danny.
They had a real one on one scene in season 5. Don't remember the exact episode, then she went away after the arena and they didn't see each other until episode 9 of this season.
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On June 28 2016 23:03 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2016 19:13 xeliana wrote:
the season finale was pretty dope.
one thing im not sure about though:
when did danny and tyrion get so chummy? did i miss something or was this their first REAL 1on1 scene? felt weird to me, that tyrion "suddenly" was all about danny.
They had a real one on one scene in season 5. Don't remember the exact episode, then she went away after the arena and they didn't see each other until episode 9 of this season.
I think that was awarded to him because he didn’t want her to destroy the city and tried to manage in her absence. He wasn’t power hungry, didn’t try to overthrow her or cut deals she wouldn’t approve of. Freed the dragons. Tried not to destroy the kingdom and so on. He proved he could be trusted to look out for her interests when she wasn’t around, which is really what the job of the Hand of the Queen is.
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Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her?
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On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her?
I think it's because he realizes her potential. Seeing everything she has done, with the disadvantage of being a woman, along with the fact that she recognized and trusted him in a way no one has.
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On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her?
He believes she could be a good ruler, which he has never felt about any other ruler? He pretty much explains that he doesn’t feel cynical about her or her rule, which is a big deal for him. He has always been a character looking for purpose and attempting to prevent the cruel abuse of power. It is what gets him in trouble with his nephew.
On June 29 2016 00:17 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her? I think it's because he realizes her potential. Seeing everything she has done, with the disadvantage of being a woman, along with the fact that she recognized and trusted him in a way no one has.
Also this.
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So this may be a dumb question (I've only skimmed the surface of this show and watched the finale), but if Jon has a child with a legitimate wife as Lord in the North without being legitimized as a Stark what will they be called? Are his kids Snows as long as he isn't an official Stark? It'd be odd if none of the future Starks are actually Starks.
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United States43991 Posts
On June 29 2016 00:22 TheTenthDoc wrote:
So this may be a dumb question (I've only skimmed the surface of this show and watched the finale), but if Jon has a child with a legitimate wife as Lord in the North without being legitimized as a Stark what will they be called? Are his kids Snows as long as he isn't an official Stark? It'd be odd if none of the future Starks are actually Starks.
I don't know that commoners even have last names. Lordly bastards have bastard names but most people just go by their name. But he can legitimize himself at this point if he wants.
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On June 28 2016 02:58 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2016 02:41 Plansix wrote:On June 28 2016 02:14 udgnim wrote:On June 27 2016 16:27 wherebugsgo wrote:On June 27 2016 16:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I have so many questions.
1. Does Varys have a teleporter? Did he borrow it from Littlefigner? He went from Mereen to Dorne to Mereen to on the ship again in 2 episodes
2. How did Arya get to Westeros? Why did the faceless men not murder her? The faceless men make no sense.
3. Why is Cersie queen? I recall that if Tommen died then Dany is actually the next in line by standard inheritance. And after Dany it's Jamie. This must come up later.
4. Jon's a badass but not a Stark, at least not by name. Why are the lord rallying against him as if he was?
Still a cool episode but goddamn this show makes me confused. Varys didn't go back to Meereen. There were Tyrell ships in that shot, they just happened to join with the rest of Dany's navy. The Faceless Men let Arya leave. Not quite sure why they would care about Westeros, but it's clear that the organization does for some reason (otherwise why would a Faceless Man have been in Westeros and have been drawn so strongly to Arya in the first place?) To me it seems like Jaqen/the Faceless Men accepted Arya as having some purpose to fulfill in Westeros and trained her as their own for that purpose. It was a sign that she had learned all that she had to learn when she herself realized that she belongs in Westeros, and she had learned enough to kill the Waif by herself. Cersei is queen because she has the power now. She killed everyone else, whether it be accidentally (Tommen) or directly (Baelor). Not sure where you get the impression that Dany is after Tommen in the line of succession, or why Jaime is after Dany. After Tommen dies it's not clear at all who has the "right" to the throne, as if such a thing ever mattered in the first place. Lastly, Jon is being proclaimed king in the north because despite him being a bastard, hundreds of people saw him personally take the fight to the cruelest ruler the north has ever seen, and come out soundly victorious. He is seen as a unifier, and everyone who was coerced into backing the Boltons is backing him out of choice. It does seem that there may be some tension with Littlefinger and Sansa, though. read some theory that the Iron Bank of Braavos has ties with the Faceless Men That's a fun theory. It would also give them a reason for training up Arya and then just setting her lose. The bank likes stability and as long as Cersie has power, that won't happen. So unleash an angry Stark trained as a Faceless and then they can't be blamed. Are you telling me banks control everything even in GoT's universe?
It's a weirdly common trope in fantasy that some kind of mysterious omnipresent bank controls everything :D.
(off the top of my head: "Valint & Balk" from The First Law, by J. Abercrombie, and Kelem in The Red Queen's War, by M. Lawrence)
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United States43991 Posts
The Iron Bank seem pretty shit honestly. So they loaned a bunch of money to Robert on the assumption that they could get it back from him and his heirs, either willingly or by threatening them with mercenaries and a coup. The only problem is Robert was himself deposed by a coup so they then had to try and recover money from the revolutionaries who didn't really give a shit. They then funded a shitty counter revolutionary movement which, for some reason, started chasing shit in the north and lost all their mercenaries, the only upside to the bank being that at least they didn't have to pay them. The revolutionaries are now all dead and a coup has been staged against the coup and at this point I doubt the Iron Bank even know who owes them the money they want. They're in deeper thanks to Stannis, Cersei isn't even remotely scared by them, there is no rival who wants or needs their money and the entire place is about to have yet another revolution.
They're not getting their money back. When Dany takes over they'll have to explain how they gave a bunch of money to the people who killed her father and brother and that they'd like her to pay it back. Hell, she'll probably ask for reparations.
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On June 29 2016 00:51 Dota 2 - Secret Shop wrote:
i dont think i can wait another year for a new season
Hey at least it's only a year. Book fans would be fine with that for sure :D
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On June 29 2016 00:36 KwarK wrote:
The Iron Bank seem pretty shit honestly. So they loaned a bunch of money to Robert on the assumption that they could get it back from him and his heirs, either willingly or by threatening them with mercenaries and a coup. The only problem is Robert was himself deposed by a coup so they then had to try and recover money from the revolutionaries who didn't really give a shit. They then funded a shitty counter revolutionary movement which, for some reason, started chasing shit in the north and lost all their mercenaries, the only upside to the bank being that at least they didn't have to pay them. The revolutionaries are now all dead and a coup has been staged against the coup and at this point I doubt the Iron Bank even know who owes them the money they want. They're in deeper thanks to Stannis, Cersei isn't even remotely scared by them, there is no rival who wants or needs their money and the entire place is about to have yet another revolution.
They're not getting their money back. When Dany takes over they'll have to explain how they gave a bunch of money to the people who killed her father and brother and that they'd like her to pay it back. Hell, she'll probably ask for reparations.
The Iron Bank loaned out money to the Baratheon Regime *after* they took control, and with all the heirs of the old regime dead and the country united again it probably seemed pretty reasonable. Funding Stannis at the time seemed like it had potential, they probably figured they could provide a small loan to Stannis and the potential payoff was big enough (justice on the defaulting King's Landing & repayment through Stannis).
I don't think the storyline has panned out well, like many of the side plots (Quaithe anyone?) that lost time as the show went on, but we'll see where it goes.
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OK so i binge watched season 6
people are not kidding about episode 10
holy shit just holy shit
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On June 29 2016 00:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her? He believes she could be a good ruler, which he has never felt about any other ruler? He pretty much explains that he doesn’t feel cynical about her or her rule, which is a big deal for him. He has always been a character looking for purpose and attempting to prevent the cruel abuse of power. It is what gets him in trouble with his nephew. Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 00:17 giftdgecko wrote:On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her? I think it's because he realizes her potential. Seeing everything she has done, with the disadvantage of being a woman, along with the fact that she recognized and trusted him in a way no one has. Also this.
She doesn't look that good a ruler though. If she didn't have her dragons she'd have been killed 20 times because of bad diplomacy already
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On June 29 2016 02:26 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 00:19 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her? He believes she could be a good ruler, which he has never felt about any other ruler? He pretty much explains that he doesn’t feel cynical about her or her rule, which is a big deal for him. He has always been a character looking for purpose and attempting to prevent the cruel abuse of power. It is what gets him in trouble with his nephew. On June 29 2016 00:17 giftdgecko wrote:On June 29 2016 00:10 Velr wrote:
Thats why she likes him, but why does he idolize her? I think it's because he realizes her potential. Seeing everything she has done, with the disadvantage of being a woman, along with the fact that she recognized and trusted him in a way no one has. Also this. She doesn't look that good a ruler though. If she didn't have her dragons she'd have been killed 20 times because of bad diplomacy already
The Lannisters would have been destroyed if it wasn't for their money. The Boltons would have been destroyed if it wasn't for their political connections and fear. Everyone in this world would have been destroyed if not for that thing that prevents people destroying them.
Dany did a some good for the region she was in. She freed the slaves and is slowly trying to change the culture of the region. She may have ended the raiding done by teh horse lords by taking them across the sea, where they will likely change as as well. She made mistakes, but so has everyone in the series. All the mistakes in diplomacy she made were with shitty people trying to stop her from destroying their power base. They were never going to get along, really.
Also, good is relative. Look at Kings Landing and tell me that Dany and T-man being in charge of that place wouldn't be better for everyone there.
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She'd have played her cards differently without her dragons, so i don't see how that's relevant. You have to have some level of base power to build off of, hers were her dragons, don't see the issue here
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On June 29 2016 02:36 KOFgokuon wrote:
She'd have played her cards differently without her dragons, so i don't see how that's relevant. You have to have some level of base power to build off of, hers were her dragons, don't see the issue here
she'd have very little if any Dothraki following her if her dragons were not born
she would have died at the gates of Qarth if she didn't have living dragons as an entrance ticket
she would have no Unsullied Army if she didn't have living dragons to bargain with
the only time the Targaryan name meant anything was when Illyrio helped house them and arranged the marriage with Khal Drogo
after that, it was her dragons, not her name that helped get her to where she is today
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On June 29 2016 03:13 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 02:36 KOFgokuon wrote:
She'd have played her cards differently without her dragons, so i don't see how that's relevant. You have to have some level of base power to build off of, hers were her dragons, don't see the issue here she'd have very little if any Dothraki following her if her dragons were not born she would have died at the gates of Qarth if she didn't have living dragons as an entrance ticket she would have no Unsullied Army if she didn't have living dragons to bargain with the only time the Targaryan name meant anything was when Illyrio helped house them and arranged the marriage with Khal Drogo after that, it was her dragons, not her name that helped get her to where she is today
But you don’t know if she would have acted differently if she didn’t’ have the dragons. Those decisions were made because of the dragons. And the dragons don’t listen to just anyone, they listen to her. She raised them. Saying that she got there because of the dragons is like saying the Tyrion got where is he because was born smart. Or that Jamie would be where he is without his talent with a sword. Or Cerci without her looks.
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On June 29 2016 03:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 03:13 udgnim wrote:On June 29 2016 02:36 KOFgokuon wrote:
She'd have played her cards differently without her dragons, so i don't see how that's relevant. You have to have some level of base power to build off of, hers were her dragons, don't see the issue here she'd have very little if any Dothraki following her if her dragons were not born she would have died at the gates of Qarth if she didn't have living dragons as an entrance ticket she would have no Unsullied Army if she didn't have living dragons to bargain with the only time the Targaryan name meant anything was when Illyrio helped house them and arranged the marriage with Khal Drogo after that, it was her dragons, not her name that helped get her to where she is today But you don’t know if she would have acted differently if she didn’t’ have the dragons. Those decisions were made because of the dragons. And the dragons don’t listen to just anyone, they listen to her. She raised them. Saying that she got there because of the dragons is like saying the Tyrion got where is he because was born smart. Or that Jamie would be where he is without his talent with a sword. Or Cerci without her looks.
The primary issue is that its easier to overlook that fact with other characters like the lannisters because they are far more complex and entertaining. Jaime is arguably the best character in the series thanks to the fullness of his arc of redemption. Tyrion is generally viewed unfavorably for being an ugly dwarf. But he uses his talents and name given gifts to put himself in the best position he can. Cersei is fucking insane, but she believes herself, Tywin's heir. Dany is just overtly arrogant, particularly in the show. How many times this season alone did she mention all her titles/conquer speech? There is no growth or substance.
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On June 29 2016 03:42 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 03:18 Plansix wrote:On June 29 2016 03:13 udgnim wrote:On June 29 2016 02:36 KOFgokuon wrote:
She'd have played her cards differently without her dragons, so i don't see how that's relevant. You have to have some level of base power to build off of, hers were her dragons, don't see the issue here she'd have very little if any Dothraki following her if her dragons were not born she would have died at the gates of Qarth if she didn't have living dragons as an entrance ticket she would have no Unsullied Army if she didn't have living dragons to bargain with the only time the Targaryan name meant anything was when Illyrio helped house them and arranged the marriage with Khal Drogo after that, it was her dragons, not her name that helped get her to where she is today But you don’t know if she would have acted differently if she didn’t’ have the dragons. Those decisions were made because of the dragons. And the dragons don’t listen to just anyone, they listen to her. She raised them. Saying that she got there because of the dragons is like saying the Tyrion got where is he because was born smart. Or that Jamie would be where he is without his talent with a sword. Or Cerci without her looks. The primary issue is that its easier to overlook that fact with other characters like the lannisters because they are far more complex and entertaining. Jaime is arguably the best character in the series thanks to the fullness of his arc of redemption. Tyrion is generally viewed unfavorably for being an ugly dwarf. But he uses his talents and name given gifts to put himself in the best position he can. Cersei is fucking insane, but she believes herself, Tywin's heir (although Tywin's sister says otherwise). Dany is just overtly arrogant, particularly in the show. How many times this season alone did she mention all her titles/conquer speech? There is no growth or substance.
Everything you just said is personal opinion. I like Dany as a character and her story line of becoming a ruler/leader. It stalls out a bit, but I'm still interested. I don't find her any less compelling than Jamie, Cersei or anyone else.
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EPT
