I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Regarding the TV series, expenses are a pretty big thing for one. Flashy stuff is expensive, simple as that. Its much cheaper to have 2 guys talk in a room instead of CGI castles and trained "direwolves". In the books the direwolves are pretty much always present, but its understandable that they're being showed less in the series.
Besides, I don't necessarily agree that it would be better to have "cool fantasy stuff" just for the sake of it. Take traditional fantasy "magic" for example. It's considered pretty much non-existant in the world of Westeros, but that only makes it more special when we encounter something magical.
On May 17 2011 06:12 Fraidnot wrote:I really don't understand why the story takes place in a fantasy world. We're told that there were dragons that their are shadow cats and people who can change their faces, but we never actually get to see any of that. The one exception is the dire-wolves and honestly they might as well just be regular wolves it would change nothing. Maybe later it'll come into play, but for right now it's a cocktease.
The series never claimed to be high fantasy. What is your complaint here? That some fantasy elements have been hinted at and may or may not be realized?
What's wrong if it's a cocktease? The wonder and attraction of fantasy is lost if you're hit with it all at once and right away.
All at once? Just some would be better then none. I'm not asking for elves and shit, but something more then the occasional blurb that serves only as a: "oh! we've been talking about something not directly relevant to the plot for fifteen minutes, better mention dragons before the audience forgets that this is a fantasy world "
Uh, this series is part of a book series thousands of pages long. The series is set in a fantasy world but that does not necessitate that the story is primarily about dragons or magic or whatever. When fantasy elements are used they are used to further the intrigue and the plot, not to masturbate over superficial fantasy clichés. There is an intentional use of realism in the books, even in how the fantasy elements are described, which helps readers understand the motivations and situations of the people. In other words, I think you miss the point.
By further the intrigue and plot you mean like using dragon names to emphasis an erection?
Are you here to discuss things or just trying to be witty?
Like others said the setting is not "high fantasy", but there are more fantasy elements coming along the way. While the political play could've taken place anywhere, it's not the only thing the series has going on for it. I don't really understand why you think fantasy needs to have all the cliches present to make it relevant.
I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Um, maybe you should read the books. There aren't changing anything. This is how it is in the books. If they started adding weird twists then it's not GoT. Give it time, fantasy elements do appear
It doesn't need weird twists it doesn't need to have crazy stuff. I'm just saying that it needs to be evident by it's self that this is a different world instead of constant reminders to the fact. It's a TV adaptation and that means some changes are necessary. I know, in full detail from this very thread that they're willing to change things about the characters so I don't see why it would be such a big deal to give the fantasy elements a bit more screen time. That's all it would take to add a lot of character to the show.
On May 17 2011 06:12 Fraidnot wrote:I really don't understand why the story takes place in a fantasy world. We're told that there were dragons that their are shadow cats and people who can change their faces, but we never actually get to see any of that. The one exception is the dire-wolves and honestly they might as well just be regular wolves it would change nothing. Maybe later it'll come into play, but for right now it's a cocktease.
The series never claimed to be high fantasy. What is your complaint here? That some fantasy elements have been hinted at and may or may not be realized?
What's wrong if it's a cocktease? The wonder and attraction of fantasy is lost if you're hit with it all at once and right away.
All at once? Just some would be better then none. I'm not asking for elves and shit, but something more then the occasional blurb that serves only as a: "oh! we've been talking about something not directly relevant to the plot for fifteen minutes, better mention dragons before the audience forgets that this is a fantasy world "
Uh, this series is part of a book series thousands of pages long. The series is set in a fantasy world but that does not necessitate that the story is primarily about dragons or magic or whatever. When fantasy elements are used they are used to further the intrigue and the plot, not to masturbate over superficial fantasy clichés. There is an intentional use of realism in the books, even in how the fantasy elements are described, which helps readers understand the motivations and situations of the people. In other words, I think you miss the point.
By further the intrigue and plot you mean like using dragon names to emphasis an erection?
Are you here to discuss things or just trying to be witty?
Like others said the setting is not "high fantasy", but there are more fantasy elements coming along the way. While the political play could've taken place anywhere, it's not the only thing the series has going on for it. I don't really understand why you think fantasy needs to have all the cliches present to make it relevant.
I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Um, maybe you should read the books. There aren't changing anything. This is how it is in the books. If they started adding weird twists then it's not GoT. Give it time, fantasy elements do appear
It doesn't need weird twists it doesn't need to have crazy stuff. I'm just saying that it needs to be evident by it's self that this is a different world instead of constant reminders to the fact. It's a TV adaptation and that means some changes are necessary. I know, in full detail from this very thread that they're willing to change things about the characters so I don't see why it would be such a big deal to give the fantasy elements a bit more screen time. That's all it would take to add a lot of character to the show.
I completely and utterly disagree. If you are watching for 'fantasy elements' then this is NOT the series for you. The lack there-of is actually a major aspect of the world and changing that would entirely ruin an whole feel that the series gives from the books. If it troubles you so much, watch it as a historical drama set in a fictional world instead of fantasy, you won't be seeing any major 'fantasy elements' until the very end of the first book, and then sparingly from then on.
On May 17 2011 08:25 jfourz wrote: night of flowers disappointed me
no cloak of woven flowers gay relation with renly was way over the top, it was meant to be subtle lack of flamboyance
the rest of the episode more than made up for it however. i especially liked jaime
Jaime has really grown on me. The best part of the show imo. At first I was disappointed in how he was almost too masculine, but he handles the subtleties of the character so well.
On May 17 2011 08:25 jfourz wrote: night of flowers disappointed me
no cloak of woven flowers gay relation with renly was way over the top, it was meant to be subtle lack of flamboyance
the rest of the episode more than made up for it however. i especially liked jaime
Jaime has really grown on me. The best part of the show imo. At first I was disappointed in how he was almost too masculine, but he handles the subtleties of the character so well.
I'm surprised the actor playing Jaime is so unknown, he's one of the better actors on the show and a damn handsome guy (no homo).
Who knows, maybe this will be his breakthrough role.
I think we all have to accept the fact, as stated multiple times within this thread, that they are trying to express Game of Thrones in 10 episodes, which while seemingly a nigh impossible task, is going pretty well so far. And then because of this, there are going to be some changes.
As for the fantasy element, remember the opening scene for the series? Dead people moving/coming back to life? White walkers? Like I say to everyone else who hasn't read the book but watches this series, pay attention to EVERYTHING being said. They all have relevance, even if it'll be in a few books or so.
On May 17 2011 06:12 Fraidnot wrote:I really don't understand why the story takes place in a fantasy world. We're told that there were dragons that their are shadow cats and people who can change their faces, but we never actually get to see any of that. The one exception is the dire-wolves and honestly they might as well just be regular wolves it would change nothing. Maybe later it'll come into play, but for right now it's a cocktease.
The series never claimed to be high fantasy. What is your complaint here? That some fantasy elements have been hinted at and may or may not be realized?
What's wrong if it's a cocktease? The wonder and attraction of fantasy is lost if you're hit with it all at once and right away.
All at once? Just some would be better then none. I'm not asking for elves and shit, but something more then the occasional blurb that serves only as a: "oh! we've been talking about something not directly relevant to the plot for fifteen minutes, better mention dragons before the audience forgets that this is a fantasy world "
Uh, this series is part of a book series thousands of pages long. The series is set in a fantasy world but that does not necessitate that the story is primarily about dragons or magic or whatever. When fantasy elements are used they are used to further the intrigue and the plot, not to masturbate over superficial fantasy clichés. There is an intentional use of realism in the books, even in how the fantasy elements are described, which helps readers understand the motivations and situations of the people. In other words, I think you miss the point.
By further the intrigue and plot you mean like using dragon names to emphasis an erection?
Are you here to discuss things or just trying to be witty?
Like others said the setting is not "high fantasy", but there are more fantasy elements coming along the way. While the political play could've taken place anywhere, it's not the only thing the series has going on for it. I don't really understand why you think fantasy needs to have all the cliches present to make it relevant.
I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Um, maybe you should read the books. There aren't changing anything. This is how it is in the books. If they started adding weird twists then it's not GoT. Give it time, fantasy elements do appear
It doesn't need weird twists it doesn't need to have crazy stuff. I'm just saying that it needs to be evident by it's self that this is a different world instead of constant reminders to the fact. It's a TV adaptation and that means some changes are necessary. I know, in full detail from this very thread that they're willing to change things about the characters so I don't see why it would be such a big deal to give the fantasy elements a bit more screen time. That's all it would take to add a lot of character to the show.
I completely and utterly disagree. If you are watching for 'fantasy elements' then this is NOT the series for you. The lack there-of is actually a major aspect of the world and changing that would entirely ruin an whole feel that the series gives from the books. If it troubles you so much, watch it as a historical drama set in a fictional world instead of fantasy, you won't be seeing any major 'fantasy elements' until the very end of the first book, and then sparingly from then on.
If it doesn't need the fantasy element, but still includes it anyways, then that's a problem I would have with the books, but the show is telling me it's fantasy 5 dire wolves for 5 starks, ominous evil force to the north that only pops up every few thousand years. I know I may understand why what is what later, but that doesn't help me out now.
On May 17 2011 06:12 Fraidnot wrote:I really don't understand why the story takes place in a fantasy world. We're told that there were dragons that their are shadow cats and people who can change their faces, but we never actually get to see any of that. The one exception is the dire-wolves and honestly they might as well just be regular wolves it would change nothing. Maybe later it'll come into play, but for right now it's a cocktease.
The series never claimed to be high fantasy. What is your complaint here? That some fantasy elements have been hinted at and may or may not be realized?
What's wrong if it's a cocktease? The wonder and attraction of fantasy is lost if you're hit with it all at once and right away.
All at once? Just some would be better then none. I'm not asking for elves and shit, but something more then the occasional blurb that serves only as a: "oh! we've been talking about something not directly relevant to the plot for fifteen minutes, better mention dragons before the audience forgets that this is a fantasy world "
Uh, this series is part of a book series thousands of pages long. The series is set in a fantasy world but that does not necessitate that the story is primarily about dragons or magic or whatever. When fantasy elements are used they are used to further the intrigue and the plot, not to masturbate over superficial fantasy clichés. There is an intentional use of realism in the books, even in how the fantasy elements are described, which helps readers understand the motivations and situations of the people. In other words, I think you miss the point.
By further the intrigue and plot you mean like using dragon names to emphasis an erection?
Are you here to discuss things or just trying to be witty?
Like others said the setting is not "high fantasy", but there are more fantasy elements coming along the way. While the political play could've taken place anywhere, it's not the only thing the series has going on for it. I don't really understand why you think fantasy needs to have all the cliches present to make it relevant.
I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Um, maybe you should read the books. There aren't changing anything. This is how it is in the books. If they started adding weird twists then it's not GoT. Give it time, fantasy elements do appear
It doesn't need weird twists it doesn't need to have crazy stuff. I'm just saying that it needs to be evident by it's self that this is a different world instead of constant reminders to the fact. It's a TV adaptation and that means some changes are necessary. I know, in full detail from this very thread that they're willing to change things about the characters so I don't see why it would be such a big deal to give the fantasy elements a bit more screen time. That's all it would take to add a lot of character to the show.
The setting of the story is a world in which magic once played an important role but no longer does. If you want them to add a bunch of magic stuff in you might as well ask for steampunk or sci-fi stuff to be thrown in too.
They constantly reinforce that there were dragons but no longer are: the petrified eggs, the iron throne, the skull in the dungeon. There is other stuff that they show but don't directly discuss such as the Wall itself - they say it was constructed thousands of years ago, how do you think that was accomplished? There are tons of other such subtle hints.
They also said "white walkers" hadn't been seen for thousands of years and that dire wolves hadn't been seen south of the wall for generations. And what did they show you in the first episode?
Pay more attention and I think you'll like the show a lot more.
On May 17 2011 08:25 jfourz wrote: night of flowers disappointed me
no cloak of woven flowers gay relation with renly was way over the top, it was meant to be subtle lack of flamboyance
the rest of the episode more than made up for it however. i especially liked jaime
Jaime has really grown on me. The best part of the show imo. At first I was disappointed in how he was almost too masculine, but he handles the subtleties of the character so well.
I'm surprised the actor playing Jaime is so unknown, he's one of the better actors on the show and a damn handsome guy (no homo).
Who knows, maybe this will be his breakthrough role.
I have to agree with you guys, he and Dinklage are the best breakthroughs, Arya best youngster, and I think Sean Bean and Mark Addy as Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon is top-notch casting. As well as bringing in one of the top stars from the Wire. A really great job of casting for 90% of the actors here. Weak parts have to be Sansa and Cerce imo.
On May 17 2011 06:12 Fraidnot wrote:I really don't understand why the story takes place in a fantasy world. We're told that there were dragons that their are shadow cats and people who can change their faces, but we never actually get to see any of that. The one exception is the dire-wolves and honestly they might as well just be regular wolves it would change nothing. Maybe later it'll come into play, but for right now it's a cocktease.
The series never claimed to be high fantasy. What is your complaint here? That some fantasy elements have been hinted at and may or may not be realized?
What's wrong if it's a cocktease? The wonder and attraction of fantasy is lost if you're hit with it all at once and right away.
All at once? Just some would be better then none. I'm not asking for elves and shit, but something more then the occasional blurb that serves only as a: "oh! we've been talking about something not directly relevant to the plot for fifteen minutes, better mention dragons before the audience forgets that this is a fantasy world "
Uh, this series is part of a book series thousands of pages long. The series is set in a fantasy world but that does not necessitate that the story is primarily about dragons or magic or whatever. When fantasy elements are used they are used to further the intrigue and the plot, not to masturbate over superficial fantasy clichés. There is an intentional use of realism in the books, even in how the fantasy elements are described, which helps readers understand the motivations and situations of the people. In other words, I think you miss the point.
By further the intrigue and plot you mean like using dragon names to emphasis an erection?
Are you here to discuss things or just trying to be witty?
Like others said the setting is not "high fantasy", but there are more fantasy elements coming along the way. While the political play could've taken place anywhere, it's not the only thing the series has going on for it. I don't really understand why you think fantasy needs to have all the cliches present to make it relevant.
I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Um, maybe you should read the books. There aren't changing anything. This is how it is in the books. If they started adding weird twists then it's not GoT. Give it time, fantasy elements do appear
It doesn't need weird twists it doesn't need to have crazy stuff. I'm just saying that it needs to be evident by it's self that this is a different world instead of constant reminders to the fact. It's a TV adaptation and that means some changes are necessary. I know, in full detail from this very thread that they're willing to change things about the characters so I don't see why it would be such a big deal to give the fantasy elements a bit more screen time. That's all it would take to add a lot of character to the show.
The setting of the story is a world in which magic once played an important role but no longer does. If you want them to add a bunch of magic stuff in you might as well ask for steampunk or sci-fi stuff to be thrown in too.
They constantly reinforce that there were dragons but no longer are: the petrified eggs, the iron throne, the skull in the dungeon. There is other stuff that they show but don't directly discuss such as the Wall itself - they say it was constructed thousands of years ago, how do you think that was accomplished? There are tons of other such subtle hints.
They also said "white walkers" hadn't been seen for thousands of years and that dire wolves hadn't been seen south of the wall for generations. And what did they show you in the first episode?
Pay more attention and I think you'll like the show a lot more.
I see it after you say it, "a world in which magic once played an important role but no longer does" that's an eye opener to me, but I wasn't getting that clear message from the show.
On May 17 2011 07:46 Fraidnot wrote: I'm just saying they're not taking advantage of what's available to fully develop the setting or make things a bit more interesting. They talk about it, but they don't show it. I have said I'm not looking for fantasy cliches(elves and shit), but if it's a set in a fantasy world. They should show it.
Well, maybe they should -- now bear with me, this is just an idea -- maybe they should show it when we get to that part of the series.
As you will find more and more, and has already been stated (this is no spoiler) the world has been moving farther and farther from a fantasy setting as time went on, at least in Westros (the main continent we see the story in). The mention of White Walkers is noted as last seen thousand(s) of years ago. Dragons started to die off in the past century or more with the last few dieing somewhat recently but only the size of dogs.
The history and lore of the world is very much so a fantasy setting but "todays" Westeros is a world of man and castles, not much more in the current episodes we have seen.
On May 17 2011 08:25 jfourz wrote: night of flowers disappointed me
no cloak of woven flowers gay relation with renly was way over the top, it was meant to be subtle lack of flamboyance
the rest of the episode more than made up for it however. i especially liked jaime
Having read books 1-3, just started book 4, I missed all the subtlety of Renly and Loras being gay for each other. Like no joke I dunno if someone can find where in the book the subtlety hint at it but if i didn't catch it while reading "A Game of Thrones" I can't imagine someone picking up on it in a 10 episode long series. Pretty sure they needed to be as blatant as they were...MAYBE not the part of the BJ i guess. I mean i got the point from their talking. Didn't need the pants unlaced to figure it out from there.
EPT
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