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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On April 16 2014 04:50 Redox wrote: There is also a GoT mod for Crusader Kings. Dunno how good it is though. its pretty good, the map is westoros + essos, its quiet epic. there's a mod that extracted the dragon + valyrian part to be used with original ck2 (europe), i prefer that one. | ||
KwarK
United States43991 Posts
On April 15 2014 23:29 ZasZ. wrote: It's pretty customary in these situations for a parent of the underaged monarch to act as regent until they come of age. With the way succession works, because Margaery didn't have time to have any children with Joffrey, she is nothing now. Tommen is King, and Cersei will most likely be his regent like she was for Joffrey, but people may resist her a little more on that front this time around. Margaery acting as Queen Regent for Tommen would seem a little strange to you, wouldn't it? When he came of age, what would happen? An unmarried King/Queen on the Iron Throne? Or Margaery being forced to step down? There are countless historical examples of the betrothed Queen being married to the new King upon the death of the brother if the marriage had not been consummated. Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon is just one such example of this. If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her. Deuteronomy 25:5 KJB By medieval feudal tradition, albeit sourced in the Bible, Margaery would become the wife of the new king. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
I imagine the Lannisters would probably prefer having Cercei running things, and they do have a firm grasp on King's Landing. I'm really wondering how it'll play out though, because the Tyrells clearly have something in mind and Olenna seems to competent to have done all this for nothing, so I don't expect Margaery to be discarded by the Lannisters too easily. I don't imagine that the plans of the Tyrells is to bring back Stannis, which would be counter productive to their family's interests (unless I missed something). Plus I guess with Tommen being right there and surrounded by Lannisters, that'd be impossible to pull off... So it leaves Margaery with enough power to annoy the Lannisters, as she rules with Tommen being too young to really do anything. I expect an interesting power struggle between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. Wonder if it'll turn violent. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On April 16 2014 07:28 Djzapz wrote: I think that it seems likely that it's the Tyrells who poisoned Joffrey (otherwise there is much misdirection going around in the show). If so, I can't imagine that they would do it out of the goodness of their heart. Obviously, they expect to have some kind of grasp on King's landing. I might be mistaken, but Margaery has more power than Cercei now, as she'd be Queen regent when waiting for the closest thing the Baratheons have to a heir, so that'd be Tommen. If we compare it to medieval europe, a queen that got widowed with no heir is a nobody (power wise). Especially one that has been married for only a few hours. She is only a Tyrell once again and has no grasp over power. Usually regency are often assured by the mothers and/or other family members (uncles), a few times it has been another powerful family with ties to the previous monarch. The most logical regency in that case would be Tywin. He's the patriarch of the house, grandfather of King Tommen, a man respected and feared. There is no other logical person. Edit: However as someone pointed out, it is a distinct possibility that Margaery will be betrothed to Tommen but she wouldn't be regent anyway. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 16 2014 08:06 rezoacken wrote: If we compare it to medieval europe, a queen that got widowed with no heir is a nobody (power wise). Especially one that has been married for only a few hours. She is only a Tyrell once again and has no grasp over power. Usually regency are often assured by the mothers and/or other family members (uncles), a few times it has been another powerful family with ties to the previous monarch. The most logical regency in that case would be Tywin. He's the patriarch of the house, grandfather of King Tommen, a man respected and feared. There is no other logical person. Edit: However as someone pointed out, it is a distinct possibility that Margaery will be betrothed to Tommen but she wouldn't be regent anyway. Well I don't know much about medieval Europe and I don't really know how it works in GoT, but I know that there are multiple ways in which successions happen. I think that Anglo-Saxon England, the Frankish Empire and the empire of the Kievian Rus all had very different traditions. Tywin is clearly not interested in being the main figurehead of the kingdom, so it seems to me like Cercei would want to take it, but I can't imagine that the Tyrells would've poisoned the king only to immediately lose their grasp of the power. Edit: However as someone pointed out, it is a distinct possibility that Margaery will be betrothed to Tommen but she wouldn't be regent anyway. Well I guess I'm clearly out of my depth if that's how it works  . Maybe the Tyrells are playing the long game then. I just kind of assumed that Margeary was going to have some power and that was the whole point for the Tyrells. | ||
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CatfooD
United States203 Posts
If you have book knowledge don't vote so it doesn't corrupt the results! Poll: Who do you think killed Joffrey!? Ollena Tyrell (12) Petyr Baelish "Littlefinger" (10) Oberyn Martell (9) Joffrey choked himself (8) Cercei Lannister (4) Tywin Lannister (4) Sansa Stark (3) Tyrion Lannister (3) Brienne of Tarth (3) Ser Dontos "Florian" (The Fool) (3) Shae (1) Varys "The Spider" (1) Stannis Baratheon/ Mellisandre (1) Ser Loras Tyrell (1) King's Guard Members (1) Margaery Tyrell (0) Jaime Lannister (0) 64 total votes Your vote: Who do you think killed Joffrey!? (Vote): Tywin Lannister | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
I'm sure in the next episode we'll see that he had telekinetic powers this whole time. | ||
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CatfooD
United States203 Posts
On April 16 2014 09:29 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: ^ Where is the option for Hodor?! I'm sure in the next episode we'll see that he had telekinetic powers this whole time. I seriously considered adding Hodor, but I wanted to create an accurate representation of what TL'ers think, haha. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
Also i thought the top bit of the cake was like just that bird release thing, like there would be something covering the cake than have the fake bird trap cake bit on top, (birds in a enclosed enviroment probably shitting all over the place) I wonder if its tywin who kill joffery, at first i thought it was lady olenna with that whole neckalce theory people had going, but now reading some other peoples theories i like the one about like tywin doing it so hes can like do the whole king of the hand is ruling in place. plus he didnt seem surprised at all when joffery died or even look like he gave a shit. Also whats was with the bran vision, they showed this man in a big cloak (kinda like crow??? clothing) and it looked like he commanded a ton of ravens the same ones that attack/warned? sam about that white walker. (also whats with those creep tree faces i remember one of them being in winterfell and hodor running past it with his penis failing. Is the guy from the vision meant to be under the tree (starting to remind me of the eragon series with that sword/ore under the tree LOL) more arya please (i heard it was her birthday a few days ago too) i cant wait till she gets to that assassin city w/e its called the one who the facechanger told her about | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 16 2014 10:00 CatfooD wrote: I seriously considered adding Hodor, but I wanted to create an accurate representation of what TL'ers think, haha. Good luck with that 18% say he choked himself (so damn hard his eyes started to bleed and he turned purple in seconds) | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 16 2014 10:25 Djzapz wrote: Good luck with that 18% say he choked himself (so damn hard his eyes started to bleed and he turned purple in seconds) It was clearly Syrio Forell. | ||
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CatfooD
United States203 Posts
On April 16 2014 10:25 Djzapz wrote:18% say he choked himself (so damn hard his eyes started to bleed and he turned purple in seconds) I didn't realize how that came off. I meant to suggest that he legitimately choked on the cake or wine without poison. Now people are voting that he purposefully choked to death, pfft. There's no way to remove that option without remaking the poll I presume? Oh well. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
1) Our current plane is "hell" 2) Escape from this plane is desirable 3) Fire is the purest death 4) There is an effort to purify oneself of all evil, so that one is readied to pass on, but this can even be in the very act of death. 5) The Fire God is opposed by another god, described as a Darkness God 6) The Night is Dark and full of terrors We may go on to infer that the Darkness God has some relation to this world, probably as its creator. All the new information goes to push our understanding of this religion away from seeing this as Crystal Dragon Islam, and toward seeing it as a Crystal Dragon Manichaeism. Manichaeism is a first millenium religion that blended Christianity, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Platonism and Gnostic elements to propose a strict dualism manifested both in the divine (good god, bad god) and the world (good spiritual world, bad material world). For an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On April 16 2014 10:47 Yoav wrote: So, while it's easy to get distracted by the murder mystery, we also got some interesting information this episode on the Fire God. A few distinct theological statements we've heard so far about this religion: 1) Our current plane is "hell" 2) Escape from this plane is desirable 3) Fire is the purest death 4) There is an effort to purify oneself of all evil, so that one is readied to pass on, but this can even be in the very act of death. 5) The Fire God is opposed by another god, described as a Darkness God 6) The Night is Dark and full of terrors We may go on to infer that the Darkness God has some relation to this world, probably as its creator. All the new information goes to push our understanding of this religion away from seeing this as Crystal Dragon Islam, and toward seeing it as a Crystal Dragon Manichaeism. Manichaeism is a first millenium religion that blended Christianity, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Platonism and Gnostic elements to propose a strict dualism manifested both in the divine (good god, bad god) and the world (good spiritual world, bad material world). For an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism Here's the S3 Lore video for the Lord of Light for some more info. As always, the comments MAY be dark and full of spoilers, if you visit the youtube page. I don't see one for this (currently), but care. Also, I would argue that it's much more Zoroastrian, which is where the Abrahamic religions and Manchiaeism derives its moral dualism between good and evil; a god of good and creation in an eternal struggle against an anti-thesis god of evil, with humanity playing an active role in the struggle. Heck, Zoroastrians have fire temples as their place of worship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup-bearer Also, they didn't seem to have any food tasters checking the cake before the king ate it. I understand that food testers were quite indispensable for kings in those days. | ||
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Discarder
Philippines411 Posts
Oberyn Martell should become a high probability suspect. Oberyn is also called the Red Viper. How does a Viper, kill its prey? With poison right? History: In s04e01, he already made it clear that he wants Tywin Lannister and Gregor Clegane to answer for the deaths of Elia of Dorne (her sister) and her children in the Sack of King's Landing. If he indeed assassinated Joffrey, then we could say that it is getting back at house lannister. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:55 Ghost-z wrote: I still think the poison was in the pie. The dead birds seem to foreshadow this and the only person seen eating the pie is Joeffrey. Tywin is shown playing with some pie on his fork but he never actually eats it on screen. i also thinks its in the pie my theory is that it must have been poisoned by the queen / that old lady. notice how the queen feeds him the pie but doesn't eat any herself in most situations, for anyone else to have poisoned either the wine or the pie, would mean to risk randomly poisoning the queen or perhaps someone else. that would be pretty pointless if they have an intended target (joffrey) | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Besides, wouldn't it be very easy for Tywin to kill him some other way anyways? | ||
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