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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 15 2014 23:29 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:15 Mikau wrote:On April 15 2014 21:11 urboss wrote:On April 15 2014 20:48 Mikau wrote:On April 15 2014 16:06 urboss wrote:On April 15 2014 01:38 Yoav wrote:
Okay, so a lot of speculation that the Tyrells did it. But if Westeros is following usual western Europe succession rules:
1) Younger brother (Tommen?) is now king, though under the age of maturity and therefore using a regent.
2) Queen SarahConnor/Gorgia probably goes back to being regent, but it does depend on regency laws, which vary. Tywin probably gets to pick if there is any picking.
3) Tywin remains Hand (based on Ned Stark remaining hand even after a succession, until removal from the role).
4) Margery becomes a whole lot of nothing. Maybe keeps a Princess title, or some other ceremonial title, depending on how they hand those out, but no technical power whatsoever. I really don't see what she would gain from the marriage. Marriage doesn't make queens co-rulers under Westerosi law... they're just consorts. And even then, we were told earlier on in this show that consumation is necessary to count as a proper marriage. Only case I can imagine is if they want a marriage with Tommen (same deal, less insanity), and wanted to kill Joff before consumation so Westerosi incest laws don't prohibit the marriage (and allow them to avoid a Catherine of Aragon style mess).
5) Balon Greyjoy would do well to turn down wedding invitations for the forseeable future. So why would Lady Olenna want to kill the king, if her granddaughter Margaery doesn't gain anything from it? Is she plotting against her own granddaughter? They made it abundantly clear that the crown/Lannisters can't afford everything that's going on and the oncoming winter (at least, that's what I'd guess the significance was of all the time spent discussing splitting the bill of the wedding and how much is owed the Iron Bank of Braavos). The Lannisters still need both the money and army of the Tyrells. Ok, King Joffrey is dead. Tommen is the new King, but he is underaged. That means, for a couple more years, Cersei will be the Queen Regent. How do the Tyrell fit into this picture? You are saying that the Lannisters need the Tyrell because of money, which makes sense. However, are the Lannisters going to give up the throne just because of those money issues? What's stopping the Tyrells from withdrawing their support if Cersei was straight up made queen regent? Why would Cersei even be the most logical candidate for the job if Margaery was just made queen? It's pretty customary in these situations for a parent of the underaged monarch to act as regent until they come of age. With the way succession works, because Margaery didn't have time to have any children with Joffrey, she is nothing now. Tommen is King, and Cersei will most likely be his regent like she was for Joffrey, but people may resist her a little more on that front this time around. Margaery acting as Queen Regent for Tommen would seem a little strange to you, wouldn't it? When he came of age, what would happen? An unmarried King/Queen on the Iron Throne? Or Margaery being forced to step down?
They still have to placate the Tyrells, and naming Cersei queen regent won't placate them. The Lannisters need the Tyrells and the Tyrells know it.
I agree it would have been easier to do this after Joffrey got Margaery pregnant, but then you'd have children of Joffrey's running around and I could see why the Tyrells wouldn't want that. Ofcourse assuming they are the ones to poison Joffrey.
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On April 16 2014 01:38 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Is it just me who has Bran as their most hated. I don't know what it is about him, but I can't stand his story line and every scene he's in. Like, Joffrey, Ramsey, Theon etc are all bad people but at least they're interesting bad people. Melisandre is probably my second most hated.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd sooner hang out with Bran than most of the characters in GoT. But non-Bran characters dying just means I probably have to sit through more three eyed raven Hodor nonsense.
Hate bran. Let the little shit die soon.
Also there is just WAY WAY WAY too much theorycrafting about this poison shit. How about we talk about how awesome the episode was and wait to see what happens instead? D:
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It's a catch-22, everyone wants to know who-dun-it but nobody wants spoilered.
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On April 16 2014 02:39 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:29 ZasZ. wrote:On April 15 2014 23:15 Mikau wrote:On April 15 2014 21:11 urboss wrote:On April 15 2014 20:48 Mikau wrote:On April 15 2014 16:06 urboss wrote:On April 15 2014 01:38 Yoav wrote:
Okay, so a lot of speculation that the Tyrells did it. But if Westeros is following usual western Europe succession rules:
1) Younger brother (Tommen?) is now king, though under the age of maturity and therefore using a regent.
2) Queen SarahConnor/Gorgia probably goes back to being regent, but it does depend on regency laws, which vary. Tywin probably gets to pick if there is any picking.
3) Tywin remains Hand (based on Ned Stark remaining hand even after a succession, until removal from the role).
4) Margery becomes a whole lot of nothing. Maybe keeps a Princess title, or some other ceremonial title, depending on how they hand those out, but no technical power whatsoever. I really don't see what she would gain from the marriage. Marriage doesn't make queens co-rulers under Westerosi law... they're just consorts. And even then, we were told earlier on in this show that consumation is necessary to count as a proper marriage. Only case I can imagine is if they want a marriage with Tommen (same deal, less insanity), and wanted to kill Joff before consumation so Westerosi incest laws don't prohibit the marriage (and allow them to avoid a Catherine of Aragon style mess).
5) Balon Greyjoy would do well to turn down wedding invitations for the forseeable future. So why would Lady Olenna want to kill the king, if her granddaughter Margaery doesn't gain anything from it? Is she plotting against her own granddaughter? They made it abundantly clear that the crown/Lannisters can't afford everything that's going on and the oncoming winter (at least, that's what I'd guess the significance was of all the time spent discussing splitting the bill of the wedding and how much is owed the Iron Bank of Braavos). The Lannisters still need both the money and army of the Tyrells. Ok, King Joffrey is dead. Tommen is the new King, but he is underaged. That means, for a couple more years, Cersei will be the Queen Regent. How do the Tyrell fit into this picture? You are saying that the Lannisters need the Tyrell because of money, which makes sense. However, are the Lannisters going to give up the throne just because of those money issues? What's stopping the Tyrells from withdrawing their support if Cersei was straight up made queen regent? Why would Cersei even be the most logical candidate for the job if Margaery was just made queen? It's pretty customary in these situations for a parent of the underaged monarch to act as regent until they come of age. With the way succession works, because Margaery didn't have time to have any children with Joffrey, she is nothing now. Tommen is King, and Cersei will most likely be his regent like she was for Joffrey, but people may resist her a little more on that front this time around. Margaery acting as Queen Regent for Tommen would seem a little strange to you, wouldn't it? When he came of age, what would happen? An unmarried King/Queen on the Iron Throne? Or Margaery being forced to step down? They still have to placate the Tyrells, and naming Cersei queen regent won't placate them. The Lannisters need the Tyrells and the Tyrells know it. I agree it would have been easier to do this after Joffrey got Margaery pregnant, but then you'd have children of Joffrey's running around and I could see why the Tyrells wouldn't want that. Ofcourse assuming they are the ones to poison Joffrey.
And I'll add this: I don't know who poisoned Joffrey, but literally everybody had something to gain by his death (apart from maybe Cersei, who loved him despite him being a cunt).
The Lannisters (namely Tywin) now get a far more sensible and easier to control king, the Tyrells don't get a weaker position (though not a stronger one either) while getting rid of a threat to Margaery . Oberyn/Sansa got revenge, Littlefinger created more chaos, Varys gets a king who is better for the realm. Literally everybody potentially involved has motive for killing Joffrey
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So many people base their thery around Cercei getting married would make her husband king. That aint happening. If anything Gendry is the heir to the throne right?
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On April 16 2014 02:59 Spykiller wrote:
So many people base their thery around Cercei getting married would make her husband king. That aint happening. If anything Gendry is the heir to the throne right?
wasn't that guy dead last season ?
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On April 16 2014 02:59 Spykiller wrote:
So many people base their thery around Cercei getting married would make her husband king. That aint happening. If anything Gendry is the heir to the throne right?
Bastards have no rights to anything. That's what the Bolton bastard has been told just last episode.
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Why does Oberyn get revenge? Sure Joffrey was a part(publically) Lannister, but he had nothing to do with Oberyn's sister.
Didn't Tywin order the death of Oberyn's sister? That means he's probably after Tywin, what I don't get how he can restrain himself when he's in his presence. He doesn't seem the sort of person who would do things stealthily as well, he's just really in your face kind of a guy.
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He's said he wants all Lannisters dead. Killing Joffrey is a start.
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I opened the spoiler pyramid, and now life is ruined 
Just kidding! The spoiler just says + Show Spoiler +
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On April 16 2014 02:47 Ghost-z wrote:
It's a catch-22, everyone wants to know who-dun-it but nobody wants spoilered.
You can't have your cake and eat it too 
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On April 15 2014 23:54 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:42 Mensol wrote:and about Theon, even thought he was a dick, i felt bad for him Well, he's definitely not a dick anymore..
Of course, he dont have a dick anymore
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wanted joeffrey to lose his head or in some way die like the ones he indirectly killed. or atleast to suffer and reflect abit on what he did. whatevs.
still hes dead which is a good start.
blondie is totally going nuts and the next on the "has to die pls" list. hope tyrion is well tho., also want to see more of arya, little girl is on a good way to become either totally fucked up or the biggest badass around.
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On April 15 2014 06:43 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 06:08 LoLAdriankat wrote:On April 15 2014 05:52 Serek wrote:On April 15 2014 04:09 Raneth wrote:
Neither of them have rights, surely the throne is now the queen regents, (margeries) as she married joffery and became queen, the throne will then pass to her first born. Dont forget the wedding actually took place, that has changed who is in line for what, those lannister kids shouldnt really even be in the pecking. This is not how succession works. Siblings of the king go first. Seriously. Y'all need to play some Crusader Kings 2. i think iron throne goes by Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture by ck2 standards. male priority king's -> son -> daughter -> brother -> sister -> father -> mother then to king's brother's son then repeat. i love ck2 
And, importantly, (not really here, but for succession nerds), it iterates, ignoring death for lines of succession.
So if Joff had a son, he would be king. But also if Joff had a grandson, and his son were dead, the grandson would be king irrespective of any brothers, sisters, mothers, etc. kicking around.
Also, I was posting in this thread last night, then spent the rest of it playing CK2... such a baller game.
On April 15 2014 16:06 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 01:38 Yoav wrote:
4) Margery becomes a whole lot of nothing. Maybe keeps a Princess title, or some other ceremonial title, depending on how they hand those out, but no technical power whatsoever. I really don't see what she would gain from the marriage. Marriage doesn't make queens co-rulers under Westerosi law... they're just consorts. And even then, we were told earlier on in this show that consumation is necessary to count as a proper marriage. Only case I can imagine is if they want a marriage with Tommen (same deal, less insanity), and wanted to kill Joff before consumation so Westerosi incest laws don't prohibit the marriage (and allow them to avoid a Catherine of Aragon style mess). So why would Lady Olenna want to kill the king, if her granddaughter Margaery doesn't gain anything from it? Is she plotting against her own granddaughter?
Well, if I had to put a theory together, I'd say the Tyrells *might* have done it in order to get Marge married to a Lannister who isn't Joff. So you kill Joff after getting married, but before the consummation (so incest rules don't apply) and use the necessity of the alliance to get the Lannisters to agree to marry Tommen to Marge when he's of age. Or, in service of the alliance, they get either the Hand job (smirk) or the Regent job.
But I still think Tywin had the best reasons to kill Joff, and he's just ruthless enough that he might have, in spite of everything. His life would be a lot easier, and his bloodline a lot safer, if he did away with Joffery.
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On April 16 2014 04:37 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 06:43 jinorazi wrote:On April 15 2014 06:08 LoLAdriankat wrote:On April 15 2014 05:52 Serek wrote:On April 15 2014 04:09 Raneth wrote:
Neither of them have rights, surely the throne is now the queen regents, (margeries) as she married joffery and became queen, the throne will then pass to her first born. Dont forget the wedding actually took place, that has changed who is in line for what, those lannister kids shouldnt really even be in the pecking. This is not how succession works. Siblings of the king go first. Seriously. Y'all need to play some Crusader Kings 2. i think iron throne goes by Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture by ck2 standards. male priority king's -> son -> daughter -> brother -> sister -> father -> mother then to king's brother's son then repeat. i love ck2 And, importantly, (not really here, but for succession nerds), it iterates, ignoring death for lines of succession. So if Joff had a son, he would be king. But also if Joff had a grandson, and his son were dead, the grandson would be king irrespective of any brothers, sisters, mothers, etc. kicking around. Also, I was posting in this thread last night, then spent the rest of it playing CK2... such a baller game.
There is also a GoT mod for Crusader Kings. Dunno how good it is though.
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Is it just me who has Bran as their most hated. I don't know what it is about him, but I can't stand his story line and every scene he's in. Like, Joffrey, Ramsey, Theon etc are all bad people but at least they're interesting bad people. Melisandre is probably my second most hated.
Agree, Bran's are the most boringest scenes in the show.
I like Melisandre, tho
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On April 16 2014 04:53 Sejanus wrote:Show nested quote +
Is it just me who has Bran as their most hated. I don't know what it is about him, but I can't stand his story line and every scene he's in. Like, Joffrey, Ramsey, Theon etc are all bad people but at least they're interesting bad people. Melisandre is probably my second most hated.
Agree, Bran's are the most boringest scenes in the show. I like Melisandre, tho
He only has very short scenes though, so I dont see it as much of a problem. Personally I dislike watching Dany more.
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On April 16 2014 04:53 Sejanus wrote:Show nested quote +
Is it just me who has Bran as their most hated. I don't know what it is about him, but I can't stand his story line and every scene he's in. Like, Joffrey, Ramsey, Theon etc are all bad people but at least they're interesting bad people. Melisandre is probably my second most hated.
Agree, Bran's are the most boringest scenes in the show. I like Melisandre, tho
I didn't like Melisandre initially, and I don't think her personality is very likeable for a lot of people. But now, I'm admiring what she does more and more, she seems like an interesting character, and this Lord of Light thing seems to have an interesting dynamic, something similar to the Spanish Inquisition.
Bran, I feel like he will definitely play an impact, but I do agree that as an actor he doesn't seem too great. And it's really hard to be interested because we have no idea what significance he will later play. Maybe once/if he gets behind the wall as they are planning, it will become more interesting. Either way, his powers are coming out more and more, and soon we might see him do some cool stuff.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Melisandre is incredibly hott. That's enough to want to watch her imoimo.
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EPT
