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Lol I was just about to say it seems one timeline is indefensible. Two is too few as well.
As in, the scenes are clearly not presented in chronological order. This episode was mostly in-park though, so probably closer to chronological, but the base scenes are clearly spread out over a much longer timescale than the in-park scenes, which appear to be set over the length of a single park cycle (week? fortnight? month?). Though, again, we know the MiB is currently in a different cycle than Dolores due to him killing people who are still alive in her universe.
The "dreams" are as-yet unknown in how they fit into the cycles, though this episode strongly suggested they are perceived as dreams non-chronologically (that it, there was no way for Dolores to have had that conversation in chronological sequence, and yet she appeared to react to it that way).
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I mean sure i am not saying that every scene is in order, especially the interrogation scenes are hard to justify that way.
But "two timelines" as in the MiB is one of the two young guys we follow? Nah no way.
edit: to say it differently: In the end it won't matter at all and all the time you invest in trying to figure out the right chronology will be wasted. The only thing of importantance is Arnold and what happened there exactly
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Starting to lose interest in this show. The obnoxious time looping is getting to me.
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i would like to see the show explain more guest vs. guest interactions (can guests kill each other?)
and, host's maximum ability to hurt guests, as you saw Logan get punched by 2 soldiers - maybe enough punches can kill?
and finally, i'd like them to explain where the hell is the actual location - if it's an actual themepark, how big of a space is it, how is it connected to the facility, how do they manage to pickup all the hosts at night and transport them for testing / healing
It's also confusing how guests seem to stay there 24/7 - what about their food needs? is there actual food in the park? do they actually sleep, shit, all in the park?
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On November 01 2016 15:00 parkufarku wrote:
i would like to see the show explain more guest vs. guest interactions (can guests kill each other?)
and, host's maximum ability to hurt guests, as you saw Logan get punched by 2 soldiers - maybe enough punches can kill?
and finally, i'd like them to explain where the hell is the actual location - if it's an actual themepark, how big of a space is it, how is it connected to the facility, how do they manage to pickup all the hosts at night and transport them for testing / healing
It's also confusing how guests seem to stay there 24/7 - what about their food needs? is there actual food in the park? do they actually sleep, shit, all in the park?
The guests can definitely kill each other, I would guess that hosts will generally stop guests from brandishing any weapon besides their gun, although they don't seem to stop guests who push or grab each other. It's not clear what the hosts would do if a guest was accidentally hurt, like twisting an ankle when running or falling off a horse.
I think the show has alluded to some kind of monorail taking them to the park, so I would guess several square kilometers. For reference, Disneyland is .344 km2 and there seem to be far fewer people at Westworld, although it also seems that the vast majority of the park goes unused.
The last questions are really good. I actually wonder if time is accelerated there because the guests are never shown going to sleep. A real day might be a week in Westworld because the sun rises and sets every 2 hours or something. Food is a curious question since the guests so far have only been shown drinking, mostly liquor but sometimes water.
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I think the idea is to make it as safe as possible for the guests (guns hit them like BBs, probably whether or not a host fired them), but a guest could probably kill another guest with a knife, if no host is around to stop them (like Teddy stopped MiB). Maybe they're programmed to avoid guests being off on their own too much.
I'm assuming days/nights are realistic, as are needs like food/water and it's just handled as it was in the Old West, except maybe with flush toilets. The immersion seems to be key to the experience and it would be weird for them to be breaking it.
Size of the park is a good question. It's hard to know for sure at this point, but it seems massive. The resources of the society that built it must be unbelievable. I'm personally curious what exactly the boundary is. Wall? Invisible fence? Canyon? Raging river? Mountains?
My logistical question is about the hosts. Ep1 referenced 10% of the population as 200 hosts... but Pariah appears to be on a scale to require more than that alone, never mind the rest of the world. And if there's a "war" of any scale going on elsewhere, that exacerbates the problem further.
Edit: From the show website's "liability waiver:"
The following causes of accidental death have occurred within the Delos Destinations compound: buffalo stampede, self- cannibalism, accidental hanging, drowning, 3rd-degree burns, autoerotic asphyxiation, blunt force trauma, allergic reaction to non-native plant life, falling from great heights, common manslaughter, tumbleweeds.
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Also, the show website includes this image:
+ Show Spoiler +
Which suggests a park diameter of 18km, which is fucking huge. Note that the version on the site has links floating above it for points of interest like the towns and ranches.
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On October 31 2016 22:30 Yoav wrote:
Lol I was just about to say it seems one timeline is indefensible. Two is too few as well.
As in, the scenes are clearly not presented in chronological order. This episode was mostly in-park though, so probably closer to chronological, but the base scenes are clearly spread out over a much longer timescale than the in-park scenes, which appear to be set over the length of a single park cycle (week? fortnight? month?). Though, again, we know the MiB is currently in a different cycle than Dolores due to him killing people who are still alive in her universe.
The "dreams" are as-yet unknown in how they fit into the cycles, though this episode strongly suggested they are perceived as dreams non-chronologically (that it, there was no way for Dolores to have had that conversation in chronological sequence, and yet she appeared to react to it that way).
Multiple timelines seem obvious at this point, I got to agree. The people around the Man in Black and William are both confronted with different Westworld Logos, they witness slight deviations in how loops start and they never actually hear from each other.
The question remains how far apart these timelines actually are (and how many there are). I would argue it cannot be more than a few days/weeks/months, maybe a year, because the Man in Black and William/Logan meet the same kind of hosts. And we know that the Hosts in the past have been more mechanical than "today".
Plus, we can assume that the Man in Black is in Westworld before William/Logan are, because Dolores remembers being raped by the Man in Black when she shoots someone for the first time.
On October 31 2016 22:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I mean sure i am not saying that every scene is in order, especially the interrogation scenes are hard to justify that way.
But "two timelines" as in the MiB is one of the two young guys we follow? Nah no way.
edit: to say it differently: In the end it won't matter at all and all the time you invest in trying to figure out the right chronology will be wasted. The only thing of importantance is Arnold and what happened there exactly
Well, fact remains that the creators tried quite hard to not make it too obvious that there are multiple timelines (at least up until episode 5. Now it is more than obvious due to the happenings surrounding Lawrence). If it just didn't matter, they could just have told us by giving a date of arrival. The fact that they didn't do that kind of hints that it actually does matter, imo.
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One of those shows where mysterious intrigue is the driving factor but I'm having a hard time actually being intrigued by it...
Add in all the questions about exactly how stuff works logistically/technically and it's not even a world I can understand let alone care about.
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On November 01 2016 15:00 parkufarku wrote:
It's also confusing how guests seem to stay there 24/7 - what about their food needs? is there actual food in the park? do they actually sleep, shit, all in the park?
There have been scenes where people were eating and clearly waking up or going to sleep. Not gonna even comment on the shitting part.
The comments here and the subreddit are all about the small details and wacky theories. It feels like the story, characters and overall feel of the show is second to all this craziness surrounding it.
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My crazy theory is that the maze is a role reversal, that Dolores is now the guest and the humans around her are the hosts. The robots who accompany humans into the maze become the central actors of the story rather than creating the context of the story like usual, also liberating them from their infinite loops. Dolores is no longer a hapless rape victim and Teddy is no longer the tragically doomed gunslinger.
I think the diagnostics are at the end of this journey after having memories and experiences of creating a new story and asking them if they can go back to being props again in an infinite loop. They ironically face the same choice that every human guest faces when they leave the park and go back to their mundane lives.
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So.. I'm sorry this is lazy post but IS IT ANY GOOD? Can anyone tell at this point? A few episodes are out now. Should I watch it if I like GoT and all kinds of scifi space operas but find westerns kinda meh? The cast is pretty insane at least. And there are boobz?
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On October 31 2016 13:55 coverpunch wrote:
I get that a character like Dolores has a loop where she just goes out and then comes back home if nothing happens, so she doesn't need daily maintenance. But do these crazy maze-related stories just go unresolved if nobody interacts with them, as is almost always the case?
All the story lines have end games like Dolores and her family getting slaughtered at night at their house on a regular basis and then resetting. The MIB makes it seem like the maze related story is really hidden deep and resolves in non-maze related ways without guest interactions.
It seems that MIB got his life time pass by killing Arnold, or at least helping stop him from destroying the park. My guess is that the maze is somewhere that Ford has no control over the androids because of actions of Arnold.
From a strictly "realistic" standpoint the most unrealistic part of the show is the economy of developing and maintaining this park and paying for it. It's hard to see any way that it could ever turn a profit or even see the funding to be completed in the first place. The guests make it seem that these androids are not a part of life outside of the park, where they realistically would be used for all sorts of more profitable jobs with the only limitation on what job they could take over being how much the android costs vs paying a real person. And most of those jobs wouldn't require rebuilding them on a consistent basis.
Still I enjoy the show a lot over all.
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^ what? If anything, it's difficult to see the park not making a profit. Each guest pays $40,000 a day. I dont know who has that kind of money except millionaires, but if you're getting that much from 1 person, imagine how much you would earn per day.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Didn't Logan mention the company behind it hemorrhaging money?
When I saw 2nd lawrence I actually thought they just had multiples of the same android... but timelines make more sense.
I cant remember but when dolores got asked about her last contact with arnold, what number did she say? Because MiB always says hes been coming for 30 years right?
So possibly the difference could be the answer to how far apart they are.
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On November 02 2016 02:52 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I cant remember but when dolores got asked about her last contact with arnold, what number did she say?
34 years, 42 days, 7 hours
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On November 01 2016 21:54 d00p wrote:
So.. I'm sorry this is lazy post but IS IT ANY GOOD? Can anyone tell at this point? A few episodes are out now. Should I watch it if I like GoT and all kinds of scifi space operas but find westerns kinda meh? The cast is pretty insane at least. And there are boobz? The western aspect is only a setting, and rarely the true theme. The show does an amazing job of creating essentially two completely distinct environments that both look and feel organic and real...but it also never lets you forget that one isn't "real", maybe the other one isn't either in some sense of the word, and what the fuck is real anyway? These are the questions the show raises.
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On November 01 2016 21:54 d00p wrote:
So.. I'm sorry this is lazy post but IS IT ANY GOOD? Can anyone tell at this point? A few episodes are out now. Should I watch it if I like GoT and all kinds of scifi space operas but find westerns kinda meh? The cast is pretty insane at least. And there are boobz?
The show is good but might think it is smarter than it really is. As a sci if western, it is not as good as Cowboy Bebop but it isn't too far off. It does have an outrageously talented cast so the acting is fantastic. The visuals are also great.
There are boobs. Thandie Newton has nipples that were perfected to help babies latch and they will make you want to be breast fed by her.
I would totally recommend it in the slow tv season and as a post-GoT future for HBO. The themes are illusion vs reality and flexing the lines of what makes us human (memory, emotions, etc).
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I think it's definitely worth the watch. You'll get more out of it the more you have a grounding in philosophy/religion, but the acting is a great draw even if that's not your speed. As for the puzzle part of it, I think you can't really say with these things until you get to the payoff... it's certainly not why I'm watching the show.
But the show's closest analogues aren't really Westerns. The most directly comparable (down to individual characters) is Dollhouse, though it definitely shares DNA with Blade Runner, BSG, T:SCC.
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On November 02 2016 13:49 Yoav wrote:
I think it's definitely worth the watch. You'll get more out of it the more you have a grounding in philosophy/religion, but the acting is a great draw even if that's not your speed. As for the puzzle part of it, I think you can't really say with these things until you get to the payoff... it's certainly not why I'm watching the show.
But the show's closest analogues aren't really Westerns. The most directly comparable (down to individual characters) is Dollhouse, though it definitely shares DNA with Blade Runner, BSG, T:SCC.
Agreed, this reminded me so much of dollhouse from the first episode.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.discoverwestworld.com/images/explore/explore_bg.jpg)
