On September 20 2012 07:15 Sentenal wrote: Like I said earlier, Shinji does stop strangling her, which could be a sign that he hasn't completely lost his mind. But the fact that the situation even existed is proof enough that the guy is crazy. Its just, there are different levels of how "sick" a person can be, mentally.
Well the news blows it out of perportion with just how "sick" some people are...
I'm personally attracted to the phsycho-broken like Asuka's personality... probably makes me sick in the head some way but oh well.
Shinji is a coward who is forced to do extraordinary things outside his element, and had to witness death, destruction and insanity while he's only a teenage looking for father's approval. Being forced into those situations would make anyone sick after a prolonged peroid of time.
The last part of the show really stuck with me for a long time, simply because of how depressing it was. It seemed to me that Shinji, for whatever reason, was granted the power of creating the world exactly as he wanted - humans won, they had defeated the angels and the Human project had worked, except it was Shinji, and not one of the Seele members, who controlled it.
Problem is, Shinji is a messed up child afraid of everything he desires. He wants his father to love him, while hating his father and everything he has done. He loves Asuka as much as he is obsessed with her, despite hoe terribly she treats him - he is dependant on her, and the attention she gives him, but hates her for the power she, as a girl, has over him. Throughout the show he is subservient to women, trying his best to placate and please them in any and every situation, despite this being impossible, probably because his mother was the only person who really showed him unrequited kindness and love. Rei is a distant love, a person he idolises and wants to be near, yet she is completely uninterested, distant and removed from any emotions or ties to him, despite him wanting her both sexually and as a friend - her lack of affection, emotion or even attention means she cannot be the one to give him the love he craves.
Now, look at the ending. Next to him is Asuka, because he needs, craves some kind of attention, but he hates the dependancy he has on her. She causes emotions to rise in him that he cannot control or understand - despite his age he is emotionally unable to process puberty and the sexual feelings Asuka causes in him, and hates her whilst being dependant on her - as a woman, he craves the attention she could give him like his mother once did, but he cannot process the fact that he is growing into a man, with sexual urges, and the feelings women give him create a feeling of self-loathing despite the need he still has for a female companion to love and nurture him. This is why he attacks her, this is why he tries to kill her. But his disgust in himself and his weakness in needing human contact, regardless of who it is from and what that human contact might be, causes him to stop strangling her. This is why Asuka, or rather the part of his mind that she represents, is disgusted. It isn't really Asuka there, rather his self-loathing and lust for women whilst needing their affection embodied in the object of his hatred and desire. Shinji wants love as a child from his mother and as a man from his wife, but he cannot separate the two in himself and hates himself for it.
The reason Asuka called Shinji disgusting as the last line was because once they all turned into LCL they melded, and a consequence of melding is sharing thoughts. Asuka found out what shinji did in this scene:
Now couple that with this quote from Miyamura:
"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.'"[1]
On September 20 2012 07:48 Gono wrote: The reason Asuka called Shinji disgusting as the last line was because once they all turned into LCL they melded, and a consequence of melding is sharing thoughts. Asuka found out what shinji did in this scene:
"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.'"[1]
And there you have it.
To me, it felt like Anno's response was.. a bit of disappointment, that the actress didn't really see a bigger picture apart from the inherent disgust that someone... like Asuka would feel if she realized that wasn't Elmer's glue. >_>
I myself am on more of the side of Tiffany Grant's suggestion that it might've been unrelated (I think she said morning sickness?) or something else, though that might just be me overthinking things and hoping desperately for some sort of deeper message.
Regardless, I watched EoE when I was quite young and the whole series.. both the manga and the anime until Rebuild probably ranks as some of the most apocalyptic, painful and depressing things I've ever watched/read. Incredibly brutal but brilliant. I'm a sucker for 'weird' things and Evangelion was great for that.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
You didn't understand the Instrumentality Project.
The Evas fight with AT-fields. Absolute Terror fields. An the AT-field is a physical manifestation of the ego; Evas fight with their ego, rejecting the enemy, in a way. Only by piercing that barrier can you also reach an Angel's heart. It is stated in the show that every human being has an AT-field, which is what defines his individual conscience. However, ours is weaker, not a physical manifestation but barely a thin thread that keeps us apart.
The Instrumentality project aims to break all AT-fields so that humans, weak and miserable creatures (here is the Evangelic and pascalian tradition), can once again be united in the "soup of life". No one will ever suffer or feel lonely again, everyone will merge into one being, in a common epiphany.
However, Shinji, finally believing that life as it is is worth living, refuses to merge with everyone else, and thus saves mankind in its current form. People are not dead, they are simply all part of the sea of life. And thanks to Shinji, they can come back. But the boy is not aware of that, and when Asuka resurfaces, he simply freaks out. He's not insane, he simply freaks out after spending too much time alone.
You can say that it's a pessimistic ending, but Shinji is the only human being who defended his individuality. But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
You didn't understand the Instrumentality Project.
The Evas fight with AT-fields. Absolute Terror fields. An the AT-field is a physical manifestation of the ego; Evas fight with their ego, rejecting the enemy, in a way. Only by piercing that barrier can you also reach an Angel's heart. It is stated in the show that every human being has an AT-field, which is what defines his individual conscience. However, ours is weaker, not a physical manifestation but barely a thin thread that keeps us apart.
The Instrumentality project aims to break all AT-fields so that humans, weak and miserable creatures (here is the Evangelic and pascalian tradition), can once again be united in the "soup of life". No one will ever suffer or feel lonely again, everyone will merge into one being, in a common epiphany.
However, Shinji, finally believing that life as it is is worth living, refuses to merge with everyone else, and thus saves mankind in its current form. People are not dead, they are simply all part of the sea of life. And thanks to Shinji, they can come back. But the boy is not aware of that, and when Asuka resurfaces, he simply freaks out. He's not insane, he simply freaks out after spending too much time alone.
You can say that it's a pessimistic ending, but Shinji is the only human being who defended his individuality. But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
??? They're still alive, they're just one being inside the sea of LCL. And anyone can come back, as long as they are strong enough to recognize the image of him/herself, so long as the Earth, the Sun and the Moon are still existing.
On September 20 2012 11:23 Sentenal wrote: I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
On September 20 2012 11:23 Sentenal wrote: I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
Well we can be technical. They arent alive by the defination of the sense. They are very dead. They spiritually exist still in a way but would you call a ghost alive? Dont think so. It is stated that they could come back alive from being LCL. Dont really know how there is a augment here....
All the serious stuff aside i do like how Sentenal has coined Instrumentality as being tang'd. Having all this deep eva talk and comparing it to tang just is so funny to me. Or at least i think it was Sentenal xp.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami.
Strawman. I didn't say its an atypical reaction to "freak out". I said its atypical to freak out and (this is the important part) try to murder Asuka. This is what makes him a psychopath. Not the "freak out" part, but the "murder Asuka" part.
He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
He didn't kill her, but he wanted to. You can tell he wanted to kill her because he was strangling her. Normally when you crawl on top of someone else, cup your hands around their throat, squeeze really hard to cut off their wind pipe (which is clearly what he was doing), you are trying to kill the person.
If he actually thought it was a hallucination, then he wouldn't have tried to murder her, since you can't kill hallucinations. He would have to be mentally retarded to think you can kill something you "know" is in your imagination by strangling it.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
Being turned into a liquid and mixed with everyone else in the Earth seems kinda different from how I understand the concept of after-life in most major religions.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
They can, but they don't. Anyway, the question of if they do or don't doesn't matter to me, and its a rather pointless argument based only on speculation. The ability to come back or not is irrelevant that the state of being LCL is a fate not much different from death. They are "alive*". But that's about all you can say about them.
On September 20 2012 12:18 Quintum_ wrote: All the serious stuff aside i do like how Sentenal has coined Instrumentality as being tang'd. Having all this deep eva talk and comparing it to tang just is so funny to me. Or at least i think it was Sentenal xp.
As much as I'd like to take credit, I wasn't the one who originally came up with that idea, lol
On September 20 2012 12:08 Gamegene wrote: can we call shinji dead when he was assimilated into unit 01? (he was tang'd in the entry plug)
We can call him "dead", which was the general reaction of people at NERV when it happened.
On September 20 2012 12:25 MajuGarzett wrote: Where does the "neon genesis" part of the name come from?
The answer to most questions like that, when it comes to Evangelion, is "because it sounds complicated" or "because it sounds cool".
It always seems like i picking on you Sentenal, i dont mean to though xp
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
On September 20 2012 12:25 MajuGarzett wrote: Where does the "neon genesis" part of the name come from?
The answer to most questions like that, when it comes to Evangelion, is "because it sounds complicated" or "because it sounds cool".
It always seems like i picking on you Sentenal, i dont mean to though xp
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
However
Lol, i forgot about that. You have to agree though that Neon Genesis Evangelion rolls off the tongue so much better then Gospel of the New Genesis. And its not like he pulled random words that sounds complicated, they still tie in somewhat into the Japanese title, slight change.
I find it funny that Sent and that other TLADT guy have expressed that they dislike the series, yet here we are a week later and they're still posting in a thread dedicated to a topic they hate.
People, stop feeding the trolls. The only reason someone would hang around in a discussion about a topic they dislike is to troll the people that like said topic.
I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
You realize that OP, who clearly is anything but a hater, has violated that rule the most in this thread, right?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mmpK1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/darksentenal/1298682298784.jpg)
