Picture a world, not unlike your own, Where people believe that they're safe in their home, But just outside their door, A supernatural horror, Is out to destroy the human race.
Picture a child, not unlike yourself, Who goes through life not caring about himself, Just spending his days, Trying to shut away, All the things that he cannot face.
Earth is in crisis, despair is encroaching, As Angels descend from the sky. If mankind is to survive what's aproaching, Then they're gonna have to rely, On-
Giant robots with angels trapped inside of them, Damaged pilots & an evil organization, Doing battle with creepy monsters from beyond, Mankind's last hope lies in the Evangelions.
About The Original Series Legacy:
Please read the Thread Rules and Spoiler Policy at the bottom of the OP
One of the most controversial anime series ever created, Neon Genesis Evangelion has spawned more discussion, debate, arguments criticisms and praise than any other anime franchise in the medium.
What starts as a slightly dark super robot show slowly reveals itself as a complicated psychological study of it's complex character's and their issues. Featuring a cast of young teenagers and older men and women, the series explores their small triumphs, failures, angst, traumatizing pasts, while everything goes to hell around them as they interact with one another.
Showing what it would take for the world to rely on gigantic robots, and what would happen if children piloted them, the show brutally crushes and dissects what was a popular premise and genre in the 1990's, and explores through it's characters, themes of depression, loneliness, human interaction, social commentary, and ultimately the pain of an individual in his environment.
Critically received, the series is noted to be the best of it's decade, and the most influential anime of it's time, Neon Genesis Evangelion ultimately changed the face of the anime medium, forcing the entire industry to reconsider how seriously the medium can be taken.
Universally loved and hated, this is a MUST watch for any serious anime fan.
About The Creator:
"Evangelion is my life, and I have put everything I know into this work. This is my entire life. My life itself."
In 1995, Hideaki Anno began work on the 26 episode series, who had faced many production problems and arguments from his work on Nadia: The Secret Of The Blue Water, which led to extreme depression and cynicism for the world around him. His personal issues began to influence and ultimately become a source of the show's tone, theme and storyline.
Production on Neon Genesis Evangelion proved to be even more frustrating for Anno, as Studio GAINAX (presently bankrupt) gave him a ridiculously limited budget to work on. While the series proved to be a sleeper hit with audiences, Anno was forced to continue to stretch his money, cut scenes and recreate scenes to avoid going deeper into red ink, causing a massive amount of stress for him.
Eventually, he was forced to go into therapy because of the show. Interestingly enough, all hell breaks loose on the show, as the characters begin showing the extent of their mental problem, around the time Anno goes to therapy.
Today he is credited with the massive success of the franchise, being alikened to George Lucas and similar circumstances surrounding the original Star Wars.
About The Plot:
In the year 2000, a global cataclysm known as Second Impact changes the world and the course of human history. A high speed meteorite of tremendous mass hits the planet, destroying the continent of Antarctica. The obliteration of Antartica causes massive global flooding, shifts the axis of the Earth causing extreme global climate change resulting in half the Earth's population being killed off in a matter of days. In the immediate aftermath civil wars, political turmoil, economic crisis and nuclear war all arise leading to more death on a global wasteland.
The story begins in 2015, Tokyo-3 (the original Tokyo being destroyed during Second Impact) the Fortress City. The Earth has achieved peace 5 years earlier, as governments around the world were able to unite under the U.N. banner and put a stop to the global civil unrest. But instead of investing what is left of Earth's resources in rebuilding what is left for the survivors of Second Impact, the secret Seele organization created Gehirn, and through it NERV, to quick advance scientific and engineering research. Seele, which uses the U.N. as it's puppet organization, consumes everything Earth has left into giant humanoid robots called Evangelion for the coming of the alien beings called "Angels", who wish to initiate Third Impact, and annihilate what is left of humanity.
Ikari Shinji has been chosen as the Third Child to pilot Evangelion Unit 01. He is the son of Ikari Gendo, the head of special division NERV, who abandoned him when he was a child. He arrives in the city, just as the Third Angel attacks...
The First, Second, Third Children
"If I die I can be replaced." Ayanami Rei The First Children. Pilot of Experimental Unit 00 A mysterious girl. Her first name means, literally, "nothing"
"Why do you pilot Eva?" "Isn't it obvious? To show my talents to the world."
Asuka Langley Soryu The Second Children Pilot of Production Unit 02 She wants to prove herself
"I musn't run away, I musn't run away, I musn't run away."
Ikari Shinji The Third Children Pilot of Experimental Unit 01 Our protagonist
About The Original Episodes 25 And 26:
Although the series run was extremely successful, Anno was nearly out of budget to create two full fledged episodes to conclude the series. Previous episodes were forced to use more old footage, less movement, and more symbolic scenes to save as much money as they can (resulting in the infamous mind rape scene). But now Anno was forced to conclude the series with hardly any resources.
This resulted in, essentially, a 2 episode long internal monologue where we see the thought process of the characters as Instrumentality begins.
These two episodes alone have caused enormous confusion, hate and discussion as viewers watched a clip show of scenes with no coherent movement on screen.
These episodes were primarily dialogue with complete darkness, white text, with occasional briefly animated scenes.
2 years later, End Of Evangelion was released to give the fans and audience the shows original intended conclusion. (The movie arguably confused the fans and casual viewers even further)
About The Franchise:
"It's strange that 'Evangelion' has become such a hit... all the characters are so sick!" -Anno
Originally started as a 26 episode series aired in 1995, the franchise now includes four manga adaptations (one of which is still ongoing), two movies released in 1997: Death and Rebirth being a condensed theatrical version of the original 25 planned episodes, and The End of Evangelion, a full feature film created to give a definitive ending to the television series.
Most notably and recently, Rebuild Of Evangelion: A new four animated movie saga begun in 2007 by Anno, this time armed with a virtually unlimited budget and emotional satisfaction. The series serves as an alternative retelling of the original series, featuring more emotional stability and dialogue between the original characters and two new pilots to the cast, as well as the new plot showing signs of a drastically different conclusion.
Be warned: While the character's issues and angst are relatively toned down, Rebuild still offers the cast an equally dark and depressing storyline, with some many of the intense and infamous scenes being even more horrifying than the original. The characters and audience are forced kicking and screaming for what seems to be a chance for hope and possibly redemption.
Films include (ongoing):
Evangelion 1.0 新劇場版 序 Jo (Beginning) You Are (Not) Alone
Evangelion 2.0 新劇場版 破 Ha (Breaking) You Can (Not) Advance
Evangelion 3.0 新劇場版 Q (Quickening) You Can (Not) Redo To be released November 11, 2012
Each film has it's original title and an international title. The original Japanese titles invoke what is called a "noh" play, which has a beginning, middle and end, Q replacing 急 (Kyu) for Quickening.
Want To Know More About The Franchise? "WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST WATCH?"
Right after the OP, I will include a heavily spoiler tagged post, explaining the plot, background, and some of the more confusing, convoluted and horrifying moments in the franchise.
However maybe you're not satisfied by what you have read, or fear that it is a subjective interpretation. (Unfortunately a lot of elements of the show ARE very subjective).
In that case I recommend a site called "evageeks". It features a condensed analysis of the show, filtered from over a decade of discussion and angry fan confusion.
Try /a/nime and manga or /m/echa imageboards (you know the one) for current discussions on the show. Often times quality fanart and explanations are offered. Be prepared to be called a faggot.
Thread Rules: READ BEFORE POSTING
This thread is a place to celebrate, discuss, and even argue about the show, it's characters, and your interpretation of the above.
Got a question? Ask it!
Funny picture? Got an opinion? Share it! Please take the time to read through the thread if you are confused about the series, especially if it is subjective, as often times you can start to make your own conclusions once you see other perspectives and interpretations of the show.
This show is hit or miss with a lot of people, and the fact that the final episodes, manga and movies can be "2deep4u", will result in a lot of posters expressing their confusion, hatred, or general dislike of the series. That is to be expected.
That being said, do not insult fans of the series for appreciating something you don't like. The flipside also applies.
Remember: This show has been discussed for literally more than a decade for a reason, meaning that it's well known that it generates a lot of discussion, criticism, fanboys and haters. BE CIVIL!
Spoilers!
Because the original episodes and theatrical conclusion have been watched by many anime fans, do not be afraid to discuss the original 26 episodes and End Of Evangelion without spoiler tags.
If you have never watched the series before, it is highly recommended you watch the above before posting. Trust me you'll just be confused.
Please use spoiler tags when discussing plot points for the Rebuild saga, as many people have not watched/are aware of these movies. Especially since Rebuild 2.0 is extremely mind blowing, there's a big potential to ruin a television fan's experience.
On September 13 2000 The GAINAX website wrote: Giant Meteorite Hits Antarctica? (2000.09.13) According to a P.U. Communications report, a gigantic explosion occurred in Antarctica on this date. The cause has yet to be announced, but experts believe that it was caused my a meteorite impact. Earthquakes and tidal waves of extreme magnitude are occurring all over the world. We are already receiving reports of damage in parts of South Africa and Australia. The force of the explosion is estimated to be upward of 18 billion megatons of TNT. Antarctica itself has been almost entirely pulverized, and it is estimated that most of the ice will turn into vapor, which will condense into massive rainfall, which will in turn swamp coastal areas as sea level rises. Evacuation orders are in effect for all such regions around the world. The preceding was a story from the world of Evangelion. Today is when Second Impact happened in series chronology. It is also the birthdate of Nagisa Kaworu.
Note: The following information comes from a handbook given to the audiences during the original release of End Of Evangelion. It is considered canon.
4.6 billions years ago, deep in the milky way galaxy existed "The First Ancesteral Race", a group of alien beings who were practically omnipotent with their advanced technology. Their world faced with extinction, they accepted their fate, but decided to ensure that life would continue to exist in the universe. Placing the soul of one of their race into seven "Seeds Of Life", they scattered them to 7 inhabitable planets before their destruction.
Each equipped with The Dead Sea Scrolls and a Lance Of Longinus, the Seeds Of Life would provide a primordial soup of life to the planets, and begin life.
There were two kinds of Seeds, a Black Moon, and a White Moon. A "Fruit Of Life" White Moon would spawn Angels, strange and bizzare lifeforms to take over the planet and inhabit it. A "Fruit Of Knowledge" Black Moon would spawn intelligent beings, and ultimately lead to the life form forming civilization.
The White Moon landed on Earth first in Antarctica, but for whatever reason a Black Moon landed as well before the White Moon could begin life on Earth.
Sensing what was wrong, the White Moon became inactive to prevent two life forms from beginning at the same time, allowing us humans to emerge from the Black Moon (metaphorically speaking as evolution would have to take place over millions of years).
Jump forward to the year 2000. Seele, a mysterious organization, discover the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Black Moon uncovered in Japan. The Dead Sea Scrolls were instructions on what the Seeds Of Life were and what they did. They also explain what would happen if two Seeds Of Life hapened to meet on the same planet.
Discovering the White Moon in Antartica, Seele sends the Katsuragi Expedition, headed by Misato's father, to initiate Second Impact before Adam, the soul residing in the White Moon awakens. If Adam was able to reawaken, all Lillith (the soul residing in the Black Moon) based life would extinguish right down to the bacterial level.
Using a human "donor" to initiate contact with Adam, they start Second Impact. In the aftermath of the damage, they were able to suspend Adam into an embryonic state, and delay the coming of the Angels.
The White Moon, along with Antarctica is destroyed. The Black Moon, the birthplace of humanity, is quickly taken up by Seele and their U.N. puppet government along with the truth of Second Impact, instead fabricating a story that a meteor hit the planet. On top of the Black Moon, Tokyo 3 is created, a fortress city designed to intercept the Angels that will be coming in 15 years for Adam, the father of the Angels and Lillith, the mother of humanity, in the depth of the Black Moon Geofront.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
With the backing of Seele, secret organization Gehirn is created, hidden as a U.N. Lab in the construction of Tokyo-3 and started with the original members of a Seele backed U.N. research group (the surviving members of the Katsuragi Expedition, including Ikari Gendo. It is tasked to start research and development on the Evangelion Series, the Magi supercomputer and plan the defenses for the coming of the Angels.
Dr. Naoko Akagi, the mother of Ritsuko Akagi, is the brain behind the development and ultimately success of the Magi Supercomputer, and the first Evangelion. Magi is meant to be a bionic super computer, implanted with three seperate human personalities.
Magi, named after the three wise men from the East, was created in order to act as an operation system for the Evangelion Series, and to give the series the capacity to hold personality. In the series, it is tasked with running the government of Japan (through majority rule between the three personalities), running NERV headquarters, and give NERV staff information, analysis and suggestions on the Evangelion Series and the Angels.
Soon after, future subcommander Fuyutsuki joins the organization, after revealing his knowledge of the true Second Impact. Ikari Yui, Shinji's mother and wife of Ikari Gendo, is seemingly killed and erased during a freak accident (that Shinji witnessed but has no recollection of when the series begins). Two successful Evangelion units are created: Unit 00 and Unit 01. The organization is reformed under a new name: NERV. Dr. Naoko Akagi commits suicide after killing Rei.
The "Ultimate All-Purpose Humanoid Decisive Battle Weapon: Evangelion" Series
Evangelions are not robots. They're humans in the loosest sense of the word. Evangelions, with the exception of Evangelion Unit 01, are made from the remains of the Adam's Seed Of Life. Like Adam described as "the giant being of light", Evangelions share the same phsyical form of a human being and a unit "core".
Featuring an A.T. Field, and a power equal to the Angels themselves, they are humanities only hope of defeating the Angels and initiating Third Impact.
Unlike their White Moon counterparts however, the Evangelions originally did not have S2 engines, meaning that they are severely limited in operation time, and are forced to use a power cord before relying on internal power.
Later in the series, Experimental Evangelion Unit 01 was able to ingest an S2 engine. The Mass Production Evas proudly featured them, allowing them to have the ability of flight (no longer being constrained by the cord).
Evangelions are covered in binders, which also serves as armor, a way to control the Evangelion, and disguises the Evangelion series true inner workings: They have limbs, blood, a nervous system organ system, and even eyeballs (notably shown during the second episode, and during Asuka's defeat at the hands of the Mass Production Evas.
Like the Angels, Evangelions have regeneration abilities, although it's implied that it takes long periods of time to repair extensive damage (think of Angels when they recover from an N2 bomb). Damage sustained by the Evangelion units can result in massive repair costs to replace or salvage the armored binders, and give the Evangelion enough bio mass to help accelerate the regeneration.
The system that allows electronic personality for the Magi Computer is incorporated into all Evangelions, allowing each of the pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul
In the series, Seele is a council of twelve members, five of whom are shown in the beginning of the series. Chairman Keel Lorenz, the guy in the green suit and weird glasses, is the head of both the full council and the inner circle of 5. When the full council convenes, they project an image of large stone monoliths in a video conference (Keel is SEEL 01 SOUND ONLY).
SEELE, is essentially a group of old men who rule the world, as they directly control the U.N. (and all the countries within the U.N.) and NERV, having funding and backing both organizations.
After completing o it's goals of creating the MAGI, and first opperational Evangelion (Unit 00), Geherin was directly reorganized into NERV. NERV is a paramilitary special agency, tasked with defending mankind against the Angels, and prevent the Angels from starting a Third Impact.
Given authority under the U.N. (SEELE), NERV is a laregely independent organization, as only the Evangelion Series can stand up to the Angels, although they do coordinate with with other organizations such as the JSSDF (Japanese Strategic Special Self Defense Forces). Their main role in the defense against the Angels, is to support the Evangelion Units, provide logistics and technical support to the pilots. They have branches all over the world (Asuka and Kaji were transfered from the Branch in Germany), and like the main branch in Tokyo-3, they host their own Magi supercomputers and have the infrastructure to support and build Evangelions, which is where the Production and Mass production models were created.
NERV is a semi public organization, being under the U.N., however their main purpose (to defeat the Angels and support the Evangelion series) is a top secret from the general public. NERV has thousands of intelligence agents, who track down former NERV employees, keep tabs on current, and eliminate all leaks. They have are also shown to have special privileges, and can override and give orders to local governments. They also regularly issue media black outs during Angel and Evangelion activity (though after a certain point, everyone in Tokyo-3 knows what's going on).
Ikari Gendo is the head of Special Agency NERV, and regularly butts heads with the SEELE organization. Because SEELE directly funds NERV, Gendo must work and show that NERV is accomplishing it's goals of completing it's secret agenda: The Human Instrumentality Project, otherwise NERV, and Gendo will be cut.
A.T. Field, also known as Absolute Terror Field, a barrier than can only be penetrated by another, is one of the primary sources of conflict for this show. Projected by the Angels and Evangelions, it renders conventional weapons useless against them (it took all the power in Japan to break through just one!). Although it is mainly a defensive tool, the Angels and occasionally the Evangelions, are shown using A.T. Fields offensively, by projecting them in a unique manner (The "Shadow" Angel inverted his A.T. Field, essentially creating a black hole.) N2 Mines, which stand for Non-Nuclear, have the power of a nuclear missile, but even they can only momentarily paralyze a unit protected by an A.T. Field. Evangelions are typically seen entering close combat with Angels, as it is the most effective way of dealing with an A.T. Field.
The only other way to negate this seemingly impenetrable forcefield is through the use of the Lance Of Longinus. The Lance Of Longinus, created by the First Artificial Race and sent to Earth in each of the Moons (Lillith's Lance was destroyed upon impact), is the most powerful weapon in the series. It is considered a godly weapon, able to completely piece through an A.T. Field without one of it's own, and wreaks massive amount of damage to either, which is why SEELE was very upset that the Lance was lost in orbit around the moon when the 22nd Angel Arael (the mind rape Angel). It is speculated that the Lance was included with the Black and White seeds, to offer a security measure for whatever beings seek to control their (The First Ancestral Race's) creations.
"Were you expecting some cute girl? I apologize... it's just me Ikari Shinji..."
LCL is an orange liquid, that floods the entry plug of an Evangelion unit. Because it is oxygenated, it allows for pilots to breathe while completely submerged, and once an electrical current is run through the LCL, it allows it to become as dense as air, allowing the pilots to see clearly. The solution allows for pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul.
LCL is the primordial soup of life, where all life originated on Earth. Special Agency NERV obtains LCL from the blood of Lillith deep underground Centeral Dogma. With the Lance piercing her chest, Lillith bleeds LCL ("smells like blood"), and forms the lake of tang in central dogma.
Plugsuits are skintight (mmf) spandex suits. that help reduce interference for the pilots, they are also capable of providing emergency medical aid, such as a defibrillator but have a limited amount of power. They are not required to pilot Eva, as Shinji has shown numerous times in the series, though it appears that the interface headsets (the things that Asuka always wears) are critical in synchronizing. They're also a major source of a lot of latex fetishes for the fans.
"PERVERT!"
A high synchronization rate is critical to piloting the Evangelion, which is why LCL, plugsuits, interface headsets and an astounding amount of testing is required to increase the pilot's ability to interface. Pilots control Evangelions through their thoughts, and are able to move Evangelion like a part of their body, only if they are able to maintain a synchronization rate over 10%. The higher it is, the less clumsy Evangelion becomes, which is crucial in aiming the various weapons and engaging in close combat with the Angels. However the downside is that the pilots receive information at a higher rate as well from the Evangelion unit, meaning they experience pain. and ultimately injuries the Eva units recieve if the synchronization rate is high enough (Asuka losing her eye for example... and then eventually Unit 02 being eaten).
Why Are The Pilots All Children and Orphans?: Yui Ikari and The Secret Of The Evangelions Where are their mothers?
Alas, the great question. Why send giant robots (biomechanical whatever) worth billions of dollars to do battle against giant alien invaders, and risking the local population and infrastructure, piloted by a bunch of kids?
The simple half answer is that because the Angels only gave 15 years of notice, that's just the average age the pilots were, (since they had to be created into candiates, and in some cases created).
The real answer is that you cannot be an Evangelion pilot without losing your mother.
Every student in Shinji's class have been hand selected by the mysterious Marodoc Institute (an organization affiliated with SEELE and NERV), as candidates to be an EVA pilot. They all do not have a mother.
The unit "core" of the Evangelion, is home to the soul of the pilot's mother, which is why (with the exception of Rei and Shinji), pilots cannot interface with different Eva units.
Yui Ikari first completed the biomechanical theory, before the year of Second Impact. She theorized that personality and a person's "soul" could be transplanted like machinery. After the hell of Second Impact, the Gehirn Institute hires her to help complete her theory and materialize it in Eva.
With the Magi system completed, the NERV now had a system to allow pilots to interface with a unit's soul, despite the Evangelion units being completely biological.. Yui Ikari willingly allowed herself to be assimilated into the Eva unit, to protect and watch over Shinji, and fulfill her goal of advancing humanity for the sake of children like her son.
This is why Unit 01 goes beserk 3 seperate times in the series. Shinji's mother is still alive inside Unit 01, and protects him at all costs.
Unfortunately Asuka's mother had a much more tragic case. Instead of assimilated her entire personality and body into Unit 02, only the love and caring for Asuka was assimilated (although it accomplished the same results).
I, II, III, (IV? V?) Rei Ayanami, Lillith and the Dummy Plug System
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Sick, Quickening so soon. But it will probably take them quite long to release Blueray like with Eva 2.22. Also on wiki is that it's going to be in cinema in Japan in November 17, but I didn't search any longer after that.
The best anime franchise I have watched. Took me over a year to stop thinking about the last two episodes and End Of Evangelion. I still see traces of Evangelion in recent stuff like Madoka, its influence is that profound.
Wish more people watched this series. But the 1990s was a long time ago
I'm almost done watching the original series (I think I'm on ep 22, taking them pretty slowly). IMO the things that make it controversial are the things that make the series memorable. It is SO F*CKING WEIRD THOUGH. I'm enjoying it, but I don't know if I'll watch the reboot. Not a fan of remakes of the same stories usually.
This is one of the few animes I have watched and liked and actually watched the entire series. That being said some of the aliens that attack the world are just straight up ridiculously stupid looking. And I seem to recall a segment where it looked like the animation staff was cut and replaced by monkeys with crayons. But other than that the main characters and mechs were awesome.
On September 13 2012 08:57 ampson wrote: I'm almost done watching the original series (I think I'm on ep 22, taking them pretty slowly). IMO the things that make it controversial are the things that make the series memorable. It is SO F*CKING WEIRD THOUGH. I'm enjoying it, but I don't know if I'll watch the reboot. Not a fan of remakes of the same stories usually.
Make sure to watch End of Evangelion concurrently with the final two episodes. Or immediately before or after or between the last two episodes.
Failure to do otherwise will lead to larger headaches.
Series throws you around both emotionally, and with the plot so much that is comes out oddly.. amazing. Loved both the original series and 1.0 and 2.0. Been anticipating 3.0 ever since 2.0. Hypehype
This is by far the best movie/series (the first time it was aired as 6 movies) ever made. everytime i watch it again, i regocnize somethinge new. its the perfect mix of action and humor at the foreground and psychogical and religious references in the background, and the story itself gets more complex with more episodes till the end where you dont know what to say. its so beautiful
ps: Maya, the new pilot from the rebuild, her psychological twist is, she is on drugs right..i mean...geeze... :p
Showing what it would take for the world to rely on gigantic robots, and what would happen if children piloted them, the show brutally crushes and dissects what was a popular premise and genre in the 1990's, and explores through it's characters, themes of depression, loneliness, human interaction, social commentary, and ultimately the pain of an individual in his environment.
How does it do this? Please cite examples to back up claims.
Showing what it would take for the world to rely on gigantic robots, and what would happen if children piloted them, the show brutally crushes and dissects what was a popular premise and genre in the 1990's, and explores through it's characters, themes of depression, loneliness, human interaction, social commentary, and ultimately the pain of an individual in his environment.
How does it do this? Please cite examples to back up claims.
Showing what it would take for the world to rely on gigantic robots, and what would happen if children piloted them, the show brutally crushes and dissects what was a popular premise and genre in the 1990's, and explores through it's characters, themes of depression, loneliness, human interaction, social commentary, and ultimately the pain of an individual in his environment.
How does it do this? Please cite examples to back up claims.
Thats really cool, how does that brutally deconstruct anything within the genre?
I watched this last year when I was feeling a bit depressed myself (I enjoy watching sad things when I'm sad. It actually makes me feel better).
I love this anime. It's a bit fucking weird at times (the random guts and blood everywhere). But the quality is unbelievable. If you took a look at how complex the design of the EVAs are, you'd be amazed (and remember this stuff came out almost 20 years ago). Blizzard needs to hire these guys for some unit concept art.
God, I watched this 10 years ago and still feel mindfucked by it. Nothing I have seen before or since ends as badly as this clusterfuck of a story does. Only Mass Effect 3's original ending comes close.
On September 13 2012 09:33 Zergneedsfood wrote: You do know that he did watch the entire thing, right?
Oh.
Then it looks like it'd devolve into a fanboy-antifanboy fight, or something similar. Far from a unemotional discussion. I want no part in that and will stop here before the subjective destroys the thread.
One of the most overrated series I've seen, its the anime equivalent of Lost. Interesting stuff that ends up being smoke and mirrors for a writer that tried to do more than he was able to. It has a lot of suspense. that leads to nowhere and action, that leads to nowhere. In fact when they released the movie to fix the EXTREMELY RETARDED ENDING they actually gave the people some papers explaining a lot of stuff they were totally unable to explain in the actual show.
If you like stuff like Lost you are going to love it. If not you are going to love it til you finish watching and then you'll hate it.
The animation was amazing for its time, it introduced a lot of concept that were incredibly novel (particulary for those unaware of all that christian mythology) and has a main character which is pretty much the opposite of Goku. And also a lot of, err there's a word for it but i forgot, lets say "hentai hints". It had all the ingredients to be completely great but sadly the plot ends up collapsing.
On September 13 2012 09:33 Zergneedsfood wrote: You do know that he did watch the entire thing, right?
Oh.
Then it looks like it'd devolve into a fanboy-antifanboy fight, or something similar. Far from a unemotional discussion. I want no part in that and will stop here before the subjective destroys the thread.
I would say a strong statement like "brutally crushes and dissects what was a popular premise and genre" deserves to be backed up, right?
On September 13 2012 09:39 Sterlymobile wrote: I remember a long time ago they were remaking the series its like 4 movies, have they come out yet and anyone know where i can view them?
...read more carefully before posting please...
The first two are already out... third one in a couple of months. I wouldn't necessarily call them a 'remake' though... we'll see what happens with the last two...
On September 13 2012 09:38 skindzer wrote: One of the most overrated series I've seen, its the anime equivalent of Lost. Interesting stuff that ends up being smoke and mirrors for a writer that tried to do more than he was able to. It has a lot of suspense. that leads to nowhere and action, that leads to nowhere. In fact when they released the movie to fix the EXTREMELY RETARDED ENDING they actually gave the people some papers explaining a lot of stuff they were totally unable to explain in the actual show.
If you like stuff like Lost you are going to love it. If not you are going to love it til you finish watching and then you'll hate it.
I don't agree. Lost pissed me off, and Eva didn't.
I was too young when I watched it (around 10 years old), rewatched death and rebirth much later. I didn't understand the plot back then, and I still have nearly no clue.
Few vague memories I recall: - EVA01 had a mind of it's own in order to protect Shinji, in essence it was an angel itself - The Dummy program which only worked once in order to shutdown Eva03 - Rei Ayanami was really weird - Asuka's Eva was destroyed by the U.N. models they developed in 'Death'?
Now I got a headache from trying to recall the storyline
The first one is a copy of the episodes. The rails start sliding midway through the second movie. I have no idea what's going to happen in the third movie.
On September 13 2012 09:43 Zariel wrote: - EVA01 had a mind of it's own in order to protect Shinji, in essence it was an angel itself
Neon Genesis brings back sooo many memories of being a kid in the early nineties. Most of all I remember having to attend Chinese school every Friday night and being the only white kid in class. Having to suffer the abject RACISM.... of my would be chinese compatriots. And almost all the boys in those classes sported either DragonBall Z or Neon Genesis Evangelion pencil cases, back packs, lil sweat shirts etc... and they laughed, LAUGHED at my Ninja Turtles and DarkWing Duck accessories.
so I did not look upon Neon Genesis kindly at all
but later on in life as a young adult who had just recently been through a traumatic experience in the military... I discovered Neon Genesis. And grew to appreciate it for the masterpiece it truly is. That is all.
After what happened in the second movie, I'm pretty sure that 3.0 and 4.0 can't be remakes of the rest of the series. Can't wait to get proven right/wrong ^^
On September 13 2012 09:28 Brutaxilos wrote: Also, Cruel Angel's Thesis is the best song ever.
agreed, I still have it on my ipod today. I was really young when I saw the series so I mostly just watched it for the robot fights, but this song is what really captured the feeling for me.
So which did you guys like more, the kid jacking off on a comatose girl in the hopsital, or everyone turning into tang after being assaulted by albino midgets?
First picture in a while to make me seriously LOL. Hilarious hahahaha.
I just remember watching this show as a kid and wondering wtf the last few episodes were even about. I may rewatch the series again to feel the same nostalgia some of you do, but I thought they were annoying to say the least. If I wanted to listen to angst and misery I would just watch overacting women on Korean soaps
Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is cool. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating. Theres so much depression and angst and misery..its hard to keep up without feeling down yourself.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
That's one of the interpretations I've seen and thought about, that it's an allegory for elements of the WWII Pacific War and the Japanese public.
The ending makes some sense that way; they're the engine of their own destruction, with hints of the future Reconstruction era.
I like the whole Anno depression idea better, though.
The only reason the last 2 episodes are the way they are is because they ran out of money. Not because they wanted to be "deep" anything, but they couldn't afford to animate what was in End of Evangelion for the TV show, so they were just like "fuck it, congratulations"
If people could please PM me errors in the OP and suggestions how to make sentences sound less awkward that would save me time.
Also feel free to PM me additions to the OP or things I should address. I also plan on having my second "oh shit" post be the Spoiler post to help people understand the show, especially from episode 19 onwards.
The final was terrifucking bad. When I saw it when I was a kid, first they showed a series final without 2 special episodes or movies, etc, so you are left in total confusion because you realize something is missing and it's so unclear what happened in between.
Then when I got to see the special episodes: They were terrifucking bad, it wasn't even funny. I admit the series had its good moments, but overall it has no replay value what so ever, unless you are nostalgic. The whole theme about the pilots and their feelings its pretty cheap stuff to be honest, that can be found everywhere these days and it doesn't bring anything to the table, some other animes like Saint Seiya had better drama with regards to this, the good thing is the whole theme about the robots actually being giant humans or if you want to call it that, from a biological origin. That was pretty original but then they tied it to a bible plot, which was somewhat good in some episodes but totally awful in the last episodes, so confusing and complicated, and when you realize what is going on - at this point you probably finished your philosophy pHD - then you realize it was all just a pretty bad plot with not enough action for an anime about robots.
My two cents: don't watch this, there are better ways to waste your time. And no, understanding evangelion will not make you look smart, it only means you wasted a lot of time watching something rather confusing. Oh and Sinji or whatever was his name was a pretty weak character, Solid Snake would break his neck in a heart beat.
I have to admit, the episode about the giant black ball that eats the robot was pretty mysterious and good. But after that all went down the drain. That episode was cool, really, worth to watch.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
What I don't understand is why this is getting its own thread when it's really, really not going to bring any bit of value. It's going to devolve into people arguing about its depth vs people laughing at those people vs people throwing oil onto the fire.
it's an amazing anime but a bit confusing at times because not everything is explained clearly. in short, it is more about how the main character started from a 'run away from all trouble', extreme low self esteem with little sense of belonging to anywhere and has a weak presence in life but in general, has a good heart, grew up into a man after dealt with father/son relationship problem, love interest, near death situations.
(final esp showed this very clearly, where he picked the choice)
it's an interesting choice because I might have chosen the other myself lol
On September 13 2012 10:39 ETisME wrote: it's an amazing anime but a bit confusing at times because not everything is explained clearly. in short, it is more about how the main character started from a 'run away from all trouble', extreme low self esteem with little sense of belonging to anywhere and has a weak presence in life but in general, has a good heart, grew up into a man after dealt with father/son relationship problem, love interest, near death situations.
(final esp showed this very clearly, where he picked the choice)
it's an interesting choice because I might have chosen the other myself lol
Are you sure you watched the same show that I did?
On September 13 2012 10:19 Nevermind86 wrote: The final was terrifucking bad. When I saw it when I was a kid, first they showed a series final without 2 special episodes or movies, etc, so you are left in total confusion because you realize something is missing and it's so unclear what happened in between.
Then when I got to see the special episodes: They were terrifucking bad, it wasn't even funny. I admit the series had its good moments, but overall it has no replay value what so ever, unless you are nostalgic. The whole theme about the pilots and their feelings its pretty cheap stuff to be honest, that can be found everywhere these days and it doesn't bring anything to the table, some other animes like Saint Seiya had better drama with regards to this, the good thing is the whole theme about the robots actually being giant humans or if you want to call it that, from a biological origin. That was pretty original but then they tied it to a bible plot, which was somewhat good in some episodes but totally awful in the last episodes, so confusing and complicated, and when you realize what is going on - at this point you probably finished your philosophy pHD - then you realize it was all just a pretty bad plot with not enough action for an anime about robots.
My two cents: don't watch this, there are better ways to waste your time. And no, understanding evangelion will not make you look smart, it only means you wasted a lot of time watching something rather confusing. Oh and Sinji or whatever was his name was a pretty weak character, Solid Snake would break his neck in a heart beat.
I have to admit, the episode about the giant black ball that eats the robot was pretty mysterious and good. But after that all went down the drain. That episode was cool, really, worth to watch.
So basically, your complaints are:
It's bad It's really bad Some stuff's good, but other than that it's awful It's confusing
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
What I don't understand is why this is getting its own thread when it's really, really not going to bring any bit of value. It's going to devolve into people arguing about its depth vs people laughing at those people vs people throwing oil onto the fire.
I'm guessing OP saw SAO funtimes with ADT, then recalled the great flamewar of Eva a few months back and wanted to recreate it. MVP Sentenal is already here but idk where the other side is.
I really like NGE, most animes today focus only on fanservice and have 0 substance in them, I know NGE has a lot of fanservice, but its just that, its not the central piece of the story. Im not saying that its "omg so deep", but when I watch it I find it interesting you know, I wanted to keep watching, thats my definition of entertainment.
since all there is to say and more has already been said, here is the genius author Hideaki Anno in a possibly more disturbed movie than anything he has ever done
On September 13 2012 10:54 MeriaDoKk wrote: I really like NGE, most animes today focus only on fanservice and have 0 substance in them, I know NGE has a lot of fanservice, but its just that, its not the central piece of the story. Im not saying that its "omg so deep", but when I watch it I find it interesting you know, I wanted to keep watching, thats my definition of entertainment.
It may be the definition of entertainment but certainly not of quality.
On September 13 2012 10:19 Nevermind86 wrote: The final was terrifucking bad. When I saw it when I was a kid, first they showed a series final without 2 special episodes or movies, etc, so you are left in total confusion because you realize something is missing and it's so unclear what happened in between.
Then when I got to see the special episodes: They were terrifucking bad, it wasn't even funny. I admit the series had its good moments, but overall it has no replay value what so ever, unless you are nostalgic. The whole theme about the pilots and their feelings its pretty cheap stuff to be honest, that can be found everywhere these days and it doesn't bring anything to the table, some other animes like Saint Seiya had better drama with regards to this, the good thing is the whole theme about the robots actually being giant humans or if you want to call it that, from a biological origin. That was pretty original but then they tied it to a bible plot, which was somewhat good in some episodes but totally awful in the last episodes, so confusing and complicated, and when you realize what is going on - at this point you probably finished your philosophy pHD - then you realize it was all just a pretty bad plot with not enough action for an anime about robots.
My two cents: don't watch this, there are better ways to waste your time. And no, understanding evangelion will not make you look smart, it only means you wasted a lot of time watching something rather confusing. Oh and Sinji or whatever was his name was a pretty weak character, Solid Snake would break his neck in a heart beat.
I have to admit, the episode about the giant black ball that eats the robot was pretty mysterious and good. But after that all went down the drain. That episode was cool, really, worth to watch.
So basically, your complaints are:
It's bad It's really bad Some stuff's good, but other than that it's awful It's confusing
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
What I don't understand is why this is getting its own thread when it's really, really not going to bring any bit of value. It's going to devolve into people arguing about its depth vs people laughing at those people vs people throwing oil onto the fire.
I'm guessing OP saw SAO funtimes with ADT, then recalled the great flamewar of Eva a few months back and wanted to recreate it. MVP Sentenal is already here but idk where the other side is.
@Nagi: my favorite Eva comic.
I didn't even watch Sao and I still laughed at that huge discussion about it. If this thread is played for entertainment value, I would love for all of the major topics to get their own thread.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
What I don't understand is why this is getting its own thread when it's really, really not going to bring any bit of value. It's going to devolve into people arguing about its depth vs people laughing at those people vs people throwing oil onto the fire.
I'm guessing OP saw SAO funtimes with ADT, then recalled the great flamewar of Eva a few months back and wanted to recreate it. MVP Sentenal is already here but idk where the other side is.
@Nagi: my favorite Eva comic.
I didn't even watch Sao and I still laughed at that huge discussion about it. If this thread is played for entertainment value, I would love for all of the major topics to get their own thread.
Watching the end of the series as an eleven year old left me completely and utterly confused.
"Wait, what?" summed up my entire reaction. They were alive, but they weren't. Then there's some alternate realities going on. Most of the episodes had Shinji sitting on a chair experiencing a pretty wild acid trip.
I started watching Neon Genesis Evangelion (along with about 15 other animes) this summer and I'm on episode 22 so just got a few more episodes to go. Great series so far. Definitely one of my favorites for it's unique story. Shinji as a main character is kind of un-noteworthy for me. This summer was my anime summer. Each day I'd spend about 4-5 hours from 1-6 in the morning just watching animes.
Edit: hit post by mistake but I wanted to say that I like threads like this. I hope op may decide to make another thread about more animes. Still watching Clannad AS but I have to say that's my favorite anime of all time so far. I space out my anime watching to just 1 episode a day so I don't exhaust a good anime too quickly, but for Clannad AS, I restrict myself to 1 a week, only on sundays. Should last me a couple more months, and now I look forward to watching a new episode each sunday.
After typing that and reading it over it looks like a bunch of garbled nonsense. Lets just say I really love anime.
On September 13 2012 10:54 MeriaDoKk wrote: I really like NGE, most animes today focus only on fanservice and have 0 substance in them, I know NGE has a lot of fanservice, but its just that, its not the central piece of the story. Im not saying that its "omg so deep", but when I watch it I find it interesting you know, I wanted to keep watching, thats my definition of entertainment.
It may be the definition of entertainment but certainly not of quality.
I actually didn's say its THE definition, just mine. Why do people have to be confrontational just because
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is cool. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating. Theres so much depression and angst and misery..its hard to keep up without feeling down yourself.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
I actually liked all the psychological issues the characters were having. We see four characters, Rei, Shinji, Asuka, and Misato all deal with their inner demons, with varying degrees of success. This is most apparent in the final two episodes. Once you realize its each character grappling with their inner problems, it stops being nonsense. You realize what you're seeing is in each character's mind. The "Congratulations" scene is Shinji coming to terms with his problems, and accepting the world for what it is. The ones who defeat their inner demons are the ones who survive EoE, Asuka and Shinji. I agree all the Christian symbolism is just in there because they thought it was cool. It has no real meaning, as far as I'm concerned.
What characters were named after Japanese ships? I was pretty sure most of the names were just average Japanese names.
I love the show :D only one of the few thing were I am real fanboy! Have to admit that i have never catched the jerking off scene ... shinji is right ... thats fucked up! :D
this is my favorite anime of all time. But I get the impression that it's not quite as liked as I thought it was... but to each his own. But, why now did this thread need to be created? Last time I tried to make an eva thread it was modded because it should have been in the general anime thread.
On September 13 2012 11:25 Nahsom wrote: I love the show :D only one of the few thing were I am real fanboy! Have to admit that i have never catched the jerking off scene ... shinji is right ... thats fucked up! :D
it's in the End of Eva movie, if you only watched the show you wouldn't have seen it
On September 13 2012 11:36 Abenson wrote: The ending still makes zero sense to me.
Thats because they essentially cracked a bible and grabbed as many unrelated terms, concepts and names and warped them into a show that has absolutely nothing to do with the bible, if you just try and ignore the context it really isn't all that complex.
On September 13 2012 11:44 PH wrote: Ugh...Evangelion was so damn good until the ending...I don't care what they or anyone else says...it got botched pretty badly.
The new movie series is pretty awesome, though. I can't wait for it to complete!
For me eva will always rank high just for nostalgia value alone. Re-watching it i notice the flaws but they just dont matter to me. Eva is really one of those that you love it or you hate it, no middle ground it seems. Kinda like that first car or love, while you may move on to bigger or better you will always have fond memorizes. Also remember being a hardcore Shinji x Asuka shipper back in the day. Love or hate you cant though you cant deny the huge impact is has had on the anime genre.
I remember watching a movie of this when I was about 9. It made no sense to me because the timeline kept moving around. It would start out as "10 years ago" then "3 years in the future" then "25 minutes ago" then "2 seconds later" etc.
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
omfg so fucking true.
It is not. It is such an insane close minded commentarie.
Like 80 fking percent of the fictional stories take something of the fking reality, religion, philosophy, phisics, whatever, and take those to a hilarious totally crazy, weird level.
Then you can take that unreal stuff, accept that "world" or just not watch it.
And about NGE the way the characters are is how the series is. If you only accept non-pussy characters as main, then feel sorry for that closed thought. Of curse more active main character could be more natural or interesting, but the whole series parts just fits the story. It's pretty simple, you can take it or not. Eg: my mother can't fking take a single science fiction movie, she just can't get in their head all the fantasy/unreal/futuristic stuff. Oh and your comment about how annoys you the character names taken from the naval ships is another proof of a certain level of limited spectrum (don't feel offended, every person have limited spectrum for certain things. I can't fking take horror movies, are so freaking dumb!).
On September 13 2012 10:01 white_horse wrote: Oh please. NGE is one of those things where they put a bunch of "philosophical" and "meaningful" things to the point where they can't explain what its supposed to mean. What is the meaning of all those biblical and symbolic imagery? Tell me. The animation is just trying to act bigger than it really is, and that is what is annoying about shows like these.
The first two-thirds of the story is actually really great. Interesting characters, storyline, artwork and the creativity is great. And the female characters are hot. But things start to become really really weird after that and it becomes very distasteful to watch. It's not an adult story, but theres too much violence and sex, and shinji, the emo pussy main character, is so un-main character-like throughout the whole story, its frustrating.
Also, the characters' names are taken from Japanese WWII era naval ships, which I find very reprehensible because of the ideological extremism and bloodshed that the 1940's japan represents. It's like naming the characters of a TV show after the names of al-qaeda leaders or lexicon.
omfg so fucking true.
It is not. It is such an insane close minded commentarie.
Like 80 fking percent of the fictional stories take something of the fking reality, religion, philosophy, phisics, whatever, and take those to a hilarious totally crazy, weird level.
Then you can take that unreal stuff, accept that "world" or just not watch it.
And about NGE the way the characters are is how the series is. If you only accept non-pussy characters as main, then feel sorry for that closed thought. Of curse more active main character could be more natural or interesting, but the whole series parts just fits the story. It's pretty simple, you can take it or not. Eg: my mother can't fking take a single science fiction movie, she just can't get in their head all the fantasy/unreal/futuristic stuff. Oh and your comment about how annoys you the character names taken from the naval ships is another proof of a certain level of limited spectrum (don't feel offended, every person have limited spectrum for certain things. I can't fking take horror movies, are so freaking dumb!).
On September 13 2012 10:19 Nevermind86 wrote: The final was terrifucking bad. When I saw it when I was a kid, first they showed a series final without 2 special episodes or movies, etc, so you are left in total confusion because you realize something is missing and it's so unclear what happened in between.
Then when I got to see the special episodes: They were terrifucking bad, it wasn't even funny. I admit the series had its good moments, but overall it has no replay value what so ever, unless you are nostalgic. The whole theme about the pilots and their feelings its pretty cheap stuff to be honest, that can be found everywhere these days and it doesn't bring anything to the table, some other animes like Saint Seiya had better drama with regards to this, the good thing is the whole theme about the robots actually being giant humans or if you want to call it that, from a biological origin. That was pretty original but then they tied it to a bible plot, which was somewhat good in some episodes but totally awful in the last episodes, so confusing and complicated, and when you realize what is going on - at this point you probably finished your philosophy pHD - then you realize it was all just a pretty bad plot with not enough action for an anime about robots.
My two cents: don't watch this, there are better ways to waste your time. And no, understanding evangelion will not make you look smart, it only means you wasted a lot of time watching something rather confusing. Oh and Sinji or whatever was his name was a pretty weak character, Solid Snake would break his neck in a heart beat.
I have to admit, the episode about the giant black ball that eats the robot was pretty mysterious and good. But after that all went down the drain. That episode was cool, really, worth to watch.
I have a hard time with why so many people consider Evangelion a "heavy" series. The last episodes were weird because Sega cut their funding (the episode with the badly drawn Game Gear advertizement marked when Sega cut funding). They did the best they could with what they had to bring what was definitely the best giant robot anime ever to an end...
I mean really what can you expect. They had NOTHING left to finish it with. They had to use something... so the last few episodes are what you get...
It's a beautiful series though rushed finish or not. A+ as far as anime is concerned.
On September 13 2012 10:15 Nagisama wrote: All I got from watching it.
I was waiting for someone to post that.
LOL, that comic is great. I haven't seen Eva since it was on Adult Swim so many years ago. Good shit. Are the Rebuilds on Netflix? If so, I'll be watching them soon. Been meaning to watch them since I first heard about them, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
On September 13 2012 11:44 PH wrote: Ugh...Evangelion was so damn good until the ending...I don't care what they or anyone else says...it got botched pretty badly.
The new movie series is pretty awesome, though. I can't wait for it to complete!
On September 13 2012 09:27 Emnjay808 wrote: I had to see it for myself.
Lol what the fuck...I skipped End of Evangelion, so...what the fuck...lol.
End Of Evangelion was the intended original episodes 25 and 26.
What was aired was the character's thoughts and processes throughout the second half of the movie.
It's recommended that you watch the original two, the movie, and then the the original two again to make better sense of it.
This is the first time I've heard this. Where did you get this information? It makes sense, and your post count is huge, but neither of those things are enough to convince me just yet.
On September 13 2012 10:19 Nevermind86 wrote: The final was terrifucking bad. When I saw it when I was a kid, first they showed a series final without 2 special episodes or movies, etc, so you are left in total confusion because you realize something is missing and it's so unclear what happened in between.
Then when I got to see the special episodes: They were terrifucking bad, it wasn't even funny. I admit the series had its good moments, but overall it has no replay value what so ever, unless you are nostalgic. The whole theme about the pilots and their feelings its pretty cheap stuff to be honest, that can be found everywhere these days and it doesn't bring anything to the table, some other animes like Saint Seiya had better drama with regards to this, the good thing is the whole theme about the robots actually being giant humans or if you want to call it that, from a biological origin. That was pretty original but then they tied it to a bible plot, which was somewhat good in some episodes but totally awful in the last episodes, so confusing and complicated, and when you realize what is going on - at this point you probably finished your philosophy pHD - then you realize it was all just a pretty bad plot with not enough action for an anime about robots.
My two cents: don't watch this, there are better ways to waste your time. And no, understanding evangelion will not make you look smart, it only means you wasted a lot of time watching something rather confusing. Oh and Sinji or whatever was his name was a pretty weak character, Solid Snake would break his neck in a heart beat.
I have to admit, the episode about the giant black ball that eats the robot was pretty mysterious and good. But after that all went down the drain. That episode was cool, really, worth to watch.
I have a hard time with why so many people consider Evangelion a "heavy" series. The last episodes were weird because Sega cut their funding (the episode with the badly drawn Game Gear advertizement marked when Sega cut funding). They did the best they could with what they had to bring what was definitely the best giant robot anime ever to an end...
I mean really what can you expect. They had NOTHING left to finish it with. They had to use something... so the last few episodes are what you get...
It's a beautiful series though. A+ as far as anime is concerned.
Except that the creator himself has defended the ending like it's a masterpiece when it's not.
He never said something like..."eh we had little cash so it's not as good as we planned.." No..the ending is as intended and it's awful.
Also I have a hard time seeing Eva as a mecha anime...I mean yea it had giant robots but they seemed more like a uh...side effect of the plot or something.
Then again I dislike Eva quite a lot. I consider it one of the most overhyped anime of all time. I do however see why some people would like it. It's just not for me.
I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
It was probably a doujinshi/fanfic.
No that's part of the show. It's how Asuna gets owned in EoE or one of the other ova remakes I don't even remember.
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
It was probably a doujinshi/fanfic.
No that's part of the show. It's how Asuna gets owned in EoE or one of the other ova remakes I don't even remember.
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
It was probably a doujinshi/fanfic.
No that's part of the show. It's how Asuna gets owned in EoE or one of the other ova remakes I don't even remember.
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
It was probably a doujinshi/fanfic.
No that's part of the show. It's how Asuna gets owned in EoE or one of the other ova remakes I don't even remember.
That part is so bad and needlessly cruel, I like the masturbation part better (that one makes the most sense to me compared to all the terrible shit that is EoE).
On September 13 2012 10:39 ETisME wrote: it's an amazing anime but a bit confusing at times because not everything is explained clearly. in short, it is more about how the main character started from a 'run away from all trouble', extreme low self esteem with little sense of belonging to anywhere and has a weak presence in life but in general, has a good heart, grew up into a man after dealt with father/son relationship problem, love interest, near death situations.
(final esp showed this very clearly, where he picked the choice)
it's an interesting choice because I might have chosen the other myself lol
Are you sure you watched the same show that I did?
the main purpose of the anime was to express a message to the otaku/youth generation of Japan who were suffering from the declining Japanese economy. Feeling confused/lost about future, living under a strong parent's shadow, little parent's love (harsh asian family), wants to prove his worth but too afraid to commit, hide inside his own world
The religious factor was used merely to make EVA stands out from the rest of robot anime according to the EVA's 2nd director
The message he really wanted to sent was that: Don't be fooled by beautiful imaginations and dreams, learn to see and accept the reality
The final 2 TV espiodes were the messages that he really wanted to sent out but that wasn't done well due to the cut in funds and also the general audiance wanted more moe and expecting big fights. that's why he went on to make the movies to conclude it.
The Japanese words in the final few esp emphasis on 心の補完 which translate to the completion of heart
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
It was probably a doujinshi/fanfic.
No that's part of the show. It's how Asuna gets owned in EoE or one of the other ova remakes I don't even remember.
That part is so bad and needlessly cruel, I like the masturbation part better (that one makes the most sense to me compared to all the terrible shit that is EoE).
Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
isn't the whole masturbation scene in EoE just supposed to be there to say fuck you to haters or something? I can't remember.
Also I love the fights in the series. I can easily see how shinji is just insufferable as a main character,but even though the whining is over the top I did like the development of him.
last thing is who watchs anime for a senario that could happen IRL? I mean I watched things like full metal/bleach/code geass/cowboy bebop, but none of those could happen in real life at all except maybe a small thing with code geass.
This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
On September 13 2012 13:20 oogieogie wrote: isn't the whole masturbation scene in EoE just supposed to be there to say fuck you to haters or something? I can't remember.
Also I love the fights in the series. I can easily see how shinji is just insufferable as a main character,but even though the whining is over the top I did like the development of him.
last thing is who watchs anime for a senario that could happen IRL? I mean I watched things like full metal/bleach/code geass/cowboy bebop, but none of those could happen in real life at all except maybe a small thing with code geass.
Only small thing I could think of that happened in code geass that can happen in real life would be that they all go to a school... or + Show Spoiler +
On September 13 2012 13:20 oogieogie wrote:last thing is who watchs anime for a senario that could happen IRL?
Let me refer you to Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, Nodame Cantabile, Honey & Clover, Space Brothers, Millennium Actress, Moyashimon, and other great anime with perfectly believable, "real-life" settings.
On September 13 2012 13:20 oogieogie wrote: isn't the whole masturbation scene in EoE just supposed to be there to say fuck you to haters or something? I can't remember.
Also I love the fights in the series. I can easily see how shinji is just insufferable as a main character,but even though the whining is over the top I did like the development of him. last thing is who watchs anime for a senario that could happen IRL? I mean I watched things like full metal/bleach/code geass/cowboy bebop, but none of those could happen in real life at all except maybe a small thing with code geass.
The situation is supposed to be REAL HUMAN INTERACTION AND HOW PEOPLE DEAL WITH LIFE and stuff, but what it boils down to is that Anno is a crazy hack swimming in piles and piles of money laughing while everyone buys his newest remake that hes trying to disguise as a sequel by changing like three things and adding a new character.
The point of the jerkoff scene is that Anno is a crazy pervert who likes highschool girls and wants a dutch wife, and also to show that shinji is an irredeemable nutjob.
On September 13 2012 12:26 Serejai wrote: I always thought this was a hentai. Is it not the one where the chick in a red suit that flies a gundam gets raped by tentacles when she pilots it and stuff?
User was temp banned for this post.
I'm pretty sure there's actually an unofficial hentai where shinji gets it on with basically everyone in the show. I don't think it was made by the same people as the show though.
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Disclaimer : I watched NGE too many times and I liked it 14 years ago. Also I disregard whatever came after the original show (EoE, rebuild, meeeeh).
You bring good points, I think I more or less agree with most of them.
Now why people think it's so good ? Basically, because historically NGE brought some ambition and some of the best animation quality to a market of weekly released shonen adaptations. It's no secret that 90's weren't particularly good to anime studios because the Japanese market was in recession and therefore it was hard to get the money needed for projects other than what was the current staple of successful licenses (DBZ, Saint Seiya, Sakura, the list goes on...). And that's why NGE went dry before the end of the show. Despite its flaws, NGE success is solely responsible for a wave of post-NGE mecha (and non mecha) animes.
So it was different, very different from everything else when it was released. It was free of classic shonen morals (woohoo the power of friendship and love !), it had the sexual awkwardness of a teenager and an air of conspiracy. Therefore it was very cool (for a teenager).
Of course, now, almost 20 years later, I can tell you most of NGE is fancy bullshit (especially the mythology). But you can't deny the animation quality, the superb eva and angels design (even the chara design is pretty good if you forget one moment they are all sociopaths) and some of the psychological and realistic elements (despite showing almost no character evolution from that standpoint).
Or maybe I'm nostalgic. But I don't think so cause I'd rather watch some FLCL wtf-ism or some Gurren Lagann popcorn when it comes to good Gainax shit. Also, you won't like RahXephon (it's a copypasta with a better hero and better music).
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
No, I don't like watching teenage angst per se, especially with how badly it's usually done, but evangelion does do that well at least, all of the characters have mental issues and all of them cope in vastly different ways. My friend had it on dvd and introduced me to the show a long long time ago when I was young, and while I do empathize with shinji's hedgehog's dilema and identity crisis a lot at the time I first saw it, by far the most important reason to watch the show is penpen(or pen squared according to the nametag). And I find most giant robot shows focus way too much on unrealistic self-indulgent fight scenes(I just can't get into those when it involves giant robots. If they were regular sized robots I might, but I just don't give a shit about giant robots) to the exclusion of having actually interesting and good characters because of some ridiculous gundam fetish, giant robots just aren't my thing.
On September 13 2000 The GAINAX website wrote: Giant Meteorite Hits Antarctica? (2000.09.13) According to a P.U. Communications report, a gigantic explosion occurred in Antarctica on this date. The cause has yet to be announced, but experts believe that it was caused my a meteorite impact. Earthquakes and tidal waves of extreme magnitude are occurring all over the world. We are already receiving reports of damage in parts of South Africa and Australia. The force of the explosion is estimated to be upward of 18 billion megatons of TNT. Antarctica itself has been almost entirely pulverized, and it is estimated that most of the ice will turn into vapor, which will condense into massive rainfall, which will in turn swamp coastal areas as sea level rises. Evacuation orders are in effect for all such regions around the world. The preceding was a story from the world of Evangelion. Today is when Second Impact happened in series chronology. It is also the birthdate of Nagisa Kaworu.
Note: The following information comes from a handbook given to the audiences during the original release of End Of Evangelion. It is considered canon.
4.6 billions years ago, deep in the milky way galaxy existed "The First Ancesteral Race", a group of alien beings who were practically omnipotent with their advanced technology. Their world faced with extinction, they accepted their fate, but decided to ensure that life would continue to exist in the universe. Placing the soul of one of their race into seven "Seeds Of Life", they scattered them to 7 inhabitable planets before their destruction.
Each equipped with The Dead Sea Scrolls and a Lance Of Longinus, the Seeds Of Life would provide a primordial soup of life to the planets, and begin life.
There were two kinds of Seeds, a Black Moon, and a White Moon. A "Fruit Of Life" White Moon would spawn Angels, strange and bizzare lifeforms to take over the planet and inhabit it. A "Fruit Of Knowledge" Black Moon would spawn intelligent beings, and ultimately lead to the life form forming civilization.
The White Moon landed on Earth first in Antarctica, but for whatever reason a Black Moon landed as well before the White Moon could begin life on Earth.
Sensing what was wrong, the White Moon became inactive to prevent two life forms from beginning at the same time, allowing us humans to emerge from the Black Moon (metaphorically speaking as evolution would have to take place over millions of years).
Jump forward to the year 2000. Seele, a mysterious organization, discover the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Black Moon uncovered in Japan. The Dead Sea Scrolls were instructions on what the Seeds Of Life were and what they did. They also explain what would happen if two Seeds Of Life hapened to meet on the same planet.
Discovering the White Moon in Antartica, Seele sends the Katsuragi Expedition, headed by Misato's father, to initiate Second Impact before Adam, the soul residing in the White Moon awakens. If Adam was able to reawaken, all Lillith (the soul residing in the Black Moon) based life would extinguish right down to the bacterial level.
Using a human "donor" to initiate contact with Adam, they start Second Impact. In the aftermath of the damage, they were able to suspend Adam into an embryonic state, and delay the coming of the Angels.
The White Moon, along with Antarctica is destroyed. The Black Moon, the birthplace of humanity, is quickly taken up by Seele and their U.N. puppet government along with the truth of Second Impact, instead fabricating a story that a meteor hit the planet. On top of the Black Moon, Tokyo 3 is created, a fortress city designed to intercept the Angels that will be coming in 15 years for Lillith, the mother of humanity, in the depth of the Black Moon Geofront.
Finished the first, of what will be many explanations and updates to come to this post.
I'm not sure when I will be done, or if I will ever be done.
If you would like to contribute, make suggestions or point out errors in the OP/Follow up post please feel free to PM me.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Disclaimer : I watched NGE too many times and I liked it 14 years ago. Also I disregard whatever came after the original show (EoE, rebuild, meeeeh).
You bring good points, I think I more or less agree with most of them.
Now why people think it's so good ? Basically, because historically NGE brought some ambition and some of the best animation quality to a market of weekly released shonen adaptations. It's no secret that 90's weren't particularly good to anime studios because the Japanese market was in recession and therefore it was hard to get the money needed for projects other than what was the current staple of successful licenses (DBZ, Saint Seiya, Sakura, the list goes on...). And that's why NGE went dry before the end of the show. Despite its flaws, NGE success is solely responsible for a wave of post-NGE mecha (and non mecha) animes.
So it was different, very different from everything else when it was released. It was free of classic shonen morals (woohoo the power of friendship and love !), it had the sexual awkwardness of a teenager and an air of conspiracy. Therefore it was very cool (for a teenager).
Of course, now, almost 20 years later, I can tell you most of NGE is fancy bullshit (especially the mythology). But you can't deny the animation quality, the superb eva and angels design (even the chara design is pretty good if you forget one moment they are all sociopaths) and some of the psychological and realistic elements (despite showing almost no character evolution from that standpoint).
Or maybe I'm nostalgic. But I don't think so cause I'd rather watch some FLCL wtf-ism or some Gurren Lagann popcorn when it comes to good Gainax shit. Also, you won't like RahXephon (it's a copypasta with a better hero and better music).
Actually that's not true. The 90s weren't kind to Gainax, that's for sure, but the 90s house more Anime that people put on pedestals as masterpieces than any other decade, and several studios made their break and a LOT of money in the 90s. Examples; Serial Experiments Lain, Slayers, Cardcaptor Sakura, The King of Braves GaoGaiGar, Initial D, Dragon Ball, Bubblegum Crisis, Dancouga - Super Beast Machine God, Patlabor, Ranma 1/2, Legend of The Galactic Heroes, Sailor Moon, Armored Trooper Votoms, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Magic Knight Rayearth, Tekkaman Blade, and H2 (Which has the highest ratings of any TV anime of all time besides Doraemon). These were all highly successful franchises, CCS and Sailor Moon revitalized the "magical girl" genre and are real pinnacles of anime history. Initial D actually started a street racing craze and made the government make more stringent traffic laws. Votoms is scene as top 3 of the greatest Real Robot anime of all time, and GaoGaiGar top 3 Super Robot. To top all that off, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is widely scene as the greatest anime of all time, a complete masterpiece.
Maybe an argument can be made for the Super Robot genre, but even then I wouldn't say Eva has really done anything good for the genre. Now we get all these "ohmahgerd ahm not a villin i just want everywan to be one person so we can all be happay" anime, which no one in their right mind like. Code Geass fans for instance choose to ignore that particular part of the show because they know how utterly crap it makes it.
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
No, I don't like watching teenage angst per se, especially with how badly it's usually done, but evangelion does do that well at least, all of the characters have mental issues and all of them cope in vastly different ways. My friend had it on dvd and introduced me to the show a long long time ago when I was young, and while I do empathize with shinji's hedgehog's dilema and identity crisis a lot at the time I first saw it, by far the most important reason to watch the show is penpen(or pen squared according to the nametag). And I find most giant robot shows focus way too much on self-indulgent fight scenes to the exclusion of having actually interesting and good characters because of some ridiculous gundam fetish, giant robots just aren't my thing.
You realize Gundam STARTED the trend of having character development be an important theme in Mecha anime right? That's why the show is so influential, have you seen 0079? Or Armored Trooper VOTOMs? Or any mecha show not Gundam Wing or Evangelion?
On September 13 2012 08:17 Xiphos wrote: I don't get it.
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Do you see what's wrong with the plot?
For the record - there is absolutely nothing wrong with sexually charged gingers.
On September 13 2012 08:17 Xiphos wrote: I don't get it.
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Do you see what's wrong with the plot?
For the record - there is absolutely nothing wrong with sexually charged gingers.
We happen to be quite the lovers.
Over and out.
But she's not sexually charged, she's just a bitch. She's not even a tsundere.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Disclaimer : I watched NGE too many times and I liked it 14 years ago. Also I disregard whatever came after the original show (EoE, rebuild, meeeeh).
You bring good points, I think I more or less agree with most of them.
Now why people think it's so good ? Basically, because historically NGE brought some ambition and some of the best animation quality to a market of weekly released shonen adaptations. It's no secret that 90's weren't particularly good to anime studios because the Japanese market was in recession and therefore it was hard to get the money needed for projects other than what was the current staple of successful licenses (DBZ, Saint Seiya, Sakura, the list goes on...). And that's why NGE went dry before the end of the show. Despite its flaws, NGE success is solely responsible for a wave of post-NGE mecha (and non mecha) animes.
So it was different, very different from everything else when it was released. It was free of classic shonen morals (woohoo the power of friendship and love !), it had the sexual awkwardness of a teenager and an air of conspiracy. Therefore it was very cool (for a teenager).
Of course, now, almost 20 years later, I can tell you most of NGE is fancy bullshit (especially the mythology). But you can't deny the animation quality, the superb eva and angels design (even the chara design is pretty good if you forget one moment they are all sociopaths) and some of the psychological and realistic elements (despite showing almost no character evolution from that standpoint).
Or maybe I'm nostalgic. But I don't think so cause I'd rather watch some FLCL wtf-ism or some Gurren Lagann popcorn when it comes to good Gainax shit. Also, you won't like RahXephon (it's a copypasta with a better hero and better music).
Actually that's not true. The 90s weren't kind to Gainax, that's for sure, but the 90s house more Anime that people put on pedestals as masterpieces than any other decade, and several studios made their break and a LOT of money in the 90s. Examples; Serial Experiments Lain, Slayers, Cardcaptor Sakura, The King of Braves GaoGaiGar, Initial D, Dragon Ball, Bubblegum Crisis, Dancouga - Super Beast Machine God, Patlabor, Ranma 1/2, Legend of The Galactic Heroes, Sailor Moon, Armored Trooper Votoms, Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Magic Knight Rayearth, Tekkaman Blade, and H2 (Which has the highest ratings of any TV anime of all time besides Doraemon). These were all highly successful franchises, CCS and Sailor Moon revitalized the "magical girl" genre and are real pinnacles of anime history. Initial D actually started a street racing craze and made the government make more stringent traffic laws. Votoms is scene as top 3 of the greatest Real Robot anime of all time, and GaoGaiGar top 3 Super Robot. To top all that off, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is widely scene as the greatest anime of all time, a complete masterpiece.
Maybe an argument can be made for the Super Robot genre, but even then I wouldn't say Eva has really done anything good for the genre. Now we get all these "ohmahgerd ahm not a villin i just want everywan to be one person so we can all be happay" anime, which no one in their right mind like. Code Geass fans for instance choose to ignore that particular part of the show because they know how utterly crap it makes it.
On September 13 2012 13:32 Fyrewolf wrote: This was one of the first anime I ever watched. I don't usually like giant robot stuff. But I like this show because isn't about giant robots, but actually about the characters, about teenagers and all the angst and identity crisis and issues growing up they go through. Though honestly, I think I like episodes 25 and 26 more than End of Evangelion. EoE is just fuckin weird, at least 25 and 26 make coherent sense, really focusing on the internal mental indentity battles of the main characters. EoE crams in random shit that just doesn't need to be there or add to the story(for example, like the 1 or 2 lines on of the side technicians makes about misato).
Whatever happened to the live-action version they were going to make(with John Woo as producer)? Is it still in development hell?
So you watch the show, because you like watching teenage angst?
Also, giant robot anime are rarely ever about the robots, but are about the characters and their story. Evangelion is hardly unique in using giant robots as a plot device, seeing as how the vast majority of mecha anime simply uses robots as a plot device.
No, I don't like watching teenage angst per se, especially with how badly it's usually done, but evangelion does do that well at least, all of the characters have mental issues and all of them cope in vastly different ways. My friend had it on dvd and introduced me to the show a long long time ago when I was young, and while I do empathize with shinji's hedgehog's dilema and identity crisis a lot at the time I first saw it, by far the most important reason to watch the show is penpen(or pen squared according to the nametag). And I find most giant robot shows focus way too much on self-indulgent fight scenes to the exclusion of having actually interesting and good characters because of some ridiculous gundam fetish, giant robots just aren't my thing.
You realize Gundam STARTED the trend of having character development be an important theme in Mecha anime right? That's why the show is so influential, have you seen 0079? Or Armored Trooper VOTOMs? Or any mecha show not Gundam Wing or Evangelion?
I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
On September 13 2012 13:48 laLAlA[uC] wrote: o_o Wow. How has it taken so long for this to get its own thread
I am surprised the mods let it have its own thread. I much as i think some of the veterans of the TLADT hate seeing eve in there(I dont think they are the biggest fans xp), i thought it fit fine in there. I mean even threads for the big 3 have a hard time staying alive.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
I really like how you end this: "there has to be SOMETHING to make me care." For those of us that like the anime, it's because we DO care about some parts of it. Shinji is a protagonist who people can attach themselves to not because he's a badass, not because he's unique, but because he's experiencing life at a pace he doesn't want it to happen at. I used to hate on it because it got too sexual and wierd for what I expected was a mecha anime, but the thing is, it really ISN'T a mecha anime. The EVA are just there to help kill the concept of mecha anime, because they were so popular. It's more about growing up, and simultaneously falling apart.
This is probably why mechanime don't happen anymore. The bandwagoning brought tons of people to watch Evangelion, which got them the viewerbase that they needed to complete the series. That's why it's so normal and simple for the first 15-16 episodes. Once Shinji and unit-01 are consumed by Leliel (the shadow in the sky), Anno began to take off the disguise the series had been under for the earlier portions.
Back to why people like the series: Shinji is a whiny little prick. We can all agree on that, I think, but he has valid reasons for it. If you were abandoned by your dad when you were ~7-8, would you be normal? If you had to live with strangers all your life? And then be suddenly thrust into saving the world? I wouldn't be taking that easily, no matter how many hot girls they threw at me. Neither would anyone reading this, and the few exceptions damn well wouldn't have been able to do it when they were 15, and don't pretend like you could. The fate of humanity is a burden too great for so few people to bear, and when you consider that their lives were all turned upside-down at least once before becoming pilots (Asuka's mom going insane, Rei... dying..., and Shinji being abandoned) you can begin to understand why they're all so fucked up even as the series begins.
The end of the series is hard for people to accept, but it's a masterpiece considering their resources. I hate watching EoE because I believe episodes 25/26 have a far bigger bang. That's not saying EoE is bad- seeing Unit-01 ascend and cause 3rd impact was both traumatizing and incredible (I watched the whole series freshman year of high school, after stumbling on the first few episodes on Adult Swim years before). The ending was such a mindfuck I had to look up the implications, and it makes sense now. Asuka and Shinji survive 3rd impact because of their huge self-loathing, but the fact that the two are together implies that they're supposed to fix their problems together. Earlier in the mindfuck portions of the movie, Shinji is talking to Asuka in the apartment, and you can see that it's possible for the two to save each other from themselves, but it doesn't happen. Their survival on post impact Earth is like purgatory: they have to wait for their salvation, but they're unaware that salvation lies in their companions. That's why EoE is so beautiful- it tells you that so well with so few words.
In episodes 25/26, it's all about the dialogue, not the visuals. Watching a subbed version will make it so much harder for you to understand the meaning behind it all, because you aren't familiar with the tones and small vocal cues they give. In the dubbed version, you can notice even small things, which helps you understand the character's feelings. I love the ending of 26, because it's a congratulations to Shinji for overcoming his self-loathing.
Soo why does this have its own thread again? Anything wrong with discussimg eva in TLADT? Anyway i have it on hold at like ep eleven since i dont find the show entertaining at all.
Japaneese know old, secret truth of any succesfull military campaign against giant monsters: there's no better military pilot than a teen with a serious mental disorder.
Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
holy-shit-did-he-actually-just-jack-off-to-a-hospitalised-girl. I hope they keep that part in the remake, haven't gone around to watching it yet, but will.
But seriously what the hell happened at the end? He ends up alive in a sea of red with the redhead and starts strangling her again?
Reminds me I need to rewatch the series one day. Watched it when I was younger and actually didn't have a clear idea actually what was going on. Forget how different series seem rewatching them especially as I get older.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
She doesn't rape him.
What happens is that Asuka tried to force herself (not sexually though) on Shinji on two seperate occasions:
Once by intentionally sleeping right next to him after she told him that she was tired of sleeping near him (for the purposes of training). She put her head right next to Shinji's and exposes her lips, pretending to be (or actually was as she said "momma" afterwards) asleep so Shinji would take the opportunity. However Shinji hesitates at the last minute and is notably scarred by the incident (though he doesn't mention it until much later in the series).
Later on she does practically the same time, only awake and stating that the kiss would only be to "experiment" what it could be like. Afterwards she lies that she never wanted it in the first place and that she was out of her mind.
Misato and Kaworu are the only ones who have made any sexual approach towards Shinji.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
On September 13 2012 15:49 Omnidroid wrote: holy-shit-did-he-actually-just-jack-off-to-a-hospitalised-girl. I hope they keep that part in the remake, haven't gone around to watching it yet, but will.
But seriously what the hell happened at the end? He ends up alive in a sea of red with the redhead and starts strangling her again?
End of Evangelion was weird. From what I got from it, Gendo made Rei and Kaworu fuse together and become God so he could have his own version of 3rd Impact that would res his dead wife, but SEELE wanted to fuse together everybody on earth into that fanta you see, so they're all one consciousness (the Angels were products of Adam and not Eve, we were the latter, and wanted to replace us Eve spawn with themselves). Rei decides yeah nah, fuck Gendo mang and bit him in two, and gave God powers to Unit 01, which in turn gave them to Shinji since he was it's pilot, and he decided that if you didn't want to get orange slimed you didn't have to because he's an indecisive bitch, so he crawls out of the post-primordial goop. The Asuka with him contains traces of Asuka, Rei and Misato in her apparently. Everyone who doesn't wanna be goo can climb out whenever. This is why I think Rebuild is a sequel to End.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
you just sound like you didnt even want to bother to watch the series in the first place.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
In that scene, Shinji and Asuka just figured out that Kaji had died/had been killed. Without Misato to prevent them from butting heads, Shinji exposes himself and offers to help her and give his companionship. Asuka, still bitter about having been defeated and replaced as an Eva pilot by Shinji and Kaworu rejects Shinji and starts a verbal assault on him, claiming that Shinji is only using her as an escape for his relationship issues with Misato, Rei and his father. Shinji starts to beg Asuka to help him, but Asuka forces him on the ground, accidentally letting a hot coffee pot pour over him. Unconcerned with his burns, she continues saying that he's a selfish prick. As she starts to leave Shinji gets up and throwing things in the kitchen as he finally starts to lose it. He begins to have a panic attack, probably due to his issues with being abandoned by his father, and starts screaming at Asuka to not do the same. When Asuka refuses him, he strangles her.
This is why Shinji is shown to be hanging out with Kaworu in the original episodes, and why Asuka appeared to be completely traumatized in the beginning of the movie.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
The original ending was a byproduct of his depression, his company circling the drain and weird as shit anti-depressants. Like, even the VA's were asking what the hell he was on.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
On September 13 2012 15:28 RockIronrod wrote: Shinji's a messed up kid because he's got legit daddy/abandonment/self-esteem issues compounded by the fact that he's got the worlds fate on his shoulders, lives with an abusive ginger who rapes him at some point, and is directly responsible for a lot of people's houses being destroyed and family being injured as a result of his first fight. I'd rather him not be a pussy, which is why I fucking loved the end of 2.22, but it makes sense. I mean, at least other shounen MCs get some encouragement from their team when they do something cool, Shinji saves the world and gets a blank stare from his dad and beaten up at school. Which is retarded because if Gendo gave him the smallest bit of positive reinforcement, Shinji would've been more obedient than Rei. Hell, the only person to show him any sort of love was fucking Kaworu, and Shinji had to pop pop a nigga so that just ended even worse for him.
Please elaborate. I want details.
It's not explicitly shown, but it happens in one of those montages in End of Evangelion.
In that scene, Shinji and Asuka just figured out that Kaji had died/had been killed. Without Misato to prevent them from butting heads, Shinji exposes himself and offers to help her and give his companionship. Asuka, still bitter about having been defeated and replaced as an Eva pilot by Shinji and Kaworu rejects Shinji and starts a verbal assault on him, claiming that Shinji is only using her as an escape for his relationship issues with Misato, Rei and his father. Shinji starts to beg Asuka to help him, but Asuka forces him on the ground, accidentally letting a hot coffee pot pour over him. Unconcerned with his burns, she continues saying that he's a selfish prick. As she starts to leave Shinji gets up and throwing things in the kitchen as he finally starts to lose it. He begins to have a panic attack, probably due to his issues with being abandoned by his father, and starts screaming at Asuka to not do the same. When Asuka refuses him, he strangles her.
This is why Shinji is shown to be hanging out with Kaworu in the original episodes, and why Asuka appeared to be completely traumatized in the beginning of the movie.
I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
On September 13 2012 16:09 RockIronrod wrote: I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
The original 25-26 episodes are the characters exploring each other as they are "complemented" through instrumentality. Asuka is examined by the other characters, and is forced to confront her psychological issues stemming from her low self esteem, having to suffer watching and hearing her mother think of a doll as her child rather than her before she hangs herself in front of Asuka.
Nothing actually happens while they're in the sea of life... and to be honest Asuka and Rei and just shown to be naked a lot.
The original ending was a byproduct of his depression, his company circling the drain and weird as shit anti-depressants. Like, even the VA's were asking what the hell he was on.
Dont even get me startet on Spencer , Grant and Lee. the english synchronization today stands as one of the worst in anime history. never watch that , they totally messed up the characters.
The original ending was a byproduct of his depression, his company circling the drain and weird as shit anti-depressants. Like, even the VA's were asking what the hell he was on.
Dont even get me startet on Spencer , Grant and Lee. the english synchronization today stands as one of the worst in anime history. never watch that , they totally messed up the characters.
Give them credit for being alot better in the rebuild series ^^.
the animation of the original series was good, the movies have even better. the ending sucked, but i guess this reboot is going to rectify that, so where do we stand?
characters with A LOT of issues, borderline psychos even, good animation, good fanservice and a possibility of an real ending? i guess i will watch the movies when all 4 are out & subbed, but until then i will stay away from evangelion, because the original series is by no means a favortite of mine.
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
On September 13 2012 16:09 RockIronrod wrote: I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
Wait, what?
I completely missed that, I thought it was the Shinji strangling Asuka scene that was that.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
you just sound like you didnt even want to bother to watch the series in the first place.
But you can do it so much better. There are shows like Serial Experiments Lain or even Darker Than Black, which do a lot better job at that. And if you want normal people in abnormal situation (and mecha) you can just as well watch Visions of Escaflowne, which is a gazillion times more enjoyable than this bullshit.
Damn, I so hate all this shows about whiny kids... I didn't like NGE and I thought that Code Geass was absolute rubbish thanks to the shitty characters in it.
On September 13 2012 16:09 RockIronrod wrote: I was referring to those weird flashes in the second half of the movie, a bit after the scene where Shinji watches Misato and Kaiji have sex if I recall correctly. It was just random flashes of Asuka and Shinji and in one frame she's shown to be breathing heavily and from what we can see of her shoulders, she's not wearing any clothes.
Wait, what?
I completely missed that, I thought it was the Shinji strangling Asuka scene that was that.
Rereading that post, he's talking about the retake the movie gave on the scene mentioned in the latter:
On September 13 2012 15:57 Gamegene wrote: She doesn't rape him.
What happens is that Asuka tried to force herself (not sexually though) on Shinji on two seperate occasions:
Once by intentionally sleeping right next to him after she told him that she was tired of sleeping near him (for the purposes of training). She put her head right next to Shinji's and exposes her lips, pretending to be (or actually was as she said "momma" afterwards) asleep so Shinji would take the opportunity. However Shinji hesitates at the last minute and is notably scarred by the incident (though he doesn't mention it until much later in the series).
Later on she does practically the same time, only awake and stating that the kiss would only be to "experiment" what it could be like. Afterwards she lies that she never wanted it in the first place and that she was out of her mind.
Misato and Kaworu are the only ones who have made any sexual approach towards Shinji.
I watched the two new movies and I feel like I missed the series... should I watch the series insted? I was hopeing that the remake movies will be the same as the series and now finding out that it's less dark or harder I feel bad :\
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
On September 13 2012 16:49 Flonomenalz wrote: NGE definitely changed the anime industry though, although... I'm not exactly sure it was for the better.
It drove FLCL and TTGL. That's good enough for me.
Watch the series first. Don't expect to fall in love the first time through, though. It takes some patience to truly become a fanboy. Also, if Shinji actually has balls in the reboots I'm hesitant to watch. I'll do it anyways, probably will post thoughts tomorrow or another day.
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
you just sound like you didnt even want to bother to watch the series in the first place.
But you can do it so much better. There are shows like Serial Experiments Lain or even Darker Than Black, which do a lot better job at that. And if you want normal people in abnormal situation (and mecha) you can just as well watch Visions of Escaflowne, which is a gazillion times more enjoyable than this bullshit.
Damn, I so hate all this shows about whiny kids... I didn't like NGE and I thought that Code Geass was absolute rubbish thanks to the shitty characters in it.
Im not sure how your compairing Darker than Black with Evangelion. Character wise Hei and Contracters in general are pretty unrelatable.
On September 13 2012 16:49 Flonomenalz wrote: NGE definitely changed the anime industry though, although... I'm not exactly sure it was for the better.
It drove FLCL and TTGL. That's good enough for me.
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
On September 13 2012 13:01 Sentenal wrote: Evangelion is pretty bad. But before I get to why its bad, I'll be fair, and highlight the good parts of the show real quick. Also note that everything I'm about to say is simply talking about the TV Series and End of Evangelion, not Rebuild.
One, at least the first two thirds of it look nice. The battle scenes are (mostly) great, and the mechanical detail they put into the series is really good. EVA-01 going berserk was good. Asuka's fight in EoE was really cool. But that is essentially where the good things stop.
Shinji Ikari is the most insufferable main character of any anime I have ever watched. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this, even the people who somehow like the show. Hes a spineless little wimp with daddy issues. That in itself, wouldn't be crippling. Often times main characters start this way, and they grow and develop over the course of the show. Shinji? Nope. Shinji eventually has a mental break down, and resets. As a note, if people cite this as a reason why its a "deconstruction", I'm going to laugh at you. Anyway, never once was he enjoyable to watch, unless you happen to take pleasure watching an autistic kid with daddy issues struggle and suffer in his circumstances, and eventually crack.
There are 3 different "parts" to the plot of Evangelion. One is that the plot is filled with tons of pointless religious symbolism. Anno himself has said this was done because it "sounds complicated". So we can strike that right off as fluff. The next part can basically be summed up as a Monster of the Week Super Robot anime, at least on the surface. Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie. Recently in the Anime Discussion Thread (where topics like this belong, btw), Shauni put forth a new argument about this part. He argued that Evangelion was good because it "brings something new and stimulating to your mind, [and you] benefiting from the added experience and perception." And if you think that Evangelion is something new and stimulating to your mind, well, congrats, but I can't agree. We will completely put aside whether or not any of the events that happen in it are "new" or not. What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
you just sound like you didnt even want to bother to watch the series in the first place.
But you can do it so much better. There are shows like Serial Experiments Lain or even Darker Than Black, which do a lot better job at that. And if you want normal people in abnormal situation (and mecha) you can just as well watch Visions of Escaflowne, which is a gazillion times more enjoyable than this bullshit.
Damn, I so hate all this shows about whiny kids... I didn't like NGE and I thought that Code Geass was absolute rubbish thanks to the shitty characters in it.
Im not sure how your compairing Darker than Black with Evangelion. Character wise Hei and Contracters in general are pretty unrelatable.
It's not about relation between the shows. I personally thought that the concept of obeissances was great and added some nice depth to the characters (like the singing lady who had to eat cigarattes). The backround was much cooler too, and it kept you genuinely interested in the show, unlike NGE where "here comes next monster our unlikable protagonist must face" thingy got stale pretty quickly and then it turned into some sick drama. It had potential to be great, but this would require the redesigning of characters and pacing in the show.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
Wow I just love it when people talk out their asses about things they have no idea about.
Gainax is one of the most successful modern production studios, with recent commercial successes like Gunbuster vs Daibuster, Gurren Lagann, Panty and Stocking and This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. The current president of the company is Yamaga Hiroyuki, one of the original founding members; other founding members still on staff include Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi. Sure is all the original owners and producers leaving the company with the new studio completely destroyed.
Oh wait.
The one thing you're right about is that the original ending is a byproduct of his depression and Gainax failing because Eva didn't make any money until about 3 months after it's release when it became a cult hit and then later started selling well in the general market.
On September 13 2012 16:49 Flonomenalz wrote: NGE definitely changed the anime industry though, although... I'm not exactly sure it was for the better.
It drove FLCL and TTGL. That's good enough for me.
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Rebuild is different. I absolutely love the first two rebuild films, but in a different way than the series. The series is much more of an animated psychoanalysis, while the films are pretty much films. They still have the great characters (though there is by far not enough time to develop them as much as in the series), but the story feels like the main focus of the films.
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Rebuild is different. I absolutely love the first two rebuild films, but in a different way than the series. The series is much more of an animated psychoanalysis, while the films are pretty much films. They still have the great characters (though there is by far not enough time to develop them as much as in the series), but the story feels like the main focus of the films.
Again Rebuild is a sequal. Not a remake. Its assumed you watched the tv series where they did all the character development
One of the most mindfucking things I have ever read as a manga as a 11 or 13 year old. I don't remember which one but fuck this scared me to pieces watching the show and it really really made me think about how everyone could be taken apart pieec by piece and completely smashed to pieces.
It still scares me, the black scene where each of the characters gets deconstructed as you call it little by little, one by one is one of the few things which would really hurt my stomache to rewatch.
even as I say that, I would definitly recommend everyone. I know that I definitly could sympathize with alot of the characters angst and misery, even if it was exxagerated from what I knew of from my own experiences.
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Rebuild is different. I absolutely love the first two rebuild films, but in a different way than the series. The series is much more of an animated psychoanalysis, while the films are pretty much films. They still have the great characters (though there is by far not enough time to develop them as much as in the series), but the story feels like the main focus of the films.
Again Rebuild is a sequal. Not a remake. Its assumed you watched the tv series where they did all the character development
Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 17:33 moofang wrote: Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
On September 13 2012 17:33 moofang wrote: Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
If you actually read an Eva thread on /a/ or read a thread on 2ch you'd know it's not a for sure thing. There's a lot of debate on it. There's an archive on foolz of someone doing a really long debunk of that picture you posted, the only thing he couldn't explain was the homolust guy's this time and again, and just that doesn't prove anything. It's likely that movie 3 will confirm one way or another. The only thing for sure is that Anno is still a nutjob.
On September 13 2012 17:33 moofang wrote: Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
If you actually read an Eva thread on /a/ or read a thread on 2chan you'd know it's not a for sure thing. There's a lot of debate on it. There's an archive on foolz of someone doing a really long debunk of that picture you posted, the only thing he couldn't explain was the homolust guy's this time and again, and just that doesn't prove anything. It's likely that movie 3 will confirm one way or another.
it's kind of blatant when you have a new Lillith, and then the original series's Lilith on the moon... where a random bloodstain happens to be. Plus there are subtle hints are freaking everywhere. The soundtrack for Rebuild has the original Rei themes labeled as Rei IV and Rei V
I have the box nr. 0732 out of 2999 of the limited remastered DVD release over ten years ago.
I watched it four or five time since. I never got it fully. Still I don't know if I should watch a new version of NGE because it could destroy my understanding so far of the original series.
I think some people give NGE way too much credit. Some of the symbolism and names really don't mean much of anything; don't make too much of the plot either.
The real successes come from the visual composition and pacing (at times, and even in spite of—or because of?—the budget issues). There are some moments and ideas that are on a level far above most shows, but it's not like that all the time.
I've never watched the series/movie/remakes etc in their entirety and from all the summaries I've read, I probably would get just pissed off and annoyed by the kind of character approach taken. However, reading up and watching random clips was pretty interesting. Whether or not it's legitimate some of the random theories and little descriptions can be quite interesting to read, though it's probably best I limit it to just clips, plot summaries, and discussions.
From what I watched, I'd agree that the kind of visual styles and short-term pacing seem to be quite good (at least in small doses).
On September 13 2012 17:33 moofang wrote: Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
If you actually read an Eva thread on /a/ or read a thread on 2ch you'd know it's not a for sure thing. There's a lot of debate on it. There's an archive on foolz of someone doing a really long debunk of that picture you posted, the only thing he couldn't explain was the homolust guy's this time and again, and just that doesn't prove anything. It's likely that movie 3 will confirm one way or another. The only thing for sure is that Anno is still a nutjob.
How was it debunked? There are alot of things that scream sequal. This is the first time I saw that image but you can tell just by watching 2.0 that its probably a sequal.Its pretty Anooish
On September 13 2012 17:56 [F_]aths wrote: I have the box nr. 0732 out of 2999 of the limited remastered DVD release over ten years ago.
I watched it four or five time since. I never got it fully. Still I don't know if I should watch a new version of NGE because it could destroy my understanding so far of the original series.
Some question:
- Has Maya any backstory?
- Who actually shot Kaji?
Unfortunately, Maya has not received any proper characterization like the rest of her fellow bridge bunnies. Besides being infatuated with Ritsuko (shown during Third Impact), she's just a girl who looks like Shinji.
It was once a popular theory that Misato killed Kaji, but Anno himself denied it. Most likely, it was just a special agent under NERV from intellegence, although the manga (which itself is a different continuity) has Gendo shooting him.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
Wow I just love it when people talk out their asses about things they have no idea about.
Gainax is one of the most successful modern production studios, with recent commercial successes like Gunbuster vs Daibuster, Gurren Lagann, Panty and Stocking and This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. The current president of the company is Yamaga Hiroyuki, one of the original founding members; other founding members still on staff include Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi. Sure is all the original owners and producers leaving the company with the new studio completely destroyed.
Oh wait.
The one thing you're right about is that the original ending is a byproduct of his depression and Gainax failing because Eva didn't make any money until about 3 months after it's release when it became a cult hit and then later started selling well in the general market.
The last original thing (read: not based on a manga, light novel or video game not produced by Gainax) was Panty & Stocking, 2 years ago. Gurren Lagann was 2007, This Ugly Yet Beautiful world was 2004, and Gunbuster vs Diebuster was 2006. You've got a really weird definition of "recent." The only thing they're doing right now is a Medaka Box adaption. Anno resigned from Gainax in 2007. Sadamoto and Higuchi both left with him and are now part of his new Studio Khara, which is collaborating with Gainax for the Rebuild movies. Hiroyuki is the only remaining founder, and he is by far the least capable out of all of them in my opinion, though that's completely based on that one episode of TTGL he directed. I love Gainax, it's the studio that's created like, 5 out of my top 10 animes, but it's not what it used to be.
On September 13 2012 17:56 [F_]aths wrote: I have the box nr. 0732 out of 2999 of the limited remastered DVD release over ten years ago.
I watched it four or five time since. I never got it fully. Still I don't know if I should watch a new version of NGE because it could destroy my understanding so far of the original series.
Some question:
- Has Maya any backstory?
- Who actually shot Kaji?
Unfortunately, Maya has not received any proper characterization like the rest of her fellow bridge bunnies. Besides being infatuated with Ritsuko (shown during Third Impact), she's just a girl who looks like Shinji.
It was once a popular theory that Misato killed Kaji, but Anno himself denied it. Most likely, it was just a special agent under NERV from intellegence, although the manga (which itself is a different continuity) has Gendo shooting him.
Maya's character is a bit unclear to me because I guess only hand-picked personell is allowed to be in the center of NERV operation; the other characters have a background which explains why they fight the angels.
Speaking of bunnies, I don't know if I am supposed to find Rei hot. Before her origin was revealed (was it?) I considered her the hottie of the series. The scene where Shinji visited her and saw her underwear in the room, was interpreted by me this way: "Shinji is a boy but now learns about the sex appeal of woman." Later I strongly believed that Rei is his sister, giving that scene a bit more strangeness. But then I got trolled.
The killing of Kaji puzzles me because he greeted his killer. It is unclear for me what does it mean. Did he consider him (or her?) a friend and was killed in cold blood, or did he knew that he stepped over a line and needs to be killed so that his kind greeting was to say "no hard feelings, I know you must kill me". For me, this question is even more important than to know who actually shot him.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
Wow I just love it when people talk out their asses about things they have no idea about.
Gainax is one of the most successful modern production studios, with recent commercial successes like Gunbuster vs Daibuster, Gurren Lagann, Panty and Stocking and This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. The current president of the company is Yamaga Hiroyuki, one of the original founding members; other founding members still on staff include Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi. Sure is all the original owners and producers leaving the company with the new studio completely destroyed.
Oh wait.
The one thing you're right about is that the original ending is a byproduct of his depression and Gainax failing because Eva didn't make any money until about 3 months after it's release when it became a cult hit and then later started selling well in the general market.
The last original thing (read: not based on a manga, light novel or video game not produced by Gainax) was Panty & Stocking, 2 years ago. Gurren Lagann was 2007, This Ugly Yet Beautiful world was 2004, and Gunbuster vs Diebuster was 2006. You've got a really weird definition of "recent." The only thing they're doing right now is a Medaka Box adaption. Anno resigned from Gainax in 2007. Sadamoto and Higuchi both left with him and are now part of his new Studio Khara, which is collaborating with Gainax for the Rebuild movies. Hiroyuki is the only remaining founder, and he is by far the least capable out of all of them in my opinion, though that's completely based on that one episode of TTGL he directed. I love Gainax, it's the studio that's created like, 5 out of my top 10 animes, but it's not what it used to be.
There are a LOT of studios that haven't made any money and barely stay afloat for the past ten years when the first anime bubble popped, Gainax has had a lot of success and managed to more than stay afloat. They have the majority of their resources focused on Rebuild so yes they haven't put out a whole lot other than the TTGL movie and a couple normal cour shows with little production value. Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi are all working on Rebuild with Khara but it's basically a Gainax sub-studio at this point so I don't really see the argument. Sure, technically they're not working with Gainax but, semantics.
On September 13 2012 17:56 [F_]aths wrote: I have the box nr. 0732 out of 2999 of the limited remastered DVD release over ten years ago.
I watched it four or five time since. I never got it fully. Still I don't know if I should watch a new version of NGE because it could destroy my understanding so far of the original series.
Some question:
- Has Maya any backstory?
- Who actually shot Kaji?
Unfortunately, Maya has not received any proper characterization like the rest of her fellow bridge bunnies. Besides being infatuated with Ritsuko (shown during Third Impact), she's just a girl who looks like Shinji.
It was once a popular theory that Misato killed Kaji, but Anno himself denied it. Most likely, it was just a special agent under NERV from intellegence, although the manga (which itself is a different continuity) has Gendo shooting him.
Maya's character is a bit unclear to me because I guess only hand-picked personell is allowed to be in the center of NERV operation; the other characters have a background which explains why they fight the angels.
Speaking of bunnies, I don't know if I am supposed to find Rei hot. Before her origin was revealed (was it?) I considered her the hottie of the series. The scene where Shinji visited her and saw her underwear in the room, I interpreted it this way: "Shinji is a boy but now learns about the sex appeal of woman." Later I strongly believed that Rei is his sister, giving that scene a bit more strangeness. But then I got trolled.
The killing of Kaji puzzles me because he greeted his killer. It is unclear for me what does it mean. Did he consider him (or her?) a friend and was killed in cold blood, or did he knew that he stepped over a line and needs to be killed so that his kind greeting was to say "no hard feelings, I know you must kill me". For me, this question is even more important than to know who actually shot him.
Anno originally intended for Rei to be a terrifying character in the series, and for audiences to be repulsed by the fact that she is a half human, salvaged from Yui Ikari's remains, the mother of Shinji.
Instead she is one of the most popular characters with numerous anime series blatantly copying her design and quiet perseonality and many fans infatuated with her (she has the most figurine sales of all the Evangelion characters, including the Evas themselves).
I think that you hit it dead on the money, I think Kaji was smart enough to know that he had dug too deep, and had already buried himself in a hole. His personality leads you to believe that he would accept and even welcome death, especially once he learns what Seele intended to do to overcome and master it.
On September 13 2012 17:33 moofang wrote: Wow I didn't know there was an eva thread on TL I've always entertained the idea that Rebuild could be a sequel, and there are clues that seem to indicate such in the Rebuild films, but is this actually confirmed at the moment or just conjecture?
Also FWIW, I wrote at length about the two Rebuild films comparing it with the original in my blog, so I'm gonna shamelessly plug it here in the hopes that it will be relevant to all your interests:
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
If you actually read an Eva thread on /a/ or read a thread on 2ch you'd know it's not a for sure thing. There's a lot of debate on it. There's an archive on foolz of someone doing a really long debunk of that picture you posted, the only thing he couldn't explain was the homolust guy's this time and again, and just that doesn't prove anything. It's likely that movie 3 will confirm one way or another. The only thing for sure is that Anno is still a nutjob.
its pretty likely, given gainaxs history for tweests
On September 13 2012 17:56 [F_]aths wrote: I have the box nr. 0732 out of 2999 of the limited remastered DVD release over ten years ago.
I watched it four or five time since. I never got it fully. Still I don't know if I should watch a new version of NGE because it could destroy my understanding so far of the original series.
Some question:
- Has Maya any backstory?
- Who actually shot Kaji?
Unfortunately, Maya has not received any proper characterization like the rest of her fellow bridge bunnies. Besides being infatuated with Ritsuko (shown during Third Impact), she's just a girl who looks like Shinji.
It was once a popular theory that Misato killed Kaji, but Anno himself denied it. Most likely, it was just a special agent under NERV from intellegence, although the manga (which itself is a different continuity) has Gendo shooting him.
Maya's character is a bit unclear to me because I guess only hand-picked personell is allowed to be in the center of NERV operation; the other characters have a background which explains why they fight the angels.
Speaking of bunnies, I don't know if I am supposed to find Rei hot. Before her origin was revealed (was it?) I considered her the hottie of the series. The scene where Shinji visited her and saw her underwear in the room, I interpreted it this way: "Shinji is a boy but now learns about the sex appeal of woman." Later I strongly believed that Rei is his sister, giving that scene a bit more strangeness. But then I got trolled.
The killing of Kaji puzzles me because he greeted his killer. It is unclear for me what does it mean. Did he consider him (or her?) a friend and was killed in cold blood, or did he knew that he stepped over a line and needs to be killed so that his kind greeting was to say "no hard feelings, I know you must kill me". For me, this question is even more important than to know who actually shot him.
Anno originally intended for Rei to be a terrifying character in the series, and for audiences to be repulsed by the fact that she is a half human, salvaged from Yui Ikari's remains, the mother of Shinji.
Hell, just listen to her leitmoif.
It's clear that there's a very disturbing, and even alien presence in it. It's quite unnatural.
NGE was actually the first series that got me into watching anime (at least that I knew was an anime). Of course I watched DBZ and the likes when I was a lot younger, but that seemed different.
I remember about 10+ years back they had anime nights on some TV channel here (VOX, for the germans) and I always stayed up late up to 3-4 am to watch. They even showed the animes in japanese with german subtitles. That's when I saw NGE and was fascinated by it. Also saw stuff like Record of Lodoss War and Blue Submarine No.6. there...
I fondly remember watching the last episodes while I was pretty sleepy and I was totally confused.
Since then I enjoy a lot of stuff made by Gainax (KareKano, Mahoromatic, Otaku no video, FLCL, etc.)
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
Wow I just love it when people talk out their asses about things they have no idea about.
Gainax is one of the most successful modern production studios, with recent commercial successes like Gunbuster vs Daibuster, Gurren Lagann, Panty and Stocking and This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. The current president of the company is Yamaga Hiroyuki, one of the original founding members; other founding members still on staff include Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi. Sure is all the original owners and producers leaving the company with the new studio completely destroyed.
Oh wait.
The one thing you're right about is that the original ending is a byproduct of his depression and Gainax failing because Eva didn't make any money until about 3 months after it's release when it became a cult hit and then later started selling well in the general market.
The last original thing (read: not based on a manga, light novel or video game not produced by Gainax) was Panty & Stocking, 2 years ago. Gurren Lagann was 2007, This Ugly Yet Beautiful world was 2004, and Gunbuster vs Diebuster was 2006. You've got a really weird definition of "recent." The only thing they're doing right now is a Medaka Box adaption. Anno resigned from Gainax in 2007. Sadamoto and Higuchi both left with him and are now part of his new Studio Khara, which is collaborating with Gainax for the Rebuild movies. Hiroyuki is the only remaining founder, and he is by far the least capable out of all of them in my opinion, though that's completely based on that one episode of TTGL he directed. I love Gainax, it's the studio that's created like, 5 out of my top 10 animes, but it's not what it used to be.
There are a LOT of studios that haven't made any money and barely stay afloat for the past ten years when the first anime bubble popped, Gainax has had a lot of success and managed to more than stay afloat. They have the majority of their resources focused on Rebuild so yes they haven't put out a whole lot other than the TTGL movie and a couple normal cour shows with little production value. Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi are all working on Rebuild with Khara but it's basically a Gainax sub-studio at this point so I don't really see the argument. Sure, technically they're not working with Gainax but, semantics.
Gainax has nothing to do with the Rebuild movies, apart from the fact they co-own the franchise. They don't do any of the animation, have no say in directorial decisions, aren't involved in marketing, nothing. Their name is on it because they partly own "Evangelion". Everything is done by Khara, who are an independent studio, only affiliated with Gainax due to shared history and copyright, to say they are a Gainax sub-studio is pretty ignorant of the situation, and insulting to Anno, who created his own studio, seperate from Gainax, for a reason. For the most part, Khara does little jobs outsourced to them by other studios, though none so far have been by Gainax, while they focus the bulk of their efforts on the Rebuild project.
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
Also Gainax is pretty much dead, all the original owners and producers have already left, most to a new studio. Rebuild is the new studio's way of getting off the ground, and retelling the story in a way that isn't riddled with depression.
Wow I just love it when people talk out their asses about things they have no idea about.
Gainax is one of the most successful modern production studios, with recent commercial successes like Gunbuster vs Daibuster, Gurren Lagann, Panty and Stocking and This Ugly Yet Beautiful World. The current president of the company is Yamaga Hiroyuki, one of the original founding members; other founding members still on staff include Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi. Sure is all the original owners and producers leaving the company with the new studio completely destroyed.
Oh wait.
The one thing you're right about is that the original ending is a byproduct of his depression and Gainax failing because Eva didn't make any money until about 3 months after it's release when it became a cult hit and then later started selling well in the general market.
The last original thing (read: not based on a manga, light novel or video game not produced by Gainax) was Panty & Stocking, 2 years ago. Gurren Lagann was 2007, This Ugly Yet Beautiful world was 2004, and Gunbuster vs Diebuster was 2006. You've got a really weird definition of "recent." The only thing they're doing right now is a Medaka Box adaption. Anno resigned from Gainax in 2007. Sadamoto and Higuchi both left with him and are now part of his new Studio Khara, which is collaborating with Gainax for the Rebuild movies. Hiroyuki is the only remaining founder, and he is by far the least capable out of all of them in my opinion, though that's completely based on that one episode of TTGL he directed. I love Gainax, it's the studio that's created like, 5 out of my top 10 animes, but it's not what it used to be.
There are a LOT of studios that haven't made any money and barely stay afloat for the past ten years when the first anime bubble popped, Gainax has had a lot of success and managed to more than stay afloat. They have the majority of their resources focused on Rebuild so yes they haven't put out a whole lot other than the TTGL movie and a couple normal cour shows with little production value. Anno, Sadamoto and Higuchi are all working on Rebuild with Khara but it's basically a Gainax sub-studio at this point so I don't really see the argument. Sure, technically they're not working with Gainax but, semantics.
Gainax has nothing to do with the Rebuild movies, apart from the fact they co-own the franchise. They don't do any of the animation, have no say in directorial decisions, aren't involved in marketing, nothing. Their name is on it because they partly own "Evangelion". Everything is done by Khara, who are an independent studio, only affiliated with Gainax due to shared history and copyright, to say they are a Gainax sub-studio is pretty ignorant of the situation, and insulting to Anno, who created his own studio, seperate from Gainax, for a reason. For the most part, Khara does little jobs outsourced to them by other studios, though none so far have been by Gainax, while they focus the bulk of their efforts on the Rebuild project.
Think of it as Fox putting their name on a Star Wars movie, created by Lucas Films.
Did anyone else have an extremely hard time giving a fuck about the characters? Like I can see how you would enjoy the show if you liked the characters but I just could not bring myself to give a fuck about a spineless doormat, a bitch or a emotionless puppet. Kaji was cool and fuyutsuki was alright but that was it the rest of the cast was just really annoying/unlikable.
For example, the scene with - Hide Spoiler - Asuka and Rei in the elevator (in the series) saying nothing, with the tension building for over half a minute is pretty ballsy, disjointed both psychologically and visually.
yes yes yes , a thousand times this. assuming NGE is actually about a bunch of biomechs fighting giant monsters is pretty far off the mark. and thats the problem with the rebuild movies. if anyone has watched Mr. Plinketts review of the new Star Trek movie , he made a point that all the flashy elements of the original trek were HYPERCHARGED TO THE MAX! its the same with rebuild , its like WE NEED TO BE MUCH MORE CRYPTIC AND MYSTERIOUS! MAKE THE BATTLES FIVETHOUSAND TIMES MORE FLASHY! DRAW IN THE NARUTO CROWD!
jesus. before seeing thesemovies i dident know that i had this much capacity for hatred.
I think Evangelion was my third anime I ever watched, as a kid, I think I was like 12-13. I was like WOAH what's this... it's so... so deep. I watched some other anime first, I don't remember (probably Sailor Moon/Dragon Ball, it was on TV), so I thought all anime were like that, but oh boy was I wrong. I'm actually somewhat like the main character, or used to be, so it was even more interesting. I didn't expect this from an anime.
I actually like both versions of the end.
I watched Berserk before this anime (Berserk is the best anime, period), and then Evangelion (2nd best, probably). They set the bar so high that most of the other anime were bleak compared to them. I don't know if I should be sad or happy I watched them first, because I might not have been so drawn into anime if I didn't, but on the other hand I couldn't appreciate/enjoy average anime because I got used to this quality - the best.
On September 13 2012 19:33 valheru wrote: Did anyone else have an extremely hard time giving a fuck about the characters? Like I can see how you would enjoy the show if you liked the characters but I just could not bring myself to give a fuck about a spineless doormat, a bitch or a emotionless puppet. Kaji was cool and fuyutsuki was alright but that was it the rest of the cast was just really annoying/unlikable.
What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol
I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
On September 13 2012 13:47 a3den wrote: But you can't deny [...] the superb eva and angels design.
Sure I can. Organic looking robots aren't my thing. If its gonna be organic, at least make it Obari as fuck.
About RahXephon, thats more of an "Evangelion done not-shitty". It would have to be something like Fafner to be "Evangelion done again", although even that is better than Eva.
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
On September 13 2012 14:57 Lord Zeya wrote: I really like how you end this: "there has to be SOMETHING to make me care." For those of us that like the anime, it's because we DO care about some parts of it. Shinji is a protagonist who people can attach themselves to not because he's a badass, not because he's unique, but because he's experiencing life at a pace he doesn't want it to happen at. I used to hate on it because it got too sexual and wierd for what I expected was a mecha anime, but the thing is, it really ISN'T a mecha anime. The EVA are just there to help kill the concept of mecha anime, because they were so popular. It's more about growing up, and simultaneously falling apart.
This is probably why mechanime don't happen anymore. The bandwagoning brought tons of people to watch Evangelion, which got them the viewerbase that they needed to complete the series. That's why it's so normal and simple for the first 15-16 episodes. Once Shinji and unit-01 are consumed by Leliel (the shadow in the sky), Anno began to take off the disguise the series had been under for the earlier portions.
Kill the concept of mecha anime? What the fuck? Mecha anime has done just fine post Evangelion, and considering anime like Gundam SEED, Code Geass, or Gurren Lagann, Mecha anime has arguably had its best decade in terms of sales and popularity since the 80s.
Back to why people like the series: Shinji is a whiny little prick. We can all agree on that, I think, but he has valid reasons for it. If you were abandoned by your dad when you were ~7-8, would you be normal? If you had to live with strangers all your life? And then be suddenly thrust into saving the world? I wouldn't be taking that easily, no matter how many hot girls they threw at me. Neither would anyone reading this, and the few exceptions damn well wouldn't have been able to do it when they were 15, and don't pretend like you could. The fate of humanity is a burden too great for so few people to bear, and when you consider that their lives were all turned upside-down at least once before becoming pilots (Asuka's mom going insane, Rei... dying..., and Shinji being abandoned) you can begin to understand why they're all so fucked up even as the series begins.
See, this is what I was talking about in my post. "But its a realistic protrayal of a kid stuck in that situation!" Whoppie doo. Who cares? If I wanted to watch a realistic portrayal of some autistic kid with daddy issues, you could easily find one to stalk IRL, but why would you want to do that? Whats so interesting about watching a poor kid like that suffer?
Keep in mind, this is all conjecture from my own theories and lengthy discussion of the fever dream that is EoE with my brother, all from years ago so I might've got some shit wrong.
Its much better to just discuss the original series ending , because Hideako Anno just wrote EoE after receiving death threads. The original series ending is the one that Anno actually intended. And dont get me started on that Money-grabbing Rebuild ****, Gainax is selling out the franchise with that.
lol
Shinji dealing with being abandoned by his father, dealing with being thrust into a situation where only he can pilot the eva01, dealing with trying to reintegrate into society, dealing with basically just completely fucked from the stress of everything.
watching the character struggle and deal with these conflicts, is that not the basis of all good stories? if you have no conflict of the human condition then yes, you'll just end up with gurren lagaan.
Yeah, it was a good basis for a series in the original Gundam, too. Except, in the original Gundam, its actually about the growth and maturation of the main character, rather than the horrible spiral of failure that happened in Evangelion. And lol@the "no conflict of the human condition" in Gurren Lagann. I'm not the biggest TTGL fan, but do you actually believe that?
On September 13 2012 16:33 Lord Zeya wrote: I have yet to watch Rebuild, is it better/worse than original series? Is it for the fans, or to remake the series in a more honest and effective way?
Umm. I think rebuild is alot better. I liked both original and rebuild but hadcore fans of the original tend not to like rebuild because shinji is less of a pussy
Not according to Anno, who has explicitly stated it is not a sequel. Maybe he has changed his mind, anything is possible with that lunatic. He said he was happy to recreate the as he wanted it to be. Gainex loves in-show easter eggs, which is likely what alot of the "proof" for the sequel theory can be explained by.
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
Them not actually being robots is simply a plot device. Their use and portrayal in the show is exactly the same as how it is in any other mecha show. Out of curiosity, how many other mecha shows have you even seen?
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
Them not actually being robots is simply a plot device. Their use and portrayal in the show is exactly the same as how it is in any other mecha show. Out of curiosity, how many other mecha shows have you even seen?
I have tried to watch 7 other mecha shows, never was able to get into the genre though and haven't seen any others all the way through. Since giant robots are such a huge turn off for me I have to really, really like the characters and story to be able to get into it, and I just haven't found any other mechas where that is the case.
I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/
Personally, I feel like a lot of the show is a rebuttal of the "young boy pilots giant robot" trope. A 14 y/o forced to fight for his life, and all life on Earth, day after day? That's enough to mess with an adult, never mind a kid.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/
Personally, I feel like a lot of the show is a rebuttal of the "young boy pilots giant robot" trope. A 14 y/o forced to fight for his life, and all life on Earth, day after day? That's enough to mess with an adult, never mind a kid.
I'd like to think the two aren't mutually exclusive.
But if I wanted to watch utter cowardice, I'd watch Courage: The Cowardly Dog or something. I've already seen my fair share of really annoying MCs, and it's not like the cast that backs him up does much to alleviate the irritation in my brain. Amuro in the original Gundam movies has similar growth, but at least he's not completely annoying and the supporting cast is actually pretty entertaining (Bright!)
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
Them not actually being robots is simply a plot device. Their use and portrayal in the show is exactly the same as how it is in any other mecha show. Out of curiosity, how many other mecha shows have you even seen?
I have tried to watch 7 other mecha shows, never was able to get into the genre though and haven't seen any others all the way through. Since giant robots are such a huge turn off for me I have to really, really like the characters and story to be able to get into it, and I just haven't found any other mechas where that is the case.
Have you tried Macross F or Macross Zero? I personally find the Macross universe of mecha to be memorable. Mostly since I actually like the music/characters. They could skip the mechas and it would improve.
As for Evangelion, anybody else consider the spin off Re-Take After to be the best part of the series? It has one short NSFW scene, but otherwise it is better than the canon Eva stuff I've seen.
It was 2000 or 2001. I half-regularily visited a shop which sold role play accessories (and table top figures and trading cards, you get the picture.) The shop owner had this DVD box of this anime and recommended it. But the price tag was 250 DM! (Without considering inflation about 127 Euro, with inflation corrected roughly 150 Euro.) He said it's good. I trusted him and bought it even though I was a student at this time with little money.
I watched the first episode. Looks like a mech series where childrens somehow need to save Earth with controlling those battle machines. Ah, well.
Then the story got more boring. Then Asuka came. And the episodes got better and better (with the exception of "Magma Diver") I think I watched 5+ episodes at a time, I was dying to know how the plot develops. Of course I got confused by the last two episodes, but episode 24 can be considered a kind of a conclusion anyway.
Later I watched it again. I also watched it later with a friend so I could talk about it. Even later I saw that surprisingly a lot of folks seem to know this anime. I watched the series again.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/
Personally, I feel like a lot of the show is a rebuttal of the "young boy pilots giant robot" trope. A 14 y/o forced to fight for his life, and all life on Earth, day after day? That's enough to mess with an adult, never mind a kid.
I'd like to think the two aren't mutually exclusive.
But if I wanted to watch utter cowardice, I'd watch Courage: The Cowardly Dog or something. I've already seen my fair share of really annoying MCs, and it's not like the cast that backs him up does much to alleviate the irritation in my brain. Amuro in the original Gundam movies has similar growth, but at least he's not completely annoying and the supporting cast is actually pretty entertaining (Bright!)
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/
Coward for most of the time. But in the end he's the fucking boss, deciding to have none of that fake shit, where all are one entity and decides to live his live on his own, facing all fears and hardship as an individual.
In addition, as far as I am concerned about clues, hints and things they've shown in the rebuild movies so far, he's even Mr. fucking Universe for recreating the entire world to his liking. Some images from the rebuild movies even indicate, that the universe they all live in the rebuild movies isn't just the "second version of the world", but rather the fourth already (I don't remember exactly, but I think that's accurate).
So the rebuild series isn't just a revamped Evangelion, but more like a true sequel. If not and they just didn't care, then fuck it all, but at least the things that you see in the movies really point towards this, which is pretty cool.
And the most fun thing about the series is the reason why Hideaki Anno made the series as weird as it was in the first place. It's not a coincidence that the first half is kind of "standard" and then the second half is nothing like standard at all :-) Shinji's voice actress even lost control and tried to strangle the one who did the Asuka voice in the last scene of EoE, because she was so out of her mind with all the emotions.
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
Them not actually being robots is simply a plot device. Their use and portrayal in the show is exactly the same as how it is in any other mecha show. Out of curiosity, how many other mecha shows have you even seen?
I have tried to watch 7 other mecha shows, never was able to get into the genre though and haven't seen any others all the way through. Since giant robots are such a huge turn off for me I have to really, really like the characters and story to be able to get into it, and I just haven't found any other mechas where that is the case.
Have you tried Macross F or Macross Zero? I personally find the Macross universe of mecha to be memorable. Mostly since I actually like the music/characters. They could skip the mechas and it would improve.
As for Evangelion, anybody else consider the spin off Re-Take After to be the best part of the series? It has one short NSFW scene, but otherwise it is better than the canon Eva stuff I've seen.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out. I've heard the name before(with a plus though), but I don't know more than that. It can be really hard to find a good show just by stumbling onto it, recommendations are always quite helpful.
NGE is one of those series that, while a masterpiece, is a little hard to take in the further from when it originally aired. Its influence was so large on the Mecha genre (and the anime industry in general) that it changed the pretty much the entire male protagonist characterization for much of the next decade.
Which is kind of amazing as it was: Anno spending his entire budget by around episode 18, being in a serious depression and using cocaine, being a direct deconstruction of Mobile Suit Gundam & Amuro Ray and having possibly the least likable (but still realistic) main character presented in anime (at that point). And this series is still the most profitable franchise in anime history. Oh, how things go so strangely.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Having just finished watching RahXephon last night, I was intrigued by the parallels between RahXephon andNGE. Both have similar themes, but the main difference was that I found that RahXephon wasNGE being done right; Ayato in the series actually resolves his personal issues in the end. My query to you guys is that is this sentiment generally accepted or am I just basing this off of my personal experience.
The one thing I didn't get yet is that why did Furugami shoot Lord Bahbem? Even if the system was completed and Ayato/Quon enter the tuning, what's the point to kill Lord Bahbem? was it just simply Furugami's job to assasinate the head of the Foundation, or am I missing something completely here?
On September 13 2012 14:16 Fyrewolf wrote: I kinda just mean gundam as generic giant robot, not specifically referring that show, probably should have just said that instead. Giant robots are such a huge turn off for me that I don't really, really, really don't like to watch any show that involves them. Evangelion makes them weird enough that they are tolerable for me and they don't fight other giant robots, but I just can't get into other shows at all, regardless of what I may be missing out on. I've seen an episode or two of some robot shows to see what they are about(including 0079 and gundam wing), but I just can't bring myself to care about those shows or their characters in the ones I've seen, except for in nge where they don't fight often and not against other robots and I actually like the characters(and their varying mental problems and varying success with coping methods).
So, as long as the robot is actually the MC's mother, unrealistic self-indulgent mecha fight scenes are okay?
I pointed out twice that I only find it tolerable because they don't really fight other robots and the fights are weird enough that it doesn't feel like other mecha shows, both in execution and enemy and eva design. And since all that metal is armor/restraints over some sort of clone recreation of those enemies, it's actually not even a giant robot mecha show because the eva's aren't robots.
Them not actually being robots is simply a plot device. Their use and portrayal in the show is exactly the same as how it is in any other mecha show. Out of curiosity, how many other mecha shows have you even seen?
I have tried to watch 7 other mecha shows, never was able to get into the genre though and haven't seen any others all the way through. Since giant robots are such a huge turn off for me I have to really, really like the characters and story to be able to get into it, and I just haven't found any other mechas where that is the case.
Have you tried Macross F or Macross Zero? I personally find the Macross universe of mecha to be memorable. Mostly since I actually like the music/characters. They could skip the mechas and it would improve.
As for Evangelion, anybody else consider the spin off Re-Take After to be the best part of the series? It has one short NSFW scene, but otherwise it is better than the canon Eva stuff I've seen.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out. I've heard the name before(with a plus though), but I don't know more than that. It can be really hard to find a good show just by stumbling onto it, recommendations are always quite helpful.
Macross has something like 8 things in it. Macross plus is one of the various ones taking place in the universe. The most recent one is Macross F with its movies. Macross Zero is a prequel to the original Macross series and the second most recent entry into the universe.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
I really enjoyed this series. After finish EoE I was on this maddening quest to understand exactly what happened at the end of the series. I remember running across the concept art for the live action movie in collaboration with WETA studios and even the Rebuild movies. It's wild to think that I thought the Rebuild movies were so far away in the future, and we're months away from the third iteration.
What I enjoy the most is how the series explores the nature of aliens, outerspace, human origin, religion, and after life. Even if its just a mess of crap meshed together, it's interesting.
I used to watch a ot of anime back in the 90's but I always gave this series a pass. My friend who watched it was constantly going on about in a very bi-polar manner. "I love it!" one second and "Arrrgh its so fucking stupid" the next.
I felt like I didnt have it in me to get sucked into that but after reading the OP I have decided to go back and watch this bad boy. Now I just need to decide if I should watch the original or just start on the rebuild movies, they sound kinda sweet.
On September 14 2012 02:04 nemahsys wrote: I used to watch a ot of anime back in the 90's but I always gave this series a pass. My friend who watched it was constantly going on about in a very bi-polar manner. "I love it!" one second and "Arrrgh its so fucking stupid" the next.
I felt like I didnt have it in me to get sucked into that but after reading the OP I have decided to go back and watch this bad boy. Now I just need to decide if I should watch the original or just start on the rebuild movies, they sound kinda sweet.
The rebuild movies seem to be a real sequel, rather than just a revamp of the series, so it might be better to first watch NGE and EoE and then continue with the movies.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
This is a discussion thread but the way you write doesn't promote discussion. You give no slack and use hyperbole to make your points. From the first rant you wrote it seems like you don't like the characters in the series, and that's fine. Simplifying it by calling them stuff like autistic, slutty, or retarded doesn't help. If you find characters unrelatable or even annoying, don't watch it. I, and many others, did find them relatable and even sympathetic at times so reading about how they are all retarded autistic crybabies doesn't do anything but inflame the discussion.
What i meant by bringing up those series is that not everyone can like everything, and the way you argue won't change anyones mind nor lead to a good discussion.
whoa chill out, it's just an anime. I get that it's fun to rip on things you hate but... take a deep breath and realize winning an argument won't change anyone's opinion of the show or prove that anyone's right.
edit: disregard that, I forgot that this is the internet
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
pretty much all you've been posting is that you just "dont care" for the series, its plot or characters. what i dont get is why you seem to think you need to convince other people of this
All I have to say right now is that without this show I wouldn't have my name, nor the disturbing attraction to crazy as fuck redheads.
Seriously this show changed my life as a miserable depressed 13 year old kid, after trying to watch it with my sister at age like 6, but she kept making me leave the room cause scary things were happening.
If you haven't just go watch the show start to finish and live the fucking dream.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
This is a discussion thread but the way you write doesn't promote discussion. You give no slack and use hyperbole to make your points. From the first rant you wrote it seems like you don't like the characters in the series, and that's fine. Simplifying it by calling them stuff like autistic, slutty, or retarded doesn't help. If you find characters unrelatable or even annoying, don't watch it. I, and many others, did find them relatable and even sympathetic at times so reading about how they are all retarded autistic crybabies doesn't do anything but inflame the discussion.
What i meant by bringing up those series is that not everyone can like everything, and the way you argue won't change anyones mind nor lead to a good discussion.
Where do you feel I used hyperbole in describing Evangelion?
Additionally, as I said in that first post, the show isn't entirely without merit, so I don't agree with your point of "You don't like the characters/plot so don't watch it!!" I highlighted parts I liked. Doesn't mean I have to like everything, or that I'm not allowed to talk about things I don't like about it. And it still really feels like you are just telling me to stop discussing Evangelion because my opinion is different from yours.......
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
pretty much all you've been posting is that you just "dont care" for the series, its plot or characters. what i dont get is why you seem to think you need to convince other people of this
You people really can't stand the fact that someone in this discussion thread doesn't like the show, lol
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
This is a discussion thread but the way you write doesn't promote discussion. You give no slack and use hyperbole to make your points. From the first rant you wrote it seems like you don't like the characters in the series, and that's fine. Simplifying it by calling them stuff like autistic, slutty, or retarded doesn't help. If you find characters unrelatable or even annoying, don't watch it. I, and many others, did find them relatable and even sympathetic at times so reading about how they are all retarded autistic crybabies doesn't do anything but inflame the discussion.
What i meant by bringing up those series is that not everyone can like everything, and the way you argue won't change anyones mind nor lead to a good discussion.
Where do you feel I used hyperbole in describing Evangelion?
Additionally, as I said in that first post, the show isn't entirely without merit, so I don't agree with your point of "You don't like the characters/plot so don't watch it!!" I highlighted parts I liked. Doesn't mean I have to like everything, or that I'm not allowed to talk about things I don't like about it. And it still really feels like you are just telling me to stop discussing Evangelion because my opinion is different from yours.......
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
I am pretty sure it was annoying for most of the viewers to watch shinji be a coward/bitch. What you guys fail to realize is that you can still respect and admire a show while not enjoying it. There are plenty of works (eva being one of them) where you basically would not watch it more than once because it just was not "enjoyable" but does that mean that it is bad/trash? of course not. Sent does not see that point and I find it funny when he tries so hard to convince himself/others that it is just straight up trash because he didn't like poor shinji being a scared little bitch the entire show instead of blossoming into a butterfly like in the other mecha shows he is used to.
I agree that I did not respect or like a single character in this show, but overall it made me think about shinji and why he was such a failure. But then you realize not everyone is a hero and some people just suck at life no matter what they do, and this is just one of those works that show that point. Why do you think Anno was surprised when he saw how popular it was? Because people don't enjoy stories about cowards but that does not mean they are not worthy of respect or recognition.
Yeah, that's what normal people call "shit" or "terrible" or "garbage". Its not that I don't understand why people like it, or that I need to try and convince myself of anything. I know people like it. People also like Lucky Star. Some people like causing pain and harm to others. These people are also insane. Also, I would like it if you weren't so blatantly hostile towards me about this for virtually no reason other than having your anime insulted. Its like you are claiming intolerance on my part, and then say things like "Hes trying to convince himself and everyone else something is bad because HE doesn't like it". No, I actually lay out reasons why I think its bad. My opinion isn't the ultimate opinion, but my opinion is at least supported by my experience and interpretation of the show. Apparently you haven't even read my post, with that strawman argument of yours.
Anyway, why would you even need to think about Shinji and why hes such a failure? Isn't it a foregone conclusion at the start of any fiction what the "realistic" result of a show would be?
Also, copy/pasting a previous rant with edits isn't exactly "trying hard"
You do seem to work hard as you have 10+ posts in this thread even though you don't like the show. You go at it heavy calling the characters sluts, autists, and sociopaths and now you indirectly call the series shit etc. You seem to be a try hard hater who can't stand that people like what you don't like.
What you consider to be nasty, retarded, unlikable, and terrible human beings in the anime i see as slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope. I found Gurren Lagann to be overrated shit, RahXephon was ugly animation wise and worse character wise. Opinions, eh?
I'm sorry, I thought this was the Evangelion Discussion Thread, not the TL Evangelion Fanclub. Also, this isn't hard, lol
Saying they are "slightly to heavily fucked up people trying to cope" doesn't really change anything about what I've said. Thats just semantics. Gurren Lagann is overrated. Your opinions on RahXephon doesn't bother me in the least, and I respect your opinion although I disagree with it.
pretty much all you've been posting is that you just "dont care" for the series, its plot or characters. what i dont get is why you seem to think you need to convince other people of this
You people really can't stand the fact that someone in this discussion thread doesn't like the show, lol
Lets provide some quotes from you about Evangelion that i consider to be hyperbole and not constructive:
So which did you guys like more, the kid jacking off on a comatose girl in the hopsital, or everyone turning into tang after being assaulted by albino midgets?
Simplified. I actually liked the jacking off scene as it was daring and showed how a mentally unstable "virgin" kid acted like i think many would do in his situation. Is it messed up? Yeah, but that's the premise of the series. People in the series are somewhat broken (already been explained) and live under constant unnatural pressure.
Earth is under attack, an organization of crazy scientists puts together a 3-man team of young people to fight them. The final part, the part that "makes Evangelion Evangelion", the part that makes the anime what it is, is all the mental drama of the characters. And this is the part that makes it crap. Shinji's character, his mental state, and everything annoying about him that makes me hate him as a character, is a central, driving force of the plot. Not only that, the same could be said of all the other characters. There isn't a single, likable character in the entire cast. Asuka, Rei, Misato, Gendo, you name it, they are all horrible characters, all of them are either autists, sluts, or sociopaths (or a combination). People will tell me "Well, thats the point". Well, okay, good job, Evangelion, you made your point, and it sucks.
You hate him as a character, your opinion and it seems to not be shared with alot of people here. You call all characters horrible. You then call them autist, sluts, and sociopaths (this is hyperbole as most of them have reasons for what they do).
Is it enjoyable to watch a group of autistic kids and sociopaths fight to save the world, and ultimately turn everyone into tang? Personally, I'd say no. Clearly, people disagree. But I didn't get any pleasure watching that, or watching the story of a bunch of people who I can't stand for 26 episodes and a movie.
So your opinion is that you can't stand the characters and you don't get pleasure watching the series. Why are you discussing something you dislike? I don't spend time in a Breaking Bad thread just because i dislike the show characters. It's a waste of time. Again with the autist/sociopath bullshit.
What is so stimulating watching Shinji jack off on Asuka, or everyone in the world being turned into Tang? Is it stimulating because "Well, if a kid like Shinji was actually put into this situation, this is a realistic portrayal of the out-come"? And this is supposed to be stimulating my mind?
Your personal opinion is that it's not stimulating or good. My opinion is different and that's not going to change. I already covered the jacking off as you mentioned it more than once.
Before people bust out the strawman on me, I'm not saying something like "The anime has to be like Gurren Lagann to be enjoyable!!" or "The main character has to be a hot blooded badass!", or anything like that. But there has to be SOMETHING in Evangelion to make you care. In the end, do you care about any of these characters, that the series has gone to extreme lengths to show you how much of a terrible human being each and every one of them is? If not, why would you care about anything that happens in the anime? So, like I said, there has to be SOMETHING to make me care, and in Evangelion's case, occasional cool battles isn't enough.
You don't care because you see the characters as terrible human beings. I don't as i see them as flawed persons doing stuff that both suits their characters and makes for a good movie/series.
Your argument can mostly be condensed to:
"I hate the characters which means i hate the show."
You can't really present a more biased and personal opinion which means everyone else that don't agree couldn't give a shit. If you presented plot holes or inconsistencies i might be interested. Now you present your personal opinion on the characters, something i, and many others, couldn't give 2 shits about.
On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote: What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol
I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions.
Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH.
I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote: What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol
I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions.
Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH.
I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
Wait I got two people mixed up, but really let's just stop all the useless bickering and banter about OMGZORZ THIS ISNT THE BEST ANIMIE
I don't understand the heavy arguing about whatever the fuck is up with NGE. Either you know what's up and you like that kind of thing, or you don't know what's up and/or don't like it.
But what can definitely be said is that you can count the anime, which are on par with LoGH on one hand of a person who has lost 2 fingers already. Haven't seen or heard of it? The fuck, watch it.
Simplified. I actually liked the jacking off scene as it was daring and showed how a mentally unstable "virgin" kid acted like i think many would do in his situation. Is it messed up? Yeah, but that's the premise of the series. People in the series are somewhat broken (already been explained) and live under constant unnatural pressure.
That was a question, though. Both events happened, I was just wondering which people liked more, as both are great anime moments that few anime have ever been able to compete with.
You hate him as a character, your opinion and it seems to not be shared with alot of people here. You call all characters horrible. You then call them autist, sluts, and sociopaths (this is hyperbole as most of them have reasons for what they do).
This is hyperbole. If you go back and look at this topic, most of the posts in here are either people who are like "Oh, Evanelion, I watched that once" or "Evangelion sucks". Therefore, plenty of people in this thread share my opinion. Kaal, Zergneedsfood, KazeHydra, to name a few. Additionally, I don't see what this has to do with anything. Point?
Additionally, virtually every character in the show can be accurately classified into one of those types. Just because a sociopath has reasons for being a nut, doesn't make them not a nut. Is Shinji autistic? Yes. Is Misato a slut? Yes. Is Gendo a sociopath? Yes. etc.
So your opinion is that you can't stand the characters and you don't get pleasure watching the series. Why are you discussing something you dislike? I don't spend time in a Breaking Bad thread just because i dislike the show characters. It's a waste of time. Again with the autist/sociopath bullshit.
That is a cool opinion you have there.
You don't care because you see the characters as terrible human beings. I don't as i see them as flawed persons doing stuff that both suits their characters and makes for a good movie/series.
Where is the hyperbole? I didn't ask you to tell me that I dislike the show, or why I dislike the show. I already know why.
Your argument can mostly be condensed to:
"I hate the characters which means i hate the show."
Okay?
You can't really present a more biased and personal opinion which means everyone else that don't agree couldn't give a shit. If you presented plot holes or inconsistencies i might be interested. Now you present your personal opinion on the characters, something i, and many others, couldn't give 2 shits about.
At this point, you aren't even talking about the show. You are only talking about my opinion on the show. If you seriously don't give 2 shits about my opinion on the show, then why do you keep posting about my opinion on the show?
I don't understand the heavy arguing about whatever the fuck is up with NGE. Either you know what's up and you like that kind of thing, or you don't know what's up and/or don't like it.
Why can't someone know whats up, and still not like it?
On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote: What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol
I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions.
Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH.
I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
Ummmm wow. The amount of anime you listed went way over my head. I wouldn't call people like Mutta and the cast from Kokoro connect "Realistic".... To be honest animes and general tend to not portray anyone realistic at all. What Eva does do is paint a realistic form of depression i guess. Watch shit like breaking bad with u want a "Realistic portrayal of ppl"
I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
;; i'm currently working on that right now!
by the end of today i should have the secondary post completed with the supplementary background and explantions!
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
On September 13 2012 19:36 quirinus wrote: What do you want from characters? I actually really enjoyed the characters in Evangelion. Most of current anime have pretty much all the same boring characters (I guess you got too used to them, too many "badass" characters out there). This is fucking 1000x better than watching the same character in a new anime setting all the time, and it's the main fucking character, it's awesome. A lot of the characters in other anime are bigger than life and can do anything, it's annoying - everything in swamped with shitty Shounen anime/characters instead of gems like these. These characters actually have big problems and are really well portrayed, I found their feelings/character development really genuine. Would you stay normal if shit like this happened to you while you were a kid? lol
I guess I enjoyed it more when I was a kid, because I was feeling that adolescence angst that Shinji was feeling.
I want characters to be fun to watch. This may or may not mean realistic but I think sometimes it's difficult to say how realistic a character's reaction may be when thrown into a very unrealistic setting. However, this is generally either: a "badass" character who is very interesting from the start or a "realistic" character that eventually develops over the course of the show. No one is arguing Shinji is not well portrayed but he's well portrayed as a realistic person that we don't want or care to see; he has no development and that's hardly entertaining. Most of current anime have too many boring badass characers? WHAT? (I admit, I'm confused here cause you keep complaining about bad characters but also say how there're too many "badass" ones?) Do you not see the recent trend in weak, pathetic, useless male MCs? Idk if all our beta males are the result of Eva or not, but we get a TON of dumb, boring, spineless, and asexual male leads. Also, none of them have character development so they're all like Shinji in that sense. You should watch Accel World if you want to see a crybaby weep for 20+ eps. Actually, not even Haru is as bad as Shinji so you might be disappointed that he actually mans up on rare occasions.
Sounds to me like you're just hating on a certain range of characters and refuse to branch out to others so you can maintain your belief that Eva is somehow the most amazing portrayal of realistic characters ever. So going back to what kind of characters I want...how about Mutta from Space Bros or Koko from Jormungand (though rest of the casts are good too)? Tsukihi's level of banter or Keima's level of apathy? Once Neko Shiro gets animated, Hitagi's development as a character is really quite astounding. I'll take the entire cast of Kokoro Connect (who are all realistic characters who can be annoying but actually develop) over Eva's any day or Watashi and the fairies' dark humor that really defines their personalities (hmm not sure if fairies have personalities...lol). Kurisu or Nanase's tsundere rating is a million times better than not-actually-a-tusndere Asuka (and don't bring up trashimiya Rie with me) and both of these are realistic heroines imo. Speaking of Nanase, Konata the MC is also a million times better than Shinji despite having his own set of very realistic problems. The F/Z cast may seem "bigger than life" but their character portrayals are top notch (well, some). What about Mardock Scramble and the interaction between Balot and Oeufcoque? Baccano may have supernatural aspects but its entire cast is amazing and entertaining in one way or another. I would bring up Little Busters but the anime is going to be a trainwreck, so guess I can't fairly argue using that. Only thing I'll say is you should read more for better characters. Even if you STILL don't like ANY of these characters, all of which are recent, and think Shinji is superior to them all, then I really must know how many Eva supporters have seen Legend of the Galactic Heroes considering over half the cast (which quantifies to a pretty large number) is AMAZING on so many different levels. Most of them are just straight up superior to all the characters I just listed. I honestly cannot fathom the logic of anyone who would rank NGE over LoGH.
I don't mind that people are entertained and like the show; that's fine. But when people start talking about "best anime" and "great characters" using arguments like "sales=quality!" or "it's realistic," respectively, then there's something to argue about and it's not us just hating for the sake of hating. I'd like to know why the realistic characters in Eva (again, NO ONE is arguing they aren't realistic) are so much better than realistic characters in any other show that actually develop over time.
Ummmm wow. The amount of anime you listed went way over my head. I wouldn't call people like Mutta and the cast from Kokoro connect "Realistic".... To be honest animes and general tend to not portray anyone realistic at all. What Eva does do is paint a realistic form of depression i guess. Watch shit like breaking bad with u want a "Realistic portrayal of ppl"
It's true that anime tends not to portray characters as realistic; however, the thing is it's very hard to objectively say this because the vast majority of anime is in unrealistic settings. How people will really react to these situations can only be hypothesized and the reactions will be different for every kind of person. Don't know why you'd call a guy trying to fulfill his dream of becoming an astronaut unrealistic. Given the situation, I think Kokoro Connect portrays the characters very realistically given their different personalities, backgrounds, and outlooks on life. Throw a kid with lots of issues into a robot and Shinji's reaction is indeed realistic. Throw an adult who has military experience in it and you'll get something very different but equally realistic. Again, no one is arguing Eva characters are not realistic; however, many of us do not consider it good just because it is realistic. BTW, I'm not the one asking for realistic people; I explicitly said I want characters that are fun to watch. Not sure if you meant me or not.
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
your ganna have to wait realisticly 6-8 months for the blue-ray release....
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time....
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time....
Then what about the fourth child(the spikey haired kid from Shiji's class? There's not much back story on him, and I don't believe he follows the "made with himself" criteria. Just for reference, I have only seen the original series and I haven't watched the ending movies or the revival.
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
If I remember correctly, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, this is due to the fact that the humans that make up the units are directly related to them. I believe Shinji was his mom, Asuka was her mom/dad? and I don't know about Rei, but I would assume Rei was either a clone of herself, her mom, or something
I'm psyched that 3.0 is only a couple months away. I'm hoping Alamo Drafthouse is able to show it relatively soon. I'm going to be picking up 1.0/2.0 here in the next couple weeks.
Rei is a clone mixed of Shinjis mother and Lilith. Thats why she behaves sometimes like a mother and Shinji sees his mother in her from time to time....
Then what about the fourth child(the spikey haired kid from Shiji's class? There's not much back story on him, and I don't believe he follows the "made with himself" criteria. Just for reference, I have only seen the original series and I haven't watched the ending movies or the revival.
Well, it's either an attempt at mass production or some plot line that apparently was so well hidden I wouldn't have the slightest clue. I <3 reading about NGE though.
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
;; i'm currently working on that right now!
by the end of today i should have the secondary post completed with the supplementary background and explantions!
On September 14 2012 04:32 Sanctimonius wrote: I've seen the ending and the two films so far, and I have a question since my knowledge of the series is so spotty - is there a reason why the Evas have to piloted by children who are so obviously damaged? Couldn't they choose some kids who, maybe, got a hug from their daddy every once in a while? Or some grown-ups who could at least hide how fucked-up they are?
On September 13 2012 08:14 Gamegene wrote: Original post: Shit I did not mean to click enter.
Explanations, Analysis, Background 3deep5u
Under Construction!
The Seeds Of Life, The Tokyo-3 Geofront, Second Impact and the Dead Sea Scrolls
On September 13 2000 The GAINAX website wrote: Giant Meteorite Hits Antarctica? (2000.09.13) According to a P.U. Communications report, a gigantic explosion occurred in Antarctica on this date. The cause has yet to be announced, but experts believe that it was caused my a meteorite impact. Earthquakes and tidal waves of extreme magnitude are occurring all over the world. We are already receiving reports of damage in parts of South Africa and Australia. The force of the explosion is estimated to be upward of 18 billion megatons of TNT. Antarctica itself has been almost entirely pulverized, and it is estimated that most of the ice will turn into vapor, which will condense into massive rainfall, which will in turn swamp coastal areas as sea level rises. Evacuation orders are in effect for all such regions around the world. The preceding was a story from the world of Evangelion. Today is when Second Impact happened in series chronology. It is also the birthdate of Nagisa Kaworu.
Note: The following information comes from a handbook given to the audiences during the original release of End Of Evangelion. It is considered canon.
4.6 billions years ago, deep in the milky way galaxy existed "The First Ancesteral Race", a group of alien beings who were practically omnipotent with their advanced technology. Their world faced with extinction, they accepted their fate, but decided to ensure that life would continue to exist in the universe. Placing the soul of one of their race into seven "Seeds Of Life", they scattered them to 7 inhabitable planets before their destruction.
Each equipped with The Dead Sea Scrolls and a Lance Of Longinus, the Seeds Of Life would provide a primordial soup of life to the planets, and begin life.
There were two kinds of Seeds, a Black Moon, and a White Moon. A "Fruit Of Life" White Moon would spawn Angels, strange and bizzare lifeforms to take over the planet and inhabit it. A "Fruit Of Knowledge" Black Moon would spawn intelligent beings, and ultimately lead to the life form forming civilization.
The White Moon landed on Earth first in Antarctica, but for whatever reason a Black Moon landed as well before the White Moon could begin life on Earth.
Sensing what was wrong, the White Moon became inactive to prevent two life forms from beginning at the same time, allowing us humans to emerge from the Black Moon (metaphorically speaking as evolution would have to take place over millions of years).
Jump forward to the year 2000. Seele, a mysterious organization, discover the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Black Moon uncovered in Japan. The Dead Sea Scrolls were instructions on what the Seeds Of Life were and what they did. They also explain what would happen if two Seeds Of Life hapened to meet on the same planet.
Discovering the White Moon in Antartica, Seele sends the Katsuragi Expedition, headed by Misato's father, to initiate Second Impact before Adam, the soul residing in the White Moon awakens. If Adam was able to reawaken, all Lillith (the soul residing in the Black Moon) based life would extinguish right down to the bacterial level.
Using a human "donor" to initiate contact with Adam, they start Second Impact. In the aftermath of the damage, they were able to suspend Adam into an embryonic state, and delay the coming of the Angels.
The White Moon, along with Antarctica is destroyed. The Black Moon, the birthplace of humanity, is quickly taken up by Seele and their U.N. puppet government along with the truth of Second Impact, instead fabricating a story that a meteor hit the planet. On top of the Black Moon, Tokyo 3 is created, a fortress city designed to intercept the Angels that will be coming in 15 years for Adam, the father of the Angels and Lillith, the mother of humanity, in the depth of the Black Moon Geofront.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
With the backing of Seele, secret organization Gehirn is created, hidden as a U.N. Lab in the construction of Tokyo-3 and started with the original members of a Seele backed U.N. research group (the surviving members of the Katsuragi Expedition, including Ikari Gendo. It is tasked to start research and development on the Evangelion Series, the Magi supercomputer and plan the defenses for the coming of the Angels.
Dr. Naoko Akagi, the mother of Ritsuko Akagi, is the brain behind the development and ultimately success of the Magi Supercomputer, and the first Evangelion. Magi is meant to be a bionic super computer, implanted with three seperate human personalities.
Magi, named after the three wise men from the East, was created in order to act as an operation system for the Evangelion Series, and to give the series the capacity to hold personality. In the series, it is tasked with running the government of Japan (through majority rule between the three personalities), running NERV headquarters, and give NERV staff information, analysis and suggestions on the Evangelion Series and the Angels.
Soon after, future subcommander Fuyutsuki joins the organization, after revealing his knowledge of the true Second Impact. Ikari Yui, Shinji's mother and wife of Ikari Gendo, is seemingly killed and erased during a freak accident (that Shinji witnessed but has no recollection of when the series begins). Two successful Evangelion units are created: Unit 00 and Unit 01. The organization is reformed under a new name: NERV. Dr. Naoko Akagi commits suicide after killing Rei.
The "Ultimate All-Purpose Humanoid Decisive Battle Weapon: Evangelion" Series
Evangelions are not robots. They're humans in the loosest sense of the word. Evangelions, with the exception of Evangelion Unit 01, are made from the remains of the Adam's Seed Of Life. Like Adam described as "the giant being of light", Evangelions share the same phsyical form of a human being and a unit "core".
Featuring an A.T. Field, and a power equal to the Angels themselves, they are humanities only hope of defeating the Angels and initiating Third Impact.
Unlike their White Moon counterparts however, the Evangelions originally did not have S2 engines, meaning that they are severely limited in operation time, and are forced to use a power cord before relying on internal power.
Later in the series, Experimental Evangelion Unit 01 was able to ingest an S2 engine. The Mass Production Evas proudly featured them, allowing them to have the ability of flight (no longer being constrained by the cord).
Evangelions are covered in binders, which also serves as armor, a way to control the Evangelion, and disguises the Evangelion series true inner workings: They have limbs, blood, a nervous system organ system, and even eyeballs (notably shown during the second episode, and during Asuka's defeat at the hands of the Mass Production Evas.
Like the Angels, Evangelions have regeneration abilities, although it's implied that it takes long periods of time to repair extensive damage (think of Angels when they recover from an N2 bomb). Damage sustained by the Evangelion units can result in massive repair costs to replace or salvage the armored binders, and give the Evangelion enough bio mass to help accelerate the regeneration.
The system that allows electronic personality for the Magi Computer is incorporated into all Evangelions, allowing each of the pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul
In the series, Seele is a council of twelve members, five of whom are shown in the beginning of the series. Chairman Keel Lorenz, the guy in the green suit and weird glasses, is the head of both the full council and the inner circle of 5. When the full council convenes, they project an image of large stone monoliths in a video conference (Keel is SEEL 01 SOUND ONLY).
SEELE, is essentially a group of old men who rule the world, as they directly control the U.N. (and all the countries within the U.N.) and NERV, having funding and backing both organizations.
After completing o it's goals of creating the MAGI, and first opperational Evangelion (Unit 00), Geherin was directly reorganized into NERV. NERV is a paramilitary special agency, tasked with defending mankind against the Angels, and prevent the Angels from starting a Third Impact.
Given authority under the U.N. (SEELE), NERV is a laregely independent organization, as only the Evangelion Series can stand up to the Angels, although they do coordinate with with other organizations such as the JSSDF (Japanese Strategic Special Self Defense Forces). Their main role in the defense against the Angels, is to support the Evangelion Units, provide logistics and technical support to the pilots. They have branches all over the world (Asuka and Kaji were transfered from the Branch in Germany), and like the main branch in Tokyo-3, they host their own Magi supercomputers and have the infrastructure to support and build Evangelions, which is where the Production and Mass production models were created.
NERV is a semi public organization, being under the U.N., however their main purpose (to defeat the Angels and support the Evangelion series) is a top secret from the general public. NERV has thousands of intelligence agents, who track down former NERV employees, keep tabs on current, and eliminate all leaks. They have are also shown to have special privileges, and can override and give orders to local governments. They also regularly issue media black outs during Angel and Evangelion activity (though after a certain point, everyone in Tokyo-3 knows what's going on).
Ikari Gendo is the head of Special Agency NERV, and regularly butts heads with the SEELE organization. Because SEELE directly funds NERV, Gendo must work and show that NERV is accomplishing it's goals of completing it's secret agenda: The Human Instrumentality Project, otherwise NERV, and Gendo will be cut.
A.T. Field, also known as Absolute Terror Field, a barrier than can only be penetrated by another, is one of the primary sources of conflict for this show. Projected by the Angels and Evangelions, it renders conventional weapons useless against them (it took all the power in Japan to break through just one!). Although it is mainly a defensive tool, the Angels and occasionally the Evangelions, are shown using A.T. Fields offensively, by projecting them in a unique manner (The "Shadow" Angel inverted his A.T. Field, essentially creating a black hole.) N2 Mines, which stand for Non-Nuclear, have the power of a nuclear missile, but even they can only momentarily paralyze a unit protected by an A.T. Field. Evangelions are typically seen entering close combat with Angels, as it is the most effective way of dealing with an A.T. Field.
The only other way to negate this seemingly impenetrable forcefield is through the use of the Lance Of Longinus. The Lance Of Longinus, created by the First Artificial Race and sent to Earth in each of the Moons (Lillith's Lance was destroyed upon impact), is the most powerful weapon in the series. It is considered a godly weapon, able to completely piece through an A.T. Field without one of it's own, and wreaks massive amount of damage to either, which is why SEELE was very upset that the Lance was lost in orbit around the moon when the 22nd Angel Arael (the mind rape Angel). It is speculated that the Lance was included with the Black and White seeds, to offer a security measure for whatever beings seek to control their (The First Ancestral Race's) creations.
"Were you expecting some cute girl? I apologize... it's just me Ikari Shinji..."
LCL is an orange liquid, that floods the entry plug of an Evangelion unit. Because it is oxygenated, it allows for pilots to breathe while completely submerged, and once an electrical current is run through the LCL, it allows it to become as dense as air, allowing the pilots to see clearly. The solution allows for pilots to interface with the Evangelion's soul.
LCL is the primordial soup of life, where all life originated on Earth. Special Agency NERV obtains LCL from the blood of Lillith deep underground Centeral Dogma. With the Lance piercing her chest, Lillith bleeds LCL ("smells like blood"), and forms the lake of tang in central dogma.
Plugsuits are skintight (mmf) spandex suits. that help reduce interference for the pilots, they are also capable of providing emergency medical aid, such as a defibrillator but have a limited amount of power. They are not required to pilot Eva, as Shinji has shown numerous times in the series, though it appears that the interface headsets (the things that Asuka always wears) are critical in synchronizing. They're also a major source of a lot of latex fetishes for the fans.
"PERVERT!"
A high synchronization rate is critical to piloting the Evangelion, which is why LCL, plugsuits, interface headsets and an astounding amount of testing is required to increase the pilot's ability to interface. Pilots control Evangelions through their thoughts, and are able to move Evangelion like a part of their body, only if they are able to maintain a synchronization rate over 10%. The higher it is, the less clumsy Evangelion becomes, which is crucial in aiming the various weapons and engaging in close combat with the Angels. However the downside is that the pilots receive information at a higher rate as well from the Evangelion unit, meaning they experience pain. and ultimately injuries the Eva units recieve if the synchronization rate is high enough (Asuka losing her eye for example... and then eventually Unit 02 being eaten).
Why Are The Pilots All Children and Orphans?: Yui Ikari and The Secret Of The Evangelions Where are their mothers?
Alas, the great question. Why send giant robots (biomechanical whatever) worth billions of dollars to do battle against giant alien invaders, and risking the local population and infrastructure, piloted by a bunch of kids?
The simple half answer is that because the Angels only gave 15 years of notice, that's just the average age the pilots were, (since they had to be created into candiates, and in some cases created).
The real answer is that you cannot be an Evangelion pilot without losing your mother.
Every student in Shinji's class have been hand selected by the mysterious Marodoc Institute (an organization affiliated with SEELE and NERV), as candidates to be an EVA pilot. They all do not have a mother.
The unit "core" of the Evangelion, is home to the soul of the pilot's mother, which is why (with the exception of Rei and Shinji), pilots cannot interface with different Eva units.
Yui Ikari first completed the biomechanical theory, before the year of Second Impact. She theorized that personality and a person's "soul" could be transplanted like machinery. After the hell of Second Impact, the Gehirn Institute hires her to help complete her theory and materialize it in Eva.
With the Magi system completed, the NERV now had a system to allow pilots to interface with a unit's soul, despite the Evangelion units being completely biological.. Yui Ikari willingly allowed herself to be assimilated into the Eva unit, to protect and watch over Shinji, and fulfill her goal of advancing humanity for the sake of children like her son.
This is why Unit 01 goes beserk 3 seperate times in the series. Shinji's mother is still alive inside Unit 01, and protects him at all costs.
Unfortunately Asuka's mother had a much more tragic case. Instead of assimilated her entire personality and body into Unit 02, only the love and caring for Asuka was assimilated (although it accomplished the same results).
I must formally apologise for sentenal's behaviour, we don't usually let him out too far from the ADT thread
He is impossible to argue/reason with so don't bother. I understand he is being very condescending to you and it is very frustrating, but that's just how he is.
Also, i never really understood eva myself, i think part to what happened to the production halfway (near end) through
Great thread OP. Eva is great, although anything with as loved as it will garner a lot of negative whining. The 2deep4u and pointing out bad religious symbolism (this wasn't what the show was about) have been the go-to posts for tryhards for a long time now.
This is one of those animes where if you don't like the characters than you probably won't enjoy the show. I hate Catcher in the Rye because I hate Holden Caulfield for being a whiny pussy too, but I don't hate Shinji Ikari. Probably because I don't think Holden has very convincing reasons for acting the way he does, but Shinji's character is far more convincing for me at least.
On September 14 2012 00:40 Zergneedsfood wrote: I'm with Sentenal on this. Watching Ikari Shinji was one of the most annoying experiences I've ever felt in anime. It's fine to have stories where the main character is thrust into a world that he doesn't want to be involved in and ends up having to deal with a lot of issues, psychological, physical, emotional, and there are probably a few good examples of this. But it's annoying as fuck when that character just acts like a retard.
The character doesn't act like a retard, he acts like a coward. That's kind of the point of the show :/
Coward for most of the time. But in the end he's the fucking boss, deciding to have none of that fake shit, where all are one entity and decides to live his live on his own, facing all fears and hardship as an individual.
In addition, as far as I am concerned about clues, hints and things they've shown in the rebuild movies so far, he's even Mr. fucking Universe for recreating the entire world to his liking. Some images from the rebuild movies even indicate, that the universe they all live in the rebuild movies isn't just the "second version of the world", but rather the fourth already (I don't remember exactly, but I think that's accurate).
So the rebuild series isn't just a revamped Evangelion, but more like a true sequel. If not and they just didn't care, then fuck it all, but at least the things that you see in the movies really point towards this, which is pretty cool.
And the most fun thing about the series is the reason why Hideaki Anno made the series as weird as it was in the first place. It's not a coincidence that the first half is kind of "standard" and then the second half is nothing like standard at all :-) Shinji's voice actress even lost control and tried to strangle the one who did the Asuka voice in the last scene of EoE, because she was so out of her mind with all the emotions.
Because you made the boss comment, I immediately related it to the AMV.
Watched the show, then "End of Eva." I understand it's more than giant mecha beating up giant aliens. I recognize that there's some very deep philosophizing going on. I can appreciate the creator's desire to tell a profound message through a thoroughly comical story (the action scenes are comical, not in the flippant and unprofessional sense, but in the "whtf, that's totally, ridiculously impossible but still so, so awesome, lol" sense).
I still wish it had simply been about giant mecha. T_T
It made sense until the last two episodes. And I kinda got the gist of the philosophical stuff that it was projecting at the end. But after 20-somthing episodes of teens in robots, I just wanted more of the robots at that point, lol. :-D
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
Kaworu is a unique angel, not one of Adam's children. Instead he is the soul of Adam, created during Second Impact after a human donor contacted the original being of light. He is the equivalent of Ayanami Rei (who is a half human born of Lillith and the remains of Yui Ikari).
His goal was to make contact with his original body, Adam (which had already fused into Gendo's hand), and met Shinji Ikari along the way and bonded with him. After confusing the body of Lillith with the body of Adam (if he had contacted with him, both the Angels and the Humans, essentially all life, would have perished), he accepts his fate for the sake of Shinji and chooses to die.
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
There's probably many interpretations. I think it helps to raise the question of whether the angels were even bad or trying to destroy humans in the first place. It's implied that the second impact only happened because humans did something to mess with adam there and caused him to blow up, and since then have just attacked angels on sight out of fear of a third impact. And the motivations of the angels is never clear, and kaworu doesn't make them any clearer, even if they are trying to reach adam, which would cause a third impact, we don't know why they want to reach adam. And as the more advanced angels show up, they appear to slowly be more able to contact humans (there is even a line somewhere asking why they call them angels, which are messengers of god, can't remember where though) with the angel that swallows shinji and the mind invading angel and finally kaworu. It's hard to tell why kaworu does what he does, because the motivations of the angels are so unclear.
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
There's probably many interpretations. I think it helps to raise the question of whether the angels were even bad or trying to destroy humans in the first place. It's implied that the second impact only happened because humans did something to mess with adam there and caused him to blow up, and since then have just attacked angels on sight out of fear of a third impact. And the motivations of the angels is never clear, and kaworu doesn't make them any clearer, even if they are trying to reach adam, which would cause a third impact, we don't know why they want to reach adam. And as the more advanced angels show up, they appear to slowly be more able to contact humans (there is even a line somewhere asking why they call them angels, which are messengers of god, can't remember where though) with the angel that swallows shinji and the mind invading angel and finally kaworu. It's hard to tell why kaworu does what he does, because the motivations of the angels are so unclear.
On September 13 2012 08:14 Gamegene wrote: Original post: Shit I did not mean to click enter.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
To whoever says that you have to like the characters to like the Anime, that is just a personal opinion. If you don't like the characters that doesn't mean the Anime is bad at all and I think there are good examples of Anime that are good and don't have exactly likeable characters.
Pretty sure it was the second anime I watched after Cowboy Bebop, not counting DBZ, Pokemon and such... It really made a huge impression on me, opened my eyes to what the anime-medium can really show. It has been a long time since I watched it, but some of the scenes still stands very, very clear.
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
There's probably many interpretations. I think it helps to raise the question of whether the angels were even bad or trying to destroy humans in the first place. It's implied that the second impact only happened because humans did something to mess with adam there and caused him to blow up, and since then have just attacked angels on sight out of fear of a third impact. And the motivations of the angels is never clear, and kaworu doesn't make them any clearer, even if they are trying to reach adam, which would cause a third impact, we don't know why they want to reach adam. And as the more advanced angels show up, they appear to slowly be more able to contact humans (there is even a line somewhere asking why they call them angels, which are messengers of god, can't remember where though) with the angel that swallows shinji and the mind invading angel and finally kaworu. It's hard to tell why kaworu does what he does, because the motivations of the angels are so unclear.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
I already know that. I still think their motivations are still pretty unclear, other than they want to reach Adam. The why is the unclear part, the effect of reaching adam will kill all humans, but the reason is vague. Just to kill everyone and rule the planet? More of a description of what would happen than a reason. I find it curious to think about whether the angels would fight each other if they encountered each other, if they are all different lifeform possibilities of what humanity could be. And the one-dimensional "kill everyone and rule" excuse for their actions doesn't really explain kaworu's actions very well either. That kind of answer is usually more a cop-out excuse that stands in for unknown reasons, than a true motivational reason itself. I think it's not a clear answer.
i still think that scene where mari yells THIS IS IT UNIT TWO YOUR FINAL TEST is the best scene ive ever watched also that like a boss amv last page was amazing
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
There's probably many interpretations. I think it helps to raise the question of whether the angels were even bad or trying to destroy humans in the first place. It's implied that the second impact only happened because humans did something to mess with adam there and caused him to blow up, and since then have just attacked angels on sight out of fear of a third impact. And the motivations of the angels is never clear, and kaworu doesn't make them any clearer, even if they are trying to reach adam, which would cause a third impact, we don't know why they want to reach adam. And as the more advanced angels show up, they appear to slowly be more able to contact humans (there is even a line somewhere asking why they call them angels, which are messengers of god, can't remember where though) with the angel that swallows shinji and the mind invading angel and finally kaworu. It's hard to tell why kaworu does what he does, because the motivations of the angels are so unclear.
On September 13 2012 08:14 Gamegene wrote: Original post: Shit I did not mean to click enter.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
I already know that. I still think their motivations are still pretty unclear, other than they want to reach Adam. The why is the unclear part, the effect of reaching adam will kill all humans, but the reason is vague. Just to kill everyone and rule the planet? More of a description of what would happen than a reason. I find it curious to think about whether the angels would fight each other if they encountered each other, if they are all different lifeform possibilities of what humanity could be. And the one-dimensional "kill everyone and rule" excuse for their actions doesn't really explain kaworu's actions very well either. That kind of answer is usually more a cop-out excuse that stands in for unknown reasons, than a true motivational reason itself. I think it's not a clear answer.
In episode 25, where Shinji is despairing over the fact that he killed Kaworu, he talks about how it was either kill or be killed.
In a sense, the Angels followed the same kind of logic humanity and NERV had in their defense: there are foreign, strange alien beings on the planet, who we cannot coexist with, and will destroy us unless we destroy them first. It's not like they cared about setting up a dominant government over the Earth, they just wanted to ensure their species survival.
Of course, Shinji is criticized during instrumentality for blindly following this logic, and told that he can't hide behind the excuse of "protecting mankind".
On September 14 2012 05:40 [F_]aths wrote: I have the possibly dumbest question for someone who watched NGE several times.
Is Kaworu the final angel, but decides to side with humanity after meeting Shinji?
There's probably many interpretations. I think it helps to raise the question of whether the angels were even bad or trying to destroy humans in the first place. It's implied that the second impact only happened because humans did something to mess with adam there and caused him to blow up, and since then have just attacked angels on sight out of fear of a third impact. And the motivations of the angels is never clear, and kaworu doesn't make them any clearer, even if they are trying to reach adam, which would cause a third impact, we don't know why they want to reach adam. And as the more advanced angels show up, they appear to slowly be more able to contact humans (there is even a line somewhere asking why they call them angels, which are messengers of god, can't remember where though) with the angel that swallows shinji and the mind invading angel and finally kaworu. It's hard to tell why kaworu does what he does, because the motivations of the angels are so unclear.
On September 13 2012 08:14 Gamegene wrote: Original post: Shit I did not mean to click enter.
The Angels are the offspring of the White Moon, and Adam the first. There are 15 Angels created by Adam, and 4 other Angels classified as such (Adam and Lilith being considered Angels by Seele for being born of the Moons).
Adam's children are described as humans who cast aside human form, meaning they were created from the same elements (the primordial soup of life), to be come the "monsters" they appear to be. Most of the Angel's have the same motivation: to reconnect with their now embryonic father Adam, and initiate a Third Impact that would eliminate all Lillian (Human) based life form. Angels become more and more complex with each appearance in the show, possibly a hint of how powerful they can be with maturity. Although it's explicitly stated by Kaworu and Kaji that the Angels wish to contact Adam, it's implied that the earlier angels were mistakened Lillith for Adam, since both come from the First Race. Even the last angel makes this mistake.
The reason why they want to eliminate humanity, is so that they do not have any competition for domination of the planet (biologically speaking).
Angels have all inherited from Adam: massive power to project energy, a core which holds their "soul", S2 engine and an A.T. Field.
I already know that. I still think their motivations are still pretty unclear, other than they want to reach Adam. The why is the unclear part, the effect of reaching adam will kill all humans, but the reason is vague. Just to kill everyone and rule the planet? More of a description of what would happen than a reason. I find it curious to think about whether the angels would fight each other if they encountered each other, if they are all different lifeform possibilities of what humanity could be. And the one-dimensional "kill everyone and rule" excuse for their actions doesn't really explain kaworu's actions very well either. That kind of answer is usually more a cop-out excuse that stands in for unknown reasons, than a true motivational reason itself. I think it's not a clear answer.
In episode 25, where Shinji is despairing over the fact that he killed Kaworu, he talks about how it was either kill or be killed.
In a sense, the Angels followed the same kind of logic humanity and NERV had in their defense: there are foreign, strange alien beings on the planet, who we cannot coexist with, and will destroy us unless we destroy them first. It's not like they cared about setting up a dominant government over the Earth, they just wanted to ensure their species survival.
Of course, Shinji is criticized during instrumentality for blindly following this logic, and told that he can't hide behind the excuse of "protecting mankind".
Also while Shinji is talking to Misato about killing Kaworu, she tells him that the ones who deserve to live are the ones with the will to live. And implied/said that Kaworu gave up on his will to live, and thus didn't deserve life, while Shinji chose to live. As I recall, Shinji also wasn't very comfortable with that explanation and was still beating himself up over killing Kaworu afterwards, especially since he was didn't resist and let Shinji make the choice, taking it out of his hands and rendering him helpless to Shinji's choice(because Kaworu "loved" him). And then during instrumentality he has to decide how he can deal and live with his choices, instead of the wishy washy identity crisis he goes throughout the entire show and letting others make all the decisions for him he has to establish a firm identity for himself and firm justifications for his choices that he can live with. In the end, that's actually really alot of what the show is about for all the characters; it's about growing up.
I think it is hard to get to the ground of the plot because most characters are lying most of the time. If someone says something, it is often to be revealed later in the show that it wasn't so. Often times a person who states something has incomplete information and it isn't always clear who is the puppet of whom.
On September 14 2012 06:11 Fyrewolf wrote: I still think their motivations are still pretty unclear, other than they want to reach Adam. The why is the unclear part, the effect of reaching adam will kill all humans, but the reason is vague. Just to kill everyone and rule the planet? More of a description of what would happen than a reason. I find it curious to think about whether the angels would fight each other if they encountered each other, if they are all different lifeform possibilities of what humanity could be. And the one-dimensional "kill everyone and rule" excuse for their actions doesn't really explain kaworu's actions very well either. That kind of answer is usually more a cop-out excuse that stands in for unknown reasons, than a true motivational reason itself. I think it's not a clear answer.
It's been a few years since I dove into the NGE Lore and I don't know if my version fits with the information in the opening post, so bare with me
If I remember correctly, the reason why the angels usually attack Neo Tokyo (and not just humanity as a whole) is because they want to reawaken Adam - which "coincidently" would cause the Third Impact and wipe out civilisation.
The Angels are drawn to Adams "sleeping body" (reverted to its embryo form after the Second Impact) because they are Incarnations of Adams Soul, seeking their original body - this is the reason why only one Angel at a time can exist and why they attacked the Ship with EVA-02 on it (Remember Kaji's Role; iirc he was carrying the Embryo in a briefcase at that point?).
To understand why Kaworu acted the way he did and what happend in EoE, you need to take into accounts the different "goals" of the factions. This topic confused me a lot, so I'll try to keep it simple: The Angels goal was a Third Impact by uniting Adams Soul with Adams body as I said above.
SEELEs goal was pretty much a Third Impact under their control by merging Adams Soul with Liliths (Mother of Humans) captured Body. Their aim was to use Kaworu (Being an artificial human-like angel in possession of SEELE) to fullfilling their goal. Forced Evolution of the Human race - The Human Instrumentality Project.
In the process of "Infiltration" Kaworu became friends with Shinji and realizes his honest intentions and desperation. When Kaworu successfully reached the Bottom of the Geo-Front he found Lilith, but realized its not Adam - and that he was tricked by SEELE. In foresight he gave his Life into Shinjis hands. Remember that he also connected with Rei and said they are "the same".
Another faction is Gendo Ikaris Secret Agenda: Using Rei (A clone from Lilith and Yuis DNA), Adams Body and EVA-01 (controlled by a Rei-Dummy-plug and Yuis Soul), he wants to create a Third Impact under his own control - as he believes that Rei will always obey him in the process. All just to reunite with Yui.
What actually happens in EoE is that Rei refuses Gendo Ikari at the beginning of the Third Impact because she realized her own Nature and Gendo using her (she realized she is a clone after blowing herself up to kill the Halo-like Angel and Kaworu probably let her understand even more) and instead gives control over the Third Impact (which is essentially a Soul-Harvest and uniting of human souls - bliss at the cost of individuality) to Shinji.
So, I hope these Lore-bombs were not packed to tightly and somewhat understandable. If you watch the mind-fuck-parts with those relationships in the background they make a lot more sense too.
/Edit: Oh, and remember that humanity itself is supposed to be the Final Angel after Kaworu Not as if this wasn't complicated enough already.
On September 14 2012 07:49 [F_]aths wrote: I think it is hard to get to the ground of the plot because most characters are lying most of the time. If someone says something, it is often to be revealed later in the show that it wasn't so. Often times a person who states something has incomplete information and it isn't always clear who is the puppet of whom.
i think it's cool when you rewatch the series, or any work that has a lot of plot twists, and just see the foreshadowing or the subtle tone hints.
On September 14 2012 06:11 Fyrewolf wrote: I still think their motivations are still pretty unclear, other than they want to reach Adam. The why is the unclear part, the effect of reaching adam will kill all humans, but the reason is vague. Just to kill everyone and rule the planet? More of a description of what would happen than a reason. I find it curious to think about whether the angels would fight each other if they encountered each other, if they are all different lifeform possibilities of what humanity could be. And the one-dimensional "kill everyone and rule" excuse for their actions doesn't really explain kaworu's actions very well either. That kind of answer is usually more a cop-out excuse that stands in for unknown reasons, than a true motivational reason itself. I think it's not a clear answer.
It's been a few years since I dove into the NGE Lore and I don't know if my version fits with the information in the opening post, so bare with me
If I remember correctly, the reason why the angels usually attack Neo Tokyo (and not just humanity as a whole) is because they want to reawaken Adam - which "coincidently" would cause the Third Impact and wipe out civilisation.
The Angels are drawn to Adams "sleeping body" (reverted to its embryo form after the Second Impact) because they are Incarnations of Adams Soul, seeking their original body - this is the reason why only one Angel at a time can exist and why they attacked the Ship with EVA-02 on it (Remember Kaji's Role; iirc he was carrying the Embryo in a briefcase at that point?).
To understand why Kaworu acted the way he did and what happend in EoE, you need to take into accounts the different "goals" of the factions. This topic confused me a lot, so I'll try to keep it simple: The Angels goal was a Third Impact by uniting Adams Soul with Adams body as I said above.
SEELEs goal was pretty much a Third Impact under their control by merging Adams Soul with Liliths (Mother of Humans) captured Body. Their aim was to use Kaworu (Being an artificial human-like angel in possession of SEELE) to fullfilling their goal. Forced Evolution of the Human race - The Human Instrumentality Project.
In the process of "Infiltration" Kaworu became friends with Shinji and realizes his honest intentions and desperation. When Kaworu successfully reached the Bottom of the Geo-Front he found Lilith, but realized its not Adam - and that he was tricked by SEELE. In foresight he gave his Life into Shinjis hands. Remember that he also connected with Rei and said they are "the same".
Another faction is Gendo Ikaris Secret Agenda: Using Rei (A clone from Lilith and Yuis DNA), Adams Body and EVA-01 (controlled by a Rei-Dummy-plug and Yuis Soul), he wants to create a Third Impact under his own control - as he believes that Rei will always obey him in the process. All just to reunite with Yui.
What actually happens in EoE is that Rei refuses Gendo Ikari at the beginning of the Third Impact because she realized her own Nature and Gendo using her (she realized she is a clone after blowing herself up to kill the Halo-like Angel and Kaworu probably let her understand even more) and instead gives control over the Third Impact (which is essentially a Soul-Harvest and uniting of human souls - bliss at the cost of individuality) to Shinji.
So, I hope these Lore-bombs were not packed to tightly and somewhat understandable. If you watch the mind-fuck-parts with those relationships in the background they make a lot more sense too.
/Edit: Oh, and remember that humanity itself is supposed to be the Final Angel after Kaworu Not as if this wasn't complicated enough already.
It's been a couple years since I last watched the show as well. I like a lot of these ideas, but I'm not so sure about the various angels being "Incarnations of Adam's Soul, seeking their original body". Although the angels originated from Adam, I see them more as the sons and daughters of Adam, rather than reincarnations of him, especially if humanity is also supposed to be orignating from Lillith. Each of the angels have their own names as well. Being the progeny of Adam could mean they have a kindred soul with Adam, that may react with Adam, if that is what is happening. I don't really remember the precise details of the second impact anymore, but I do remember those factions and their different plans, seeles forced instrumentality, gendo wanting to revive yui, and rei refusing him in EoE, but thank you for detailing that. Also, as I interperet it I think Rei actually has Lilliths soul in her(not just dna from cloning); at one point she is described as a container for souls, Lillith is always shown as lifeless and doesn't seem to be using it, and Rei is powerful enough to battle Kaworu's AT field with her own(without an eva).
By the way, being german makes it somewhat strange to read all those names like Seele (soul), Gehirn (brain), Nerv (nerve) and so on. NGE has some germany-influenced parts like the mortar train and of course Asuka who said Baumkuchen ("bamukuhen", cylindrical cake) and Guten Morgen (good morning.)
I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
I think hearing the people speak English is more interesting.
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
Shinji is my least favorite main character of all time. Ruined the anime for me, at least partially. It'd have been much better with a main char that wasn't as awful.
I really liked Rei, she's one of my favorite characters and was my favorite character in the anime. I also like her voice actor in general.
The opening is one of my all-time favorites for animes as well. Such a shame the main character sucks so much, this could have been much better. (I haven't seen any movies, heard he might have been slightly better there).
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
Anno HATED otakus (ironically enough, otakus are mostly responsible for the massive merchanise success of NGE), and made Shinji reflect some of the more selfish aspects of their culture.
The hospital room scene was a direct middle finger to them.
Shinji is meant to be a very unlikeable character, as he is a loner, he is a loser, he mopes around and gets on people's nerves with his depression and lack of confidence/self esteem. A lot of the story revolves around him trying to get past the "hedgehog's dilemma" and evolve as a character, yet the plot and Anno repeatedly stomps all over him until he's the puddle that appears in EoE.
The franchise certainly gives the audience a lot of chances to sympathize and relate to Shinji, even + Show Spoiler +
allowing him to break through and rescue Rei in 2.0
. But the franchise also gives an equal number of opportunities for the other main characters to criticize his character flaws.
LOL this is so great! Even though it's not 5 seconds, this is still actually a pretty legit "5 seconds" thing (covers the show overall, instead of many of these videos which only focus on 1 trivial aspect or such)
On September 15 2012 04:24 Tabularasa wrote: I got used to it pretty quickly, but I guess it makes it less strange when you only read them in subtitles (I prefer sub over dub in most cases). Its like using Acronyms or Brand Names in a sentence.
But its just hilarious when Asuka gets that call from germany and Shinji listens to her speaking german, its ridiculously bad ;D
I have to admit, Ive rewatched this vid twice already and its pretty fcking cool, despite it being gross and disgusting.
Im sold, Ill skip 1.0 and go straight to 2.0 though.
1.0 is pretty much a new theatrical version of the first six episodes, with no real divergence other than amazing visuals and animation this time around.
You might as well watch it, since it's pretty cool to see a 90's anime being presented with today's high quality production.
Also I would like to say that I feel the remake ( at least so far ) is a lot less... depressing? It feels more adventurous and actiony, (even the colors are brighter I think)
In the original, I remember the beginning (the first 6 roughly episodes) felt really claustrophobic (they don't go anywhere much, few characters, not much happening, etc.), and sorta made me depressed. Shinji and his depression was also emphasized more, and it really made the series emotional for me to watch. It felt really sad. In the remake they spend much less time on it. I guess you could say the remakes are more "streamlined" (if that's the right word), as in they should appeal to a larger audience.
But yea Eva 1.0 is pretty much very faithful, nothing very significant changed. 2.0 you start to see some new stuff (like Mari) and can see how 3.0 may be very different than the original plot.
On September 15 2012 09:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Also I would like to say that I feel the remake ( at least so far ) is a lot less... depressing? It feels more adventurous and actiony, (even the colors are brighter I think)
In the original, I remember the beginning (the first 6 roughly episodes) felt really claustrophobic (they don't go anywhere much, few characters, not much happening, etc.), and sorta made me depressed. Shinji and his depression was also emphasized more, and it really made the series emotional for me to watch. It felt really sad. In the remake they spend much less time on it. I guess you could say the remakes are more "streamlined" (if that's the right word), as in they should appeal to a larger audience.
But yea Eva 1.0 is pretty much very faithful, nothing very significant changed. 2.0 you start to see some new stuff (like Mari) and can see how 3.0 may be very different than the original plot.
I think the best way to describe it is to have all the characters, and put them on medication.
They're not essentially happier, but they're definitely more emotionally stable and balanced.
I also feel like the people that refuse to watch because they "hate" Shinji so much are completely missing the point of the show xD
This is the kind of anime for me that was best watched absolutely stoned out of my mind/on acid, and trying to actually feel the emotions and thoughts of the characters, and that my friends is called "Living the dream".
I suggest if you didn't like it when you first tried watching, go attempt to REALLY live the dream. And no, it won't be happy.
On September 15 2012 08:39 koreasilver wrote: Wasn't Shinji being a shit character the main point of his character?
Probably, but I can't see it as anything but a very strong negative. For mechas alone I think that Muv-Luv Alternative does a much better job with a shit main character. Then again Visual Novels tend to have higher quality character personalities / development than animes due to them getting like 10x the time to work with so that might not be a completely fair comparison but ...
Oh right now that I've rewatch-skipped this a little bit I really don't think they handed the ending to the anime properly, either. I don't think NGE lived up to the potential I saw in the first few episodes... Though again that might have changed with the movies or whatever. I guess it's a really old anime and a frontrunner so I should be more understanding but meh
On September 15 2012 08:39 koreasilver wrote: Wasn't Shinji being a shit character the main point of his character?
Probably, but I can't see it as anything but a very strong negative. For mechas alone I think that Muv-Luv Alternative does a much better job with a shit main character. Then again Visual Novels tend to have higher quality character personalities / development than animes due to them getting like 10x the time to work with so that might not be a completely fair comparison but ...
Oh right now that I've rewatch-skipped this a little bit I really don't think they handed the ending to the anime properly, either. I don't think NGE lived up to the potential I saw in the first few episodes... Though again that might have changed with the movies or whatever. I guess it's a really old anime and a frontrunner so I should be more understanding but meh
I think you just made my brain explode right there, with that Shinji Ikari->Shirogane Takeru comparison
Ok I need to talk to somebody about this.....I just watched 2.0 for the first time (was trying to put it off after 1.0 till all 4, but fuck it couldn't do it) and........just wow.
The first movie was perfect, basically just the first 6 episodes with some clarification here and there as people said......but this 2.0 has thrown me off really hard. Not in a bad way, just in a HOLY FUCKING WTF DID I JUST WATCH NOOOO ASUKA WAIT WTF NEW CHICK WAIT WTF UNIT02 WAIT WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF.
So.......to other people who have watched every single episode of the anime over 20 times each who watched 2.0 with 0 warning as to just what it was. What do you think about it?
All I can think is that this is no longer anything even close to the original anime (in a good way), but I fear Asuka is going to be very much less important than she was in the anime which makes me sad, her being my favorite character.
But really....those last 30-40 minutes are just an absolute mindfuck and even MORE so if you know exactly what SHOULD be happening according to the anime......holy fucking shit.
On September 15 2012 08:39 koreasilver wrote: Wasn't Shinji being a shit character the main point of his character?
Probably, but I can't see it as anything but a very strong negative. For mechas alone I think that Muv-Luv Alternative does a much better job with a shit main character. Then again Visual Novels tend to have higher quality character personalities / development than animes due to them getting like 10x the time to work with so that might not be a completely fair comparison but ...
Oh right now that I've rewatch-skipped this a little bit I really don't think they handed the ending to the anime properly, either. I don't think NGE lived up to the potential I saw in the first few episodes... Though again that might have changed with the movies or whatever. I guess it's a really old anime and a frontrunner so I should be more understanding but meh
I think you just made my brain explode right there, with that Shinji Ikari->Shirogane Takeru comparison
If Takeru was the MC of Evangelion the show would be like 200x better -.-. Takeru goes through the same mental breakdown as shinji but difference is that he grows the fuck up
On September 15 2012 12:58 N3rV[Green] wrote: Ok I need to talk to somebody about this.....I just watched 2.0 for the first time (was trying to put it off after 1.0 till all 4, but fuck it couldn't do it) and........just wow.
The first movie was perfect, basically just the first 6 episodes with some clarification here and there as people said......but this 2.0 has thrown me off really hard. Not in a bad way, just in a HOLY FUCKING WTF DID I JUST WATCH NOOOO ASUKA WAIT WTF NEW CHICK WAIT WTF UNIT02 WAIT WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF.
So.......to other people who have watched every single episode of the anime over 20 times each who watched 2.0 with 0 warning as to just what it was. What do you think about it?
All I can think is that this is no longer anything even close to the original anime (in a good way), but I fear Asuka is going to be very much less important than she was in the anime which makes me sad, her being my favorite character.
But really....those last 30-40 minutes are just an absolute mindfuck and even MORE so if you know exactly what SHOULD be happening according to the anime......holy fucking shit.
I can't be alone here can I?
I liked 2.2. Its definitely going in a different direction than the series. As for Asuka, shes definitely going to have a significant role. Trailers for the 3rd movie have alot of "Pirate Asuka".
On September 15 2012 12:58 N3rV[Green] wrote: Ok I need to talk to somebody about this.....I just watched 2.0 for the first time (was trying to put it off after 1.0 till all 4, but fuck it couldn't do it) and........just wow.
The first movie was perfect, basically just the first 6 episodes with some clarification here and there as people said......but this 2.0 has thrown me off really hard. Not in a bad way, just in a HOLY FUCKING WTF DID I JUST WATCH NOOOO ASUKA WAIT WTF NEW CHICK WAIT WTF UNIT02 WAIT WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF.
So.......to other people who have watched every single episode of the anime over 20 times each who watched 2.0 with 0 warning as to just what it was. What do you think about it?
All I can think is that this is no longer anything even close to the original anime (in a good way), but I fear Asuka is going to be very much less important than she was in the anime which makes me sad, her being my favorite character.
But really....those last 30-40 minutes are just an absolute mindfuck and even MORE so if you know exactly what SHOULD be happening according to the anime......holy fucking shit.
I can't be alone here can I?
I liked 2.2. Its definitely going in a different direction than the series. As for Asuka, shes definitely going to have a significant role. Trailers for the 3rd movie are all about "Pirate Asuka".
If you notice closely the injuries she sustained in 2.0 are the same ones that she took from the mass production evas on maya's screen. cool little reference.
I also have to say that it was fucking painful to watch Asuka in her final battle in the anime movies. Fuck dude, so much of this serious is so painful but so amazing at the same time that colors on a screen that in all reality mean nothing can have such a profound effect on our emotions in general.
Thanks for those trailers too, hadn't seen them but they give me confidence that the rest will be absolutely amazzzing.
I didn't really like the series (just stopped watching somewhere after episode 10, just had no real motivation to keep watching), are the rebuild/movies/whatever different enough that I might like it even if I disliked the series?
On September 15 2012 17:07 Maxie wrote: I didn't really like the series (just stopped watching somewhere after episode 10, just had no real motivation to keep watching), are the rebuild/movies/whatever different enough that I might like it even if I disliked the series?
The End of Evangelion movie is a direct sequel to the television series. Rebuild is an alternative retelling of the story, with the plot going in a different direction in 2.0.
I would suggest trying the television series again with an open mind. Otherwise go ahead and watch Rebuild, though some parts, especially the ending of 2.0, will not make sense if you haven't finished the television.
On September 15 2012 11:53 Savi[wOk] wrote: My most favorite Anime. No other anime has changed me so much in my life.
Me too, me tooo ^^ Evangelion man, where to start? The greatest anime ever drawn/animated, the whole series for me was art in motion. I first watched it back in 1998 and every single time I re-watch it I spend a week thinking about the implications of the Human Instrumentality Project, or just the meaning of everything in the show. Masterclass through and through
On September 15 2012 12:58 N3rV[Green] wrote: Ok I need to talk to somebody about this.....I just watched 2.0 for the first time (was trying to put it off after 1.0 till all 4, but fuck it couldn't do it) and........just wow.
The first movie was perfect, basically just the first 6 episodes with some clarification here and there as people said......but this 2.0 has thrown me off really hard. Not in a bad way, just in a HOLY FUCKING WTF DID I JUST WATCH NOOOO ASUKA WAIT WTF NEW CHICK WAIT WTF UNIT02 WAIT WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF.
So.......to other people who have watched every single episode of the anime over 20 times each who watched 2.0 with 0 warning as to just what it was. What do you think about it?
All I can think is that this is no longer anything even close to the original anime (in a good way), but I fear Asuka is going to be very much less important than she was in the anime which makes me sad, her being my favorite character.
But really....those last 30-40 minutes are just an absolute mindfuck and even MORE so if you know exactly what SHOULD be happening according to the anime......holy fucking shit.
I can't be alone here can I?
Yeah I definitely felt the same way about 2.0.
I am someone who really loved Eva when it first came out, watching it on VHS tapes borrowed from my not-so-local (the rental store that had them was about 40 minutes drive away which is very far where I live). I was pretty depressed about the ending back then, I think it really affected me to have ended like that, and I spent many hours afterwards trawling websites trying to find out what it all meant. One of the best ones I found was www.evaotaku.com. It also contains a transcript of an apparently 'proper' episode 25 and 26 of the TV series, which can be found at:
It's interesting reading, even if there is no guarantee it's real.
Anyway, I found Rebuild 1.0 to be good but essentially exactly the same as the TV series - which was fine but slightly disappointing. Then going into 2.0, I only watched it last year sometime, although it came out in 2009. I had read quite a bit about it, though I had indeed missed the major ending spoilers, so when I came around to watching it, I was blown away. I even really enjoyed seeing certain feelings fleshed out better (i.e. the main love triangle), with less ambiguity - though I can see how it clears some of the 'fog' and in some ways diminishes the story's appeal. In any case, I haven't been on the edge of my seat like that for quite some time when watching anything - part of it was definitely nostalgia but there's no doubt it is a masterfully crafted piece of animated cinema. The action sequences were enthralling, just like I remembered the original series being at the time.
The only complaint I had was the slightly pretentious beserk Eva scene, and I would agree with some that Anno went a little over the top. But I don't think Evangelion has ever been known for hiding its excesses, and that's probably part of the reason why it's so popular today.
I liked this Anime a lot. And I hardly watch any Anime. I only watched the original and End of Evangelion.
Shinji is like the pinnacle of depressive behavior, thats why i even liked the last episodes because he could finally overcome them. The overall plot gets lost in the end, which is a bit sad. End of Evangelion is exactly what the community deserved, they were unhappy with the ending and got a movie where Shinjis depression wins and destroys whole humankind with it.
Actually he gave humankind a new chance.Yes first he wishes death to all humans and they turn to LCL , but then in the dialogue with Rei(The scene where Lillith spills blood from her neck) he realizes thats not the world he wanted.Rei even says something like humankind can come back if they or Shinji wishes to.Theres also plenty of signs for it:EVA-01 coming out of Lilliths eye getting her wings/the orchestral "happily" sounding music/the Black Moon explodes and releases the souls. Its actually a happy ending but what makes it so confusing is that Shinji chokes Asuka at the end.
This is my favourite Anime of all time.Thanks for this Thread.
I have now watched 5 episodes of of this series, my first anime. But it dosen't seem so deep as everyone is saying? Am i missing something or? Wathcing it with english sutbtitles, and it seems weird at times.
Evangelion is by far my favorite anime. I'm actually pretty bummed out that I never found any series that were similar because I love all the ambiguity and weird stuff. Extremely excited for 3.0
On September 16 2012 00:34 Tomba wrote: I have now watched 5 episodes of of this series, my first anime. But it dosen't seem so deep as everyone is saying? Am i missing something or? Wathcing it with english sutbtitles, and it seems weird at times.
once you get to the second half of the series is progressively gets more wtf...
On September 16 2012 00:34 Tomba wrote: I have now watched 5 episodes of of this series, my first anime. But it dosen't seem so deep as everyone is saying? Am i missing something or? Wathcing it with english sutbtitles, and it seems weird at times.
once you get to the second half of the series is progressively gets more wtf...
This is 100% a show you must give time to and think a LOT, and if I remember well enough, the serious crazy doesn't start until like 13-15 episodes. All I can say is, just watch the WHOLE series (but I honestly wouldn't even watch the original last two episodes, just watch the end of evangelion movies), and then go watch the Rebuild 1.0/2.0. You're poor mind will be in tatters.
As to the chronology of the show----->rebuild, it must be some really messed up outcome of the end of the anime to reset all the people but leave the red sea, blood on the moon, and many other little details. Fuck I need to watch the anime series again, it's too damn fuzzy. But basically, the Rebuild movies ARE directly after the Anime, we just don't really know how or why. xD
...why does the moon already have rei's blood on it?
On September 16 2012 00:29 a176 wrote: rebuild is obv a sequel -> red ocean
There is a theory for that, but there is also Anno saying that Rebuild is his way to "recreate Evangelion as he wanted it to be". Until its actually confirmed for being truth or not, "Rebuild is a sequel" is nothing more than fanon.
On September 15 2012 17:07 Maxie wrote: I didn't really like the series (just stopped watching somewhere after episode 10, just had no real motivation to keep watching), are the rebuild/movies/whatever different enough that I might like it even if I disliked the series?
Give Rebuild a shot. Rebuild 1 is mostly a the first dozen episodes or so, except alot nicer looking, but Rebuild 2 is different/alot better than what the series was IMO. Rebuild isn't a masterpiece or anything, but its worth a watch.
On September 16 2012 00:29 a176 wrote: rebuild is obv a sequel -> red ocean
There is a theory for that, but there is also Anno saying that Rebuild is his way to "recreate Evangelion as he wanted it to be". Until its actually confirmed for being truth or not, "Rebuild is a sequel" is nothing more than fanon.
On September 15 2012 17:07 Maxie wrote: I didn't really like the series (just stopped watching somewhere after episode 10, just had no real motivation to keep watching), are the rebuild/movies/whatever different enough that I might like it even if I disliked the series?
Give Rebuild a shot. Rebuild 1 is mostly a the first dozen episodes or so, except alot nicer looking, but Rebuild 2 is different/alot better than what the series was IMO. Rebuild isn't a masterpiece or anything, but its worth a watch.
I guess I'll do that, though all the talk about "it's a sequel!!" sort of makes me reconsider it a little. But if Rebuild is alot better than the series, it's worth a shot. i didn't hate/dislike what I saw of the series, really, I just... didn't have any urge to keep watching.
I was a big fan of this series when I was about 14, 10 years ago, it had a huge impact on me. I watched the whole series again about 6 months ago with my wife, it was exactly how I remembered but she was a bit underwhelmed
Anyway, I had no idea about the rebuilds, I'd like to watch them but I have no idea how to watch them. Are they on the internet somewhere?
On September 16 2012 05:20 Meta wrote: I was a big fan of this series when I was about 14, 10 years ago, it had a huge impact on me. I watched the whole series again about 6 months ago with my wife, it was exactly how I remembered but she was a bit underwhelmed
Anyway, I had no idea about the rebuilds, I'd like to watch them but I have no idea how to watch them. Are they on the internet somewhere?
There is so much to say about Evangelion... Misato's sexual identity, Shinji's repressed lust, the concept of consciousness, the representation of the self... An old philosophy teacher once said that in the western world, we tend to see the community as a group composed of individuals; but what if it really was the individual that is only the fraction of a whole?
The idea of the AT-field was one of the most brilliant ideas of the show, and it holds in itself the essence of the series : an outside made to appeal to otakus and others looking for a pleasurable thrill, and a hidden meaning that tries to expand your vision, open your eyes.
On September 16 2012 14:57 Kukaracha wrote: I'm sad that I missed this thread.
There is so much to say about Evangelion... Misato's sexual identity, Shinji's repressed lust, the concept of consciousness, the representation of the self... An old philosophy teacher once said that in the western world, we tend to see the community as a group composed of individuals; but what if it really was the individual that is only the fraction of a whole?
The idea of the AT-field was one of the most brilliant ideas of the show, and it holds in itself the essence of the series : an outside made to appeal to otakus and others looking for a pleasurable thrill, and a hidden meaning that tries to expand your vision, open your eyes.
i'm not so sure about the "repressed lust" part. i mean he did reject asuka's advances quite often, and even misato's.
the only real act of "lust" was the hospital room scene, but he's like 14-15. he did what any other adolescent would do if they saw a pair of perky bare breasts in front of them (if they knew no one was watching).
On September 16 2012 14:57 Kukaracha wrote: I'm sad that I missed this thread.
There is so much to say about Evangelion... Misato's sexual identity, Shinji's repressed lust, the concept of consciousness, the representation of the self... An old philosophy teacher once said that in the western world, we tend to see the community as a group composed of individuals; but what if it really was the individual that is only the fraction of a whole?
The idea of the AT-field was one of the most brilliant ideas of the show, and it holds in itself the essence of the series : an outside made to appeal to otakus and others looking for a pleasurable thrill, and a hidden meaning that tries to expand your vision, open your eyes.
Such a great series. I don't think anything has stuck with me for as long as NGE has which is quite funny since I have not revisited the series in any way since originally watching it and EoE. Definitely setting some time aside to rewatch the series, the movies and the Rebuilds :D
On September 16 2012 05:20 Meta wrote: I was a big fan of this series when I was about 14, 10 years ago, it had a huge impact on me. I watched the whole series again about 6 months ago with my wife, it was exactly how I remembered but she was a bit underwhelmed
Anyway, I had no idea about the rebuilds, I'd like to watch them but I have no idea how to watch them. Are they on the internet somewhere?
Yeah.. I'm not gonna buy it. I'd rather not watch it than have to buy it. Maybe someday there will be a torrent, but until then, I'll just wait until all 4 and then decide to purchase.
What really sucks is they are on youtube in german AND spanish, but not english.
On September 16 2012 15:25 Kaal wrote: I know right, it's just so DEEP.
You sound mad.
To each his own, I guess. I personally enjoy complex works.
On September 16 2012 15:00 Gamegene wrote: i'm not so sure about the "repressed lust" part. i mean he did reject asuka's advances quite often, and even misato's.
the only real act of "lust" was the hospital room scene, but he's like 14-15. he did what any other adolescent would do if they saw a pair of perky bare breasts in front of them (if they knew no one was watching).
I don't know, the hospital scene didn't seem normal to me. But maybe we have different visions of sexuality... heh.
The fact that he's portrayed as a weak teenager, a "semi-child" already cancels his sexual potential. It doesn't seem as if he doesn't want to, but that he represses his urges that he unconsciously knows as imposible to satisfy. He doesn't simply reject Misato and Asuka; he violently reacts to what scares him. The key term here is "reaction".¸On the contrary, a man like Kaji can calmly deal with such interactions, when Shinji seems completely shaken each time his adulthood appears on the surface.
It really is just like the lonely otaku who turns to the imaginary world simply because he doesn't feel that he's a fully capable male in reality.
Thinking ahead to 3.0, do people remember how long it took to get a good version of 1.0/2.0 with subs online?
Cause it would be torture now that I've seen 2.0 to know 3.0 is out and released, but I can't watch it for like 4 months.......really hope it's like.....fast xD
Well this thread made me re watch EoE and god damn is it bat shit crazy.
the only real act of "lust" was the hospital room scene,
Dude the amount of giant phallic symbols penetrating things is astronomical. And there is a giant vagina on her head at the end. The amount of repressed lust this kid has is cruazhy.
I do feel like this is a show which showed a generation that anime could be more than just DBZ/saint seya/inuyasha. But you kinda had to be there.
I doubt younger generations who have already been exposed to some of the themes of the show or some of it's craziness in other form's of media would understand what made NGE so special.
On September 17 2012 15:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: Thinking ahead to 3.0, do people remember how long it took to get a good version of 1.0/2.0 with subs online?
Cause it would be torture now that I've seen 2.0 to know 3.0 is out and released, but I can't watch it for like 4 months.......really hope it's like.....fast xD
There probably won't be a good quality sub out until the dvd is released. I remember I had to wait for the dvd to watch 2.0.
I believe Evangelion was the first anime I watched on my PC, no less than on google videos/stream or whatever it was called back then. I was 14 at the time and the ending was pretty "wtf" though, my few previous animes had been the likes of DB/DBZ.
New Eva movies have pretty high entertainment value and I'm really liking them, can't wait till proper subbed release of 3.0.
On September 17 2012 15:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: Thinking ahead to 3.0, do people remember how long it took to get a good version of 1.0/2.0 with subs online?
Cause it would be torture now that I've seen 2.0 to know 3.0 is out and released, but I can't watch it for like 4 months.......really hope it's like.....fast xD
I remember I resorted to watching 2.0 before it was released on dvd by watching it from a fancam I dled where the screen wasn't even parallel lol.
On September 17 2012 15:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: Thinking ahead to 3.0, do people remember how long it took to get a good version of 1.0/2.0 with subs online?
Cause it would be torture now that I've seen 2.0 to know 3.0 is out and released, but I can't watch it for like 4 months.......really hope it's like.....fast xD
There probably won't be a good quality sub out until the dvd is released. I remember I had to wait for the dvd to watch 2.0.
Japanese theaters are crazily prepared for camrips. They even have infared lasers to ruin cameras without a filter lololol.
On September 17 2012 15:18 N3rV[Green] wrote: Thinking ahead to 3.0, do people remember how long it took to get a good version of 1.0/2.0 with subs online?
Cause it would be torture now that I've seen 2.0 to know 3.0 is out and released, but I can't watch it for like 4 months.......really hope it's like.....fast xD
There probably won't be a good quality sub out until the dvd is released. I remember I had to wait for the dvd to watch 2.0.
Japanese theaters are crazily prepared for camrips. They even have infared lasers to ruin cameras without a filter lololol.
Well I found one cam rip but it was horrible quality and had someones head in the way so I decided to wait the extra few months.
I just watched rebuild 1 and 2. It makes me kinda sad to watch rebuild 2. Maybe because I was hoping it would be more like the series and I wanted to remember my childhood of watching it, and 2 was nothing like the series, so many changes. Why did they change the plot so much? I thought rebuild was supposed to just be how anno wanted to tell the story but didn't have the budget for the first time around? Makes no sense that now there's completely new characters, different events, in #1 unit 01 didn't move on its own to stop the light from falling on shinji either, it's weird. Also Is it me or does kaji sound so much worse in rebuild than in the original? Still great movies though, I guess I was just hoping for it to be more true to the series.
Also in the original series, wasn't it pronounced "jindo" ikari, not "gendo?" Or is my memory screwing with me? And the last angel fight from rebuild #2, I don't even recognize it from the series. I remember shinjis eva going berserk and eating the angel, not all that stuff with rei, and I don't even remember rei or asuka fighting it. #2 just left my mind full of fuck :/
Editted spoilers, since I'm talking about rebuild.
By the way... though I love the whole anime, I really hate the scene where the EVA series attack the EVA 02!!!
I also have a difficult time explaining to somebody who hasn't seen the anime just why it's so good and I don't think ANYBODY could have watched UNIT02's last fight without some cringing and sadness xD
I didn't really like watching it, seeing as Asuka was by far my favorite (come on, I was a 14 year old boy who liked redheads haha) but it was seriously epic.
I think my favorite memory about the EVA serious as a whole was when my sister first watched it the year it came out and I was just 6 or so, she let me watch the first couple who episodes but there came a time where she just said "you can't watch this anymore"
I never wanted to watch something more in my life, so I sneaked into her room (don't ask) during the episode where an Angel takes over the new EVA during the climax of the fight. Let's just say I didn't want to watch anymore xD
Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
The standout thing for me with NGE (when it was released and when I was exposed to it) was that, compared to most media at the time, it was never clear that the "good guy" (or even humanity) was actually going to win in the end - and if they did, it wasn't going to be conventional. That's one of the big factors that made it so memorable for me - compared to most pieces within the medium at the time (DBZ for example - everyone knew Goku was never going to actually die).
On September 18 2012 12:10 Dark_Chill wrote: Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
Cool that you're forming ideas based solely on the discussion, must be presenting a pretty interesting (re: weird) picture of this great series. To answer your question, Shinji is indeed likeable to some (myself included!) but as you point out a character can be depressed. I bet many found him unlikeable due to that - many jokes have been made about why a red-blooded teenager would be anything less than overjoyed when offered a chance to pilot mecha machines alongside babes and heaps of crazy sweet science going down all around. But to say people seemingly aren't occupied by the plot, well, that's what makes Shinji worth enduring through as he repeatedly cries, runs away and chokes up at all the worst times. Sure he may never turn his pain around and make something lovely out of it like education for the children, but if you want to see what the end is you really just gotta watch the show. Could we even consider a fictional character, even picture one completely stripped of their story? They would barely exist, like a line drawn on a piece of paper.
Anyway it is enjoyable to sit through. The first half (roughly) takes it slow through the simple story of awe inspiring battles with the angels and the histories of them all. The next half, things escalate quickly.
For me it was the kind of anime when an episode ends I simply HAD to watch the next one. I also like Shinji as a character, he's very depressed, unhappy, scared of himself and not being a kid anymore, pretty much a great deal like me when I was 13-14 years old. Made it very easy to relate to him.
Then I re-watched it as a 17-18 year old stoner with my best bud. Watching the first episode with him was an amazing experience, blazed out of our minds, trying to put ourselves into the situation Shinji was thrown into and "Living the dream" or reeeeaaaallly trying to understand the characters and their motives. We literally paused and talked/just looked at each other blankly more than a few times during the series, and after watching the entire series all we could think to do was go through it again.
On September 18 2012 12:10 Dark_Chill wrote: Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? [...] So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
Shinji isn't really depressed, as in a depressive state. He's simply a weak teenager. Literaly a nobody. Take a random nerd from your high school classmates. Put the world on his shoulders. That's Shinji. He's really the archetype of an otaku : irresponsible, weak-minded, asocial, afraid of life in general. But at the same time, a victim who needs help in understanding he can do very well on his own (see the end of the show).
I wouldn't say he's a likeable character. On the contrary, his lack of motivation and overall cowardice are irritating. But we slowly watch him grow and understand that his only crime is that he's an ordinary kid thrown in an exceptional situation. We get to see what "saving the world" would actually imply : losing loved ones, getting hurt, slowly falling into despair as challenges never seem to stop coming. It could also be a pessimistic description of life, actually...
About the plot itself, I believe the classical start and the quick pace of the show got most viewers hooked. After all, giant robots, cute girls. It all starts in medias res, as the first Angel attacks, and the coming of each Angel poses a problem on its own, with new challenges and a new focus on the characters. The rich backround acts as a filler, and at the same time as a creator of artificial nostalgia. Also, the fanservice goodies released in parallel of the show speak for themselves : Eva did a great job in attracting your average otaku. The initial purpose was to teach them a "lesson" about life, but the ending, too harsh and complex for most, found ony rejection from those it was trying to reach.
On September 18 2012 12:10 Dark_Chill wrote: Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
I'm pretty sure anyone who says they like Shinji is just trolling, seeing as how he doesn't have any redeemable personality traits, period.
Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
For anyone hesitant to see the new movies, they are absolutely AWESOME.
I was the type of fan that was obsessed with this show, watched the entire series in one sitting and was devastated when I saw the last episodes. Even the old movies didn't console me, I was depressed for days.
I'm sure the new movies will eventually leave me the same way(hopefully not), but the first two were amazing and I can't wait for the third.
Edit: I forgot to mention this thread was what made me watch the new movies. When I first heard of them I was way too bitter about the series to watch them but time had healed the wounds and when I saw this thread + the mention of the new movies I decided to watch them. So to anyone that was hesitant like I was, do it, you won't regret it(yet).
On September 18 2012 12:10 Dark_Chill wrote: Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
I'm pretty sure anyone who says they like Shinji is just trolling, seeing as how he doesn't have any redeemable personality traits, period.
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
Can't you just leave? Obviously you can't accept that other people can have different feelings about things than your own.
I like Shinji. I think he's an interesting character with some very complex issues different from pretty much any anime I've watched. Not everything in life is sunshine and rainbows.
Also, that quote just seems stupid. Anime is supposed to be about "making fun or gaining the sympathy of the audience"??? That pile of text is honestly not saying a damn thing other than "we should all be happy and healthy!!!"
Really, you just have to keep shitting on things you don't like don't you?
On another note, has this thread gotten anybody unknown to the anime to give the show a shot?
On September 18 2012 12:10 Dark_Chill wrote: Okay, if this thread is to be believed (I didn't watch NGE but I love these discussions ) Shinji pretty much stays depressed and is constantly tortured by the situations he's in. Well, if he is like that, isn't he the same as the standard super main character, but from a different extreme? I just watched the Monster Hunter manga, and that MC is always freaking happy and eccentric. Is Shinji just the opposite of that? Also, I'd like to disagree with a few of the notions made about realism. It does not make a show, or art, or anything, magically more entertaining. If an anime were made about my life, you could say "wow, what a realistic character portrayal", but that doesn't mean it'll be good. If the characters in the hypothetical anime are boring or unlikable, the experience is made less enjoyable. Don't take this to mean that characters can't be sad or depressed. It's all about motivations and reasons when you get down to it. I saw a short movie in my Psych class about a woman who had been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She was leaving her husband and little girl behind. You can bet she was sad. However, she turned her experience into something that could help children (she went around to schools and explained what she was going through because of cigarettes). If you can sympathize with or admire a character's reasons for doing something, you can become attached to that character. So, here's the question NGE fans. Is Shinji a likable character? If not, that's okay, because there are other things that can make an anime good. I also don't see many people in the thread looking at the plot itself (people talked about the symbolism and messages, but not really looking at the plot). Was it enjoyable to sit through and keep you wanting more?
NGE really reminds of School Days. Both are viewed as being some sort of master piece and utterly hated. Both have main characters who say are completely unlikable, and they both seem to deal in going away from the standard mecha/harem plot.
I'm pretty sure anyone who says they like Shinji is just trolling, seeing as how he doesn't have any redeemable personality traits, period.
Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
Can't you just leave? Obviously you can't accept that other people can have different feelings about things than your own.
I like Shinji. I think he's an interesting character with some very complex issues different from pretty much any anime I've watched. Not everything in life is sunshine and rainbows.
Also, that quote just seems stupid. Anime is supposed to be about "making fun or gaining the sympathy of the audience"??? That pile of text is honestly not saying a damn thing other than "we should all be happy and healthy!!!"
Really, you just have to keep shitting on things you don't like don't you?
On another note, has this thread gotten anybody unknown to the anime give the show a shot?
1.)I'm not the one here telling other people to get out of the thread when they disagree with me. Why can't you just accept that I hate the TV series? Can you please stop with the ad hominem? It doesn't really do you any good. This isn't the "Evangelion Fan Club" thread. The opening posts even makes it clear,
This show is hit or miss with a lot of people, and the fact that the final episodes, manga and movies can be "2deep4u", will result in a lot of posters expressing their confusion, hatred, or general dislike of the series. That is to be expected.
2.) Yes, hes so interesting, just like the emo kid who sats in the back of class, and didn't socialize with anyone. Also, different=/=good (not that he actually is very different, for the most part).
3.) First off, and hopefully I'm point this out needlessly to you since its fairly obvious, but the quote is addressing the MESSAGE of Evangelion. What is the MESSAGE the show is trying to deliver to its audience? There are many different types of messages you can send with a work. One is to be fun, I don't really need to explain that. Another is gaining sympathy for the audience while telling a story. You could take example of the short movie about a cancer patient in Dark_Chill's post for this. I don't really need to explain this either, hopefully. Tomino is saying that the message delivered by Evangelion is counter-productive to society and individual development, and it is. While the other two offered types of messages are productive to society and its audience.
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
No.
The creators themselves stated that the show focused on the otaku culture and the phenomenon of social fear present among Japan's youth. If you ever watched the ending, or the way Shinji is portrayed, you'd understand that depression and teen angst are actually condemned by the show. The irony is that the very last episode ended with the very ideas you say they should have defended : cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive.
On the other hand, Gundam Wing is typically an empty anime made just for fanservice purposes so young boys can feel less shitty about their lives. And don't even get me started on worse examples like Love Hina... This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
On a side note, works of art don't have "messages". As Hitchcock said, "messages are for postmen". If you could reduce a song, a movie or a book to a single sentence, then what is the point of it in the first place?
On September 19 2012 10:21 Sentenal wrote: Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
No.
The creators themselves stated that the show focused on the otaku culture and the phenomenon of social fear present among Japan's youth. If you ever watched the ending, or the way Shinji is portrayed, you'd understand that depression and teen angst are actually condemned by the show. The irony is that the very last episode ended with the very ideas you say they should have defended : cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive.
On the other hand, Gundam Wing is typically an empty anime made just for fanservice purposes so young boys can feel less shitty about their lives. And don't even get me started on worse examples like Love Hina... This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
On a side note, works of art don't have "messages". As Hitchcock said, "messages are for postmen". If you could reduce a song, a movie or a book to a single sentence, then what is the point of it in the first place?
So, you are imagining that sort of meaning to the ending of Evangelion? Seems kinda different from what I remember in End of Evangelion, with everyone in the world being turned into tang by Albino Midgets (essentially, every dies), leaving only Asuka and Shinji alive, and then ends with Shinji waking up and strangling Asuka.
Additionally, to clarify as to who Tomino is, he was the one who created the orginal Mobile Suit Gundam, and many others in the series (such as happy shows like Zeta Gundam and Victory Gundam), but Gundam Wing was not done by him. Gundam Wing was done by Masashi Ikeda. Its also viewed upon poorly by most Gundam fans, myself included, so I dunno what point you are trying to make by talking about it.
This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
lol, people "threatening" Gainex, entertainment being likened to garbage. What a great thread this is.
Oh yeah, you couldn't possibly be comparing people who don't like Evangelion or don't appreciate it as much as you, pigs, are you? That would be very rude and against the nature of this topic.
On September 19 2012 10:21 Sentenal wrote: Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
No.
The creators themselves stated that the show focused on the otaku culture and the phenomenon of social fear present among Japan's youth. If you ever watched the ending, or the way Shinji is portrayed, you'd understand that depression and teen angst are actually condemned by the show. The irony is that the very last episode ended with the very ideas you say they should have defended : cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive.
On the other hand, Gundam Wing is typically an empty anime made just for fanservice purposes so young boys can feel less shitty about their lives. And don't even get me started on worse examples like Love Hina... This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
On a side note, works of art don't have "messages". As Hitchcock said, "messages are for postmen". If you could reduce a song, a movie or a book to a single sentence, then what is the point of it in the first place?
So, you are imagining that sort of meaning to the ending of Evangelion? Seems kinda different from what I remember in End of Evangelion, with everyone in the world being turned into tang by Albino Reis (essentially, every dies), leaving only Asuka and Shinji alive, and then ends with Shinji waking up and strangling Asuka.
Additionally, to clarify as to who Tomino is, he was the one who created the orginal Mobile Suit Gundam, and many others in the series (such as happy shows like Zeta Gundam and Victory Gundam), but Gundam Wing was not done by him. Gundam Wing was done by Masashi Ikeda. Its also viewed upon poorly by most Gundam fans, myself included, so I dunno what point you are trying to make by talking about it.
This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
lol, people "threatening" Gainex, entertainment being likened to garbage. What a great thread this is.
The "everyone turning to tang" is human instrumentality that shinji ends up stopping from happening, completing his char arc. Episodes 25 and 26 are a lot clearer with shinji's char arc and how he can't continue his angst and depression and cocooning himself from any interaction because he could be hurt, that humans are defined by their interactions and he needs other people regardless of whether they hurt him or not. Shinji is not supposed to start as a "likeable" char, all those unlikeable traits about him are condemned by the show, it's where the char ends up that is the important part. He's supposed to start unlikeable, but through his journey show that he is empathizable and worthy of redemption through what he learns, which leads him to stop instrumentality.
On September 19 2012 12:07 Sentenal wrote: So, you are imagining that sort of meaning to the ending of Evangelion? Seems kinda different from what I remember in End of Evangelion, with everyone in the world being turned into tang by Albino Reis (essentially, every dies), leaving only Asuka and Shinji alive, and then ends with Shinji waking up and strangling Asuka.
The post above clarified things nicely. Shinji was suppose to melt in the "soup of life", like everyone else. But the strenght of his will ultimately kept him alive as an individual. Also, the End of Evangelion is just the concrete illustration of episodes 24, 25 and 26 from the show (which you apparently haven't seen).
This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
lol, people "threatening" Gainex, entertainment being likened to garbage. What a great thread this is.
Oh yeah, you couldn't possibly be comparing people who don't like Evangelion or don't appreciate it as much as you, pigs, are you? That would be very rude and against the nature of this topic.
There were people who sent death threats to Gainax beacause they weren't satisfied with the ending of the show. They wanted ecchi and robots, and they got philosophy. I call these obsessed people "pigs", yes. And they liked Evangelion, they liked it so much it was like a drug to them, apparently.
Alright, so I just finished watching 1.11 and 2.22 and you guys weren't kidding when you said everything changes with 2.22. I still don't think the original Evangelion was amazing although it was a sort of masterpiece in the sense that it was a pivotal moment for the art form. I'm really liking how they decided to change the whole direction with Rebuild and I'm pretty excited to see what they'll do with 3.33. I'm not expecting anything utterly mindblowing though. The themes of Evangelion, although interesting, just turns out to feel more shallow as the years pass for me. It's a classic for sure, but it's not one of the few anime series that invokes sharp nostalgia and continuing appreciation.
On September 19 2012 10:21 Sentenal wrote: Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
No.
The creators themselves stated that the show focused on the otaku culture and the phenomenon of social fear present among Japan's youth. If you ever watched the ending, or the way Shinji is portrayed, you'd understand that depression and teen angst are actually condemned by the show. The irony is that the very last episode ended with the very ideas you say they should have defended : cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive.
On the other hand, Gundam Wing is typically an empty anime made just for fanservice purposes so young boys can feel less shitty about their lives. And don't even get me started on worse examples like Love Hina... This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
On a side note, works of art don't have "messages". As Hitchcock said, "messages are for postmen". If you could reduce a song, a movie or a book to a single sentence, then what is the point of it in the first place?
So, you are imagining that sort of meaning to the ending of Evangelion? Seems kinda different from what I remember in End of Evangelion, with everyone in the world being turned into tang by Albino Reis (essentially, every dies), leaving only Asuka and Shinji alive, and then ends with Shinji waking up and strangling Asuka.
Additionally, to clarify as to who Tomino is, he was the one who created the orginal Mobile Suit Gundam, and many others in the series (such as happy shows like Zeta Gundam and Victory Gundam), but Gundam Wing was not done by him. Gundam Wing was done by Masashi Ikeda. Its also viewed upon poorly by most Gundam fans, myself included, so I dunno what point you are trying to make by talking about it.
This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
lol, people "threatening" Gainex, entertainment being likened to garbage. What a great thread this is.
The "everyone turning to tang" is human instrumentality that shinji ends up stopping from happening, completing his char arc. Episodes 25 and 26 are a lot clearer with shinji's char arc and how he can't continue his angst and depression and cocooning himself from any interaction because he could be hurt, that humans are defined by their interactions and he needs other people regardless of whether they hurt him or not. Shinji is not supposed to start as a "likeable" char, all those unlikeable traits about him are condemned by the show, it's where the char ends up that is the important part. He's supposed to start unlikeable, but through his journey show that he is empathizable and worthy of redemption through what he learns, which leads him to stop instrumentality.
He ends up in a hellish word, right next to a girl, who he immediately strangles upon seeing. If it wasn't for End of Evangelion, I might buy your interpretation more, but EoE was supposed to be the "actual" ending. The last 2 episodes of the TV Series are so messed up you could interpret it in almost anyway you want (hence this entire discussion). EOE's events, however, have much less leeway. Instrumentality "stopped", but only after everyone was reduced to LCL. And technically, with the twisted logic of the show, being turned into LCL isn't technically death, so its still possible to interpret everyone as being alive, but come on, look at this:
The post above clarified things nicely. Shinji was suppose to melt in the "soup of life", like everyone else. But the strenght of his will ultimately kept him alive as an individual. Also, the End of Evangelion is just the concrete illustration of episodes 24, 25 and 26 from the show (which you apparently haven't seen).
I have seen it, and please don't make up shit about what I have and haven't seen.
So, according to how you interpret the ending, Shinji's strength of will keeps him alive as an individual, an individual who immediately strangles Asuka when he wakes up after the whole event? And thats supposed to be Shinji's realization of "cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive."? Its like coming to terms with being a psychopath, if you ask me.
@Sentenal You know shinji had been alone for quite some time after he rejected Instrumentality. Studies have shown that when you place a person in isolation for a long time they tend to go crazy
Prisoners who are isolated for prolonged periods of time have been known to experience "depression, despair, anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations, problems with impulse control, and/or an impaired ability to think, concentrate, or remember." (2) Studies have also shown that isolation can cause "impaired vision and hearing... tinnitus [(ringing in the ears)], weakening of the immune system, amenorrhea [(absence of menstrual periods in women)], premature menopause... and aggressive behavior in prisoners, volunteers and animals." (1)
Previously healthy prisoners have "develop[ed] clinical symptoms usually associated with psychosis or severe affective disorders" (2) including "all types of psychiatric morbidity." (4) Many have committed suicide.
Individuals do vary in how well they can deal with living in isolation, however. (4) For prisoners with pre-existing mental or emotional disorders, living without normal human interaction, physical and mental activity and stimulation can aggravate their symptoms to levels equivalent to torture. (2), (3) In one complaint filed against the Connecticut Department of Correction in August 2003, social isolation and sensory deprivation drove some prisoners to "lash out by swallowing razors, smashing their heads into walls or cutting their flesh." (3)
On September 19 2012 12:56 Quintum_ wrote: @Sentenal You know shinji had been alone for quite some time after he rejected Instrumentality. Studies have shown that when you place a person in isolation for a long time they tend to go crazy
Prisoners who are isolated for prolonged periods of time have been known to experience "depression, despair, anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations, problems with impulse control, and/or an impaired ability to think, concentrate, or remember." (2) Studies have also shown that isolation can cause "impaired vision and hearing... tinnitus [(ringing in the ears)], weakening of the immune system, amenorrhea [(absence of menstrual periods in women)], premature menopause... and aggressive behavior in prisoners, volunteers and animals." (1)
Previously healthy prisoners have "develop[ed] clinical symptoms usually associated with psychosis or severe affective disorders" (2) including "all types of psychiatric morbidity." (4) Many have committed suicide.
Individuals do vary in how well they can deal with living in isolation, however. (4) For prisoners with pre-existing mental or emotional disorders, living without normal human interaction, physical and mental activity and stimulation can aggravate their symptoms to levels equivalent to torture. (2), (3) In one complaint filed against the Connecticut Department of Correction in August 2003, social isolation and sensory deprivation drove some prisoners to "lash out by swallowing razors, smashing their heads into walls or cutting their flesh." (3)
I'll be honest, I don't remember the time frame between the end of Instrumentality and him deciding to strangle Asuka. I assumed it wasn't any time at all or a short amount of time, but assuming he was in isolation for a long time, its still the story ending with him going crazy, is it not?
One thing I've noticed about NGE is that it's easy to portray the show in a lot of different (perhaps misleading) ways if described in a manner that might be overly concise. Not to say these aren't legitimate perspectives, I don't see these posts (such as the first reply in the thread or the webcomic on page 3) as being based on inaccuracies, and offer fair critical responses in a show that has in the past been quite controversial. But no doubt it's best for one to see the show for themselves and form their own opinion and not go by the opinion of others.
Depending on what one plucks from the show it can be stupid/ridiculous/absurd, and of course jacked up. Or, like like me, mindblowingly awesome. I would never accuse anyone of having a "limited perspective" on the show, in fact I think it was the writer's (Hideaki Anno's) intention to have a final product that's both broad and conflicting, leaving little room for consensus with regard to interpretation. That has led to some people labeling the series as "pretentious," but I've always enjoyed it. Except for maybe the last 2 episodes; I enjoyed those at the time I first watched them but EoE is definitely miles, miles ahead of what those amounted to. Been a fan of the show since I was 14 (same as the pilots ).
Looking forward to the Rebuild movies yet to be released. And, some of you may chide me for saying this but I hope that someday the Live Action Evangelion project goes forward and is released in theatres. Been in "development hell" since '03, so almost ten years now but from what I gather in the tid-bits of news that come out every so often, there is some very persistent group that wants a live action Eva realized. If it happens to have the production quality of one of the Mortal Kombat movies, we can burn every trace of it's media and rip apart the memories from our brains.
On September 19 2012 12:56 Quintum_ wrote: @Sentenal You know shinji had been alone for quite some time after he rejected Instrumentality. Studies have shown that when you place a person in isolation for a long time they tend to go crazy
Prisoners who are isolated for prolonged periods of time have been known to experience "depression, despair, anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations, problems with impulse control, and/or an impaired ability to think, concentrate, or remember." (2) Studies have also shown that isolation can cause "impaired vision and hearing... tinnitus [(ringing in the ears)], weakening of the immune system, amenorrhea [(absence of menstrual periods in women)], premature menopause... and aggressive behavior in prisoners, volunteers and animals." (1)
Previously healthy prisoners have "develop[ed] clinical symptoms usually associated with psychosis or severe affective disorders" (2) including "all types of psychiatric morbidity." (4) Many have committed suicide.
Individuals do vary in how well they can deal with living in isolation, however. (4) For prisoners with pre-existing mental or emotional disorders, living without normal human interaction, physical and mental activity and stimulation can aggravate their symptoms to levels equivalent to torture. (2), (3) In one complaint filed against the Connecticut Department of Correction in August 2003, social isolation and sensory deprivation drove some prisoners to "lash out by swallowing razors, smashing their heads into walls or cutting their flesh." (3)
I'll be honest, I don't remember the time frame between the end of Instrumentality and him deciding to strangle Asuka. I assumed it wasn't any time at all or a short amount of time, but assuming he was in isolation for a long time, its still the story ending with him going crazy, is it not?
I dont think so, he did stop when he heard asuka's voice showing that he was not all the way gone, just pushed to the edge waiting for everyone to come back as long as it was implied that he was alone. I do agree that ending was a bit bleek, could of maybe shown a time lapse of more people coming back out of the LCL as they found themselves. Would of given the series a little more closer i think.
A lot of time had passed since Shinji rejected instrumentality.
Shinji had the time to create tombstones. The cross that was nailed to one had begun to rust from the nail. And he panicked when he saw a glimpse of Rei like the first episode, and the sudden appearance of Asuka.
He must have not understood that Asuka was actually there with him, which is why he strangled her instinctively, because he only calmed down and started to cry once Asuka touched his face like his mother did.
I read the Manga and watched End of Evangelion. Is the Manga true to the anime enough to where watching the anime is a waste of time? I loved the Manga and though End of Evangelion got too trippy at the end. Felt like an acid trip just watching it
On September 19 2012 10:21 Sentenal wrote: Message of the show?
Yoshiyuki Tomino, Creator of Mobile Suit Gundam: I was very upset when I saw Evangelion, because it was apparent to me that the people who made it weren't thinking at all about making fun for or gaining the sympathy of the audience. Instead they tried to convince the audience to admit that everybody is sick, practically in the middle of a nervous breakdown, all the time. I don't think you should show things like that to everybody. It's not entertainment for the masses--it's much more interested in admitting that we're all depressed nervous wrecks, I thought. It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone. I don't think that's a real work of art. When people see that, they begin to realize they are the same way. I think that we should try to show people how to live healthier, fuller lives, to foster their identity as a part of their community, and to encourage them to work happily until they die. I can't accept any work that doesn't say that.
No.
The creators themselves stated that the show focused on the otaku culture and the phenomenon of social fear present among Japan's youth. If you ever watched the ending, or the way Shinji is portrayed, you'd understand that depression and teen angst are actually condemned by the show. The irony is that the very last episode ended with the very ideas you say they should have defended : cheer up, life is difficult but life can be brilliant as long as you look straight up, building a cocoon to defend yourself is pointless and self-destructive.
On the other hand, Gundam Wing is typically an empty anime made just for fanservice purposes so young boys can feel less shitty about their lives. And don't even get me started on worse examples like Love Hina... This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
On a side note, works of art don't have "messages". As Hitchcock said, "messages are for postmen". If you could reduce a song, a movie or a book to a single sentence, then what is the point of it in the first place?
So, you are imagining that sort of meaning to the ending of Evangelion? Seems kinda different from what I remember in End of Evangelion, with everyone in the world being turned into tang by Albino Reis (essentially, every dies), leaving only Asuka and Shinji alive, and then ends with Shinji waking up and strangling Asuka.
Additionally, to clarify as to who Tomino is, he was the one who created the orginal Mobile Suit Gundam, and many others in the series (such as happy shows like Zeta Gundam and Victory Gundam), but Gundam Wing was not done by him. Gundam Wing was done by Masashi Ikeda. Its also viewed upon poorly by most Gundam fans, myself included, so I dunno what point you are trying to make by talking about it.
This is what led many people to threaten Gainax in in many ways : they wanted pure entertainment, just like pigs who'd become violent once you stop feeding them their daily garbage.
lol, people "threatening" Gainex, entertainment being likened to garbage. What a great thread this is.
The "everyone turning to tang" is human instrumentality that shinji ends up stopping from happening, completing his char arc. Episodes 25 and 26 are a lot clearer with shinji's char arc and how he can't continue his angst and depression and cocooning himself from any interaction because he could be hurt, that humans are defined by their interactions and he needs other people regardless of whether they hurt him or not. Shinji is not supposed to start as a "likeable" char, all those unlikeable traits about him are condemned by the show, it's where the char ends up that is the important part. He's supposed to start unlikeable, but through his journey show that he is empathizable and worthy of redemption through what he learns, which leads him to stop instrumentality.
He ends up in a hellish word, right next to a girl, who he immediately strangles upon seeing. If it wasn't for End of Evangelion, I might buy your interpretation more, but EoE was supposed to be the "actual" ending. The last 2 episodes of the TV Series are so messed up you could interpret it in almost anyway you want (hence this entire discussion). EOE's events, however, have much less leeway. Instrumentality "stopped", but only after everyone was reduced to LCL. And technically, with the twisted logic of the show, being turned into LCL isn't technically death, so its still possible to interpret everyone as being alive, but come on, look at this:
Shinji's stops intstrumentality and allows people to come back if they want to, though not everyone does right right away. Just because they are turned into lcl doesn't mean they're dead, even shinji turns into lcl during the series over two episodes and then comes back. The fact that asuka is there at all shows he stopped instrumentality. The fact that he strangles her is also important, it shows that shinji has developed his own will and force of character, and understands that all interactions, whether good or bad, are important. Why he strangled her has a few interpretations. Maybe it's becuase he didn't like her and didn't want to be melded with her(of all people to come back, why did it have to be her). Maybe it's because he didn't want to lose her(instrumentality destroys individuality), and felt abandoned by everyone when instrumentality happen. Maybe he was just crazy from instrumentality and thought it was the voices coming back to torment him more after he finished making his decision and was fed up with them. It certainly wasn't a nice thing to do, but it was important. The old shinji would not have done anything at all, it shows the new shinji has not only is done with his identity crisis, but how strongly he feels about his convictions.
Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
On September 20 2012 00:02 Fyrewolf wrote:Why he strangled her has a few interpretations. Maybe it's becuase he didn't like her and didn't want to be melded with her(of all people to come back, why did it have to be her). Maybe it's because he didn't want to lose her(instrumentality destroys individuality), and felt abandoned by everyone when instrumentality happen. Maybe he was just crazy from instrumentality and thought it was the voices coming back to torment him more after he finished making his decision and was fed up with them. It certainly wasn't a nice thing to do, but it was important. The old shinji would not have done anything at all, it shows the new shinji has not only is done with his identity crisis, but how strongly he feels about his convictions.
This is my interpretation: Asuka pretty much represents the reason he wished for everyone to disappear/die. His psychological downward spiral ends in the mental scene where he begs Asuka to help him understand her and show a little kindness, but she refuses him completely and proceeds to hurt him - hedgehogs dilemma at its worst - after which he strangles her.
I think Asuka reappearing just brought up all those overwhelming feelings again and in the situation he is in (everyone is pretty much dead, civilisation is gone) he might as well kill her (as he already wished for in his mind). He feels the pain he feared to much again, and response in the way he always did. What makes him snap out of it is the first sign of kindness from Asuka as she touches him. Realizing this is the pain he has chosen to endure over and over again, he starts crying.
Some more thoughts on Rebuild: I think its very important to take into account how the Third Impact changed everyone during the complementation of souls and after reading about the "true sequel" stuff concerning Rebuild, I'm mindblown. Watching the relationships between the main characters and how they changed in comparison to the original, its very much like everyone has learned something. They don't know it as they don't remember their "first run" but they handle their specific problem much better than before:
Rei understands (and enjoys) interaction with people and emotions better, she develops more of a personality. Asuka tries to be at least nicer ... although she still is pretty arrogant. I guess 3.0 will tell a lot more. And Shinji is mostly just more confident, as he fears less getting hurt by others. And I think another thing changed about him... he falls in love with Rei, not Asuka. I guess not searching praise from an abusive person is a step forward too.
Essentially the series becomes a tale about the refinement of the human soul through self-chosen and cyclical suffering. The title now seems a little less far fetched too.
This might be somewhat far fetched, but I believe there are are a handful of characters who "know" more about the greater plan, the reason for the repetitions and their role in this play. Even in the original series, they are the ones who aren't suprised by anything. Funnily enough, those are the ones seemingly without a trauma: Mari, Kaworu, Kaji, Yui and maybe Fuyutsuki.
For example, Mari suddenly becomes very interesting character to me: Before, I thought of her somewhat as a "movie gimmick": She suddenly appears to fight in an epic way and pretty much dies gladly in the process - but that seemed it. She always unbelievable confident and doesn't seem to be psychologically damaged. She talks about "using adults as the pawns for children", can use "beast mode" and the only thing she did which truely mattered (besides pleasing otakus) was making sure than Shinjis sees Rei being swallowed by the Angel.
Man, I'm typing way to much again. A lot of this is probably crap, but heck, I'm having so much fun thinking about all this. I guess NGE somewhat helps the process of refining the soul of the viewer - can't wait for 3.0 :D
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws. And it's not necessarily the case that he's psychotic or insane, it's not just the first person he sees or any girl he is strangling, but specifically asuka, who up until that point has caused him nothing but pain.
@Tabularasa
That's an interesting interpretation. I've always kind of leaned toward shinji not really liking asuka because she's never nice to him, but that's a far more detailed interpretation than the short list I made to provide examples. I kinda like that interpretation, it fits well with the characters personalities and the place in the story arc.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws.
If you want to argue that human beings being reduced to tang and are never shown to turn back is still being alive, feel free. Its an asinine argument, when its a state that's treated and portrayed no differently from death beyond a technicality, but whatever.
So the point is the anime ends with Shinji coming to terms with himself, and portrays this as him as a psychopath at the very end. Which goes back to the line that started this entire string of discussion:
It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone.
Doesn't sound like an anime that is productive or beneficial for the audience at all, to me.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws.
If you want to argue that human beings being reduced to tang and are never shown to turn back is still being alive, feel free. Its an asinine argument, when its a state that's treated and portrayed no differently from death beyond a technicality, but whatever.
So the point is the anime ends with Shinji coming to terms with himself, and portrays this as him as a psychopath at the very end. Which goes back to the line that started this entire string of discussion:
It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone.
Doesn't sound like an anime that is productive or beneficial for the audience at all, to me.
If you considering them losing their individuality as a form of death, that could be an interpretation, but simply saying the whole point of human instrumentality was to kill them and turn them into tang is the real asinine argument, it is treated and protrayed differently from death by seele and many characters in the show who choose to stay in it as enlightenment, not death, but then shinji chooses to keep his individuality because he personally feels losing it would be akin to death. And it's not necessarily the case that Shinji is psychotic or insane, it's not just the first person he sees or any girl he is strangling, but specifically asuka, who up until that point has caused him nothing but pain. Your arguments have been based on increasingly shallow interpretations that dismiss half the events that occur just to support your point. It's not a work that tells people it's okay to be depressed, quite the opposite. It doesn't say if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone, it says the opposite of that. It says that pain and depression are a part of life that you have to deal with, which has good and bad parts, it doesn't say that they're okay or that you should attack people you don't like.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws.
If you want to argue that human beings being reduced to tang and are never shown to turn back is still being alive, feel free. Its an asinine argument, when its a state that's treated and portrayed no differently from death beyond a technicality, but whatever.
So the point is the anime ends with Shinji coming to terms with himself, and portrays this as him as a psychopath at the very end. Which goes back to the line that started this entire string of discussion:
It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone.
Doesn't sound like an anime that is productive or beneficial for the audience at all, to me.
If you considering them losing their individuality as a form of death, that could be an interpretation, but simply saying the whole point of human instrumentality was to kill them and turn them into tang is the real asinine argument, it is treated and protrayed differently from death by seele and many characters in the show who choose to stay in it, but then shinji chooses to keep his individuality because he personally feels losing it would be akin to death. And it's not necessarily the case that Shinji is psychotic or insane, it's not just the first person he sees or any girl he is strangling, but specifically asuka, who up until that point has caused him nothing but pain. Your arguments have been based on increasingly shallow interpretations that dismiss half the events that occur just to support your point. It's not a work that tells people it's okay to be depressed, quite the opposite. It doesn't say if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone, it says the opposite of that. It says that pain and depression are a part of life, which has good and bad parts, that you have to deal with, it doesn't say that they're okay or that you should attack people you don't like.
LOL So, waking up and strangling another person first thing in the morning isn't psychotic behavior? It doesn't matter if she is a bitch or not (she is, don't get me wrong), but that doesn't make him any less insane.
Also amused that your entire post is just taking what I wrote, and just changed words around, as if that somehow makes you more right or something. Its like me saying something like "Your arguments have been based on increasingly pretentious interpretations that dismiss what actually occurs just to support your point." Of course, rephrasing something like this is doesn't actually prove anything or make any point, and is just trying to tell the other person "fuck you stop making points", which isn't constructive at all in a discussion. Evangelion ends (according to you) with Shinji accepting who is he, and coming to terms with himself. And then he wakes up, and immediately strangles the first person he sees. Pain and depression are part of life, just accept that and who you are, even if "who you are" is a person who snaps and strangles people you don't like while they are sleeping. And according to you, this is not psychotic behavior. lol
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws.
If you want to argue that human beings being reduced to tang and are never shown to turn back is still being alive, feel free. Its an asinine argument, when its a state that's treated and portrayed no differently from death beyond a technicality, but whatever.
So the point is the anime ends with Shinji coming to terms with himself, and portrays this as him as a psychopath at the very end. Which goes back to the line that started this entire string of discussion:
It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone.
Doesn't sound like an anime that is productive or beneficial for the audience at all, to me.
If you considering them losing their individuality as a form of death, that could be an interpretation, but simply saying the whole point of human instrumentality was to kill them and turn them into tang is the real asinine argument, it is treated and protrayed differently from death by seele and many characters in the show who choose to stay in it, but then shinji chooses to keep his individuality because he personally feels losing it would be akin to death. And it's not necessarily the case that Shinji is psychotic or insane, it's not just the first person he sees or any girl he is strangling, but specifically asuka, who up until that point has caused him nothing but pain. Your arguments have been based on increasingly shallow interpretations that dismiss half the events that occur just to support your point. It's not a work that tells people it's okay to be depressed, quite the opposite. It doesn't say if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone, it says the opposite of that. It says that pain and depression are a part of life, which has good and bad parts, that you have to deal with, it doesn't say that they're okay or that you should attack people you don't like.
LOL So, waking up and strangling another person first thing in the morning isn't psychotic behavior? It doesn't matter if she is a bitch or not (she is, don't get me wrong), but that doesn't make him any less insane.
Also amused that your entire post is just taking what I wrote, and just changed words around, as if that somehow makes you more right or something. Its like me saying something like "Your arguments have been based on increasingly pretentious interpretations that dismiss what actually occurs just to support your point." Of course, rephrasing something like this is doesn't actually prove anything or make any point, and is just trying to tell the other person "fuck you stop making points", which isn't constructive at all in a discussion. Evangelion ends (according to you) with Shinji accepting who is he, and coming to terms with himself. And then he wakes up, and immediately strangles the first person he sees. Pain and depression are part of life, just accept that and who you are, even if "who you are" is a person who snaps and strangles people you don't like while they are sleeping. And according to you, this is not psychotic behavior. lol
I should have just listened to BrTarolg and not fed the troll. I'm just going to ignore you now just like you have purposefully ignored and willfuly misinterpreted and twisted all the points that anyone has made to suit your ends.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
They aren't dead. The Human Instrumentality Project isn't about murdering everyone on the planet, that makes no sense. They all become LCL because human instrumentality is forcing everyone's minds and bodies to become one with each other. The LCL itself is (somehow) alive, with every human's mind merged into one mind. That doesn't mean that everyone is dead. And of course Shinji has a few screws loose, that's kind of the point. Forcing ordinary people into extraordinary situations is enough to give anyone a few loose screws.
If you want to argue that human beings being reduced to tang and are never shown to turn back is still being alive, feel free. Its an asinine argument, when its a state that's treated and portrayed no differently from death beyond a technicality, but whatever.
So the point is the anime ends with Shinji coming to terms with himself, and portrays this as him as a psychopath at the very end. Which goes back to the line that started this entire string of discussion:
It was a work that told people it was okay to be depressed, and it accepted the psychological state that said if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone.
Doesn't sound like an anime that is productive or beneficial for the audience at all, to me.
If you considering them losing their individuality as a form of death, that could be an interpretation, but simply saying the whole point of human instrumentality was to kill them and turn them into tang is the real asinine argument, it is treated and protrayed differently from death by seele and many characters in the show who choose to stay in it, but then shinji chooses to keep his individuality because he personally feels losing it would be akin to death. And it's not necessarily the case that Shinji is psychotic or insane, it's not just the first person he sees or any girl he is strangling, but specifically asuka, who up until that point has caused him nothing but pain. Your arguments have been based on increasingly shallow interpretations that dismiss half the events that occur just to support your point. It's not a work that tells people it's okay to be depressed, quite the opposite. It doesn't say if you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to just pick up a gun and attack someone, it says the opposite of that. It says that pain and depression are a part of life, which has good and bad parts, that you have to deal with, it doesn't say that they're okay or that you should attack people you don't like.
LOL So, waking up and strangling another person first thing in the morning isn't psychotic behavior? It doesn't matter if she is a bitch or not (she is, don't get me wrong), but that doesn't make him any less insane.
Also amused that your entire post is just taking what I wrote, and just changed words around, as if that somehow makes you more right or something. Its like me saying something like "Your arguments have been based on increasingly pretentious interpretations that dismiss what actually occurs just to support your point." Of course, rephrasing something like this is doesn't actually prove anything or make any point, and is just trying to tell the other person "fuck you stop making points", which isn't constructive at all in a discussion. Evangelion ends (according to you) with Shinji accepting who is he, and coming to terms with himself. And then he wakes up, and immediately strangles the first person he sees. Pain and depression are part of life, just accept that and who you are, even if "who you are" is a person who snaps and strangles people you don't like while they are sleeping. And according to you, this is not psychotic behavior. lol
I should have just listened to BrTarolg and not fed the troll. I'm just going to ignore you now just like you have purposefully ignored and willfuly misinterpreted and twisted all the points that anyone has made to suit your ends.
"I can't refute his point that strangling other people isn't psychotic, he must be trolling!!!"
It's ambiguous whether or not Shinji is mentally stable at the end of the movie, considering the events of the movie, how long he was isolated, the instant reaction to strangle Asuka, and the way the movie cuts off almost immediate afterwards.
However the fact that Shinji did stop and started crying into Asuka's breasts once he realizes that she's there hints that he has regained his mental stability.
Asuka, after touching his face (perhaps knowing how his mother did during instrumentality?) to show her soft feelings for him (it's actually been months and perhaps even years since this happened from the original episodes to the conclusion), comments as well on the situation:
Like I said earlier, Shinji does stop strangling her, which could be a sign that he hasn't completely lost his mind. But the fact that the situation even existed is proof enough that the guy is crazy. Its just, there are different levels of how "sick" a person can be, mentally.
On September 20 2012 07:15 Sentenal wrote: Like I said earlier, Shinji does stop strangling her, which could be a sign that he hasn't completely lost his mind. But the fact that the situation even existed is proof enough that the guy is crazy. Its just, there are different levels of how "sick" a person can be, mentally.
Well the news blows it out of perportion with just how "sick" some people are...
I'm personally attracted to the phsycho-broken like Asuka's personality... probably makes me sick in the head some way but oh well.
Shinji is a coward who is forced to do extraordinary things outside his element, and had to witness death, destruction and insanity while he's only a teenage looking for father's approval. Being forced into those situations would make anyone sick after a prolonged peroid of time.
The last part of the show really stuck with me for a long time, simply because of how depressing it was. It seemed to me that Shinji, for whatever reason, was granted the power of creating the world exactly as he wanted - humans won, they had defeated the angels and the Human project had worked, except it was Shinji, and not one of the Seele members, who controlled it.
Problem is, Shinji is a messed up child afraid of everything he desires. He wants his father to love him, while hating his father and everything he has done. He loves Asuka as much as he is obsessed with her, despite hoe terribly she treats him - he is dependant on her, and the attention she gives him, but hates her for the power she, as a girl, has over him. Throughout the show he is subservient to women, trying his best to placate and please them in any and every situation, despite this being impossible, probably because his mother was the only person who really showed him unrequited kindness and love. Rei is a distant love, a person he idolises and wants to be near, yet she is completely uninterested, distant and removed from any emotions or ties to him, despite him wanting her both sexually and as a friend - her lack of affection, emotion or even attention means she cannot be the one to give him the love he craves.
Now, look at the ending. Next to him is Asuka, because he needs, craves some kind of attention, but he hates the dependancy he has on her. She causes emotions to rise in him that he cannot control or understand - despite his age he is emotionally unable to process puberty and the sexual feelings Asuka causes in him, and hates her whilst being dependant on her - as a woman, he craves the attention she could give him like his mother once did, but he cannot process the fact that he is growing into a man, with sexual urges, and the feelings women give him create a feeling of self-loathing despite the need he still has for a female companion to love and nurture him. This is why he attacks her, this is why he tries to kill her. But his disgust in himself and his weakness in needing human contact, regardless of who it is from and what that human contact might be, causes him to stop strangling her. This is why Asuka, or rather the part of his mind that she represents, is disgusted. It isn't really Asuka there, rather his self-loathing and lust for women whilst needing their affection embodied in the object of his hatred and desire. Shinji wants love as a child from his mother and as a man from his wife, but he cannot separate the two in himself and hates himself for it.
The reason Asuka called Shinji disgusting as the last line was because once they all turned into LCL they melded, and a consequence of melding is sharing thoughts. Asuka found out what shinji did in this scene:
Now couple that with this quote from Miyamura:
"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.'"[1]
On September 20 2012 07:48 Gono wrote: The reason Asuka called Shinji disgusting as the last line was because once they all turned into LCL they melded, and a consequence of melding is sharing thoughts. Asuka found out what shinji did in this scene:
"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.'"[1]
And there you have it.
To me, it felt like Anno's response was.. a bit of disappointment, that the actress didn't really see a bigger picture apart from the inherent disgust that someone... like Asuka would feel if she realized that wasn't Elmer's glue. >_>
I myself am on more of the side of Tiffany Grant's suggestion that it might've been unrelated (I think she said morning sickness?) or something else, though that might just be me overthinking things and hoping desperately for some sort of deeper message.
Regardless, I watched EoE when I was quite young and the whole series.. both the manga and the anime until Rebuild probably ranks as some of the most apocalyptic, painful and depressing things I've ever watched/read. Incredibly brutal but brilliant. I'm a sucker for 'weird' things and Evangelion was great for that.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
You didn't understand the Instrumentality Project.
The Evas fight with AT-fields. Absolute Terror fields. An the AT-field is a physical manifestation of the ego; Evas fight with their ego, rejecting the enemy, in a way. Only by piercing that barrier can you also reach an Angel's heart. It is stated in the show that every human being has an AT-field, which is what defines his individual conscience. However, ours is weaker, not a physical manifestation but barely a thin thread that keeps us apart.
The Instrumentality project aims to break all AT-fields so that humans, weak and miserable creatures (here is the Evangelic and pascalian tradition), can once again be united in the "soup of life". No one will ever suffer or feel lonely again, everyone will merge into one being, in a common epiphany.
However, Shinji, finally believing that life as it is is worth living, refuses to merge with everyone else, and thus saves mankind in its current form. People are not dead, they are simply all part of the sea of life. And thanks to Shinji, they can come back. But the boy is not aware of that, and when Asuka resurfaces, he simply freaks out. He's not insane, he simply freaks out after spending too much time alone.
You can say that it's a pessimistic ending, but Shinji is the only human being who defended his individuality. But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
On September 20 2012 04:41 Sentenal wrote: Are you guys trying to tell me that Shinji wasn't insane at the very end of EoE, and that strangling a girl when you first wake up who was laying right next to you is normal behavior? Maybe "normal" for someone who has lost their mind, but that is still psychotic behavior. He stops, but that doesn't erase the fact that the kid had more than a few screws loose at the ending, which means that the final result of EoE had Shinji "accepting who he is" and tryed to murder the first person he encounters. Was he driven insane by the time he apparently spent by himself? Maybe, but that still ends with the kid going insane, and doesn't change my point.
And unless more people were shown coming out of the LCL, I can write them off as dead. Are they technically dead? Not techncially, but saying "well, maybe they could come back" is pointless, since we aren't shown anyone else coming back, save Asuka, which means everyone else is still tang, and still for all intents and purposes, dead.
You didn't understand the Instrumentality Project.
The Evas fight with AT-fields. Absolute Terror fields. An the AT-field is a physical manifestation of the ego; Evas fight with their ego, rejecting the enemy, in a way. Only by piercing that barrier can you also reach an Angel's heart. It is stated in the show that every human being has an AT-field, which is what defines his individual conscience. However, ours is weaker, not a physical manifestation but barely a thin thread that keeps us apart.
The Instrumentality project aims to break all AT-fields so that humans, weak and miserable creatures (here is the Evangelic and pascalian tradition), can once again be united in the "soup of life". No one will ever suffer or feel lonely again, everyone will merge into one being, in a common epiphany.
However, Shinji, finally believing that life as it is is worth living, refuses to merge with everyone else, and thus saves mankind in its current form. People are not dead, they are simply all part of the sea of life. And thanks to Shinji, they can come back. But the boy is not aware of that, and when Asuka resurfaces, he simply freaks out. He's not insane, he simply freaks out after spending too much time alone.
You can say that it's a pessimistic ending, but Shinji is the only human being who defended his individuality. But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
But sure, it's much easier to have a happy ending like Love Hina or even Twilight. Naruto the super hero kills the villains and they lived happily ever after... doesn't teach you a whole lot about life.
??? They're still alive, they're just one being inside the sea of LCL. And anyone can come back, as long as they are strong enough to recognize the image of him/herself, so long as the Earth, the Sun and the Moon are still existing.
On September 20 2012 11:23 Sentenal wrote: I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
On September 20 2012 11:23 Sentenal wrote: I did understand it. Except I don't define the state of being "alive" as the state of "being turned into tang". As I've said, time and time again (which apparently must be hard for you people to understand), technically, everyone is alive. But being turned into LCL is a state no better than death, so as far as I'm concerned, they are dead. No one other than Shinij and Asuka are shown coming back. So again, everyone remains in that state of "death" at the end. I don't see why you people are getting caught up on this technicality anyway, since its irrelevant to what started this whole thing.
Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
Well we can be technical. They arent alive by the defination of the sense. They are very dead. They spiritually exist still in a way but would you call a ghost alive? Dont think so. It is stated that they could come back alive from being LCL. Dont really know how there is a augment here....
All the serious stuff aside i do like how Sentenal has coined Instrumentality as being tang'd. Having all this deep eva talk and comparing it to tang just is so funny to me. Or at least i think it was Sentenal xp.
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami.
Strawman. I didn't say its an atypical reaction to "freak out". I said its atypical to freak out and (this is the important part) try to murder Asuka. This is what makes him a psychopath. Not the "freak out" part, but the "murder Asuka" part.
He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
He didn't kill her, but he wanted to. You can tell he wanted to kill her because he was strangling her. Normally when you crawl on top of someone else, cup your hands around their throat, squeeze really hard to cut off their wind pipe (which is clearly what he was doing), you are trying to kill the person.
If he actually thought it was a hallucination, then he wouldn't have tried to murder her, since you can't kill hallucinations. He would have to be mentally retarded to think you can kill something you "know" is in your imagination by strangling it.
I won't go into what the LCL could be, but you'll find in most religions or spiritual currents the idea to be united "together as one" as an ideal. But you don't seem to be able to see through death/life duality.
Being turned into a liquid and mixed with everyone else in the Earth seems kinda different from how I understand the concept of after-life in most major religions.
And if Asuka can come back, then anyone can come back. So everyone is, in fact, very much alive.
They can, but they don't. Anyway, the question of if they do or don't doesn't matter to me, and its a rather pointless argument based only on speculation. The ability to come back or not is irrelevant that the state of being LCL is a fate not much different from death. They are "alive*". But that's about all you can say about them.
On September 20 2012 12:18 Quintum_ wrote: All the serious stuff aside i do like how Sentenal has coined Instrumentality as being tang'd. Having all this deep eva talk and comparing it to tang just is so funny to me. Or at least i think it was Sentenal xp.
As much as I'd like to take credit, I wasn't the one who originally came up with that idea, lol
On September 20 2012 12:08 Gamegene wrote: can we call shinji dead when he was assimilated into unit 01? (he was tang'd in the entry plug)
We can call him "dead", which was the general reaction of people at NERV when it happened.
On September 20 2012 12:25 MajuGarzett wrote: Where does the "neon genesis" part of the name come from?
The answer to most questions like that, when it comes to Evangelion, is "because it sounds complicated" or "because it sounds cool".
It always seems like i picking on you Sentenal, i dont mean to though xp
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
On September 20 2012 12:25 MajuGarzett wrote: Where does the "neon genesis" part of the name come from?
The answer to most questions like that, when it comes to Evangelion, is "because it sounds complicated" or "because it sounds cool".
It always seems like i picking on you Sentenal, i dont mean to though xp
The original title for Evangelion was 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン (Shin Seiki Evangelion)
or
"New Century Evangelion"
although keeping in mind that "Evangelion" is Greek meaning "Gospel" the actual title is
"New Century Gospel"
or
"Gospel of the New Century"
"Seiki" however does not translate to "Genesis", which is the related "Sooseiki".
When time came to bring Evangelion to the western world, Anno chose to name it
"Neon Genesis Evangelion"
which is entirely greek, meaning
"New Genesis Gospel"
Genesis means creation, origin, birth, etc. We use it enough in our language to know what it means. You could say that it means
"Gospel of the New Genesis"
"Shin Seiki Evangelion" and "Neon Genesis Evangelion" differ in one word, Century, and Genesis. One could say that one is referring to a new era, while the other is referring to a rebirth of sorts. Whatever the case, the Western version of the title has a slightly greater degree of religious unerpinning to it.
However
Lol, i forgot about that. You have to agree though that Neon Genesis Evangelion rolls off the tongue so much better then Gospel of the New Genesis. And its not like he pulled random words that sounds complicated, they still tie in somewhat into the Japanese title, slight change.
I find it funny that Sent and that other TLADT guy have expressed that they dislike the series, yet here we are a week later and they're still posting in a thread dedicated to a topic they hate.
People, stop feeding the trolls. The only reason someone would hang around in a discussion about a topic they dislike is to troll the people that like said topic.
I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
You realize that OP, who clearly is anything but a hater, has violated that rule the most in this thread, right?
God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami.
Strawman. I didn't say its an atypical reaction to "freak out". I said its atypical to freak out and (this is the important part) try to murder Asuka. This is what makes him a psychopath. Not the "freak out" part, but the "murder Asuka" part.
Strawman. He didn't say that freaking out excluded murdering Asuka. Given the magnitude of the fucked up things he's seen and was put through, a freak-out reaction from that will be a lot more intense and diverse than a normal everyday freakout. It is undeniable that people have killed other people for less.
He didn't murder Asuka, nor did he want to. He probably thought it was an hallucination of some sort, reaction nervously to one more weird event. But he let go as he realized it was real, and as he could calm down.
He didn't kill her, but he wanted to. You can tell he wanted to kill her because he was strangling her. Normally when you crawl on top of someone else, cup your hands around their throat, squeeze really hard to cut off their wind pipe (which is clearly what he was doing), you are trying to kill the person.
If he actually thought it was a hallucination, then he wouldn't have tried to murder her, since you can't kill hallucinations. He would have to be mentally retarded to think you can kill something you "know" is in your imagination by strangling it.
Because when you're having hallucinations, you're always thinking so rationally and clearly, right?
All sarcasm aside, the final incident gave off that groggy feeling as though you just woke up from a dream, and you're still not entirely sure wtf is happening. That hallucination theory is close to the mark, but given the inward-looking and dream-like way the previous scenes played out, it made me think that this was a case of Shinji waking up, but still retaining the irrational and subconscious thought processes of his dream state, thus trying to kill Asuka.
TBH I don't really find the last scene that interesting anyway. What Shinji did, how he came to that decision and Yui's original intent are much more interesting to me.
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I find it funny that Sent and that other TLADT guy have expressed that they dislike the series, yet here we are a week later and they're still posting in a thread dedicated to a topic they hate.
People, stop feeding the trolls. The only reason someone would hang around in a discussion about a topic they dislike is to troll the people that like said topic.
I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
Allow me to point out a few places you didn't read in the OP.
Thread Rules: READ BEFORE POSTING This thread is a place to celebrate, discuss, and even argue about the show, it's characters, and your interpretation of the above. [...] Funny picture? Got an opinion? Share it! [...] This show is hit or miss with a lot of people, and the fact that the final episodes, manga and movies can be "2deep4u", will result in a lot of posters expressing their confusion, hatred, or general dislike of the series. That is to be expected.
So, now that I've helped you read the READ BEFORE POSTING part, you can see that arguing about Evangelion, expressing your dislike for Evangelion, and posting funny pictures about Evangelion are allowed in this thread. However, I'm not sure if "crying about other people not liking your favorite cartoon" is allowed by the rules...
Strawman. He didn't say that freaking out excluded murdering Asuka. Given the magnitude of the fucked up things he's seen and was put through, a freak-out reaction from that will be a lot more intense and diverse than a normal everyday freakout. It is undeniable that people have killed other people for less.
Either you don't know what a "Strawman" argument is, or you didn't read. But allow me to help you. Here is what I said: Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out. Here is what he said: God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. As you can see, after I say that a freak out reaction of "MURDER" is insane, he sarcastically remarks "yeah, freaking out is such an atypical reaction!!!" It is pretty straight-forward from this point of why its a strawman.
It is undeniable that people have killed other people for less, I agree. Those people who have, however, are batshit insane psychopaths. Because normal, sane people, don't react to surprising things with "I GOTTA CHOKE A BITCH".
Because when you're having hallucinations, you're always thinking so rationally and clearly, right?
If someone KNOWS its a hallucination, like what he said, then you KNOW its not real, since the very DEFINITION of the word says its something that isn't real. Knowingly attacking something that you already know isn't real is something that crazy or retarded people do. Which I guess supports what I've been saying.
All sarcasm aside, the final incident gave off that groggy feeling as though you just woke up from a dream, and you're still not entirely sure wtf is happening. That hallucination theory is close to the mark, but given the inward-looking and dream-like way the previous scenes played out, it made me think that this was a case of Shinji waking up, but still retaining the irrational and subconscious thought processes of his dream state, thus trying to kill Asuka.
Except that apparently a long time had passed since those previous, inward looking scenes. So if we are to believe you, he kept his batshit insane murderous thought process from the time Instrumentality Ended (where he accepted who he was), all the way up to him eventually attacking another person at the very end of the movie (which was a good bit of time). Please correct me if I'm not understanding you correctly.
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
You realize that OP, who clearly is anything but a hater, has violated that rule the most in this thread, right?
Yep, and I'd report his post too if I could be bothered.
Since this thread is 20 pages long and several mods have posted in it, I assume nobody has been warned or tempbanned because either I was mistaken and posting just an image is not against the rules, or mods don't give a shit.
Either way, I suggest you ignore the hater trolls, because if they're still here after 20 pages in and they clearly dislike Evangelion, they're probably not here to engage you in meaningful discussion.
It's been quite a while since I watched this series. Probably 7 years or so now. I remember I watched it with my cousin, and I loved the descent into madness that is this show. The low budget part is interesting, I didn't realize it and I didn't realize that was why it ended so weird. I should try watching the reboot.
Was a good....but incredibly weird show from my memory.
So, since there is a dedicated thread on Eva, I'm interested in knowing everyone's feelings here about Mari (purple hair girl) from Evangelion 2.0. Having seen the original series/movies, she just seems sort of out of place. What possible reason would there be for adding her in and what do you think this will do to the story/drama?
So, since there is a dedicated thread on Eva, I'm interested in knowing everyone's feelings here about Mari (purple hair girl) from Evangelion 2.0. Having seen the original series/movies, she just seems sort of out of place. What possible reason would there be for adding her in and what do you think this will do to the story/drama?
Im pretty sure shes Asukas half sister , since she was able to pilot Unit 2. When you make Asuka pilot the 13th Angel instead of Toji , and have the whole Tohi storyline scrapped (which kind of made sense since it dident really went anywhere in the series) you got to have someone else in Unit 2 in the Zeruel fight. im kinda curious how it will turn out
I'm going to quote myself from a few pages before, regarding Mari:
On September 20 2012 05:07 Tabularasa wrote: This might be somewhat far fetched, but I believe there are are a handful of characters who "know" more about the greater plan, the reason for the repetitions and their role in this play. Even in the original series, they are the ones who aren't suprised by anything. Funnily enough, those are the ones seemingly without a trauma: Mari, Kaworu, Kaji, Yui and maybe Fuyutsuki.
For example, Mari suddenly becomes very interesting character to me: Before, I thought of her somewhat as a "movie gimmick": She suddenly appears to fight in an epic way and pretty much dies gladly in the process - but that seemed it. She always unbelievable confident and doesn't seem to be psychologically damaged. She talks about "using adults as the pawns for children", can use "beast mode" and the only thing she did which truely mattered (besides pleasing otakus) was making sure than Shinjis sees Rei being swallowed by the Angel.
@Tabularasa I see your point Tabula, but having seen the original series, it feels like Mari is a character that really doesn't "fit". Her attitude and way of acting just doesn't follow the whole Evangelion thing. Maybe more information in upcoming movies will smooth things out. Time will tell, I suppose. @Irratonalys I always thought the Toji story sort of made a connection between the school life and the Eva life, allowing people to see the main characters lives vs normal people's lives in a comparison-like way. But I do think it was a bit "out of place" too. I dunno, maybe it works out better like this.
KK. I've read through some of this thread and have become very confused. I remember Evangelion ending with Shinji being given the option to remake the world in his image, or h/e he wanted to, and instead decided to choke Asuka and thats how I remember the thing ending.
Made very little sense to me (and to my mate), There was a lead up to Shinji having the opportunity to be this amazing hero, and f^&%ing it up.
Now... I think that was episode 26 right? So if I really want to finish the series, I should watch End of Evangelion and then that episode makes more sense?
I know, rewatched that part just a few days ago. Doesn't really fit with my idea of him being a "knowing" character, but I guess knowing the greater process he is part in, doesn't mean necessarily that he knows every detail of how its gonna happen. I'd say its like knowing the point of a story without having read it in detail. Having "faith" in why things happend the way they do and how its gonna ultimately end.
On the otherhand, he said to Shinji when he first met him "You should know your role in this better". Of course that could just be about him being the most special of the children, but in my theory Kaworu actually talks about him being the central catalyst in the whole process (in each repitition).
So I just finished watching the anime series (was on episode 19 when thread started) and I gotta say that those last 2 episodes really turned me off. It just completely jumped off the rails for what was the good episodes 1-24. There was no story continuation and I think it would have been better ending the series without those episodes. However, because I liked the first 24 episodes quite a bit, should I watch the movie "The end of evangelion"? Or is it similar to the last two episodes where it goes deep into psychoanalysis instead of story?
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I find it funny that Sent and that other TLADT guy have expressed that they dislike the series, yet here we are a week later and they're still posting in a thread dedicated to a topic they hate.
People, stop feeding the trolls. The only reason someone would hang around in a discussion about a topic they dislike is to troll the people that like said topic.
I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
Allow me to point out a few places you didn't read in the OP.
Thread Rules: READ BEFORE POSTING This thread is a place to celebrate, discuss, and even argue about the show, it's characters, and your interpretation of the above. [...] Funny picture? Got an opinion? Share it! [...] This show is hit or miss with a lot of people, and the fact that the final episodes, manga and movies can be "2deep4u", will result in a lot of posters expressing their confusion, hatred, or general dislike of the series. That is to be expected.
So, now that I've helped you read the READ BEFORE POSTING part, you can see that arguing about Evangelion, expressing your dislike for Evangelion, and posting funny pictures about Evangelion are allowed in this thread. However, I'm not sure if "crying about other people not liking your favorite cartoon" is allowed by the rules...
Strawman. He didn't say that freaking out excluded murdering Asuka. Given the magnitude of the fucked up things he's seen and was put through, a freak-out reaction from that will be a lot more intense and diverse than a normal everyday freakout. It is undeniable that people have killed other people for less.
Either you don't know what a "Strawman" argument is, or you didn't read. But allow me to help you. Here is what I said: Also, he is insane. If your "freak out" reaction to what happened there at the end is "I MUST MURDER THIS PERSON", then that means you are a psychopath. No sane person would react that way after freaking out. Here is what he said: God, it's true that it's such an atypical reaction to freak out after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami. As you can see, after I say that a freak out reaction of "MURDER" is insane, he sarcastically remarks "yeah, freaking out is such an atypical reaction!!!" It is pretty straight-forward from this point of why its a strawman.
It is undeniable that people have killed other people for less, I agree. Those people who have, however, are batshit insane psychopaths. Because normal, sane people, don't react to surprising things with "I GOTTA CHOKE A BITCH".
Because when you're having hallucinations, you're always thinking so rationally and clearly, right?
If someone KNOWS its a hallucination, like what he said, then you KNOW its not real, since the very DEFINITION of the word says its something that isn't real. Knowingly attacking something that you already know isn't real is something that crazy or retarded people do. Which I guess supports what I've been saying.
All sarcasm aside, the final incident gave off that groggy feeling as though you just woke up from a dream, and you're still not entirely sure wtf is happening. That hallucination theory is close to the mark, but given the inward-looking and dream-like way the previous scenes played out, it made me think that this was a case of Shinji waking up, but still retaining the irrational and subconscious thought processes of his dream state, thus trying to kill Asuka.
Except that apparently a long time had passed since those previous, inward looking scenes. So if we are to believe you, he kept his batshit insane murderous thought process from the time Instrumentality Ended (where he accepted who he was), all the way up to him eventually attacking another person at the very end of the movie (which was a good bit of time). Please correct me if I'm not understanding you correctly.
No no, let me help you instead. What you did in constructing your strawman was to ignore the part of the post you quoted yourself - "after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami.", and responding instead to a cut-down version of the post which completely changes its original intent. Obviously the whole point of other poster was saying that a freak-out will be a lot more extreme and possibly murderous circumstantial to the horribly fucked-up conditions of the world and the traumatic effect it had on Shinji, which you completely ignored and substituted your own interpretation of an "everyday freakout which does not include an urge to kill" to reply to.
His response was no strawman at all, as it directly responded to your point of "only insane people will kill when freaking out" by proposing the qualifier "only insane people and people who have been through extreme duress will kill when freaking out" as a retort.
I again disagree with your proposition that only insane people will kill others. A great deal of literature in the world deals with the issue of what normal, sane people are pushed to do when confromted by extraordinary circumstance. Are you going to dismiss pretty much every Shakespearean tragedy because since the protagonists kill people, they're obviously batshit insane?
If you are correct in saying that a long time has passed between Shinji materialising on the beach and Asuka materialising on the beach, then my idea falls flat on its face. To me it seemed like the beach scene immediately follows the one between nekkid Rei and Shinji, and the dialogue with Yui, which is where he finally accepts his desire to live. I assumed that immediately after that he allowed people to have individual form again through Eva magic he materialises on the beach. I could be totally wrong though, and it's been a while since I've watched the film.
Also, just a recommendation - posting a picture of a strawman as a response, and then beginning another retort by implicitly pointing out "Strawman." as your introductory sentence is an inelegant way to argue. It gives off the impression that you've just learnt about the various logical fallacies and couldn't resist demonstrating it to the world in every situation to which might vaguely apply. Perhaps you'll respond to this post with a picture of an ad hominem?
No no, let me help you instead. What you did in constructing your strawman was to ignore the part of the post you quoted yourself - "after seeing the face of humanity change completely under the eyes of a giant bleeding Rey Ayanami.", and responding instead to a cut-down version of the post which completely changes its original intent. Obviously the whole point of other poster was saying that a freak-out will be a lot more extreme and possibly murderous circumstantial to the horribly fucked-up conditions of the world and the traumatic effect it had on Shinji, which you completely ignored and substituted your own interpretation of an "everyday freakout which does not include an urge to kill" to reply to.
I made a post saying Shinji was crazy for freaking out and trying to murder Asuka, and then he made a sarcastic comment saying it "Its such an atypical reaction to freak out [insert time/place qualifier here]", implying that I was saying "freaking out is atypical", rather than the murder part. How is that not misconstruing my argument?
I again disagree with your proposition that only insane people will kill others. A great deal of literature in the world deals with the issue of what normal, sane people are pushed to do when confromted by extraordinary circumstance. Are you going to dismiss pretty much every Shakespearean tragedy because since the protagonists kill people, they're obviously batshit insane?
Depends on the circumstance. Is it a war/battle of some sort? Was their life being threatened/in danger? Did they wake up, and see at someone laying next to them? Did they simply not like the other person? Obviously there are instances when a sane person may be faced to take another's life. The question is, is this one of those instances? I say no, as clearly his life wasn't in danger, and it wasn't some sort of battle. Shinji's reaction was a result of being surprised, and "freaked out". And like I said, normal people don't respond to "surprise" with "murder". I get the feeling that you believe that Shinji's mental state is justified, therefore his reaction can therefore be justified as "sane". Its true his mental state is justified. Isolation/being stuck in a hellish world like that would probably drive anyone insane. Even if insanity is due to circumstances, it doesn't change what it is.
If you are correct in saying that a long time has passed between Shinji materialising on the beach and Asuka materialising on the beach, then my idea falls flat on its face. To me it seemed like the beach scene immediately follows the one between nekkid Rei and Shinji, and the dialogue with Yui, which is where he finally accepts his desire to live. I assumed that immediately after that he allowed people to have individual form again through Eva magic he materialises on the beach. I could be totally wrong though, and it's been a while since I've watched the film.
That was actually my initial thought on the scene as well, or at least, I originally thought that the beach scene immediately followed those previous scenes. But Eva fans in this thread have assured me that a significant period of time had passed since the two scenes, and that the long period of isolation in between them was the reason for Shinji to go nuts at the end.
Also, just a recommendation - posting a picture of a strawman as a response, and then beginning another retort by implicitly pointing out "Strawman." as your introductory sentence is an inelegant way to argue. It gives off the impression that you've just learnt about the various logical fallacies and couldn't resist demonstrating it to the world in every situation to which might vaguely apply. Perhaps you'll respond to this post with a picture of an ad hominem?
Nah, doing that isn't constructive to my ultimate goal.
On September 21 2012 12:00 N3rV[Green] wrote: You are right, the last two episodes do NOT do the show justice at all. This was due to budget constraints at the time, like they were OUT of money.
The end of evangelion movies are what they did once getting some money to give the show a proper ending.
so YES GO WATCH THEM!!!!!!
I thought they were fucking incredible.
And then go watch the first two of the new movies 1.01 and 2.22
Happy watching xD
The battle with the 5th angel in the first movie was so fucking cool. Mind-blowingly awesome fight there.
On September 21 2012 12:00 N3rV[Green] wrote: You are right, the last two episodes do NOT do the show justice at all. This was due to budget constraints at the time, like they were OUT of money.
The end of evangelion movies are what they did once getting some money to give the show a proper ending.
so YES GO WATCH THEM!!!!!!
I thought they were fucking incredible.
And then go watch the first two of the new movies 1.01 and 2.22
Happy watching xD
The battle with the 5th angel in the first movie was so fucking cool. Mind-blowingly awesome fight there.
The first time that thing screamed I had to rewind and hear it again like 4 times xD.
I just wish they could fit all the angels into the movies......I didn't get my shadow sphere mindfucker T.T
And to the children above.....can you maybe take the stupid arguments to PMs or something? I highly doubt anybody but you two care about it.
On September 20 2012 15:58 madcow305 wrote: I also find it funny that posts containing only an image are supposed to not be allowed under TL policy, but one of the haters violates this rule twice in the first 3 pages and nothing has happened.
You realize that OP, who clearly is anything but a hater, has violated that rule the most in this thread, right?
Yep, and I'd report his post too if I could be bothered.
Since this thread is 20 pages long and several mods have posted in it, I assume nobody has been warned or tempbanned because either I was mistaken and posting just an image is not against the rules, or mods don't give a shit. Either way, I suggest you ignore the hater trolls, because if they're still here after 20 pages in and they clearly dislike Evangelion, they're probably not here to engage you in meaningful discussion.
Because disliking something is equivalent to not being able to formulate meaningful discussion.
On September 21 2012 22:47 Sentenal wrote: I made a post saying Shinji was crazy for freaking out and trying to murder Asuka, and then he made a sarcastic comment saying it "Its such an atypical reaction to freak out [insert time/place qualifier here]", implying that I was saying "freaking out is atypical", rather than the murder part. How is that not misconstruing my argument?
There was no murder, nor was there a will to kill. There simply was a violent reaction. Do you also think that Chris Brown wanted to kill Rihanna? Do you think that James Stewart really wanted to kill Kim Novak in Vertigo? I mean, he was strangling her for Christ's sake, how can it be in a movie considerd by some as the best film of all time...
On September 21 2012 22:47 Sentenal wrote: Depends on the circumstance. Is it a war/battle of some sort? Was their life being threatened/in danger? Did they wake up, and see at someone laying next to them? Did they simply not like the other person?
No, Shakespeare deals with passion and madness. But hey, all these classical heroes are probably just "batshit insane".
On September 21 2012 22:47 Sentenal wrote: Obviously there are instances when a sane person may be faced to take another's life. The question is, is this one of those instances? I say no, as clearly his life wasn't in danger, and it wasn't some sort of battle. Shinji's reaction was a result of being surprised, and "freaked out". And like I said, normal people don't respond to "surprise" with "murder". I get the feeling that you believe that Shinji's mental state is justified, therefore his reaction can therefore be justified as "sane". Its true his mental state is justified. Isolation/being stuck in a hellish world like that would probably drive anyone insane. Even if insanity is due to circumstances, it doesn't change what it is.
Again with the hyperbolic statements! I ask you, did James Stuart really want to kill Kim Novak? Careful with your answer, or else film aficionados will probably... freak out.
Victor Hugo compared madness to a roaring lion we host inside our minds; among most people, it is a tamed beast. However, in the heads of a few, or in moments of weakness, it roams free. You're opposing "batshit insane" to "sane", which is a simplistic duality. We all have moments of madness, and insanity is not uncommon when we feel we touch the bottom. It doesn't mean we're simply "batshit insane". It means we had a moment of insanity. Do you know about reality shows? The candidates sometimes (actually, often) have weird reaction and behaviours. The simple and yet slightly disturbing situation they're in puts them through small moments of insanity. It does not mean that they're "batshit insane".
Woah woah woah, who said anything about "batshit insane" and "sane" being the only things someone can be? I agree it isn't dualistic, but I don't think I was making out a case that it was. No one is talking about the wide range of sanity people could have, or at least I'm not. We are talking about a single case, Shinji Ikari, and whether or not his actions at the end of EoE provides evidence for him to be insane or not. There is a difference. This is an isolated, single case discussion. People on reality TV, while they might have their weird quirks, aren't "insane", I agree. Everyone has moments of "madness", and yet not everyone is insane, I agree. But I don't see what that has to do with Shinji going nuts or not.
We are talking about a kid who freaked out, crawled on top of a defenseless girl, and strangled her. This is KINDA different from weirdos on reality TV or ordinary people who do weird/crazy stuff from time to time, because normally, the weird stuff they do aren't a danger to other people's lives, at least not directly. Now if one of those people randomly assualted another, then we can compare.
I haven't watched Vertigo, so I can't answer your question in good faith. What was the reason why James Stewart strangled whoever, and what was the situation?
Also, possibly related, what other purpose could someone have to strangle another human being, other than to kill them?
Also, again possibly related, when was the last time you got surprised by something, and then strangled a defenseless person in reaction? Or it doesn't have to be you, anyone you know?
No, Shakespeare deals with passion and madness. But hey, all these classical heroes are probably just "batshit insane".
If they commit an unjust assualt or murder of the innocent, then yes, that makes them crazy.
No, Shakespeare deals with passion and madness. But hey, all these classical heroes are probably just "batshit insane".
If they commit an unjust assualt or murder of the innocent, then yes, that makes them crazy.
It differs a lot between Shakespeare characters and stories especially given a difference in culture and a huge range of situations so I think it's unfair to generalize that much; however, some of his characters are indeed crazy. Certainly, the logic of their actions can be "justified," or rather, reasoned, through passion, but that doesn't make them any less crazy. Less crazy than one driven by mental illness compared to bouts of insanity driven by emotions, but still crazy. Also, I am no Shakespeare expert by any means, but the characters that do go down the path of madness are often a pivotal plot device in some way; they trigger events and their interactions with other characters are often still very entertaining. Even their soliloquies serve purpose due to the nature of plays and audience interaction. These are reasons as to why an insane character can still be considered well written, enjoyable to watch, and a "classical hero."
I'm not going to get into the Shinji crazy yes/no argument, mainly because I saw it far too long ago to remember many details, but calling a character crazy or "batshit insane" isn't really an insult to the character or work as a whole without taking context into account. Alone, it's merely stating an observation regarding him/her. Of course, Sentenal probably does mean it as an insult but using Shakespeare or any acclaimed work as a defense to the argument at hand implies good works don't have crazy people which simply is not true. They may start as normal, sane people but are crazy by the end (again, depends on the work and I don't want to do a case-by-case analysis).
No, Shakespeare deals with passion and madness. But hey, all these classical heroes are probably just "batshit insane".
If they commit an unjust assualt or murder of the innocent, then yes, that makes them crazy.
It differs a lot between Shakespeare characters and stories especially given a difference in culture and a huge range of situations so I think it's unfair to generalize that much; however, some of his characters are indeed crazy. Certainly, the logic of their actions can be "justified," or rather, reasoned, through passion, but that doesn't make them any less crazy. Less crazy than one driven by mental illness compared to bouts of insanity driven by emotions, but still crazy. Also, I am no Shakespeare expert by any means, but the characters that do go down the path of madness are often a pivotal plot device in some way; they trigger events and their interactions with other characters are often still very entertaining. Even their soliloquies serve purpose due to the nature of plays and audience interaction. These are reasons as to why an insane character can still be considered well written, enjoyable to watch, and a "classical hero."
I'm not going to get into the Shinji crazy yes/no argument, mainly because I saw it far too long ago to remember many details, but calling a character crazy or "batshit insane" isn't really an insult to the character or work as a whole without taking context into account. Alone, it's merely stating an observation regarding him/her. Of course, Sentenal probably does mean it as an insult but using Shakespeare or any acclaimed work as a defense to the argument at hand implies good works don't have crazy people which simply is not true. They may start as normal, sane people but are crazy by the end (again, depends on the work and I don't want to do a case-by-case analysis).
In general, I don't use "insane" as an insult. Some of my favorite characters are nuts. However, things have sorta gotten way off track from what the root of this entire argument is, lol. I said something like "Okay, so at the end, Shinji accepts who he is, and comes to terms with being a psychopath", and people took issue with that final part.
I was disappointed that they did not show Israfel in the movie, that episode was so funny. Nothing better then watching shinji and asuka having to play DDR. Also it had a lot of development in that episode, seems odd to just leave it out.
Also a question for anyone that watched the dub first, is that one you prefer. I mean the dub was not half bad and since that is the one i watched first it the one that i built the characters around so the sub voices dont seem to fit as well for me. When i watched the sub i always have this little voice in the back of my head that is like "this is not right".
On September 22 2012 11:17 Sentenal wrote: Also, again possibly related, when was the last time you got surprised by something, and then strangled a defenseless person in reaction? Or it doesn't have to be you, anyone you know?
No, Shakespeare deals with passion and madness. But hey, all these classical heroes are probably just "batshit insane".
If they commit an unjust assualt or murder of the innocent, then yes, that makes them crazy.
I don't know anyone who's been in anything worse than the death of a close being. I have no ambitious kings, apocalypse survivors, mad lovers or adventurers among my acquaintances. I live a pretty stable life, and moments of madness come from moments of unstability.
I'd also like to point out that by your definition, mafiosi are just "crazy". I thought they simply were cold-hearted individuals! Most tregedic heroes can also be labeled as insane if we follow this logic, as they often live painful and shocking situations that result in extreme reactions, like Mercutio who finds death in the hands of the "crazy" Tybalt (he wants to kill the innocent Romeo) after shouting a poem about fairies (what's wrong with him, seriously).
On September 22 2012 11:17 Sentenal wrote: Woah woah woah, who said anything about "batshit insane" and "sane" being the only things someone can be? I agree it isn't dualistic, but I don't think I was making out a case that it was. No one is talking about the wide range of sanity people could have, or at least I'm not. We are talking about a single case, Shinji Ikari, and whether or not his actions at the end of EoE provides evidence for him to be insane or not. There is a difference. This is an isolated, single case discussion. People on reality TV, while they might have their weird quirks, aren't "insane", I agree. Everyone has moments of "madness", and yet not everyone is insane, I agree. But I don't see what that has to do with Shinji going nuts or not.
Oh, alright. Shinji exists in a parallel universe, and as such, comparison between his reactions the reactions of other people / fictional characters is void. I get it. What does it have to with Shinji? Shinji's having a moment of madness. Nothing points towards definitive insanity. But for now, taking one crazy action from him, you've concluded that he's "batshit insane". I feel that you've taken quite a leap there.
On September 22 2012 11:17 Sentenal wrote: We are talking about a kid who freaked out, crawled on top of a defenseless girl, and strangled her. This is KINDA different from weirdos on reality TV or ordinary people who do weird/crazy stuff from time to time, because normally, the weird stuff they do aren't a danger to other people's lives, at least not directly. Now if one of those people randomly assualted another, then we can compare.
Oh yes, it does happen. Chris Brown. But I guess that Chris Brown wanted to murder Rihanna, indeed.
It's no different from weirdos on TV, it's the same mechanism. A shock can cause an exceptional irrational reaction. If your parents die and you spend two days watching their picture in the darkness of your kitchen, I believe that people will not simply go ahead and call you "nuts".
On September 22 2012 11:17 Sentenal wrote: I haven't watched Vertigo, so I can't answer your question in good faith. What was the reason why James Stewart strangled whoever, and what was the situation?
Also, possibly related, what other purpose could someone have to strangle another human being, other than to kill them?
James Stewart strangled his old lover because he believed she was dead, when she wasn't. She simply had deceived him. Madly in love, he reacts violently and then lets her go, only to kiss her passionately a few moments later.
Other reasons to strangle people include (but are not limited to) : rejection, fear, rage, despair, defensive aggression, begging for reactions, sexual pleasure, choking game, jokes, assertion of domination, intimidation, non-wounding aggression. Warning : choking can be fatal in certain cases. Special note to fictional heroes : do not indulge in irrational actions, to avoid being called "batshit insane". However, non-lethal use of violence by Chris Brown is considered normal.
I'd also like to point out that by your definition, mafiosi are just "crazy". I thought they simply were cold-hearted individuals! Most tregedic heroes can also be labeled as insane if we follow this logic, as they often live painful and shocking situations that result in extreme reactions, like Mercutio who finds death in the hands of the "crazy" Tybalt (he wants to kill the innocent Romeo) after shouting a poem about fairies (what's wrong with him, seriously).
They are. Like I've said a million times already (that you apparently can't read), just because someone has a reason to be crazy, doesn't mean they aren't crazy.
Oh, alright. Shinji exists in a parallel universe, and as such, comparison between his reactions the reactions of other people / fictional characters is void. I get it. What does it have to with Shinji? Shinji's having a moment of madness. Nothing points towards definitive insanity. But for now, taking one crazy action from him, you've concluded that he's "batshit insane". I feel that you've taken quite a leap there.
You are the one who started talking about dualism, not me. Shinji waking up, seeing someone, and trying to murder them is pointing definitively to insanity.
If your parents die and you spend two days watching their picture in the darkness of your kitchen, I believe that people will not simply go ahead and call you "nuts".
If that happens, and then you violently attack someone randomly, yes they will. Just because someone has a reason to be insane, doesn't mean they aren't insane.
James Stewart strangled his old lover because he believed she was dead, when she wasn't. She simply had deceived him. Madly in love, he reacts violently and then lets her go, only to kiss her passionately a few moments later.
So, he thought she was dead, so he strangled her while she was pretending to be dead? Or he found out she deceived him and then strangled her in reaction to that? The former sounds stupid, and the last one would indeed be cause to call him a crazy psychopath.
Other reasons to strangle people include (but are not limited to) : rejection, fear, rage, despair, defensive aggression, begging for reactions, sexual pleasure, choking game, jokes, assertion of domination, intimidation, non-wounding aggression. Warning : choking can be fatal in certain cases.
Rejection: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Additionally, if someone strangles another because of rejection, then that is good evidence that they are a psychopath. Fear: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Rage: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Additionally, if someone strangles another because of rage, then that is good evidence that they are a psychopath. Despair: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Additionally, if someone strangles another because of despair, then that is good evidence that they are a psychopath. Defensive aggression: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Begging for reactions: what Sexual pleasure: You can't possibly believe that someone who strangles others for sexual pleasure can be sane...... Choking game: What? I think in this case, rather than "insane", "retarded" would be a better description. Jokes: Strangling someone... being a joke? You think that choking someone is funny? Whats wrong with you? Assertion of domination: Someone who chokes others to assert domination over them is crazy. Intimidation: See above Non-wounding aggression: See above.
Now, since you gave a bunch of motivations for people to strangle other people, rather than purpose (or, what they intend to accomplish by strangling), I'll answer my own question, since apparently you aren't able to, or are unwilling. What other purpose could someone have to strangle another human being? First, ask yourself, what does strangling someone entail? You stop the other person from breathing. What does this do? This cuts off air to your victim, and eventually, without being able to breath, they suffocate and die. The victim doesn't benefit in any way, and their life is threatened by it. Doing this to someone qualifies as attempted murder, or murder if you succeed. People who are relatively sane know this and don't attempt to murder other people. And then to qualify, you think that in this case, Shinji's attempted murder of Asuka (who is an innocent) is justified and acceptable. Therefore, you think attempted murder of innocent people is okay.
Special note to fictional heroes : do not indulge in irrational actions, to avoid being called "batshit insane". However, non-lethal use of violence by Chris Brown is considered normal.
Your previous post you were trying to act like I was being dualistic, and yet here you are, grouping all "irrational actions" with "attempted murder of the innocent". And non-lethal use of violence isn't normal either, IDK where you got that. You are pretty bad at this.
On September 23 2012 12:24 Sentenal wrote: They are. Like I've said a million times already (that you apparently can't read), just because someone has a reason to be crazy, doesn't mean they aren't crazy. [...] ...everyone is crazy... [...]
James Stewart strangled his old lover because he believed she was dead, when she wasn't. She simply had deceived him. Madly in love, he reacts violently and then lets her go, only to kiss her passionately a few moments later.
So, he thought she was dead, so he strangled her while she was pretending to be dead? Or he found out she deceived him and then strangled her in reaction to that? The former sounds stupid, and the last one would indeed be cause to call him a crazy psychopath.
Alright, so by your definition, most soliders are crazy, George Bush is crazy, Nicolas Sarkozy is crazy, Reagan was crazy, Nixon was crazy, robbers are crazy, arms dealers are crazy, Hezbollah members are crazy, Mossad agents are crazy, CIA agents are crazy, polluters are crazy... that's a lot of crazy people.
If you also believe that an infuriated James Stewart can be labelled as durably insane after strangling Kim Novak (and letting her go), then let's just say you have an... odd and unusual definition of insanity. But I will repeat my question : is Chris Brown crazy?
Other reasons to strangle people include (but are not limited to) : rejection, fear, rage, despair, defensive aggression, begging for reactions, sexual pleasure, choking game, jokes, assertion of domination, intimidation, non-wounding aggression. Warning : choking can be fatal in certain cases.
Rejection: This is a motive, not a goal of strangling someone. Additionally, if someone strangles another because of rejection, then that is good evidence that they are a psychopath. Strangling as an act of rejection. [...] Sexual pleasure: You can't possibly believe that someone who strangles others for sexual pleasure can be sane...... Virgin spotted :D You're missing on kinky stuff man. [...] Now, since you gave a bunch of motivations for people to strangle other people, rather than purpose (or, what they intend to accomplish by strangling), I'll answer my own question, since apparently you aren't able to, or are unwilling. What other purpose could someone have to strangle another human being? [...] People who are relatively sane know this and don't attempt to murder other people. And then to qualify, you think that in this case, Shinji's attempted murder of Asuka (who is an innocent) is justified and acceptable. Therefore, you think attempted murder of innocent people is okay.
1) Does every action, especially those triggered by passion, have a motive? There's no motive when I burst in laughter, nor when I push a friend playfully. And there was no motive when this drunk dude sucker punched me at a party.
2) What was Chris Brown's motive? If he kept hitting her, it could've been lethal.
-> As such, strangling someone as an extreme reaction is not an attemp of murder (since there was no desire to kill in the first place) as long as the person stops and realizes his own irrationality (if the person doesn't stop) -> Shinji is therefore not necessarily insane, simply shocked.
If you doubt this, swing by a justice court sometime, and see for yourself. You'll learn that humans are in fact irrational creatures (or you could learn that through psychology, contemporary philosophy, history, or introspection).
Now, setting definitely aside Sentenal's neoconservative marginal views on the human psyche, does anyone read the manga?
I got no fuckin clue who Chris Brown is, I don't watch reality TV or where ever he is from. You really like to paint everything as dualistic (OMG THEY KILLED SOMEONE, YOU MUST THINK THEY ARE INSANE), which hilarious after you tried to say thats what I was doing. Let me give you some definitions to clarify stuff for you:
Sociopath: a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
Psychopath: a person afflicted with a personality disorder characterized by a tendency to commit antisocial and sometimes violent acts and a failure to feel guilt for such acts
Insane:not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.
All are different types of crazy, but pick your poison and assign them to most of the different examples you picked. Robbers, terrorists, soldiers who commit atrocities, etc. Additionally, while Shinji does conform 100% to being insane, he also possess elements of being a sociopath and a psychopath.
1) Does every action, especially those triggered by passion, have a motive? There's no motive when I burst in laughter, nor when I push a friend playfully. And there was no motive when this drunk dude sucker punched me at a party.
Motive=/=goal. Motive is the "why [did they do it?]", goal is the "What [do they want to accomplish?]". Mildly amused either you can't tell the difference between "why" and "what", or refuse to answer the question in good faith, because you know the "what" doesn't have very many answers, none of them favorable to you.
Also, LOL comparing bursting into laughter to attempted murder, like that are similar things.
-> As such, strangling someone as an extreme reaction is not an attemp of murder (since there was no desire to kill in the first place) as long as the person stops and realizes his own irrationality (if the person doesn't stop) -> Shinji is therefore not necessarily insane, simply shocked.
No, since it was an attempt at murder, since the only thing resulting from successful strangulation is murder. I've asked you several times to give me another goal that someone could be trying to get for strangling someone else, and the best you have been able to give me is "sexual pleasure", which doesn't even apply to this situation. Therefore, Shinji is insane, and you think attempted murder is okay.
Guys, could you please finish your discussion via pm? This is more about your two opinions clashing, not about the series anymore. It just bloats up the whole thread.
Remember loving this series when I was a kid, partially probably due to the reason that it was one of the first animes I ever saw, so that played a pretty big role. I'm interested in watching the remake movies that currently came out a few years ago, and that they are still working on. Should be a nice blast of nostalgia, I wonder if it'll hold up as well now as it did in my memory.
On September 24 2012 12:29 Wedge wrote: Remember loving this series when I was a kid, partially probably due to the reason that it was one of the first animes I ever saw, so that played a pretty big role. I'm interested in watching the remake movies that currently came out a few years ago, and that they are still working on. Should be a nice blast of nostalgia, I wonder if it'll hold up as well now as it did in my memory.
I was very much in the same boat as you, and the new movies absolutely blew me away. I suggest re-watching the entire series + Death & Rebirth / End of Evangelion before watching the Rebuild films to get a real comparison of how (equally, not superior) awesome the Rebuild films really are.
Mm just finished watching 1.11, and it hasn't been thaaaaat long since I have actually seen the series.
1.11 was great, would definitely recommend to everyone, whereas the original series I would only recommend to some of my friends. Excited to watch 2.22.
On the topic of remake etc, it is pretty clear that it's a remake/sequel together, which is interesting. In any case, pumped to have more to watch. Also, I seem to be part of a minority in liking the last two eps of the original series, huh? But yes, good stuff.
I'd appreciate it if threads that contained anime would get a corresponding tag, so people wouldn't be disappointed after being misled by an awesome title like "Neon Genesis Evangelion".
Oh man. I only got into anime a few months ago and watched NGE because, well, its NGE.
I'll be honest, I didn't like it very much at all once things really started rolling. Especially EoE, I had the same reaction as everyone else. The fuck? And Shinji just pissed me off to no end. God, do I hate that character.
After letting it sit for a bit though, after understanding everything, after reading those helpful 4chan '2deep4u' explanations of wtf just happened, I learned to like it in hindsight. Would I watch NGE again? No, god no. Never. But yes, in hindsight, I think its a great show.
And then there's the rebuild series. 1.11 was beautiful and Ramiel was fucking awesome. Seriously Ramiel was... just incredible. I was very impressed. Loved it. Other than that though it was just NGE but prettier and I didn't find it all that special.
2.22 on the other hand I loved, and not just in hindsight. It was great and I've gotta rewatch it soon. It makes me fear for 3.33 though, as I expect things will turn on their head and go straight down the shitter. Things were too happy. Hopes were raised too high in 2.22, and even though they were quickly crushed, it still ended on an overall more positive note than expected.
Anyways. Excited to read this thread later on today. :D
On September 24 2012 22:43 kafkaesque wrote: I'd appreciate it if threads that contained anime would get a corresponding tag, so people wouldn't be disappointed after being misled by an awesome title like "Neon Genesis Evangelion".
Judging from your nickname, I'd say NGE might actually be an anime you could enjoy - even if you usually don't watch anime. NGE with all its background-story is very kafkaesque, with a dominant theme of social fears, although it seems a lot more like a typical mecha-anime the first half of the series, don't get scared off by that.
Okay. I skimmed this thread for like 45 minutes. I didn't actually read everything because jesus you guys take discussions seriously.
I agree with most of Sentenal's sentiments, except that I actually like this show a whole bunch. And I loved 2.22. Sent, what was your opinion on the rebuild movies? Just curious! :D Sorry if you already said so somewhere... there's a lot to sift through.
On September 19 2012 12:56 Quintum_ wrote: @Sentenal You know shinji had been alone for quite some time after he rejected Instrumentality. Studies have shown that when you place a person in isolation for a long time they tend to go crazy
Prisoners who are isolated for prolonged periods of time have been known to experience "depression, despair, anxiety, rage, claustrophobia, hallucinations, problems with impulse control, and/or an impaired ability to think, concentrate, or remember." (2) Studies have also shown that isolation can cause "impaired vision and hearing... tinnitus [(ringing in the ears)], weakening of the immune system, amenorrhea [(absence of menstrual periods in women)], premature menopause... and aggressive behavior in prisoners, volunteers and animals." (1)
Previously healthy prisoners have "develop[ed] clinical symptoms usually associated with psychosis or severe affective disorders" (2) including "all types of psychiatric morbidity." (4) Many have committed suicide.
Individuals do vary in how well they can deal with living in isolation, however. (4) For prisoners with pre-existing mental or emotional disorders, living without normal human interaction, physical and mental activity and stimulation can aggravate their symptoms to levels equivalent to torture. (2), (3) In one complaint filed against the Connecticut Department of Correction in August 2003, social isolation and sensory deprivation drove some prisoners to "lash out by swallowing razors, smashing their heads into walls or cutting their flesh." (3)
I'll be honest, I don't remember the time frame between the end of Instrumentality and him deciding to strangle Asuka. I assumed it wasn't any time at all or a short amount of time, but assuming he was in isolation for a long time, its still the story ending with him going crazy, is it not?
My interpretation was that... yes. He did go crazy. But to be fair, just about anyone anywhere would go crazy after going through all of that shit.
But you go on to argue that he killed her, or tried to kill her. What I understood was that he wasn't trying to kill her, but rather confirming that she was real. He's been alone for all this time and sees her, and assumes that she's a hallucination. So, being crazy, (and I'm sure the fact that she's a total and complete bitch has something to do with it) he strangles her to see if she's real. When she reacts, he knows she is and stops.
Fuck, I can't find those stupid 2deep4u explanation images I found on /a/. They were very useful after finishing the series.
On September 15 2012 12:58 N3rV[Green] wrote: Ok I need to talk to somebody about this.....I just watched 2.0 for the first time (was trying to put it off after 1.0 till all 4, but fuck it couldn't do it) and........just wow.
The first movie was perfect, basically just the first 6 episodes with some clarification here and there as people said......but this 2.0 has thrown me off really hard. Not in a bad way, just in a HOLY FUCKING WTF DID I JUST WATCH NOOOO ASUKA WAIT WTF NEW CHICK WAIT WTF UNIT02 WAIT WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF.
So.......to other people who have watched every single episode of the anime over 20 times each who watched 2.0 with 0 warning as to just what it was. What do you think about it?
All I can think is that this is no longer anything even close to the original anime (in a good way), but I fear Asuka is going to be very much less important than she was in the anime which makes me sad, her being my favorite character.
But really....those last 30-40 minutes are just an absolute mindfuck and even MORE so if you know exactly what SHOULD be happening according to the anime......holy fucking shit.
I can't be alone here can I?
This is how I felt, and that's why I love it. It was such an awesome and unexpected turn of events. And it was just so... happy. Which is funny cause it actually isn't at all; it's only happy when compared to the original.
These two songs are some of my personal all-time favorites. The second one, in particular, is super fucking deep.
Komm, Susser Tod is actually an awesome song. Cruel Angel's Thesis was pretty awesome too. And what is this second song you posted? Is that actually part of the OST? Why the hell are so many Eva songs mixed with Peschabel's Canon? Am I missing something here?
Also, havn't seen any of these two on here. So here they are, for all the Shinji haters:
and this
I think they're both awesome and they definitely made me respect Shinji more. I especially love the rap. I still fucking hate him though.
On September 25 2012 02:47 Crazyeyes wrote: I agree with most of Sentenal's sentiments, except that I actually like this show a whole bunch. And I loved 2.22. Sent, what was your opinion on the rebuild movies? Just curious! :D
Both look really good, the first movie was alright, nothing really special, mostly just the first part of the TV series except it looks 100x better. 2.2 was good, I liked it. Time will tell how good the upcoming ones are.
I've never seen either of those two last things, and god damn am I glad I have now xD
That rap was hysterical lol.
I've managed to get a buddy interested and after seeing the first episode of the anime he's definitely wanting more. Should I drag him through the whole anime? Key episodes and then the two new movies? Just the two new movies?
On September 25 2012 07:14 N3rV[Green] wrote: I've never seen either of those two last things, and god damn am I glad I have now xD
That rap was hysterical lol.
I've managed to get a buddy interested and after seeing the first episode of the anime he's definitely wanting more. Should I drag him through the whole anime? Key episodes and then the two new movies? Just the two new movies?
What do?
Tell him to stop watching at episode 16 or just give him the latest two new movies that actually make some sense so far. No point in going through the last third of the series, understanding nothing and then reading forum posts that still try to create explanations over a decade later. Even Hideaki Anno says a lot of the stuff he put in there makes no sense/wasn't supposed too.
That's my take, the first 16 episodes of the series were amazing and extremely well done, great character development/story etc (even if shinji is one of the most annoying protagonists ever). Then the last third just massively drops the ball and I'll never understand peoples enjoyment in watching a depressed writer just dump all his thoughts on screen.
That's my take, the first 16 episodes of the series were amazing and extremely well done, great character development/story etc (even if shinji is one of the most annoying protagonists ever). Then the last third just massively drops the ball and I'll never understand peoples enjoyment in watching a depressed writer just dump all his thoughts on screen.
yea , thats your oppinion , but i found the last ~8 episodes of the series really amazing , everything after the attck of the 12th angel basically. the last two episodes in particular have such a great tone to them, its something unique that your not gonna find anywhere else.
And to write it all off as just Annos depression in anime form suggests to me that you have just formed your oppinion based on reading forum posts made by other misinformed 13 year olds and have never watched the series at all. The final point that Anno makes in the mental examination of Shinji at the end of episode 26 is beauty itself , and im not ashamed to say i cried , i cried during the round of congratulations.
On September 25 2012 07:14 N3rV[Green] wrote: I've never seen either of those two last things, and god damn am I glad I have now xD
That rap was hysterical lol.
I've managed to get a buddy interested and after seeing the first episode of the anime he's definitely wanting more. Should I drag him through the whole anime? Key episodes and then the two new movies? Just the two new movies?
What do?
Here's my thoughts on it: Have him watch the entire series, then EoE. With you or without you, it's up to you... but don't go explaining everything to him all the time. Let him watch it. He's supposed to be confused as fuck. Shit just doesn't make sense... or at least not without some deep analysis.
I'd say to just leave it for a day or two after he's done EoE. Let him think about wtf just happened. Either have him read up online or send him links to explanations or just explain shit yourself. When I finished, I spent like 2 days trying to understand whatever the fuck happened.
The things that helped me the most were those fucking 2deep4u images on 4chan. Go to /a/, and find/make a 'what the fuck did I just watch?' eva thread and I'm sure they'll be dumped. After going through that shit I somehow learned to like the show (after finishing EoE I was angry with that retarded shit I just went through).
THEN watch Rebuild. Just going straight into rebuild without understanding the original, in my opinion, is the wrong way to go about it. 2.22 was awesome because youre expecting it to continue being same old depressing shit, and then rebuild 2.22 fucking happens and its awesome.
That's my take, the first 16 episodes of the series were amazing and extremely well done, great character development/story etc (even if shinji is one of the most annoying protagonists ever). Then the last third just massively drops the ball and I'll never understand peoples enjoyment in watching a depressed writer just dump all his thoughts on screen.
yea , thats your oppinion , but i found the last ~8 episodes of the series really amazing , everything after the attck of the 12th angel basically. the last two episodes in particular have such a great tone to them, its something unique that your not gonna find anywhere else.
And to write it all off as just Annos depression in anime form suggests to me that you have just formed your oppinion based on reading forum posts made by other misinformed 13 year olds and have never watched the series at all. The final point that Anno makes in the mental examination of Shinji at the end of episode 26 is beauty itself , and im not ashamed to say i cried , i cried during the round of congratulations.
Yeah, all I did was read forum posts by misinformed 13 year olds. Sounds like you`re just obsessed with the show and in actuality the end of the series was redone from what was originally supposed to happen:
A sudden shift in tone occurred in the series around episode 16, partially due to scheduling restraints (drastically reducing the number of frames that could be drawn for each episode)[7] and the sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway on March 20, 1995 (with Anno removing elements of the plot he thought would be too similar to the real-life attack).[8] While Anno had promised early on that "every episode [would give]...something for the fans to drool over," he began either removing fan service or juxtaposing it with scenes of emotional trauma.[9] The problematic schedule and Gainax's reputation for delivering episode prints at the last minute also resulted in more experimental approaches, with several episodes reusing shots, using uncommonly long still frames, flashing frames of often rhetorical introspective (Japanese) text and the final two episodes changed from their original concept into a psychological analysis of the main characters.
Basically he put the last third of the series together last minute and that ending wasn't even supposed to be what he originally wanted, but of course. masterpiece! "Something unique" is a bunch of drivel that every other person has another explanation for and is overly melodramatic (as expected from a depressed writer who admitted he wrote the last parts of the series while being influenced by his depression). The ending of the series was so awe-inspiring that Anno tried to replace the final parts of the series with a movie. Even Anno doesn't understand some of the stuff he wrote, he's notorious for changing his mind on the meaning of things from interview to interview. The only thing I cried over at the end of the series was at how awful it ended when it started so amazingly well.
I actually prefer the second half of the series a bit more. The first 10 episodes move really slow, they're mostly just drawn out setup. The pacing only starts to speed up after asuka appears in episode 8, but it still takes a few more to really get going. Even after 16, the way they continually up the ante with the angels and the craziness of the situation unraveling and crashing down keeps me glued after each episode and wanting to watch more.
On September 25 2012 09:24 LeaD wrote: Basically he put the last third of the series together last minute and that ending wasn't even supposed to be what he originally wanted, but of course. masterpiece! "Something unique" is a bunch of drivel that every other person has another explanation for and is overly melodramatic (as expected from a depressed writer who admitted he wrote the last parts of the series while being influenced by his depression). The ending of the series was so awe-inspiring that Anno tried to replace the final parts of the series with a movie. Even Anno doesn't understand some of the stuff he wrote, he's notorious for changing his mind on the meaning of things from interview to interview. The only thing I cried over at the end of the series was at how awful it ended when it started so amazingly well.
It sure is messy, but I wouldn't say he made it all up. I feel that they were so rushed that they just decided to put everything on the show, even though they sometimes didn't know how to do it. Many things remained half-said, very few things were completely clear, but is was a blessing for those who like to reflect a lot on what they watch.
There are two directions towards which a fiction can go : towards a realistic diegesis, or towards stylization and simplification. If you make the choice of realism (in narrative terms), you're bound to be left with something complex, something chaotic, but at the same time very rich. If you make the choice of stylization, you can play on symbolism and lead the viewer/reader as you will (tales usually work this way).
I wouldn't say that either part of the series is bad, but either are surely different. The beginning is simple, a mech story like any generic mech shonen, and the ending is complex, like... well, I can't think of many examples right now. What makes Evangelion unique is that you have both in the same show, and these two tendencies meet halfway through. The movie isn't simply Anno's decision, it was greatly due to the pressure of angry fans and producers, as Evangelion was still supposed to be entertainment (the ending is overly intellectual for any prime-time youth tv show).
In short, some may say that the ending wasn't exactly what they wanted, but at the same time this is the case in every movie and every show : the outcome always escapes the creator's control to some extent. Those who aren't used to interpretations usually find themselves lost when the author doesn't clearly lead you somewhere, but the goal of the author is sometimes to provide rich content that you will reflect upon.
Soooo finally got my buddy through most of the show and the end of Eva movie. He just kept getting more and more confused, but managed to get a pretty good idea of wtf was happening. Now we are watching the rebuild trying to really look at how characters are acting compared to in the show.
Stuff like Shinji smirking exactly like his father at one point, which I think is pretty huge.
On September 13 2012 08:17 Xiphos wrote: I don't get it.
Its about a guy who QQ about piloting 'man's ultimate fighting machine' along with 1 overly horny redhead and a droid that is willing to perform any task.
Do you see what's wrong with the plot?
there is comics all over the net about a version of the world where he thinks exactly like you and blows everything up like a man, but of course the reason why this show is so dam awesome is simply because it is so fucked in the head in every aspect.
it is a show to troll a greater half of the similar shows made before it.
NGE, both the series and EoE, was a crucial part of my childhood. I've loved the Rebuilds so far, as they present an interestingly different take on the same story.
ok so 14 years have past that's definitely new from the series. i'm really interested in what the triggers were for 4th impact. did lillith still turn into a huge rei during third impact? i have a feeling that the two lance of longinus were actually responsible for 'stopping' third impact, since instrumentality was not achieved. not sure what the consequence was that they wore both longinus, not cassius and longinus. probably something new for the reboot.
also kawaru dying is always saddening still not sure the status of these movies - sequel, reboot, parallel universe?
Well at least the fansub groups will have better quality footage to work with :p Was going to buy the DVD if it had English subs but now I'm not so sure. Guess I'll wait and see who comes out with quality subs first
Is there any place with detailed explanations of the differences and implications of the new movies? Not just a wikipedia page (unless it's very descriptive) but something made by pretty serious fans. I don't know when I'll be able to watch if any time soon.
just watched this thing. the amount of code breaking effort required to get to the substantive content is too much. don't see the point. characters got washed over yet again, 'reinterpretation' eh? not enough patience to figure out why to care.
On April 28 2013 00:31 Capped wrote: Just watched a video from the first page.
Masturbating over a comatosed chick.
This is too far into the depths of otaku for me to be.
*Slowly backs out*
You started with that one? Ohhh goodness, lol. Not the best representation of the franchise, haha!
2.22 came in the mail last week (Amazon had it on sale). I admit, I liked it. After having watched the show and EoE, the plot points Anno tried to express earlier finally start to make sense to me in this one. If he could have taken the (highly relative) clarity of the story from the Rebuild, and combined it with his animation and pacing styles from the original show, I would have far less to gripe about overall.
Anno has always been gratuitous with Eva, but it's extremely obvious with the Rebuild. I wasn't very pleased with the amount and type of "special features" on the second disc of either movie, and Anno appears to be capitalizing on references for the fanbase of the original material more so than creating great, new content that enhances the franchise, instead of using the popularity as a crutch.
I won't go so far as to say he's only profiteering off of the franchise; I think he sincerely wants to reinterpret Eva into something else, perhaps more contemporary and applicable to the culture around him. But it's obvious, to me anyways, that he relies very strongly on the show and EoE as a goal for the Rebuild's success. I'll still watch 3.33 nonetheless, and 4.44 whenever that's finally released, because I'm interested in seeing where he wants to go with this alternate plotline. Like the show, I recommend the Rebuild not necessary because it's the most enjoyable anime, but because it's an important, pivotal anime. I'd compare it to the Bible of anime: you may not like it all that much and you could disagree with Anno's conclusions completely, but if you're going to be an anime nerd, it's pretty much a must-watch regardless.
evangelion was to mock the degenerate otaku culture, but instead spawned a legacy of character fetish cults. character fetish is basically anime nowadays, so i'd say it's a pretty tragic piece of irony
On April 28 2013 00:31 Capped wrote: Just watched a video from the first page.
Masturbating over a comatosed chick.
This is too far into the depths of otaku for me to be.
*Slowly backs out*
You started with that one? Ohhh goodness, lol. Not the best representation of the franchise, haha!
2.22 came in the mail last week (Amazon had it on sale). I admit, I liked it. After having watched the show and EoE, the plot points Anno tried to express earlier finally start to make sense to me in this one. If he could have taken the (highly relative) clarity of the story from the Rebuild, and combined it with his animation and pacing styles from the original show, I would have far less to gripe about overall.
Anno has always been gratuitous with Eva, but it's extremely obvious with the Rebuild. I wasn't very pleased with the amount and type of "special features" on the second disc of either movie, and Anno appears to be capitalizing on references for the fanbase of the original material more so than creating great, new content that enhances the franchise, instead of using the popularity as a crutch.
I won't go so far as to say he's only profiteering off of the franchise; I think he sincerely wants to reinterpret Eva into something else, perhaps more contemporary and applicable to the culture around him. But it's obvious, to me anyways, that he relies very strongly on the show and EoE as a goal for the Rebuild's success. I'll still watch 3.33 nonetheless, and 4.44 whenever that's finally released, because I'm interested in seeing where he wants to go with this alternate plotline. Like the show, I recommend the Rebuild not necessary because it's the most enjoyable anime, but because it's an important, pivotal anime. I'd compare it to the Bible of anime: you may not like it all that much and you could disagree with Anno's conclusions completely, but if you're going to be an anime nerd, it's pretty much a must-watch regardless.
That is an utter insult to other anime work that are better than nge. nge is THE classic example of an artistic work that acts bigger than it actually is. It's just like lady gaga and other contemporary artists who try too hard to put some kind of meaning or style into their work. Everything feels forced and unnatural. neon genesis evangelion has its merits as an anime but don't beautify it.
On April 28 2013 00:31 Capped wrote: Just watched a video from the first page.
Masturbating over a comatosed chick.
This is too far into the depths of otaku for me to be.
*Slowly backs out*
You started with that one? Ohhh goodness, lol. Not the best representation of the franchise, haha!
2.22 came in the mail last week (Amazon had it on sale). I admit, I liked it. After having watched the show and EoE, the plot points Anno tried to express earlier finally start to make sense to me in this one. If he could have taken the (highly relative) clarity of the story from the Rebuild, and combined it with his animation and pacing styles from the original show, I would have far less to gripe about overall.
Anno has always been gratuitous with Eva, but it's extremely obvious with the Rebuild. I wasn't very pleased with the amount and type of "special features" on the second disc of either movie, and Anno appears to be capitalizing on references for the fanbase of the original material more so than creating great, new content that enhances the franchise, instead of using the popularity as a crutch.
I won't go so far as to say he's only profiteering off of the franchise; I think he sincerely wants to reinterpret Eva into something else, perhaps more contemporary and applicable to the culture around him. But it's obvious, to me anyways, that he relies very strongly on the show and EoE as a goal for the Rebuild's success. I'll still watch 3.33 nonetheless, and 4.44 whenever that's finally released, because I'm interested in seeing where he wants to go with this alternate plotline. Like the show, I recommend the Rebuild not necessary because it's the most enjoyable anime, but because it's an important, pivotal anime. I'd compare it to the Bible of anime: you may not like it all that much and you could disagree with Anno's conclusions completely, but if you're going to be an anime nerd, it's pretty much a must-watch regardless.
That is an utter insult to other anime work that are better than nge. nge is THE classic example of an artistic work that acts bigger than it actually is. It's just like lady gaga and other contemporary artists who try too hard to put some kind of meaning or style into their work. Everything feels forced and unnatural. neon genesis evangelion has its merits as an anime but don't beautify it.
On April 28 2013 00:31 Capped wrote: Just watched a video from the first page.
Masturbating over a comatosed chick.
This is too far into the depths of otaku for me to be.
*Slowly backs out*
You started with that one? Ohhh goodness, lol. Not the best representation of the franchise, haha!
2.22 came in the mail last week (Amazon had it on sale). I admit, I liked it. After having watched the show and EoE, the plot points Anno tried to express earlier finally start to make sense to me in this one. If he could have taken the (highly relative) clarity of the story from the Rebuild, and combined it with his animation and pacing styles from the original show, I would have far less to gripe about overall.
Anno has always been gratuitous with Eva, but it's extremely obvious with the Rebuild. I wasn't very pleased with the amount and type of "special features" on the second disc of either movie, and Anno appears to be capitalizing on references for the fanbase of the original material more so than creating great, new content that enhances the franchise, instead of using the popularity as a crutch.
I won't go so far as to say he's only profiteering off of the franchise; I think he sincerely wants to reinterpret Eva into something else, perhaps more contemporary and applicable to the culture around him. But it's obvious, to me anyways, that he relies very strongly on the show and EoE as a goal for the Rebuild's success. I'll still watch 3.33 nonetheless, and 4.44 whenever that's finally released, because I'm interested in seeing where he wants to go with this alternate plotline. Like the show, I recommend the Rebuild not necessary because it's the most enjoyable anime, but because it's an important, pivotal anime. I'd compare it to the Bible of anime: you may not like it all that much and you could disagree with Anno's conclusions completely, but if you're going to be an anime nerd, it's pretty much a must-watch regardless.
That is an utter insult to other anime work that are better than nge. nge is THE classic example of an artistic work that acts bigger than it actually is. It's just like lady gaga and other contemporary artists who try too hard to put some kind of meaning or style into their work. Everything feels forced and unnatural. neon genesis evangelion has its merits as an anime but don't beautify it.
I'll reword that: it's like "a" Bible for anime. The best thing ever? No. Not by a long shot. But an important work nonetheless.
Sorry if I offended with that. Of course that wasn't my intention. I'm trying to figure out the best way to word that without coming across as a know-it-all. I'm wanting to say that it's something that folks may not like (to be honest, I didn't like Eva the first time I saw it, and I've still got my qualms with the franchise; I agree that it acts bigger than it really is), but if they want to delve deep into anime, it's a staple that shouldn't be ignored.
Edit: I'm trying to emphasize the significance of the story and the influence its notoriety has had on anime culture. I'm not attempting to say it's the greatest animation to hit screens.
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
Pretty sure he did. To be fair, I can see where he's coming from, and I actually agree with him to a certain extent.
Lol, I realize what I accidentally did there. Thanks for pointing that out. X-D But I only meant it in the sense that the Bible is not at all the most exciting or entertaining book to be written. Its notoriety deserves examination however, in my opinion.
(on the slightly off-topic, I'm making an abridged series for Eva to highlight the ridiculousness of the plot and my initial opinion of the series; I don't do this because I like the series necessarily, I do it 'cause it's easy to poke fun at and a hilarious way to waste time )
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
Pretty sure he did. To be fair, I can see where he's coming from, and I actually agree with him to a certain extent.
Lol, I realize what I accidentally did there. Thanks for pointing that out. X-D But I only meant it in the sense that the Bible is not at all the most exciting or entertaining book to be written. Its notoriety deserves examination however, in my opinion.
(on the slightly off-topic, I'm making an abridged series for Eva to highlight the ridiculousness of the plot and my initial opinion of the series; I don't do this because I like the series necessarily, I do it 'cause it's easy to poke fun at and a hilarious way to waste time )
I guess your saying that Evangelion in influential/popular enough to warrant a watch?
Also flaws aside I enjoyed evangelion 3.0...It was a spectacle for sure. Just hope 4.0 manages to answer the MANY questions raised from 3.0 and the previous movies and lay down on the action -.-.
On April 28 2013 04:35 []Phase[] wrote: Alright, so I want to start watching this. Where the fuck do I start? Theres mangas, a bunch of different endings called death true and death true2...
Im confused, can some1 point me in the right direction without me having to look stuff up and potentially ending up getting spoiled?
On April 10 2013 13:34 Serpico wrote: Is there any place with detailed explanations of the differences and implications of the new movies? Not just a wikipedia page (unless it's very descriptive) but something made by pretty serious fans. I don't know when I'll be able to watch if any time soon.
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
Pretty sure he did. To be fair, I can see where he's coming from, and I actually agree with him to a certain extent.
Lol, I realize what I accidentally did there. Thanks for pointing that out. X-D But I only meant it in the sense that the Bible is not at all the most exciting or entertaining book to be written. Its notoriety deserves examination however, in my opinion.
(on the slightly off-topic, I'm making an abridged series for Eva to highlight the ridiculousness of the plot and my initial opinion of the series; I don't do this because I like the series necessarily, I do it 'cause it's easy to poke fun at and a hilarious way to waste time )
I guess your saying that Evangelion in influential/popular enough to warrant a watch?
Yes, I am saying that. At least if someone wants to get into anime in general very seriously.
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
Pretty sure he did. To be fair, I can see where he's coming from, and I actually agree with him to a certain extent.
Lol, I realize what I accidentally did there. Thanks for pointing that out. X-D But I only meant it in the sense that the Bible is not at all the most exciting or entertaining book to be written. Its notoriety deserves examination however, in my opinion.
(on the slightly off-topic, I'm making an abridged series for Eva to highlight the ridiculousness of the plot and my initial opinion of the series; I don't do this because I like the series necessarily, I do it 'cause it's easy to poke fun at and a hilarious way to waste time )
I guess your saying that Evangelion in influential/popular enough to warrant a watch?
Yes, I am saying that. At least if someone wants to get into anime in general very seriously.
Yup, I agree with you. Any modern anime fan should watch the original NGE tv anime + EoE, if only to see modern anime in the context in which it developed. Everything from character design (look at how many fucking expies of Rei there are) to the rise then fall of deconstructive/dark anime (FLCL/TTGL as a response by the same studio, let alone others). Even in Japan, Madoka Magica was described as Eva for mahou shoujo for a reason, and it was 15 years since TV Eva was broadcast for the first time.
I personally think it still stands pretty strongly on its own merits, but if nothing else, it's so culturally and commercially significant in the anime industry that any serious fan should watch it.
All of this only applies to the original TV anime + End of Evangelion. The Rebuild movies, I personally think, are less interesting than the originals, and they don't have the significance of the originals either.
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
You're making a stretch with what I wrote. NGE is similar to lady gaga in the sense that they are both part of the modernism/post-modernism shit that people today call art. Things become artistic or literary masterpieces because the people making them are naturally talented with storytelling, prose, painting skills etc. Throwing in a smorgasbord of christian, freudian, psychological, etc. themes and symbolism all into one pot to try to make your work look like its filled with some kind of mysterious, greater-than-our-world meaning isn't a recipe for literary and imaginative excellence.
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
I actually watched the original nge anime series up to the 18th or 19th episode or so. It was really great up to that. Like I said, NGE is a good anime overall. But I just facepalm when anime fans treat it like its some kind of wonder of the planet because of all the "thematic" elements stuffed into it. You're just falling for the clever schemes the producers engineered to attract more viewers.
you should put the angelic days manga(or iron maiden) on the front page. It's my favorite NGE story, simply because it's everything that NGE is not.
As for the impact of the original, I think NGE overall had a strongly negative impact on the genre and japanese animation on a whole. It's definitely unfair to say that NGE revolutionized the medium, changing anime from cutesy cartoons to potential works of art. Just the year prior to NGE, anime gave us some of the most inspired cartoons that WERE works of art(like Ghost in the Shell or Gundam Wing or any Studio Ghibli shit) which were deeper then those 80s anime cartoons(like astroboy). Even the character trinity archetype is a direct ripoff of tenchi muyo(asuka = ryoko, rei = ayeka, and shinji = tenchi). The original NGE story was honestly nothing unique in terms of animation or story telling, it only became interesting b/c its creator went off the deep end, and decided to hand everyone who watched the show a giant shit sandwich, in which everyone to his surprise ate with great enthusiasm. A much better anime from the same creator(at a more stable period in his life) is Kare Kano. Now that is a show that is actually good because it's good, not b/c of a nervous breakdown.
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
Well personally, if NGE struck me down as a geniality was because I was expecting nothing more than a typical japanese show about people who ride robots destroying evil aliens.
But then you learn that the evas are actually somewhat alive by themselves, and can act without a pilot. Then Toji gets squashed by Sinji's own eva and the freaking buildings are splashed with blood. Then Kaworu appears, and you have that incredible scene with Beethoven playing in the background.
And then the OVAs. People dying because of Shinji's cowardice; that incredibly awesome scene of Asuka fighting against tenths of evas with only 30 seconds of battery left. And everything concludes with an acid-trip of worlds being eaten and angels and seas of blood. Such an ending I'd never seen before, and I've never seen again anywhere (as much as I was rooting for something like that to properly end Lost for instance).
So I can more or less understand you when you say that Eva is overrated, and it probably is; but I also think you are being incredibly unfair when you dismiss it for being something no different than power rangers. The base premise of the show might be power rangers, but it is precisely what they build on top of that that made this show as incredible as it is.
You're making a stretch with what I wrote. NGE is similar to lady gaga in the sense that they are both part of the modernism/post-modernism shit that people today call art. Things become artistic or literary masterpieces because the people making them are naturally talented with storytelling, prose, painting skills etc. Throwing in a smorgasbord of christian, freudian, psychological, etc. themes and symbolism all into one pot to try to make your work look like its filled with some kind of mysterious, greater-than-our-world meaning isn't a recipe for literary and imaginative excellence.
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
I actually watched the original nge anime series up to the 18th or 19th episode or so. It was really great up to that. Like I said, NGE is a good anime overall. But I just facepalm when anime fans treat it like its some kind of wonder of the planet because of all the "thematic" elements stuffed into it. You're just falling for the clever schemes the producers engineered to attract more viewers.
If you think the original series was only about 14-year-olds piloting mecha to save the world from aliens, you need to watch the last few episodes and End of Evangelion if you haven't yet. (probably should skip 25 and 26 till after EoE like the guide says since it's not the ending Anno wanted) There is a voice in the back of my head that still warns me all the philosophizing is entirely BS and used strictly to garner attention, but as I mentioned, after seeing 2.22, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm finally starting to appreciate what Anno and Gainax tried to do with the characters but didn't; whether it was lack of opportunity or creativity is up for debate.
For example, I can better understand Shinji's mentality, and I finally am able to see how I can relate to Asuka personally. As an artistically-dense, technically-minded individual, I couldn't appreciate the abstract concepts of the series until the producer finally hashed them out and said them explicitly enough for me to comprehend over the course of three additional movies (EoE, 1.11, and 2.22).
At the end of the day, I agree that Eva could have been made more like a Gundam-style anime, or more satirical such as Guren Lagann. I also concur that all the hype brought upon by the fanboys and -girls is fairly excessive and exalting it as a pinnacle of art makes me shake my head in wonder as much as yourself. (I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy; I'm only trying to defend its importance) But despite all its controversy, Eva does make one think, whether the producers intended it to or not, and I'd argue the concepts are still worth discussing anyways.
Edit: @Ender: You might want to spoiler a good portion of your post. You reveal a fair amount of late-in-the-series material.
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
Well personally, if NGE struck me down as a geniality was because I was expecting nothing more than a typical japanese show about people who ride robots destroying evil aliens.
But then you learn that the evas are actually somewhat alive by themselves, and can act without a pilot. Then Toji gets squashed by Sinji's own eva and the freaking buildings are splashed with blood. Then Kaworu appears, and you have that incredible scene with Beethoven playing in the background.
And then the OVAs. People dying because of Shinji's cowardice; that incredibly awesome scene of Asuka fighting against tenths of evas with only 30 seconds of battery left. And everything concludes with an acid-trip of worlds being eaten and angels and seas of blood. Such an ending I'd never seen before, and I've never seen again anywhere (as much as I was rooting for something like that to properly end Lost for instance).
So I can more or less understand you when you say that Eva is overrated, and it probably is; but I also think you are being incredibly unfair when you dismiss it for being something no different than power rangers. The base premise of the show might be power rangers, but it is precisely what they build on top of that that made this show as incredible as it is.
I feel the same. Maybe its because I was 14 when I watched NGE but I had never seen so much mindfuck and violence before. Well its not on a berserk level where I was depressed for 3 days straight after the anime ending (thank god there is the manga) but I will probably never forget NGE and that is a sucess in my opinion.
When I was watching Evangelion for the first time when I was a kid in middle school (my dad rented out DVDs not knowing what Evangelion was), this scene left me wide eyed in my bed as I tried to sleep
The scene where Rei's Eva bangs it's head against a wall and tries to kill Gendo was intense enough, but after this scene I expected further episodes to be as equally scary and brutal. They were far more violent than I could have ever anticipated.
Read through the last couple of posts. What on earth...
On April 28 2013 05:54 white_horse wrote: If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
This is the worst abuse of logic I've seen since I've last looked in the US Politics thread. If you can make the same argument for pretty much everything, you don't have an argument unless you want to apply it to everything. And you know it's BS...but you still think it's a good point ><
I mean, really, you could write a similar paragraph on Citizen Kane and it would make just as much sense in context.
...actually, looking through this again, the "bare core" argument isn't just wrong, it's factually inaccurate. The robots are not robots, the "aliens" are not evil, and nobody is trying to destroy earth. If "bare bones" meant "changing huge chunks of plot-relevant content", then yes, you have successfully captured the "bare bones" of the story.
On April 28 2013 03:33 Blargh wrote: Wait, did white_horse compare NGE to Lady Gaga?
Also, funny cLAN compared NGE to the Bible ^_^. Surely there aren't similarities between the Bible and NGE!
You're making a stretch with what I wrote. NGE is similar to lady gaga in the sense that they are both part of the modernism/post-modernism shit that people today call art. Things become artistic or literary masterpieces because the people making them are naturally talented with storytelling, prose, painting skills etc. Throwing in a smorgasbord of christian, freudian, psychological, etc. themes and symbolism all into one pot to try to make your work look like its filled with some kind of mysterious, greater-than-our-world meaning isn't a recipe for literary and imaginative excellence.
If you strip nge down to its bare core, its a story of a specially chosen group of young people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens that are trying to destroy earth. That makes nge no different than power rangers. Ok. What I just wrote was very harsh since there is no such work on this planet that isn't related to or influenced by a previous work. You can make the same arguments for pretty much everything. But you get my point. They could have made a great series with nge without all the extraneous BS and still have a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about.
I actually watched the original nge anime series up to the 18th or 19th episode or so. It was really great up to that. Like I said, NGE is a good anime overall. But I just facepalm when anime fans treat it like its some kind of wonder of the planet because of all the "thematic" elements stuffed into it. You're just falling for the clever schemes the producers engineered to attract more viewers.
This is the worst abuse of logic I've seen since I've last looked in the US Politics thread. If you can make the same argument for pretty much everything, you don't have an argument unless you want to apply it to everything. And you know it's BS...but you still think it's a good point ><
I mean, really, you could write a similar paragraph on Citizen Kane and it would make just as much sense in context.
...actually, looking through this again, the "bare core" argument isn't just wrong, it's factually inaccurate. The robots are not robots, the "aliens" are not evil, and nobody is trying to destroy earth. If "bare bones" meant "changing huge chunks of plot-relevant content", then yes, you have successfully captured the "bare bones" of the story.
Exactly. Even if he was going for the analogy in a metaphorical sense, it would still be wrong though. The plot isn't about a people who ride robots to defeat evil aliens. The warring between evas and the angels are merely a backdrop, the plot itself is about growing up; every single character in the series, minor or major, has their own flaws that they have to learn to deal with but don't want to face. The main plot threads actually have nothing to do with giant robots at all, hence why it is a deconstruction of giant robot shows, an anti-mecha anime.
And although there is a lot of "extraneous BS" within the show, completely writing it off due to that is also a fallacy because there actually is some "literary and imaginative excellence" lurking behind it. The show certainly has its flaws, but even though there are a lot of random thematic elements touched on without much exploration, almost to a fault(which honestly many great works have some degree of unexplored thematic elements thrown in like that simply to touch on a theme which doesn't actually contribute much besides mood), that's no reason to eschew any analysis of it whatsoever. The idea that a similar paragraph could be written about Citizen Kane with that logic is quite poignant; just because every Tennessee Williams play may touch upon alcoholism, fighting between father and offspring, or homosexuality, through undertones which merely touch on a theme without exploring it and don't actually contribute anything to the plot doesn't mean they are automatically terrible works, or for a more current pop culture reference, robocop wouldn't really have been a better movie if the extraneous bs of religious undertones of robocop as an american jesus were removed and it were more focused on being an action flick.
Of course, when a person giving their opinion on a work of art focusing on this particular motif(growing up) stops before what is arguably the most important part of the plot (learning how to deal with the problems they don't want to face which were set up previously), thus being unaware of the climax and resolution of that theme, they probably aren't the most qualified to speak about whether said theme was effective in creating "a rich work with a lot of philosophical meaning, etc. in it for people to enjoy debating about. "
On April 28 2013 16:13 Ushio wrote: So when is 4.0 going to come out exactly?
Expect at least one year before the film is in Japanese theaters, then expect at least 4 months for a cam rip to make its way on the internet and then a year after that before the blue ray is for sale.
On April 28 2013 16:13 Ushio wrote: So when is 4.0 going to come out exactly?
Expect at least one year before the film is in Japanese theaters, then expect at least 4 months for a cam rip to make its way on the internet and then a year after that before the blue ray is for sale.
The time gap between 2.0 and 3.0 was 3 years. If it's the same for 4.0 it would really suck. At least 2.0 felt somewhat like a complete movie while 3.0 has so many questions that need answering and had a very unsatisfying ending.
3.0 was just terrible. Characterization was out the window in favor of creating speculation and questions. I highly doubt Anno will wrap anything up in the next movie. He'll create something purely to stoke speculation for the next 10 years, he'll write the characters as to be unlikeable except by those who are willing to fill in all the gaps in writing by themselves etc etc.
Many disappointing things in this movie. But probably Kawaru probably takes the cake. Shinji not showing development that was hinted at the end of 2.0 and any difference in Rei is a close second and third.
On April 29 2013 02:19 Xahhk wrote: 3.0 was just terrible. Characterization was out the window in favor of creating speculation and questions. I highly doubt Anno will wrap anything up in the next movie. He'll create something purely to stoke speculation for the next 10 years, he'll write the characters as to be unlikeable except by those who are willing to fill in all the gaps in writing by themselves etc etc.
Many disappointing things in this movie. But probably Kawaru probably takes the cake. Shinji not showing development that was hinted at the end of 2.0 and any difference in Rei is a close second and third.
Eva fans mad that you got no character development when you got some in the last two Characters dont have to develop. This movie seem to go through the coarse of just a few days lets be realistic here. Out of all the legit complaints about the movie I find the character development funniest to hear
Did Shinji get teleported to an alternate universe or something? How long has it been since the ending of 2.0, because the new NERV base and all the bridge bunnies are completely different.
Wow, Fuyutuski telling Shinji the truth about Rei and his mother, really interested to see how this develops since he never learned the complete truth in the original series.
On April 29 2013 19:24 Gamegene wrote: Watching it right now and: + Show Spoiler +
Did Shinji get teleported to an alternate universe or something? How long has it been since the ending of 2.0, because the new NERV base and all the bridge bunnies are completely different.
The beginning was kind of slow and too much technobabble for my taste. Middle part was quite interesting, end was intense. It's nice to see a different take on the story. It was quite confusing at times, but then again this is Eva. Looking forward to the last movie.
Loved the hallucination sequence once Shinji realizes the damage that he has inflicted upon humanity and Earth, for apparently no gain. Not very satisfied with how the angels were defeated in this continuity.
Rei halluncinating seeing the original Rei. Shinji knowing the truth about his mother and Rei. Mari still not having revealed her background, why she was able to pilot 02, what her secret mission was when she was introduced in 2.0. Unit 01 being able to be activated by Shinji now that the collar has been destroyed. SEELE not showing their hand yet. Misato and her faction, and the massive airship. The pilots traveling the Red Earth. Kaworou being "aware" of Shinji from the original continuity, ties between Rebuild and the original not having been revealed yet. The fake 01s in the preview. Shinji's mother's name is Ayanami Yui, NOT Ikari Yui in the original (rebuild Gendo is still Ikari...!)
We're going to see how Rebuild interprets End Of Evangelion with all these new twists.
Kind of wanted some of these plot points to be addressed more directly in 3.0, but oh well.
I am incredibly mad that the "trailer" for 3.00 at the end of 2.22 was just them telling us what happened between the two movies instead of any of it actually happening.
On April 29 2013 21:55 RockIronrod wrote: I am incredibly mad that the "trailer" for 3.00 at the end of 2.22 was just them telling us what happened between the two movies instead of any of it actually happening.
Apparently 90% of the script was thrown out at one point by the writers. A popular theory is that they were "inspired" by the chaos of the Japanese earthquake and nuclear meltdown crisis in 2011.
I just rewatched the 3.00 trailer before watching the movie and i didn't remember Misato saying " I'll give you plenty more fan service next time,too!" LOL
On April 29 2013 02:19 Xahhk wrote: 3.0 was just terrible. Characterization was out the window in favor of creating speculation and questions. I highly doubt Anno will wrap anything up in the next movie. He'll create something purely to stoke speculation for the next 10 years, he'll write the characters as to be unlikeable except by those who are willing to fill in all the gaps in writing by themselves etc etc.
Many disappointing things in this movie. But probably Kawaru probably takes the cake. Shinji not showing development that was hinted at the end of 2.0 and any difference in Rei is a close second and third.
i kind of agree with this ... but at the same time i understand that "this" movie, that is, the metaphysical-mindfucking-whatthehelljusthapened type of episode we know from the series, was inevitable.
I loved the original Evangelion, both its initial ending but also its redo. I've been waiting for the New version to finish all 4 parts so I can watch it all at once. It is one of the most complicated and deep storylines I've ever read. I even gave a paper at an academic conference once connecting The End of Evangelion to various psychoanalytic (Lacan) theories.
On April 29 2013 20:05 EleanorRIgby wrote: i prefer gundam wing, pilots are way more interesting.
I'm assuming also substantially older and significantly less insane?
On April 29 2013 22:40 Spaiku wrote: I just rewatched the 3.00 trailer before watching the movie and i didn't remember Misato saying " I'll give you plenty more fan service next time,too!" LOL
It was at the end of 2.22 after the credits as well. Though I thought that was Asuka who said it, haha!
On April 29 2013 22:40 Spaiku wrote: I just rewatched the 3.00 trailer before watching the movie and i didn't remember Misato saying " I'll give you plenty more fan service next time,too!" LOL
It was at the end of 2.22 after the credits as well. Though I thought that was Asuka who said it, haha!
Nah, that's Misato's job. She said it in the episode previews of the tv show as well.
On April 29 2013 22:40 Spaiku wrote: I just rewatched the 3.00 trailer before watching the movie and i didn't remember Misato saying " I'll give you plenty more fan service next time,too!" LOL
It was at the end of 2.22 after the credits as well. Though I thought that was Asuka who said it, haha!
Nah, that's Misato's job. She said it in the episode previews of the tv show as well.
No, that makes sense, I get it. I actually just realized she said something similar to that to Shinji in EoE. Along the lines of "We'll do the rest later, okay?"
Lol. Anno, you troll and your recurring jokes. X-D
On April 29 2013 22:54 thirtyapm wrote: just watched it, it was fkn awesome.
i'm so lost right now though.
Pretty much this :O
The original NGE was the first anime series I watched a few years ago. I only started to watch a lot of anime this school year. Watching 3.0 reminded me that around 25 series later, NGE is still one of the weirdest and craziest but most amazing things I've seen.
I'm afraid Evangelion: 3.0 is the true End of Evangelion. (It was so bad that it ruined Evangelion forever)
It wasn't that bad, but it certainly wasn't great. Kaworu best character (as he was originally) and Rei second best character + Show Spoiler +
For not being an obnoxious character like Asuka, Mari, everyone else except Kaworu
I do wonder what they will do with the fourth one, now. This one didn't flow at all with the last one. Hell, it almost makes more sense that THIS was the fourth one.
Wait, where are those scenes from? I don't remember the Rei one with mini-Rei's behind her, nor the Mari one where it looks like she's in the same room as Rei.
I don't appreciate the introduction of worthless new characters. It was nice to see Toji's sister though.
The series which spanned 25 episodes was ample time, enough for us to create a bond to all the main characters and feel immersed in their interactions, Rei-Shinji, Asuka-Shinji, Misato-Shinji.. etc.. and it also contained a progression. You started off thinking it was a MECHA-NEO-TOKYO-APOCALYPTIC-KAWAII anime, mindless and then you as you gradually start liking it and the characters, BAM, twists, turns and unexpected non-explicit sex scenes which I accidentally watched with my mother as a 14 year old. (Off topic)
But to create such a dialogue within a 1 and a half hr movie is impossible and you have to appreciate 3.0 for what it is, which is a retelling of the ending of Evangelion (how many have there been?). Don't think there can ever be a "perfect" ending and Hideaki or the fans of the show will NEVER be satisfied with an ending since it needs to be relevant to the state of mind you're in at the time and for us, it isn't back in the state we were at in late 1990's or early 2000s.
It's like Peter Jackson's version of the Hobbit, it seems like it's a bit out dated and he was trying to create another installment of LOTR, which he can't because it's past innovation and mystique.
Dunno if this thread is bumped because of the new Movie trailer, but someone I mentioned it to mentioned it was similar to NGE (which I have no idea about).
On May 01 2013 15:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: Dunno if this thread is bumped because of the new Movie trailer, but someone I mentioned it to mentioned it was similar to NGE (which I have no idea about).
This is probably the closest thing we'll get to an NGE big budget movie. Giant robots controlled by the pilots stimuli(?)/synchronization, pale skinny short haired and seemingly emotionless Japanese girl, apocalyptic abominations from beyond trying to end humanity, and just the massive SCALE of Pacific Rim. I would love to see a size comparison to the michael bay Transformers. plugsuits
2deep4u probably wouldn't translate well in live action, so pretty excited for this film.
3.33 just reminded that the reason I watch Eva is for all the weird ass stuff in it. It felt like it 3 hours long instead of 1.5 and I'm it did cause it was great.
On May 01 2013 15:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: Dunno if this thread is bumped because of the new Movie trailer, but someone I mentioned it to mentioned it was similar to NGE (which I have no idea about).
The first ads I saw for that in theaters made me immediately think of Eva. It looks too cheesy for me to watch, to be honest, but if it turns out to be worth the watch, I might wait till it arrives at RedBox.
Wait, where are those scenes from? I don't remember the Rei one with mini-Rei's behind her, nor the Mari one where it looks like she's in the same room as Rei.
And I don't get it either lol
It's from 2.22 and its 3.0 preview. Basically those are not random signs but part of a way to contain anything angel-related.
I don't know about you guys but with 3.33 I finally felt watching a real movie where I could related to the main character. Shinji doesn't have a clue about what's going on and don't understand anything that happened, just like the spectator. From this point of view I felt the decision he took were justified.... + Show Spoiler +
I think the 3.33 was missing something. There wasn't really any wow moment or any good fight. In the NGE or maybe some movies there was a scene where Asuka was fighting with severals EVAs?. One of the best fights in evangelion, but nothing here . Also I think Kaworu was introduced in original series better. And all story made more sense and progressed better.
On May 01 2013 22:24 Tuczniak wrote: I think the 3.33 was missing something. There wasn't really any wow moment or any good fight. In the NGE or maybe some movies there was a scene where Asuka was fighting with severals EVAs?. One of the best fights in evangelion, but nothing here . Also I think Kaworu was introduced in original series better. And all story made more sense and progressed better.
I haven't seen 3.33 yet, but over the course of 1.11 and 2.22, it seems like Anno is trying to hype up Kaworu into someone far more important than he was in the series, where he showed up for, like, the last couple of episodes. It's like Anno is trying to say something by giving him early cameos, but they don't really make any sense to me; they as though they were forced into certain scenes where they didn't need to be. + Show Spoiler +
Gendo and Fuyutsuki circling the moon in 2.22 is the only example that comes to mind where dropping him in wasn't completely pointless, in my opinion.+ Show Spoiler +
And obviously at the very end of the same film where he practices his javelin-ing skills on Shinji, lol.
On May 01 2013 22:24 Tuczniak wrote: I think the 3.33 was missing something. There wasn't really any wow moment or any good fight. In the NGE or maybe some movies there was a scene where Asuka was fighting with severals EVAs?. One of the best fights in evangelion, but nothing here . Also I think Kaworu was introduced in original series better. And all story made more sense and progressed better.
I haven't seen 3.33 yet, but over the course of 1.11 and 2.22, it seems like Anno is trying to hype up Kaworu into someone far more important than he was in the series, where he showed up for, like, the last couple of episodes. It's like Anno is trying to say something by giving him early cameos, but they don't really make any sense to me; they as though they were forced into certain scenes where they didn't need to be. + Show Spoiler +
Gendo and Fuyutsuki circling the moon in 2.22 is the only example that comes to mind where dropping him in wasn't completely pointless, in my opinion.+ Show Spoiler +
And obviously at the very end of the same film where he practices his javelin-ing skills on Shinji, lol.
When Kaworu first appeared in NGE, everyone went apeshit because here appears this random character who, in two episodes, manages to have a bigger emotional impact on Shinji than pretty much everyone else combined, barring Gendo. A more gradual introduction/build-up of Kaworu actually makes some sense.
On May 01 2013 22:24 Tuczniak wrote: I think the 3.33 was missing something. There wasn't really any wow moment or any good fight. In the NGE or maybe some movies there was a scene where Asuka was fighting with severals EVAs?. One of the best fights in evangelion, but nothing here . Also I think Kaworu was introduced in original series better. And all story made more sense and progressed better.
I haven't seen 3.33 yet, but over the course of 1.11 and 2.22, it seems like Anno is trying to hype up Kaworu into someone far more important than he was in the series, where he showed up for, like, the last couple of episodes. It's like Anno is trying to say something by giving him early cameos, but they don't really make any sense to me; they as though they were forced into certain scenes where they didn't need to be. + Show Spoiler +
Gendo and Fuyutsuki circling the moon in 2.22 is the only example that comes to mind where dropping him in wasn't completely pointless, in my opinion.+ Show Spoiler +
And obviously at the very end of the same film where he practices his javelin-ing skills on Shinji, lol.
When Kaworu first appeared in NGE, everyone went apeshit because here appears this random character who, in two episodes, manages to have a bigger emotional impact on Shinji than pretty much everyone else combined, barring Gendo. A more gradual introduction/build-up of Kaworu actually makes some sense.
theres no arguement that pretty much every plot point was either rushed or not even explained properly in 3.33.
but coming from the series, everything is 'explained' later, so im hoping for all that in 4.44
On May 01 2013 22:24 Tuczniak wrote: I think the 3.33 was missing something. There wasn't really any wow moment or any good fight. In the NGE or maybe some movies there was a scene where Asuka was fighting with severals EVAs?. One of the best fights in evangelion, but nothing here . Also I think Kaworu was introduced in original series better. And all story made more sense and progressed better.
I haven't seen 3.33 yet, but over the course of 1.11 and 2.22, it seems like Anno is trying to hype up Kaworu into someone far more important than he was in the series, where he showed up for, like, the last couple of episodes. It's like Anno is trying to say something by giving him early cameos, but they don't really make any sense to me; they as though they were forced into certain scenes where they didn't need to be. + Show Spoiler +
Gendo and Fuyutsuki circling the moon in 2.22 is the only example that comes to mind where dropping him in wasn't completely pointless, in my opinion.+ Show Spoiler +
And obviously at the very end of the same film where he practices his javelin-ing skills on Shinji, lol.
When Kaworu first appeared in NGE, everyone went apeshit because here appears this random character who, in two episodes, manages to have a bigger emotional impact on Shinji than pretty much everyone else combined, barring Gendo. A more gradual introduction/build-up of Kaworu actually makes some sense.
Yeah, but they show pretty much nothing of Kaworu. For example, + Show Spoiler +
he talks to himself (or whatever else he's talking to) a little in 1.11, and takes all of 2.22 to get his gear on and get off the moon
.
It sounds like he did a ton more stuff in 3.33, which, in my opinion, is the better way to go about introducing him as a character. It just seemed like mediocre "fanservice" in the first two films. If they want to make him more of a main character, they should have his appearances have some meaning behind them, or give him significantly more screen time.
On May 02 2013 08:32 Chemist391 wrote: When Kaworu first appeared in NGE, everyone went apeshit because here appears this random character who, in two episodes, manages to have a bigger emotional impact on Shinji than pretty much everyone else combined, barring Gendo. A more gradual introduction/build-up of Kaworu actually makes some sense.
It was a pretty cruel joke played on Shinji in my opinion.
Kaworu was the one person he was able to open up to and be comfortable around, after his dysfunctional family has completely fallen apart (Asuka trying to commiting suicide and now comatose, finding out Rei was manufactured and now being replaced with a new doll, Misato losing Kaji and almost starting a freudian relationship). Shinji even loved him.
And then he finds out he's an Angel. And then he has to kill him before he starts the apocalypse. And then he has to kill him with his own bare hands.
On May 02 2013 08:32 Chemist391 wrote: When Kaworu first appeared in NGE, everyone went apeshit because here appears this random character who, in two episodes, manages to have a bigger emotional impact on Shinji than pretty much everyone else combined, barring Gendo. A more gradual introduction/build-up of Kaworu actually makes some sense.
Overall pretty good, if very different. Totally not what I was expecting, but eh, that's perhaps a good thing.
The biggest jarring thing was the character designs for the new ones added and some of the new visual designs. The ship didn't really scream Evangelion to me, and particularly the two new bridge crew felt like gurren-lagaan characters, not evangelion characters. Evangelion characters have always been drawn with very sharp, narrow features, these guys were nothing like that and it jarred.
the 'curse of eva' thing seemed a bit forced- oh-hey let's keep the critical characters as their nubile teenage selves through DEM. I would have paid good cashmoney to see an adult asuka or rei dealing with the shit they are. Other than that I largely like the way they develop the existing cast. It's kind of wierd to see Maya acting all badass tho.
Overall pretty good, if very different. Totally not what I was expecting, but eh, that's perhaps a good thing.
The biggest jarring thing was the character designs for the new ones added and some of the new visual designs. The ship didn't really scream Evangelion to me, and particularly the two new bridge crew felt like gurren-lagaan characters, not evangelion characters. Evangelion characters have always been drawn with very sharp, narrow features, these guys were nothing like that and it jarred.
the 'curse of eva' thing seemed a bit forced- oh-hey let's keep the critical characters as their nubile teenage selves through DEM. I would have paid good cashmoney to see an adult asuka or rei dealing with the shit they are. Other than that I largely like the way they develop the existing cast. It's kind of wierd to see Maya acting all badass tho.
The characters do not really make any sense and the development is very inconsistent with the previous two movies. Also, it's very unlikely you would find Rei as a grown adult because well, she's sort of just a disposable tool, so she gets disposed quite a bit. I think the Kaworu-related content was good though. Except for when Shinji went full retard at the end. Why did Shinji go full retard? And what the fuck Gendo.
As for character design, I thought it was alright except Misato. She looks a bit silly coming from what we all know her as. The whole 14 year skip was a rather poor idea since it caused there to be this obnoxious illogical gap between shit that happens. One year would have much more sense... Unless they really like 14 and it all comes together in the last movie...
I liked how they subverted expectations , i mean , they couldve just taken Shinji back to NERV and continue fighting the remaining Angels from the original series.
The 14 year time skip , third impact and this civil war thing are a good idea, but i hated Kaworu in the movie. His and Shinjis scenes were good , but its just that the entire movie was about that. came at the expense of all other characters. I mean , Kaworu was in 1 ONE episode of the original series.
and Trivia: when Fuyutsuki and Shinji play Shogi , Fuyutsuki says "you lose in 31 moves" 31 Minutes later in the movie Kaworu dies.
The characters do not really make any sense and the development is very inconsistent with the previous two movies. Also, it's very unlikely you would find Rei as a grown adult because well, she's sort of just a disposable tool, so she gets disposed quite a bit. I think the Kaworu-related content was good though. Except for when Shinji went full retard at the end. Why did Shinji go full retard? And what the fuck Gendo.
As for character design, I thought it was alright except Misato. She looks a bit silly coming from what we all know her as. The whole 14 year skip was a rather poor idea since it caused there to be this obnoxious illogical gap between shit that happens. One year would have much more sense... Unless they really like 14 and it all comes together in the last movie...
I sorta agree. I like the idea that Misato is trying to be icebitch queen of the coldhearts for great vengeance and failing horribly because it's just not her. I think her visual redo was a bit overdone, again kind of lagaanish. the cap and glasses outfit just doesn't really make any sense- unless they plan on some dramatic reveal where half her face got blown off or something next movie. On the other hand what they did with ritsuko is brilliant.
I just like the idea of having the eva kids grown up. I think it's something that a lot of fans secretly lust for and it would be a brilliant thing to do. They've essentially been these ageless adolescent paragons of unchanging angst and disfunction for generations of watchers. Taking that and subverting it could be one of the most powerful developments of the IP Anno could do. I don't mean make them resolve their difficulties, but take them to the next stage. Plus it would make the endless and even more ridiculous sexualisation and innuendo a little less creepy, given it looks like that is no longer a serious part of the narrative like it was in the original series and EOE.
As an aside, there's still a vague chance this may happen. since 14 years have passed assuming the original rei did survive, she'll be old enough to be yukish. An adult rei turning up in the 4th movie would be an interesting plot twist. Sadly I think it's pretty heavily lampshaded that she's ageless as well and stuck in an amniotic tube somewhere at nerv HQ.
I agree that the kaworu stuff was good. Again, I think it was a bit heavy handed on the ship-service (they seem determined to at least provide some kind of shipbait for every single character pairing except pennpenn- X, which I am seriously dissapointed by XD.) and a little rushed, but it was quite well done otherwise. The explosive collar in particular was a lovely touch of horror for folks who've seen the trope before.
I sorta agree. I like the idea that Misato is trying to be icebitch queen of the coldhearts for great vengeance and failing horribly because it's just not her. I think her visual redo was a bit overdone, again kind of lagaanish. the cap and glasses outfit just doesn't really make any sense- unless they plan on some dramatic reveal where half her face got blown off or something next movie. On the other hand what they did with ritsuko is brilliant.
On one hand, she's a hypocrite for encouraging Shinji to save Rei and then treating him so coldly after he was essentially in a coma for 14 years and then strapping a bomb on his neck. On the other hand, she's had to lead the last survivors of third impact for all that time against NERV and the last Angels all thanks to the consequences of Shinji's actions (on top of hers).
It's important to also remember that it was people like Shinji, and herself that caused the second impact that killed her father and left her traumatized and mute for most of her childhood. The fact that she hesitates, or chooses not to kill Shinji when ReiQ breaks him out of the ship, despite knowing the threat he poses to the survivors, shows that she wasn't completely heartless.
i dont understand the part with the 2 spears (longinus starts 4th impact but they are looking for cassius? why are there 2 longinus spears in the first place?)
and unit 6 being there at all...and why it becomes an angel @.@
is there any site that has a accurate analysis cuz honestly wtf
OMFG, i just read the last chapter of the manga. My EVA journey started from reading the manga back in 1995 iirc and now it ended in 2013 so i am actually more of a Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's fan than Hideaki Anno's. So much memories and so much love of EVA and now even Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's EVA also come to an end.
in the last chapter, FOREVER LOVE REI!!! But it was a good ending, simple, sweet and warm, i love it. Thank you Yoshiyuki Sadamoto for your good work (ye there was a time that i cursed him for not drawing the manga, 14books in 18years lol). Now finally i will get have every books of EVA on my book shelf soon.
at minute 32:25 of 1.11 , we see unit 0 chained down after having berserked with rei inside.
an entry plug appears to be partially inserted however, with a cross stick out the top of it.
the entry plug was menna be fully ejected, since gendo needed to be able to access it to open it and burn his hands.
however i guess it still makes sense in eva logic, that they might have inserted a dummy plug to begin repairs on it, with a lance on the top or just a cross-like radar
On July 28 2013 05:38 FFGenerations wrote: any experts answer this?
at minute 32:25 of 1.11 , we see unit 0 chained down after having berserked with rei inside.
an entry plug appears to be partially inserted however, with a cross stick out the top of it.
the entry plug was menna be fully ejected, since gendo needed to be able to access it to open it and burn his hands.
however i guess it still makes sense in eva logic, that they might have inserted a dummy plug to begin repairs on it, with a lance on the top or just a cross-like radar
yes, dummy plug added that just for show nothing to read into
Folks on Amazon are saying that 3.33 will be dubbed by Funimation and released internationally sometime in February. I managed to watch it myself and have a couple thoughts on it.
Kaworu's a great character in my opinion, now that they've fleshed him out. A shame Mari just seems like a filler character in this one. :-\
If you're an EVA fan, you will probably still like this, despite it being so different. It's an "alternate universe" thing in relation to the series/EOE. 3.33 is still incredibly trippy, but the story is coherent enough to enjoy and consider. Unlike most of y'all that have seen it, I can envision an ending to this in 4.0. Gendo's still got some beef with humanity even though SEELE is gone.
Movie's also a visual treat. Anno's definitely spending his budget on super-showy affects that awe and stupefy. :->
Just finished marathon watching the series and 2nd(?) movie, End of Evangelion. I'm not an avid anime watcher this being the first "adult"anime series I watch, not knowing anything about it going into it I was caught off guard how fucking incredible this show is.
If I had known before how incredibly fucked up the show was (in the best way possible) I doubt I would have watched it. Having to think all the way through AND the two endings.. adding up a clusterfuck for me personally since I thought I had understood the ending but watching the movie it turned everything upside down.
Going to start with the movies soon enough but nor surprisingly my head needs to take a break.
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