EPTTeenage Alien Ninja Turtles - Page 22
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
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Littlemuff
United Kingdom301 Posts
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 03 2012 11:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: What made all of these properties "work in the first place" is that it was a unique, random concept that kids growing up in the 90's would think was cool. TMNT is about turtles that are ninjas. Transformers is about cars that turn into robots. I loved Transformers, TMNT and Dragon Ball Z when I was younger too, and I still enjoy the franchises. But I'm not deluded about the "roots" of the property...or even pretending that there's something to "respect". I watched Beast Wars too, and it's easily my favourite Transformers series. But, beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is campy. Even the third season, which was by far the most serious, had some absolutely ridiculous gags. If that were true, then GoBots, Mask, and Centurians would have been big properties too, rather than the also-rans that they are. The children of the 80s and 90s weren't idiots; they picked the shows that were, on some level, better than their contemporaries. TMNT wasn't big just because it was about turtles who were ninja. There were elements of the storytelling that were compelling to the children of the age, beyond the simple concept. Or to put it another way, if you re-did the TMNT show back then with a different writing staff, odds are good that it would have tanked in the first year. Concept alone does not make for a long-lasting show. Concept alone doesn't get people to fondly remember the series two decades after it was released. No, Transformers and TMNT weren't Gargoyles. But the fact that they had "campy" elements and "ridiculous gags" does not mean that there was nothing substantive about the properties. It does not mean that there was nothing to "respect". There was substance to these properties, a core of character and storytelling. It wasn't particularly deep or anything, but there was something real there that a lot of 80s and 90s shows simply didn't have. On September 03 2012 11:23 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm not saying that the franchises can't be enjoyed. I'm saying that you can't possibly critique the new adaptations using a standard that never existed in the first place. Twenty years ago, you were the lowest common denominator...and the new adaptations are as much about drawing in the young people to sell toys as they are about appeasing fans who have grown up. I most certainly can critique new adaptations using a different standard. There are exactly two legitimate (non-financial) reasons to make a franchise reboot: 1) because you have some interesting stories to tell with that property, or 2) because you believe that, while the property may be good, there are elements that could be improved and/or cruft that needs to be removed. BayFormers does neither of these. Transformers Prime proves that you can take the original concept and make it better. That you can do better storytelling while still broadly appealing to people. You don't have to talk down to children to get them on-board. Hell, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic proved this, with a wide appeal even outside of its core demographic. It still has its core demographic, but by using good storytelling and strong characterization, they're able to reach people who would have otherwise balked at a show called "My Little Pony". Let me repeat that because it is worthy of repeating: BayFormers was beaten by MY LITTLE PONY! You don't have to throw away good character and storytelling in order to reach the lowest common denominator. If all the LCD wants is giant robots and big explosions, they're not going to be annoyed if you tell a good story around those things. | ||
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FloKi
1490 Posts
Just found out today the movie is scraped. You lose this time Micheal. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On September 03 2012 22:55 NicolBolas wrote: If that were true, then GoBots, Mask, and Centurians would have been big properties too, rather than the also-rans that they are. The children of the 80s and 90s weren't idiots; they picked the shows that were, on some level, better than their contemporaries. TMNT wasn't big just because it was about turtles who were ninja. There were elements of the storytelling that were compelling to the children of the age, beyond the simple concept. Or to put it another way, if you re-did the TMNT show back then with a different writing staff, odds are good that it would have tanked in the first year. Concept alone does not make for a long-lasting show. Concept alone doesn't get people to fondly remember the series two decades after it was released. No, Transformers and TMNT weren't Gargoyles. But the fact that they had "campy" elements and "ridiculous gags" does not mean that there was nothing substantive about the properties. It does not mean that there was nothing to "respect". There was substance to these properties, a core of character and storytelling. It wasn't particularly deep or anything, but there was something real there that a lot of 80s and 90s shows simply didn't have. I'm fortunate enough to have a TV channel that plays tons of retro cartoons, like Ghostbusters, Batman TAS, Gargoyles,. He-Man and, yes, TMNT and Transformers. There are only a few that actually stand the test of time, and TMNT and Transformers are not in that mix. Yes, there are a few episodes that stand out as being memorable...but I'm rather convinced that those are the only episodes that anyone ever remembers. The vast majority of episodes are about some contrived threat, the Transformers stumbling on things like wizards and Atlantis, things like the Autobots getting shrunken to let a minor side character have a single episode of showtime. TMNT is essentially the same, except worse. I mean, how many people actually remember characters like Tattoo and Wingnut from the cartoon episodes? The success of Transformers and TMNT basically comes down to a good concept, extremely good marketing and reaching critical mass to the point where the figure-heads become iconic. I most certainly can critique new adaptations using a different standard. There are exactly two legitimate (non-financial) reasons to make a franchise reboot: 1) because you have some interesting stories to tell with that property, or 2) because you believe that, while the property may be good, there are elements that could be improved and/or cruft that needs to be removed. BayFormers does neither of these. Transformers Prime proves that you can take the original concept and make it better. That you can do better storytelling while still broadly appealing to people. You don't have to talk down to children to get them on-board. Hell, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic proved this, with a wide appeal even outside of its core demographic. It still has its core demographic, but by using good storytelling and strong characterization, they're able to reach people who would have otherwise balked at a show called "My Little Pony". Let me repeat that because it is worthy of repeating: BayFormers was beaten by MY LITTLE PONY! You don't have to throw away good character and storytelling in order to reach the lowest common denominator. If all the LCD wants is giant robots and big explosions, they're not going to be annoyed if you tell a good story around those things. Once again, I'm not saying that the new adaptations are immune to criticism. I'm saying that people need to stop pretending that the old series were any better. If you want quality adaptations, that's fine. If you want to complain about someone shitting on your childhood...then I suggest actually watching those cartoon series again. | ||
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HotShizz
France710 Posts
On August 01 2012 05:35 sjperera wrote: I don't know if this should be on a different thread or something, but there's a gritty, violent TMNT project named "Dawn of the Ninja" it already has two chapters and is beautiful and extremely violent... for anyone interested in checking it out and supporting the artists, check em out here... there's 53 pages already up  http://dawnoftheninja.com/Home.php I just checked out that website; the art is awesome, dialogue is meh, but overall it just looks great. Looks like it's on the outs though for lack of funding. But hey, not a problem Bay has, eh? Either way, good luck to those guys and thanks for the link. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Kill me now. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
On February 22 2013 19:55 Telcontar wrote: http://www.deadline.com/2013/02/megan-fox-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-cast-michael-ba/ Kill me now. WHY!!! NOOOOO! What an asshat.. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
On February 22 2013 19:55 Telcontar wrote: http://www.deadline.com/2013/02/megan-fox-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-cast-michael-ba/ Kill me now. This is so facepalm.... | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
But I know why Bay did it. Besides the massive ego boost he gets from knowing that he's the reason why Fox still has a career after she called him Hitler, she now has absolutely no artistic power as an actress. Most actors have at least some creative control over their characters, or will at least bring up their own ideas about them to the directory. But not Fox, not now. She must do everything exactly as Bay wants or her career dies. Oh, and he probably gets her on the cheap. So ego stroking, no back-talk, and an inexpensive cast member. A pretty good hat-trick from Bay. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
rewatching that video in the op, hmm yeah how are they gonna work in splinter and the famous artists names  | ||
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TheSwedishFan
Sweden608 Posts
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:42 Shock710 wrote: Maybe he wants her to crash and burn with the movie? due to the grudge thing, i mean its not like he completely missed her comment about him being "hitler" -_- rewatching that video in the op, hmm yeah how are they gonna work in splinter and the famous artists names All the famous artists are aliens too! | ||
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McBengt
Sweden1684 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
![[image loading]](http://cdn1.superherohype.com/assets/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_8033/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_set_photos_8141/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles_20130507_1889087918.jpg?1367990392) Cast includes Megan Fox as April, Mos Def as a black Baxter Stockman, William Fichtner as a white Shredder, Will Arnett, and Whoopi Goldberg. There are no asian actors in the movie and apparently Shredder is some white boy named Colonel Shrader who runs a government military group called The Foot that tries to capture and imprison the turtles. I hope I have further ruined all of your childhoods with this post! | ||
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riotjune
United States3392 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Maxd11
United States680 Posts
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