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On June 20 2012 07:59 Acetone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 07:35 Crazyeyes wrote: As a person who apparently doesn't understand basic physics, I don't see how an earthbender would be able to bend sound.
EDIT: Sound travels through a medium. If it's traveling through water, a waterbender shoudl theoretically be able to bend it. Same goes for earth. I guess that's what you're getting at?
I guess that makes sense. Although thats not really bending the sound itself, which is what this would be. When looked at it from a physics-PoV, that doesnt seem to make much sense to me anymore. But then again, neither does earthbending. Theres no such thing as 'earth.'
I still think soundbending would be the best candidate... nothing else really makes any sense at all. Yes, that's what I was getting at. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bending the sound itself." Sound is just how our eardrums interpret longitudinal waves in a certain range of frequencies (I think the approximate range is between 20 Hz and 20,000 Hz), so the only type of soundbending I can imagine is generating a specific sound by controlling your medium of choice (air, water or earth) at the molecular level and exercising some limited control over the direction of propagation. As far as I'm concerned, that'd be some Grandmaster-level bending. Hmmm, perhaps, if it were really studied and developed, we could hear some musicbending and conversationbending. O.O EDIT: I felt like I should mention that I share you frustration with the idea of earthbending. Really, what ARE they bending? o.O
Earthbending is the geokinetic ability to manipulate earth and rock. What is there to be confused about?
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On June 20 2012 08:08 Belgo wrote: Earthbending is the geokinetic ability to manipulate earth and rock. What is there to be confused about? Nothing. On the surface, it's easily explained and understood, but if you start wondering what exactly is being bent in what we're referring to as "earth" and "rock" (i.e. metals? metallic and/or other inorganic oxides? organics?), things get difficult. Well, impossible, really, as far as I'm concerned. I've wasted more than enough time pondering it already. I think the last discussion about it in this thread was maybe 10-20 pages back, but that's a pretty rough guess, and nothing definitive was really settled, from what I remember of it.
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If you apply real-world physics it makes no sense. Think periodic table of elements. What exactly counts as 'earth' ?
For that matter, is any gas considered 'air' that can be bent?
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On June 20 2012 08:58 Acetone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 08:08 Belgo wrote: Earthbending is the geokinetic ability to manipulate earth and rock. What is there to be confused about? Nothing. On the surface, it's easily explained and understood, but if you start wondering what exactly is being bent in what we're referring to as "earth" and "rock" (i.e. metals? metallic and/or other inorganic oxides? organics?), things get difficult. Well, impossible, really, as far as I'm concerned. I've wasted more than enough time pondering it already. I think the last discussion about it in this thread was maybe 10-20 pages back, but that's a pretty rough guess, and nothing definitive was really settled, from what I remember of it.
I think you are way over thinking it, if *that* is what you are confused about. Remember this is all based on the 4(plus self) classical elements. Don't try to impart scientific knowledge in a very philosophical area, or you will be forever confounded.
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On June 20 2012 09:08 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 08:58 Acetone wrote:On June 20 2012 08:08 Belgo wrote: Earthbending is the geokinetic ability to manipulate earth and rock. What is there to be confused about? Nothing. On the surface, it's easily explained and understood, but if you start wondering what exactly is being bent in what we're referring to as "earth" and "rock" (i.e. metals? metallic and/or other inorganic oxides? organics?), things get difficult. Well, impossible, really, as far as I'm concerned. I've wasted more than enough time pondering it already. I think the last discussion about it in this thread was maybe 10-20 pages back, but that's a pretty rough guess, and nothing definitive was really settled, from what I remember of it. I think you are way over thinking it, if *that* is what you are confused about. Remember this is all based on the 4(plus self) classical elements. Don't try to impart scientific knowledge in a very philosophical area, or you will be forever confounded.
Agreed. After all, we use the periodic table of the elements because it actually makes sense, not those 4 elements, which were thought to be true way back then (nor the chinese elements of fire, water, air, wood, metal)
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On June 20 2012 09:08 Belgo wrote: I think you are way over thinking it, if *that* is what you are confused about. Remember this is all based on the 4(plus self) classical elements. Don't try to impart scientific knowledge in a very philosophical area, or you will be forever confounded. I don't disagree. However, being the engineer that I am, I'm usually unable to keep myself from thinking about things scientifically. 
On June 20 2012 09:02 Crazyeyes wrote: If you apply real-world physics it makes no sense. Think periodic table of elements. What exactly counts as 'earth' ?
For that matter, is any gas considered 'air' that can be bent? If you look at the average composition of the Earth's crust, you'll get an idea for what elements, compounds, and classes of compounds might be considered earthbendable in the Avatar universe. The graph on the right of that page is also helpful, especially for its highlighting of what it calls "rock-forming elements." Your airbending question is another one that I've wondered about myself, and despite the fact that air's composition is much easier to consider than earth's, we really have nothing to go on in terms of what aspects of it in particular (or as you suggested, gases in general) make it airbendable. So airbending and earthbending are somewhat similar in terms of their evasion of a clear understanding of what exactly the bender is controlling. I could (and probably should) lump firebending in with them, but flames and combustion are very complex phenomena, so given the difficulties presented by airbending and earthbending (which are quite simple by comparison), I'll probably never bother considering firebending in a similar fashion.
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On June 20 2012 09:31 Acetone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:08 Belgo wrote: I think you are way over thinking it, if *that* is what you are confused about. Remember this is all based on the 4(plus self) classical elements. Don't try to impart scientific knowledge in a very philosophical area, or you will be forever confounded. I don't disagree. However, being the engineer that I am, I'm usually unable to keep myself from thinking about things scientifically.  Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:02 Crazyeyes wrote: If you apply real-world physics it makes no sense. Think periodic table of elements. What exactly counts as 'earth' ?
For that matter, is any gas considered 'air' that can be bent? If you look at the average composition of the Earth's crust, you'll get an idea for what elements, compounds, and classes of compounds might be considered earthbendable in the Avatar universe. The graph on the right of that page is also helpful, especially for its highlighting of what it calls "rock-forming elements." Your airbending question is another one that I've wondered about myself, and despite the fact that air's composition is much easier to consider than earth's, we really have nothing to go on in terms of what aspects of it in particular (or as you suggested, gases in general) make it airbendable. So airbending and earthbending are somewhat similar in terms of their evasion of a clear understanding of what exactly the bender is controlling. I could (and probably should) lump firebending in with them, but flames and combustion are very complex phenomena, so given the difficulties presented by airbending and earthbending (which are quite simple by comparison), I'll probably never bother considering firebending in a similar fashion.
I think you should just leave this be. The eternal thinker is always trying to find out why the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole. You are coming at very Taoistic principles from probably the most diametrically opposed way.
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On June 20 2012 09:43 Derme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:08 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 08:58 Acetone wrote:On June 20 2012 08:08 Belgo wrote: Earthbending is the geokinetic ability to manipulate earth and rock. What is there to be confused about? Nothing. On the surface, it's easily explained and understood, but if you start wondering what exactly is being bent in what we're referring to as "earth" and "rock" (i.e. metals? metallic and/or other inorganic oxides? organics?), things get difficult. Well, impossible, really, as far as I'm concerned. I've wasted more than enough time pondering it already. I think the last discussion about it in this thread was maybe 10-20 pages back, but that's a pretty rough guess, and nothing definitive was really settled, from what I remember of it. I think you are way over thinking it, if *that* is what you are confused about. Remember this is all based on the 4(plus self) classical elements. Don't try to impart scientific knowledge in a very philosophical area, or you will be forever confounded. The thing about any world involving the supernatural is that the usual laws of physics have to apply at some level for the supernatural-ness to be significant at all. For example, you could hit someone with a rock and the only reason it matters is that the law of momentum still works as it's meant to. The question he seemed to be asking is where to draw the line. I personally am unable to understand how earthbenders can manipulate the earth and all the metallic oxides, metals, non-metals and various other compounds and yet not pure platinum, which is just another element.
That is because, with metalbending, you are not bending the metal itself, but the impurities within.
" During a lecture on chakras, Guru Pathik explained to Aang that metal is merely earth that has been purified and refined. Using her unique ability to "see" through earthbending, Toph is able to perceive the trace amount of "un-purified" crude earth still present in the metal, target it, and utilize it to bend the purified metal itself. The same goes for bloodbending, you are not moving the blood, but the water that is in it. " - http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Metalbending
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+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation?
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On June 20 2012 10:44 kakaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation?
Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson.
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Added Avatar Wiki to the OP.
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On June 20 2012 10:46 Belgo wrote:Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson.
I would assume son though, since he is named after General Iroh
EDIT: Checked the wiki, guess I was wrong =/
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On June 20 2012 13:21 HuggyBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 10:46 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 10:44 kakaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation? Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson. I would assume son though, since he is named after General Iroh EDIT: Checked the wiki, guess I was wrong =/
What are you talking about? You are right http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Iroh_(Legend_of_Korra)
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On June 20 2012 13:27 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 13:21 HuggyBear wrote:On June 20 2012 10:46 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 10:44 kakaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation? Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson. I would assume son though, since he is named after General Iroh EDIT: Checked the wiki, guess I was wrong =/ What are you talking about? You are right http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Iroh_(Legend_of_Korra)
Its in the very first bit of information about 'im that hes Fire Lord Zuko's grandson.
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On June 20 2012 13:27 Belgo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 13:21 HuggyBear wrote:On June 20 2012 10:46 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 10:44 kakaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation? Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson. I would assume son though, since he is named after General Iroh EDIT: Checked the wiki, guess I was wrong =/ What are you talking about? You are right http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Iroh_(Legend_of_Korra) He assumed it was his son. It's his grandson.
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On June 20 2012 13:33 ClysmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 13:27 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 13:21 HuggyBear wrote:On June 20 2012 10:46 Belgo wrote:On June 20 2012 10:44 kakaman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was the general at the end of the last episode part of Fire Nation? Yes. He is Zuko's Grandson. I would assume son though, since he is named after General Iroh EDIT: Checked the wiki, guess I was wrong =/ What are you talking about? You are right http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Iroh_(Legend_of_Korra) He assumed it was his son. It's his grandson.
OH GOD I CAN'T READ FOR SHIT.
If he was his son, he'd probably be the age of Tenzin/bumi/kya
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Unless he had a kid really late. Bu tyeah. That Wiki is amazing. They get info from all corners of the globe.
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I just noticed, if Iroh is Zuko's grandson, what is his son doing? Or is he just ruling as the fire lord xD
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