On February 03 2012 12:38 Sprungjeezy wrote: People shouldn't view Derpy as a retarded pony, but as a clutz pony. I hope they try to make it more clear (assuming that's their intention).
also why does it even matter? we got along just fine before hand calling her derpy, do we have to stop because hasbro is?
Remember how happy the majority was when Derpy got named in canon? Remember the chat overflowing with caps lock messages of joy that bronies got a big shout-out?
The entire situation regarding Derpy Hooves and the possibility of retconning the name and removing any future mention of her (if there even was heh) really bums me out.
Yes I know it is not the biggest deal and i'm not trying to say that it is, but I was a very happy guy when they gave the community such a shout out and I was not looking for anything of the sort since I understand we are not the target audience by a long shot, most importantly I thought it was really well done and fitted the episode very well.
I'm not sure what an effect it would have on the studios desire to do any similar sort of thing in the future, but honestly i'm not too worried about that since while such things are very awesome to me, they are just a lovely bonus that for the most part I think people enjoy since they are quite subtle for the most part, like the Berry Punch zoom in and Doctor Whooves last episode, if that was not just a coincidence which Is pretty doubtful, and could not be construed as offensive in any way like the misunderstanding with the name Derpy hooves (someone will probably proove me wrong here, since someone gets offended at anything that happens apparantly.)
Of course Hasbro has to protect themselves, they would be fools not to, and if that results in the removal of any mention of Derpy hooves then thats just what is gonna have to happen I just want to make it clear to folks that i'm not kicking up a big stink over this, but to get something nice and then have it taken away on such grounds is bound to result in some bellyaching.
So far not much of anything except Welovefine renaming her though, so maybe nothing more will come of it.
So I've watched every episode from this show and I have some thoughts on it, put in some youtube clips as examples. I feel the strongest point of the show is its voice acting. Just a delight to listen to.
The animation is pretty good, I wasn't that impressed until season 2.
I generally like the show, but I feel its over hyped. It is just a children's show so it can only be so intellectually interesting, but it's still likeable. It's a pretty damn good kids show, but its not my favourite kids show. I feel as though spongebob squarepants and adventure time with finn and jake have better humour, and Arthur to have more interesting characters and lessons for children.
That said I still have some problems with the show. My biggest problem with the show is Pinkie Pie. I just cannot like her. She's inconsiderate, selfish, intrusive, has an unhealthy party obsession, and is straight up obnoxious. Though I found this humouring:
So I'll back up my reasons for not liking Pinkie, spoilers ahoy! Episode 1, she throws a party for twilight, without even asking twilight whether she wanted a party or not. Yeah, yeah its supposed to be a surprise party, but it didn't need to be. Its more like Pinkie wanted to throw a party and found an excuse to throw one, she didn't ask whether twilight was new or had any friends, or wanted to make any she just held a party in twilights home. This party addiction behaviour is shown in several episodes later. And twilight was not pleasantly surprised, she told Pinkie that "libraries are supposed to be quiet" but does Pinkie listen? Nope. The idea that twilight would like some peace and quiet is "Boooring". There's an episode where pinkie straight up flips out because the other ponies aren't going to her party, which she organises directly after another one. Melodramatic much? In the final episode of season 1, at the gala, Pinkie starts playing loud music at the gala followed by harassing several other ponies. Damn it Pinkie, the gala is not your party, its an exclusive party, which quite frankly you should be grateful for even being invited. You don't just go to a fancy party and expect the other ponies to do what you want. At the episode where Luna comes to ponyville in an attempt to become friends, Pinkie is fearmongering the children, when all Luna wants is to reconcile. Why? Because Pinkie gets a kick out of being scared. No regard for Luna. Also the cider episode. If I was rainbow dash I'd be mad too. Ok you buy unnecessary amounts of cider to satisfy your intense gluttony, that's pretty inconsiderate, she then comes back later to gloat about how great it was to someone who consistently misses out on the cider. Like really? I guess she makes up for it at the end of the episode but the earlier disregard for rainbow dash's feelings was just.. ugh. If Pinkie was a human being I would not want her as my friend.
Another problem I have with the show is it undermines of twilights research. Maybe because I see a bit of myself in twilight. It's like I can agree with all of these ponies actions. She's studying hard. Being social isn't everything in life you know? I know the show's called friendship is magic, but I honestly don't like the idea that hard study while antisocial should be avoided. First episode Celestia doesn't heed twilights warnings and guess what nightmare moon returns. Yea I know friendship was required to fiya tha rainbow lazor, but why couldn't twilight just continue researching and finding it out herself? Nope get your head out of the books Celestia says. Also another episode with pinkie's twitchy tail. I think the lesson learnt was to 'just believe in things'. As a physics student this lesson just pissed me off. It's a horrible lesson to tell a child in general. We should encourage curiosity and question asking, investigating, research! We can then publish/share our findings and spread the knowledge. Just believing in things we cant explain held back science. The drive to find an explanation for everything, and then using that knowledge puts us at the most powerful species on this planet.
And finally this show which is supposed to be teaching our children lessons deals in black and white, a lack of actually interesting problems in life. Sometimes I wish Trixie was as powerful as she claimed she was. I wonder how the rest of the ponies would just deal with it. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if the cider twins weren't overconfident and were also likeable ponies. I honestly think they would've provided a better service with their machine to ponyville. In a contest to determine who could produce the most quality cider they would've been better. Twilight and friends helping doesn't count because they aren't part of the cider producing team. Will they consistently help out every cider season? Doubt it. I feel as though the morale teachings in 'Arthur' are better. It dealt with violence amongst siblings, skipping school, behaving selflessly, and tolerance of difference to name a few topics.
So yea I give 'Friendship is Magic' a 7/10. I got problems with it but its still likeable enough to watch. Probably tonnes of people will point out everything this show does right so no need for me to go too much into that.
On February 03 2012 20:43 kastoob wrote: So I've watched every episode from this show and I have some thoughts on it, put in some youtube clips as examples. I feel the strongest point of the show is its voice acting. Just a delight to listen to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJpyJkrq5k
I generally like the show, but I feel its over hyped. It is just a children's show so it can only be so intellectually interesting, but it's still likeable. It's a pretty damn good kids show, but its not my favourite kids show. I feel as though spongebob squarepants and adventure time with finn and jake have better humour, and Arthur to have more interesting characters and lessons for children.
That said I still have some problems with the show. My biggest problem with the show is Pinkie Pie. I just cannot like her. She's inconsiderate, selfish, intrusive, has an unhealthy party obsession, and is straight up obnoxious. Though I found this humouring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MgonZ6J7_I So I'll back up my reasons for not liking Pinkie, spoilers ahoy! Episode 1, she throws a party for twilight, without even asking twilight whether she wanted a party or not. Yeah, yeah its supposed to be a surprise party, but it didn't need to be. Its more like Pinkie wanted to throw a party and found an excuse to throw one, she didn't ask whether twilight was new or had any friends, or wanted to make any she just held a party in twilights home. This party addiction behaviour is shown in several episodes later. And twilight was not pleasantly surprised, she told Pinkie that "libraries are supposed to be quiet" but does Pinkie listen? Nope. The idea that twilight would like some peace and quiet is "Boooring". There's an episode where pinkie straight up flips out because the other ponies aren't going to her party, which she organises directly after another one. Melodramatic much? In the final episode of season 1, at the gala, Pinkie starts playing loud music at the gala followed by harassing several other ponies. Damn it Pinkie, the gala is not your party, its an exclusive party, which quite frankly you should be grateful for even being invited. You don't just go to a fancy party and expect the other ponies to do what you want. At the episode where Luna comes to ponyville in an attempt to become friends, Pinkie is fearmongering the children, when all Luna wants is to reconcile. Why? Because Pinkie gets a kick out of being scared. No regard for Luna. Also the cider episode. If I was rainbow dash I'd be mad too. Ok you buy unnecessary amounts of cider to satisfy your intense gluttony, that's pretty inconsiderate, she then comes back later to gloat about how great it was to someone who consistently misses out on the cider. Like really? I guess she makes up for it at the end of the episode but the earlier disregard for rainbow dash's feelings was just.. ugh. If Pinkie was a human being I would not want her as my friend.
Another problem I have with the show is it undermines of twilights research. Maybe because I see a bit of myself in twilight. It's like I can agree with all of these ponies actions. She's studying hard. Being social isn't everything in life you know? I know the show's called friendship is magic, but I honestly don't like the idea that hard study while antisocial should be avoided. First episode Celestia doesn't heed twilights warnings and guess what nightmare moon returns. Yea I know friendship was required to fiya tha rainbow lazor, but why couldn't twilight just continue researching and finding it out herself? Nope get your head out of the books Celestia says. Also another episode with pinkie's twitchy tail. I think the lesson learnt was to 'just believe in things'. As a physics student this lesson just pissed me off. It's a horrible lesson to tell a child in general. We should encourage curiosity and question asking, investigating, research! We can then publish/share our findings and spread the knowledge. Just believing in things we cant explain held back science. The drive to find an explanation for everything, and then using that knowledge puts us at the most powerful species on this planet.
And finally this show which is supposed to be teaching our children lessons deals in black and white, a lack of actually interesting problems in life. Sometimes I wish Trixie was as powerful as she claimed she was. I wonder how the rest of the ponies would just deal with it. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if the cider twins weren't overconfident and were also likeable ponies. I honestly think they would've provided a better service with their machine to ponyville. In a contest to determine who could produce the most quality cider they would've been better. Twilight and friends helping doesn't count because they aren't part of the cider producing team. Will they consistently help out every cider season? Doubt it. I feel as though the morale teachings in 'Arthur' are better. It dealt with violence amongst siblings, skipping school, behaving selflessly, and tolerance of difference to name a few topics.
So yea I give 'Friendship is Magic' a 7/10. I got problems with it but its still likeable enough to watch. Probably tonnes of people will point out everything this show does right so no need for me to go too much into that.
Aye for someone who really didn't like the show but is not outright trolling either, you gave a lot of thought and effort behind your post. Rare to see such an effort.
Many of the questions you posed here are also questions that other members of this community often posit as well. In fact, many of the creative works in this fandom come from those same questions that arise from each episode.
On February 03 2012 20:43 kastoob wrote: Also another episode with pinkie's twitchy tail. I think the lesson learnt was to 'just believe in things'. As a physics student this lesson just pissed me off. It's a horrible lesson to tell a child in general. We should encourage curiosity and question asking, investigating, research! We can then publish/share our findings and spread the knowledge. Just believing in things we cant explain held back science. The drive to find an explanation for everything, and then using that knowledge puts us at the most powerful species on this planet.
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
I see this interpretation crop up way all the time (probably because of the trigger word "believe" being usually used in a religious context), but it just doesn't make sense. In fact, it kind of upsets me to see the episode undeservedly chastised.
There's nothing unscientific about acknowledging that your current equipment and understanding are having a hard time providing an adequate explanation for a particular phenomenon, and making an educated assumption based on the evidence at hand. That's what science is all about, and where it separates itself from blind faith, is it not? Evidence. For all intents and purposes of the show, Twilight's research did point towards the existence of the "Pinkie sense", but simply fell short of conclusively proving it.
Real science routinely defends against similar accusations. Consider, say, the debate on evolution; The scientific community everywhere openly admits that the theory of evolution isn't comprehensive, and will probably never be, but that the fact doesn't make it any less valid to base studies and "beliefs" on as long as the evidence gathered continues to support it.
PS: You seem like a sensible guy, and I'd like to touch on some of your other notions as well, but don't want to slam you with a wall of text right away.
If Pinkie was a human being I would not want her as my friend.
I'd like to comment on your reaction to Pinkie Pie.
I think it shows something very, very interesting about the character design. You see, I personally like Rarity the least out of the Mane Six. There is something about her obsessions and her goals in life that simply bothers me. Which leads me to wonder... I'm sure a lot of people would be able to name a least favourite pony with very good reasons.
These ponies, as characters, are thus uniquely flawed - each in their own way - and will inevitably lead to clashes of personality, not only within the show's stories, but also with the personalities of viewers. I think that's what happened here, with you.
As for the aesops - the lessons... MLP is aimed at a very young audience, and while not completely idealistic, still tries to sell a more naive approach to the world. I feel like the ideas you present (Trixie actually being Great and Powerful, or the Flim&Flam brothers being less douchebaggy) are something children will still have time to learn as they grow up.
Overall, your post is a great opinion piece. I especially agree about the aesop of Pinkie Pie Sense - it shouldn't be wrong to question and search for explanations of phenomena you do not understand. Twilight's scientific method should not have been discredited in such a way. edit: FnF has a good point. Doesn't Twilight stop gathering evidence, though, doesn't she just kind of give up on it? Maybe that would've been a better lesson. Accept that you know nothing and go from there.
Real science routinely defends against similar accusations. Consider, say, the debate on evolution; The scientific community everywhere openly admits that the theory of evolution isn't comprehensive, and will probably never be, but that the fact doesn't make it any less valid to base studies and "beliefs" on as long as the evidence gathered continues to support it. .
Real science depends entirely on phenomena being repeatable: if you perform the same experiment twice under the same conditions anywhere in the universe at any time, you should get the same results.
In the FiM universe some things happen for narrative reasons (like the Pinkie sense not showing up under controlled conditions) so this isn't very repeatable and science would be worthless in such a universe.
On February 03 2012 22:58 Soleron wrote: In the FiM universe some things happen for narrative reasons (like the Pinkie sense not showing up under controlled conditions) so this isn't very repeatable and science would be worthless in such a universe.
If I recall correctly, though, Pinkie Pie herself knows a few rules about her Sense - combinations of twitches and events they correspond to - so evidently, it is subject to some kind of pattern, even if said pattern doesn't overtly make any sense. Did Twilight try to induce any twitches in Pinkie Pie? Like, by dropping something on someone intentionally or whatever?
On February 03 2012 22:27 Wikt wrote: Doesn't Twilight stop gathering evidence, though, doesn't she just kind of give up on it? Maybe that would've been a better lesson. Accept that you know nothing and go from there.
As far as the show is concerned, she already did everything within her immediate capabilities. It may have been a curious phenomenon, but so are many others. Is it worth continuing to obsess over something that's in all likelihood completely outside one's field of study?
Having said that, though, an offhanded "I'll figure it out some day" would have held back a lot of controversy.
On February 03 2012 22:58 Soleron wrote: Real science depends entirely on phenomena being repeatable: if you perform the same experiment twice under the same conditions anywhere in the universe at any time, you should get the same results.
In the FiM universe some things happen for narrative reasons (like the Pinkie sense not showing up under controlled conditions) so this isn't very repeatable and science would be worthless in such a universe.
That'd be the "for all intents and purposes of the show" part. Science is great, but doesn't need to hijack everything tangentially related as soapboxes, especially if doing so would clearly disrupt the flow of completely unrelated goals. The episode wasn't trying to replicate the scientific method, yet still showed healthy respect for rationality, and I think that's enough reason to let it do its own thing without condemnation.
rather than thinking of pinkie as being selfish, you could explain all of the instances you mentioned as because she is just ignorant. I don't think she had malicious intent when throwing any of the parties, but just can't comprehend why anyone would not like a party.
And am I the only one who didn't think the brothers were evil characters? They tried to work with the Apples, and if they had gone out of businesses it was more of collateral damage rather than on purpose. As oppose to the typical capitalist villain, they weren't tying to level the town so they could build a railroad through it. They provided a service to the town that they all wanted and only tried to prevent one family from selling one product during one season. Granted they weren't altruistic, but I think they were net neutral.
I agree that they kind of dismiss science, but I think that's just a necessary sacrifice for TV. I don't know how you would have a show about someone who declined to interact with other characters so they could study more; much less a kids show.
I think that pinkies feeling was a representation of star sense instead of some mystic thing. you get people in every profession and sport that are experienced enough that they just "feel" something is about to happen that they just can't explain but it happens anyway.
Its like when koreans can deduce when someone is trying to fast expand based on the movements of the probe in their base. or when a batter can just know what kind of pitch is coming and where its going to end up from the way that the pitcher winds up for it.
The brothers weren't evil characters and I don't believe that there have been any other then the big 2. Even Gilda seems to be more of a product of a minority of cloudsdale. the brothers where trying to move in on something and tried their best. but the lesson is don't mess with an old family run business in open conflict, in that case the local community will rally behind them. EXCEPT in the case where said family business is causing unhappiness or some other form of dificency in regards to its supplying of its product or service to said local community.
as for the target audience I think that walt Disney said it best when he said that if you target just for kids then you're dead. Adults are just kids grown up. I think that the media in modern life sees males as nearly a target for constant sex and violence. Now I'm not saying Spartacus isn't a really kickass show but that isn't the only thing that I care about.
Your post was really well thought out and well written.
On February 03 2012 20:43 kastoob wrote: Also another episode with pinkie's twitchy tail. I think the lesson learnt was to 'just believe in things'. As a physics student this lesson just pissed me off. It's a horrible lesson to tell a child in general. We should encourage curiosity and question asking, investigating, research! We can then publish/share our findings and spread the knowledge. Just believing in things we cant explain held back science. The drive to find an explanation for everything, and then using that knowledge puts us at the most powerful species on this planet.
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
I see this interpretation crop up way all the time (probably because of the trigger word "believe" being usually used in a religious context), but it just doesn't make sense. In fact, it kind of upsets me to see the episode undeservedly chastised.
There's nothing unscientific about acknowledging that your current equipment and understanding are having a hard time providing an adequate explanation for a particular phenomenon, and making an educated assumption based on the evidence at hand. That's what science is all about, and where it separates itself from blind faith, is it not? Evidence. For all intents and purposes of the show, Twilight's research did point towards the existence of the "Pinkie sense", but simply fell short of conclusively proving it.
Real science routinely defends against similar accusations. Consider, say, the debate on evolution; The scientific community everywhere openly admits that the theory of evolution isn't comprehensive, and will probably never be, but that the fact doesn't make it any less valid to base studies and "beliefs" on as long as the evidence gathered continues to support it.
PS: You seem like a sensible guy, and I'd like to touch on some of your other notions as well, but don't want to slam you with a wall of text right away.
I have to disagree with you on Feeling Pinkie Keen, FnF. Initially, I had the same reaction to the episode as did, it seems, half the fanbase: that it was a kind of science vs belief war where science was proven ineffectual and misguided, and rigorous study was discarded in favor of giving up and simply believing in something. I thought it was a shame, because it's an amazingly fun episode with great humor and animation wrapped around a horrible moral.
Studio B found out about this point, and they were horrified.
For instance, Faust herself expressed disappointment and regret that that's how the episode has been portrayed, saying that it was not the intent at all (I can't find the link to her post about it in my bookmarks, though you can probably find it quite quickly).
Jayson Thiessen's favorite podcast is "The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe" (which is an amazing podcast and everyone should listen to it), so you can imagine what he felt when he started hearing what kind of message people got out of that episode.
They've universally stated that it was not the episode's intent, and that they were sorry that they failed as writers and producers in conveying the actual essence.
So, yes -- that's what they were trying to say, but they still failed at saying it. I haven't yet been able to twist my brain enough to see the episode for "what it was supposed to be", because that's not how it ended up being portrayed. Thus, I still highly dislike and disapprove of the episode's morals, but I also understand that no intent, malicious or otherwise, went into making it so from the part of the producers.
All the other debates on this topic, and on Pinkie Pie, I will steer clear of. kastoob, I'm glad you decided to give the show a chance, and thanks for posting your thoughts on it, especially since you haven't been taken in by it like some people have.
Thanks for stopping by! Cheers. =)
On February 04 2012 00:33 armindadkhah wrote: This thing is an epidemic at my school
Must be a fluke. Can't possibly be because there's something to it or anything.
Hey everybody, how we all doing :D. I saw some of the prior posts about Derpy and wrote a post myself, but it turned into a rant, lol. Anyway, hope all of you are doing well and can't wait to see what Bronycraft 2 has in store for us. Wish I could do it, but I am so out of the game that I'm at a point where watching is more fun than playing. That's weird to say, isn't it? Anyway, good luck to all the participants and have fun out there. Now to my original post:
just jumped on to see what was new and saw this whole thing about Derpy and the drama that is being caused by her name and whatnot. To be honest here, I'm getting really frickin' tired of people being offended by everything and then taking up arms about it. It's a damn kids show, can't we just watch it and enjoy it without all these outside forces trying to affect what the show creators are trying to do. I swear that the old saying of "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" got thrown out the window somewhere and words have become the equivalent of falcon punch with how much people get offended.