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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 12 2014 21:11 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 19:52 Gullis wrote:
Those are valid points but I think that they could have done it in a less clumsy way. The upcoming events with Reek going to that castle (what ever it name was) will give plenty of opportunity to showcase his state of mind.
I just dislike it when they force some new event in there to showcase something that could have been integrated smoothly with the main story. For example Jaime's deal with Tywin was a really clever way of giving cause for letting Tyrion take the black (which imo lacked in the book). No it does not. I am already reading how it is unrealistic that Theon didn't go with his sister, but if he suddenly decided to not hide with a bunch of Ironborn in a castle (Moat Caitilin) but betray them.. that would be even less believable to viewers. In todays episode Ironborn were kind of outnumbered and one can say Theon was so scared he didn't want to risk trying to flee and getting captured again.
That shaving scene and this weeks scene with Theon bathing already gives a pretty big clue about his state of mind. He will later be aloud to ride alone to Moat Caitilin where one could argue that he has a good chance of escape yet he does nothing adding further clarification .
Now when he finally does escape one can ask himself why he dares to escape with these unknown people and not with his own sister.
I don't think this was a terrible way of giving the book readers some action and giving some insight to Theon just that it could have been done better the whole thing felt forced and like "fan service".
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The Ironborn scene was just made up because they needed to get some screen time in for the actors for Yara, Theon, and Ramsay and they wanted to add some action. The problem is that the show created action scenes automatically have plot armor for the main characters, so they end up changing nothing and adding nothing. From an adaptation point of view, Yara/Asha's lines were completely contradictory to her attitude towards Theon. Even in the earlier seasons of the show, she never considered him "her prince", she considered herself to be the rightful heir. The whole rescue thing made very little sense even in the context of the show because if she cared enough to risk her and her men's lives rescuing Theon, she should have either tried to hold Winterfell, or been more forceful in making Theon leave. She was more true to her book personality in season 2, when she cared more about her men than trying to help Theon in Winterfell.
Of course the show ignores geography of Westeros again, considering that the Dreadfort is on the eastern coast and the Iron Isles are in the western ocean. It would require sailing thousands of miles to get there, sailing south around Dorne, back up past King's Landing and Dragon Stone, before heading back up north to the Dreadfort.
The finale of Ramsay releasing the hounds and cut to the Ironborn retreating to their boat... It's hard to imagine that even attack dogs would be that intimidating to armored and armed warriors. They wouldn't need to outrun them, and they realistically couldn't outrun them if the tried. Also there should have been alot more Bolton loyal men at the Dreadfort. Where is Roose and the rest of his army?
It was a reasonably entertaining TV scene, but just like Jon's fight last week, it was a scene that cuts away at the illusion that important characters aren't superheroes who can't die in fights.
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hmm.. I tend to not read too much into the Theon scenes. It's just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
I'm not sure why some of you are upset about the Shae testimony. Given the setup they've done earlier this season, did you anticipate any other way out?
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It's also going to be interesting to see how they explain Shay's motivation for betraying Tyrion. The trial was a great adaptation of the book chapters, but Shay up to this point has been a completely different character. She clearly is not motivated by gold as book Shae, or she would have taken Tyrion's offer to have gold, a house, and be supported for life in Essos when he asked her to leave. So is she being threatened; testify or else? If so, then it doesn't seem logical she would be found in Tywin's bed given that her character has been portrayed as really loving Tyrion and Sansa. I never liked TVShae though, I can't see any reason why she or Tyrion would love the other one in the first place. She was a high maintainence bitch that he paid, he was always doing things that she was bitching about, and they greatly reduced the number of times they had sex.... So it's hard for me to buy what they liked about one another. It's just jarring sometimes when they do great adaptations of book scenes that completely ignore all the changes they have made to characters prior to those scenes.
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On May 12 2014 22:09 karazax wrote:
It's also going to be interesting to see how they explain Shay's motivation for betraying Tyrion. The trial was a great adaptation of the book chapters, but Shay up to this point has been a completely different character. She clearly is not motivated by gold as book Shae, or she would have taken Tyrion's offer to have gold, a house, and be supported for life in Essos when he asked her to leave. So is she being threatened; testify or else? If so, then it doesn't seem logical she would be found in Tywin's bed given that her character has been portrayed as really loving Tyrion and Sansa. I never liked TVShae though, I can't see any reason why she or Tyrion would love the other one in the first place. She was a high maintainence bitch that he paid, he was always doing things that she was bitching about, and they greatly reduced the number of times they had sex.... So it's hard for me to buy what they liked about one another. It's just jarring sometimes when they do great adaptations of book scenes that completely ignore all the changes they have made to characters prior to those scenes.
I guess I have the complete different opinion to you.
I never understood why tyrion could not see shae was all about money and frame in the book at all.
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I see some people already screaming that Peter should get an Emmy. But you need to give two episodes for judges to apply.
Can we hope for a similarly powerful scene when he kills Tywin?
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It will be interesting to see how they tie in Tysha or use another reason as the final snapping point for Tyrion to fire. Without his internal monologue, the show doesn't really bring his first wife up more than once? So the line "Wherever whores go" doesn't quite seem to fit for me. So the adaptation for that Tyrion/Tywin scene will be very interesting.
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On May 12 2014 22:40 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 22:09 karazax wrote:
It's also going to be interesting to see how they explain Shay's motivation for betraying Tyrion. The trial was a great adaptation of the book chapters, but Shay up to this point has been a completely different character. She clearly is not motivated by gold as book Shae, or she would have taken Tyrion's offer to have gold, a house, and be supported for life in Essos when he asked her to leave. So is she being threatened; testify or else? If so, then it doesn't seem logical she would be found in Tywin's bed given that her character has been portrayed as really loving Tyrion and Sansa. I never liked TVShae though, I can't see any reason why she or Tyrion would love the other one in the first place. She was a high maintainence bitch that he paid, he was always doing things that she was bitching about, and they greatly reduced the number of times they had sex.... So it's hard for me to buy what they liked about one another. It's just jarring sometimes when they do great adaptations of book scenes that completely ignore all the changes they have made to characters prior to those scenes. I guess I have the complete different opinion to you. I never understood why tyrion could not see shae was all about money and frame in the book at all.
Tyrion did see it in the books, but couldn't help himself. BookShae was much more seductive, much less bitchy, and while he told himself numerous times that it was his gold she loved, he still didn't think she would completely betray him. He loved her because she accepted him and really he had no one to confide in at King's Landing. Also consider that BookTyrion lost his entire nose, and was uglier than Peter Dinklage to start with, so being a dwarf wasn't his only handicap in finding a good looking woman.
TVShae is portrayed as actually being in love with Tyrion for some reason, even though 90% of her scenes involved her bitching about something she didn't like that he was doing, minimal seduction and sex scenes, and she doesn't seem interested in his money. Tyrion is in love with her, despite the fact that she is a high maintaince bitch who complains constantly, is jealous, and doesn't even have sex with him that often.
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Not sure why everyone hates the Dreadfort scene so much. Other than some mediocre acting and the fact that it was completely pointless, there's nothing wrong with it. It's not particularly good, but it's not like, offensive to me in any way.
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you answered your own question. It was completely pointless
Ramsay fighting shirtless against fully armored men? the 50 best fighting men in the iron islands?
yea right
When the fuck is Balon gonna die jesus
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Theon filler scenes needs to go away now, as Gullis say: I don't see a way how they could explain when Theon finally escapes why he dares to escape with these unknown people and not with his own sister.
Seems like D&D want the Iron Bank to have a more relevant role (where are the purple hats?), however I'm scared that Davos storyline will enter full filler mode.
Not enough Red Viper the entire season  .
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On May 12 2014 23:39 Requizen wrote:
Not sure why everyone hates the Dreadfort scene so much. Other than some mediocre acting and the fact that it was completely pointless, there's nothing wrong with it. It's not particularly good, but it's not like, offensive to me in any way.
Asha breaks into the Dreadfort and just comically escapes in the next scene after alerting the guards with no consequences. It was the most hamfisted way to show that Theon is Reek that they could have come up with. It didn't belong in the show world either.
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Also, the Dreadfort is on the opposite side of Westeros as the Iron Islands, with no connecting rivers between the two. How'd she sail there?
The whole Dreadfort sequence made little sense at all.
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It was actually comical. Going in, only to leave with their tail between their legs 3 minutes later.
While GoT remains one of the best shows around (if not the best at the moment), it definitely has wtf moments.
Considering the trial scenes and the rest, I'd say it's still an impressive episode. Just... I'm afraid that as they run out of actual material to base themselves on, they will come up with more of these senseless mini-storylines, and it will greatly affect the quality of the show. So far, they're basically still riding the GRRM wave with the content he wrote and created.
Though if season 6 hits and TWOW still isn't out, and they have to come up with more of these sub-par plots, they might run into some troubles. Time will tell though, it's a problem for another day, as the Iron Bank representative said!
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On May 13 2014 00:23 acker wrote:
Also, the Dreadfort is on the opposite side of Westeros as the Iron Islands, with no connecting rivers between the two. How'd she sail there?
The whole Dreadfort sequence made little sense at all.
Doesn't have to be a connecting river: you can carry boats. This has been done in the real world so it's not far-fetched.
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On May 12 2014 23:01 -Archangel- wrote:
I see some people already screaming that Peter should get an Emmy. But you need to give two episodes for judges to apply.
Can we hope for a similarly powerful scene when he kills Tywin?
Did anyone see what spoiler he posted to get himself temp banned?
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On May 13 2014 00:45 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 00:23 acker wrote:
Also, the Dreadfort is on the opposite side of Westeros as the Iron Islands, with no connecting rivers between the two. How'd she sail there?
The whole Dreadfort sequence made little sense at all. Doesn't have to be a connecting river: you can carry boats. This has been done in the real world so it's not far-fetched.
So they would carry their boats over the lands near Twins, over the wartorn lands, to sail past the Three Sisters, past Widow's Watch, up along the river to Dreadford and then back? Or over the marshlands near Moat Cailin? Or over the Barrowlands, past White Harbor without being spotted somehow?
Wait what? It simply made no sense.
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To me the point of the scene was to show Asha attempting (and failing) to save Theon, since they couldn't just have her go back home without at least trying to do something about the situation. The whole way they did it was very weird, though.
Fighting shirtless makes you look really cool and all, but it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief to not roll your eyes at the concept. Also, those viciously barking evil dogs were wagging like happy puppies on the close ups. 
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While Asha's scene was poorly directed, I believe that D&D goal was to make the viewers sure that Theon is in fact gone. No more Theon, only Reek
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On May 13 2014 00:45 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 00:23 acker wrote:
Also, the Dreadfort is on the opposite side of Westeros as the Iron Islands, with no connecting rivers between the two. How'd she sail there?
The whole Dreadfort sequence made little sense at all. Doesn't have to be a connecting river: you can carry boats. This has been done in the real world so it's not far-fetched.
There isn't really any where to do this that would be practical. It would require carrying them hundreds of miles overland, at which point you have to ask, why not just travel to the Dreadfort over land in the first place, or aquire ships on the eastern coast after traveling across by land?
Here is a map of Westeros that has a scale for distances, as you can see the Wall is 300 miles across and there really aren't any points to cross that are significantly less than that. Moat Caitlin would be the furthest sailing point to the east, but it's surrounded by swamps:
http://gameofthrones.net/images/Westeros_Maps/map_of_westeros.jpg
On May 13 2014 01:17 HyDrA_solic wrote:
While Asha's scene was poorly directed, I believe that D&D goal was to make the viewers sure that Theon is in fact gone. No more Theon, only Reek
Yes, and the point of many of their created scenes is to give screen time to certain actors to justify keeping them on the payroll. Though personally I think they might have been better served by having another scene with Balon, but I suspect he hasn't been cast for this season, and won't appear again. It is a bit problematic because in the books Balon dies before Robb or Jofferey, so with him being alive for all this time, what the hell has he been doing? Greyjoys lost ground at his death because so many abandoned their activities to go attend the King's Moot, including most of them leaving Moat Cailin with a small garrison, that had been hounded by the crannogmen, or bog devils as the Ironborn call them. It will be hard to portray how strong the Greyjoys are in raiding the Tyrell lands, if Balon is alive and doing nothing for so long, and Ramsay takes back Moat Cailin while he still lives.
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EPT
