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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 18 2013 02:18 Requizen wrote:
So a few pages ago (and I'm to lazy to find it) someone mentioned that they thought the story was, overall, a game of cat's paws for a more mystical game. i.e., the whole conflict is a war between the Gods (Red God, Old Gods of the North, the Seven, the Others[?])
Now taking this to look at things that happen, I was thinking about the leeches and the deaths "caused" by Melisandre. Balon's was the only one that was truly an accident and could be attributed to "magic", but if the Gods really are causing everything, do you think that Robb and Joffery's deaths were caused by the Red God and Melisandre's spell? Both had long courses of cause and affect unrelated to Melisandre (Robb breaking his marriage pact and beginning to lose the war, Joffery... well being Joffery and Petyr's plotting), so it could be entirely coincidence, but if it was all "set up" by the Red God in the first place... that could be interesting. Would that make Roose, the Freys, and even Petyr the Gods' pawns?
Balon's death was not an accident, most popular and likely theory is that the Crow's Eye paid the faceless men (possibly with a dragon egg, but that s pure speculation) to kill Balon, or had him otherwise killed. It's impossible he just showed up 1 day after his father's death from a several years long exile, plus there are some visual description evidence, cant quote it right now.
About Mel's and the death of the 3 kings, i think she saw their deaths and made it look like it was the Rh'lor s work. Or she actually thought, that the sacrifice is needed to achieve those deaths, hard to tell, im just guessing.
On April 18 2013 03:03 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +
So a few pages ago (and I'm to lazy to find it) someone mentioned that they thought the story was, overall, a game of cat's paws for a more mystical game. i.e., the whole conflict is a war between the Gods (Red God, Old Gods of the North, the Seven, the Others[?])
In an interview ( i don't remember exactly which one it was) George R.R. Martin said that, as he has currently planned it out, at the peak of the story it will have "less fantasy and magic than other novels have in the beginning" which makes me think that the god stuff will just remain a mystical element and not become a major part of the plot.
Quite the opposite, he said that, but you left out the big part> "at the end, where it will have the most magical elements, it will have less fantasy and magic than some novels have in the beginning". Not an exact quote but im sure he said it like this.
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On April 18 2013 06:21 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:20 Conti wrote:On April 18 2013 06:15 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 06:13 Conti wrote:
Hmm. Since I can't really ask in the other thread without giving away potential spoilers: Did they ever actually explicitly make the distinction between White Walkers and Wights in the show? GRRM kept that part particularly vague for many, many books, and I can't remember anyone ever talking about this in the show, yet people in the thread keep explaining in great detail the differences between the two. I'm confused. You could mostly tell just by looking. The White Walkers have a distinct design (most easily seen in the one at the end of S2), while the Wights are just, well, dead dudes. Visually not that hard to differentiate. True, but what people say in the other thread goes way beyond "They look different". They deliver detailed explanations of how they work and what they do. There's not even any speculation going on, it's treated as fact. Which is the part that confuses me. When was this covered in the show? It wasn't, likely spoilers then.
I've seen book readers helpfully explaining Wights and White Walkers to people many, many times now, like this:
On April 18 2013 06:06 karazax wrote:
White walkers are the creatures that raise the wights. White walker is what was staring at Sam at the end of season 2 with the spear on the dead horse. They are some other race completely. Wights on the other hand are reanimated humans who act alot like zombies.
Again, from the show itself, I see no indication that there even are two distinct "races" of evil dead guys. Sure, they look different, but that could mean anything.
So unless I'm missing something, please, everyone, don't explain White Walkers and Wights to show watchers. Let them figure it out for themselves.
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On April 18 2013 06:32 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:21 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 06:20 Conti wrote:On April 18 2013 06:15 Requizen wrote:On April 18 2013 06:13 Conti wrote:
Hmm. Since I can't really ask in the other thread without giving away potential spoilers: Did they ever actually explicitly make the distinction between White Walkers and Wights in the show? GRRM kept that part particularly vague for many, many books, and I can't remember anyone ever talking about this in the show, yet people in the thread keep explaining in great detail the differences between the two. I'm confused. You could mostly tell just by looking. The White Walkers have a distinct design (most easily seen in the one at the end of S2), while the Wights are just, well, dead dudes. Visually not that hard to differentiate. True, but what people say in the other thread goes way beyond "They look different". They deliver detailed explanations of how they work and what they do. There's not even any speculation going on, it's treated as fact. Which is the part that confuses me. When was this covered in the show? It wasn't, likely spoilers then. I've seen book readers helpfully explaining Wights and White Walkers to people many, many times now, like this: Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:06 karazax wrote:
White walkers are the creatures that raise the wights. White walker is what was staring at Sam at the end of season 2 with the spear on the dead horse. They are some other race completely. Wights on the other hand are reanimated humans who act alot like zombies. Again, from the show itself, I see no indication that there even are two distinct "races" of evil dead guys. Sure, they look different, but that could mean anything. So unless I'm missing something, please, everyone, don't explain White Walkers and Wights to show watchers. Let them figure it out for themselves.
Eh, yes it's spoilers, but in the end it's not that huge (especially to people spoiling things like the RW or Joffrey's death), it's just a bit of world building that may or may not get explained at some point in the show.
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It was explained.
You see dead wildlings in the first episode, then they're gone, and the little girl is reanimated.
Sam tells them that the 2 night's watch members they brought back and turned were "touched by white walkers" (which he read in an old book in Maester Aemon's library).
You see the animated wildlings in the season 2 finale when they attack.
You see only horse corpses in episode 3 (implying the dead humans were reanimated).
The show explained it fine. Seriously guys, not everything is a spoiler.
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Plus HBO provided some backstory in videos and their website. I don't know any part of it was about White Walkers, but not everything that isn't explicitly stated in the series is a spoiler. Yes, they are a big issue, but you don't have to be THAT obsessed with them.
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I watched season one before I read the books and from only season one I realized that the white walkers and the wights were different things. The white walker was intelligent while the wights were just reanimated corpses.
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Quite the opposite, he said that, but you left out the big part> "at the end, where it will have the most magical elements, it will have less fantasy and magic than some novels have in the beginning". Not an exact quote but im sure he said it like this.
Yes you're right, that's what i meant to say, sorry if i quoted unprecisely.
I watched season one before I read the books and from only season one I realized that the white walkers and the wights were different things. The white walker was intelligent while the wights were just reanimated corpses.
I agree it's pretty obvious. At the latest when Sam meets the White Walker at the end of season 2 it's pretty ovbious that the Walkers and the Wights are actually different things.
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On April 18 2013 08:03 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +
Quite the opposite, he said that, but you left out the big part> "at the end, where it will have the most magical elements, it will have less fantasy and magic than some novels have in the beginning". Not an exact quote but im sure he said it like this.
Yes you're right, that's what i meant to say, sorry if i quoted unprecisely. Show nested quote +
I watched season one before I read the books and from only season one I realized that the white walkers and the wights were different things. The white walker was intelligent while the wights were just reanimated corpses.
I agree it's pretty obvious. At the latest when Sam meets the White Walker at the end of season 2 it's pretty ovbious that the Walkers and the Wights are actually different things.
Again, I wasn't complaining about people figuring out them being different things. I was confused about the absolute certainty they all have when talking about the differences, and what the differences are, exactly.
It's a minor thing, I agree, but it confused me enough now that I just had to ask. 
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The master of arms of the nightswatch ser... the guy who´s an asshole to Jon at every chance he gets, do we ever find out why he was sent to the wall? Can´t remember.
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On April 18 2013 20:40 unkkz wrote:
The master of arms of the nightswatch ser... the guy who´s an asshole to Jon at every chance he gets, do we ever find out why he was sent to the wall? Can´t remember.
Before he was knight of House Thorne of the Crownlands and fought on the side of Targaryen during Robert's Rebellion. He was one of the defenders of King's Landing, after its fall he was given the choice by Lord Tywin Lannister between death or taking the black
Source
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On April 18 2013 20:40 unkkz wrote:
The master of arms of the nightswatch ser... the guy who´s an asshole to Jon at every chance he gets, do we ever find out why he was sent to the wall? Can´t remember. According to the wiki, he was a Targaryen loyalist who fought during the sack of King's Landing. Tywin gave him the choice to take the black or be executed. The source given is first book, chapter 21 (Tyrion as a narrator).
edit: dang, too late.
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Rofl so I went over friends house with my harddrive to deliver to him S1/2 of GoT and watched the first episode just for the hell of it with him.
I just realized the scene where the stag antler kills the mother direwolf, leaving behind 6 puppies represented Rob dying, while taking Ned with him, leaving the 6 children to fend for themselves.
It's amazing how many things I missed from watching the show/reading the books first time around.
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The Red Wedding has to take the cake in that area. Two thirds? Half? of readers don't expect it at all on the first read but then on re-read it seems like barely five pages go by for certain PoVs without something hinting at it.
The show is risking screwing it all up. It seems like anyone half paying attention is expecting doom for Robb at this point, and more than just a small minority seem to be onto Bolton as a traitor. To damage it further both Cat and Robb are even more guilty of screwing their cause over and for less honorable/sympathizable reasons. (see Cat character assassination and Talisa)
I think they will need to preserve the Arya faux-death from the book if they want to compete with Ned's execution like so many are hoping they can. (video recorders of non-reader viewing partners at the ready!)
At least Bolton's man being the one to take Jaime a hand has thrown some off that scent. I don't see that holding though unless they apply some form of further counterweight by not confirming for the audience that Bolton is a traitor until at the RW. That would mean stalling the Jaime/Brienne arc for about five episodes with just them getting to, and then doing, their Harrenhall stuff.
Alternatively they could have Bolton send Jaime and Brienne off towards KL without the reveal. Perhaps something along the lines of both of them thinking they are being sent to Robb or the like. A downside is that changes Jaime's relationship with his escort and ruins the bear pit...
...or makes it all the more heroic if he jumps in without being as inclined to think they would try save him. That sort of thing would help make his swing towards trying to be honorable stronger, as is needed to try and counter his outright sociopathic behavior previously in the show.
These are the people who did the season 2 Dany story, assassinated Littlefinger and Cat's characters, made Ros, and made Talisa. I have to assume a more pessimistic stance of hoping for minimal damage rather than for good changes.
Props where they are due though, Ramsay is looking amazing. Had to end on a positive note.
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Zurich15365 Posts
Red wedding will still be amazing. Just because a couple of nerds on an online forum figure out Robb is in a shit position doesn't mean everyone expects him, Cat, and Arya to die. It will still be so shocking to have most of the Starks wiped out in one episode.
I really can't wait haha
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On April 19 2013 16:42 zatic wrote:Red wedding will still be amazing. Just because a couple of nerds on an online forum figure out Robb is in a shit position doesn't mean everyone expects him, Cat, and Arya to die. It will still be so shocking to have most of the Starks wiped out in one episode. I really can't wait haha
Indeed, poor Arya... :/
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Some of the people 'figuring out' what is happening are likely to be trolls who have actually read the books/looked at spoilers.
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IrrelevantLabel
You re giving way too much credit for non-readers. The only ones who are expecting Robb's doom are those for whom it was spoiled or hinted at by their peers.
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On April 19 2013 16:42 zatic wrote:Red wedding will still be amazing. Just because a couple of nerds on an online forum figure out Robb is in a shit position doesn't mean everyone expects him, Cat, and Arya to die. It will still be so shocking to have most of the Starks wiped out in one episode. I really can't wait haha
Wait what? Are they killing Arya off in the show? o_O
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Do you guys think they will treat the red wedding as in the books?
Meaning they won't show it, you just got to know what happened in the aftermath?
Or will they show it as it's gonna happen? Would be awesome if they did that.
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They have to show it, why wouldn't they?
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EPT
