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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 03 2013 22:25 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 19:01 DannyJ wrote:Speaking of Jorah, does anyone else really dislike who they cast for him? I think he's the only badly miscast person in the entire show. That actor is way too, well, attractive. Maybe I'm not remembering the books well, but wasn't he basically an older, big bald disgusting "bear" of a man? Now I'm no woman, but I'd think Danaerys would jump all over that actor, something that she never even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. Edit: that being said, I like the actor in general and I guess they wanted to make him more "likable" than in the books, so it's not that bad, just annoying to a nerd fan  Totally disagree...I think Jorah is one of the best actors in the entire series as far as transition from books. He does a great job displaying his loyalty and love for Dany while at the same time showing his weariness of his past. As far as looks I'll leave it up for the chicks to judge but he doesn't seem like no Brad Pitt to me.
I think the vast majority are either not that pretty (dany, cersei, loras, asha etc.) or way too pretty for their roles(ygritte, jorah, ramsay, etc.), margaery is pretty much the only girl eye candy that is close enough, tho it's not that big a deal, very unlikely that we will see dany calling jorah undesirable in the show anyway.
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On April 04 2013 00:12 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 23:42 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 03 2013 22:25 antelope591 wrote:On April 03 2013 19:01 DannyJ wrote:Speaking of Jorah, does anyone else really dislike who they cast for him? I think he's the only badly miscast person in the entire show. That actor is way too, well, attractive. Maybe I'm not remembering the books well, but wasn't he basically an older, big bald disgusting "bear" of a man? Now I'm no woman, but I'd think Danaerys would jump all over that actor, something that she never even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. Edit: that being said, I like the actor in general and I guess they wanted to make him more "likable" than in the books, so it's not that bad, just annoying to a nerd fan Totally disagree...I think Jorah is one of the best actors in the entire series as far as transition from books. He does a great job displaying his loyalty and love for Dany while at the same time showing his weariness of his past. As far as looks I'll leave it up for the chicks to judge but he doesn't seem like no Brad Pitt to me. gotta second that he looks like a cowboy from 1700, kicked back into the middle age and put into steel. While im sure some women dig that kind of stuff, im quite sure majority would go for the Loras/Daario/Jaime/Jon type of man. I dont think that existed. Your point is valid though, but I think cowboys are more of a mid-late 19th century thing... on the other hand, theres a reason why actual ''noble knights'' dont look bad and guys like Bronn and the Hound and some other lower class knights are fugly. So you can tell them apart I guess ?
It definitely existed, just not in the US sense. Cowboys were originally Spaniards and Spanish-Americans (in this case, 'American' is referring to all of the Americas) who handled the cattle on the precursors to ranches in places like Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, etc. They were around in the 1600s if not earlier. Only much later, as the USA expanded westward and into what was originally Mexican territory, did they copy and appropriate the profession, fashion, and other characteristics into what became 'the' cowboy.
More on topic, I find the Jorah actor and character to be a good adaptation from the book. I didn't get the impression that he was ugly or close to looking like an actual bear. Rather, I understood the bear comparison as having two meanings. One, he is probably larger and stockier in the books, with more hair as well. And two, Dany simply refers to him as 'my bear' and such a lot more in the books than on the show, if ever. It's used also as an endearing term.
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On April 04 2013 01:32 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:25 antelope591 wrote:On April 03 2013 19:01 DannyJ wrote:Speaking of Jorah, does anyone else really dislike who they cast for him? I think he's the only badly miscast person in the entire show. That actor is way too, well, attractive. Maybe I'm not remembering the books well, but wasn't he basically an older, big bald disgusting "bear" of a man? Now I'm no woman, but I'd think Danaerys would jump all over that actor, something that she never even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. Edit: that being said, I like the actor in general and I guess they wanted to make him more "likable" than in the books, so it's not that bad, just annoying to a nerd fan Totally disagree...I think Jorah is one of the best actors in the entire series as far as transition from books. He does a great job displaying his loyalty and love for Dany while at the same time showing his weariness of his past. As far as looks I'll leave it up for the chicks to judge but he doesn't seem like no Brad Pitt to me. I think the vast majority are either not that pretty (dany, cersei, loras, asha etc.) or way too pretty for their roles(ygritte, jorah, ramsay, etc.), margaery is pretty much the only girl eye candy that is close enough, tho it's not that big a deal, very unlikely that we will see dany calling jorah undesirable in the show anyway.
Emilia Clarke (dany) is gorgeous, what are you talking about? :O I also strongly disagree with cersei being "not that pretty".
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It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up.
Regarding Dany and Jorah, I think part of the problem was also age and just general perception of him. She was much younger in the books and he was a balding middle aged man probably in his 40's who she saw more like an older brother/uncle/father figure. I don't think he was supposed to be ugly, but past his prime and just not her type.
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On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up.
The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time.
They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this.
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On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. Regarding Dany and Jorah, I think part of the problem was also age and just general perception of him. She was much younger in the books and he was a balding middle aged man probably in his 40's who she saw more like an older brother/uncle/father figure. I don't think he was supposed to be ugly, but past his prime and just not her type.
GRRM ain't scurred. He got this.
"My dream chronology is that the books finish first, and I do have a considerable lead over them," the author recently told The Hollywood Reporter. "It's true that they're moving faster than I am -- the series has its own speed -- but I don't see us catching up for another three years or so, by which time another book will be out. That should give them another two seasons of material. And while I'm writing the last book, they'd be making those."
source:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-renews-game-thrones-season-432343
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On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. Regarding Dany and Jorah, I think part of the problem was also age and just general perception of him. She was much younger in the books and he was a balding middle aged man probably in his 40's who she saw more like an older brother/uncle/father figure. I don't think he was supposed to be ugly, but past his prime and just not her type.
Most everyone is balding or bald in the books...
But on the time-frame, yes it's obvious the show will catch up to the books, im not sure if we had this discussion here already or was it over at wic.net. I assume they will make 5 seasons from the 3rd, 4th,5th combined, but they might only make 4, we shall see. anyways the possibilities>
1. GRRM goes into uber-writing mode and they can continue with 1 season per year (nye impossible)
2. They take a break or two between the later seasons. Wouldnt be the first show to do so.
3. They make a mini-series or a spin-off season out of the Dunk and Egg tales, or Robert's rebellion. Most people expect the D&Egg, but i think there s way more potential in the latter one, with Lyanna and Rhaegar getting introduced and still have some familiar characters as their younger selves, Ned, Robert, Jaime, Cercei, Selmy etc
On April 04 2013 06:08 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. Regarding Dany and Jorah, I think part of the problem was also age and just general perception of him. She was much younger in the books and he was a balding middle aged man probably in his 40's who she saw more like an older brother/uncle/father figure. I don't think he was supposed to be ugly, but past his prime and just not her type. GRRM ain't scurred. He got this. "My dream chronology is that the books finish first, and I do have a considerable lead over them," the author recently told The Hollywood Reporter. "It's true that they're moving faster than I am -- the series has its own speed -- but I don't see us catching up for another three years or so, by which time another book will be out. That should give them another two seasons of material. And while I'm writing the last book, they'd be making those." source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-renews-game-thrones-season-432343
Edit> yes, i ve read that too, very small chance of TWoW getting released at the same time they airing the last season they could shoot from the material they already have. And even so, the last book, by all means will take as long as any.
Even if the 6th one is massive, and i hope it is, there s no way GRRM publishes the 7th one 2, max 3 years after the 6th.
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There's also the possibility that GRRM decides that he'll need one more book after all. He already said that he's not 100% positive that it'll be just 7 books.
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On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this.
I agree completely. Even if GRRM puts out the last two books in the next couple of years, this will be the real problem.
Though it's difficult to imagine that AFFC will take up more than 1 season if at all (meaning bits of ASOS or ADWD mixed in).
My guess is that entire story lines (the Dorne stuff for example) will have to be cut to speed up this process. Another way to address this is to have a mini-time skip in book 6. Seeing as how GRRM is a producer on the show, it wouldn't be implausible if he sped things along chronologically in the final 2 books to "catch up" to the actors.
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On April 04 2013 06:21 Conti wrote:
There's also the possibility that GRRM decides that he'll need one more book after all. He already said that he's not 100% positive that it'll be just 7 books.
That would only make the young actor age problem worse. Of course, if GRRM continues with his current pace and the show continues to try align closely to the books, they can always swap out actors. I hope it doesn't come to that.
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I don't really know why we should care if the series outpace the books. I don't want the quality of the books to deteriorate just because they rushed due to the tv series.
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On April 04 2013 06:26 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I agree completely. Even if GRRM puts out the last two books in the next couple of years, this will be the real problem. Though it's difficult to imagine that AFFC will take up more than 1 season if at all (meaning bits of ASOS or ADWD mixed in). My guess is that entire story lines (the Dorne stuff for example) will have to be cut to speed up this process. Another way to address this is to have a mini-time skip in book 6. Seeing as how GRRM is a producer on the show, it wouldn't be implausible if he sped things along chronologically in the final 2 books to "catch up" to the actors.
They're not going to cut Dorne. Especially if they think they might catch up to the books, they'll want as much as possible to lengthen it out.
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On April 04 2013 06:31 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 06:26 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I agree completely. Even if GRRM puts out the last two books in the next couple of years, this will be the real problem. Though it's difficult to imagine that AFFC will take up more than 1 season if at all (meaning bits of ASOS or ADWD mixed in). My guess is that entire story lines (the Dorne stuff for example) will have to be cut to speed up this process. Another way to address this is to have a mini-time skip in book 6. Seeing as how GRRM is a producer on the show, it wouldn't be implausible if he sped things along chronologically in the final 2 books to "catch up" to the actors. They're not going to cut Dorne. Especially if they think they might catch up to the books, they'll want as much as possible to lengthen it out.
Well I'm trying to say that there are two objectives right? The books need to stay ahead of the show and the show needs to stay "ahead" of the young actors growth rate. There are ways around this - as I mentioned before, swapping out actors for example. But the most elegant solution is to keep the rendition of book 4 relatively short and for GRRM to wrap up the remaining two books in a sensible pace. But as you pointed out, the latter of which is not likely.
On an unrelated note, once everything is said and done, I would love to see a "prequel" that details Robert's rebellion and the events leading up to it.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this.
I remember reading something about how GRRM had originally planned Book 5 to open up with a time-jump. Like a few years afterwards of the events of Book 4. But then Book 4 became so drastically large that he ended up doing the whole viewpoint-split that we have now. If he still has that plan in mind, then there's a chance that we might get a time-jump somewhere in Book 6 or 7, and then maybe the age-growth won't be as big of a problem.
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On April 04 2013 01:32 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:25 antelope591 wrote:On April 03 2013 19:01 DannyJ wrote:Speaking of Jorah, does anyone else really dislike who they cast for him? I think he's the only badly miscast person in the entire show. That actor is way too, well, attractive. Maybe I'm not remembering the books well, but wasn't he basically an older, big bald disgusting "bear" of a man? Now I'm no woman, but I'd think Danaerys would jump all over that actor, something that she never even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. Edit: that being said, I like the actor in general and I guess they wanted to make him more "likable" than in the books, so it's not that bad, just annoying to a nerd fan Totally disagree...I think Jorah is one of the best actors in the entire series as far as transition from books. He does a great job displaying his loyalty and love for Dany while at the same time showing his weariness of his past. As far as looks I'll leave it up for the chicks to judge but he doesn't seem like no Brad Pitt to me. I think the vast majority are either not that pretty (dany, cersei, loras, asha etc.) or way too pretty for their roles(ygritte, jorah, ramsay, etc.), margaery is pretty much the only girl eye candy that is close enough, tho it's not that big a deal, very unlikely that we will see dany calling jorah undesirable in the show anyway.
I can't judge the male roles, but I gotta disagree in pretty much every way with you, except for Ygritte, who is way hotter than described in the books. Dany and Cersei are both pretty hot imho (Cersei by radiating arrogance) while I think that Margaery is not pretty enough - but all of this is completely a matter of taste of course 
Besides Ygritte, the only real mismatch with the books is Yara/Asha who should be a lot more "comely".
Can't wait for the next book, I hope GRRM is making some progress (he doesn't have a scheduled date until May, that must mean he can write a little bit...right?...right?).
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On April 04 2013 06:42 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I remember reading something about how GRRM had originally planned Book 5 to open up with a time-jump. Like a few years afterwards of the events of Book 4. But then Book 4 became so drastically large that he ended up doing the whole viewpoint-split that we have now. If he still has that plan in mind, then there's a chance that we might get a time-jump somewhere in Book 6 or 7, and then maybe the age-growth won't be as big of a problem.
That would be ideal, yes. I just don't see GRRM doing it. He keeps coming up with interesting stuff to happen, and for any ordinary fiction a time-jump means "and then absolutely nothing new happened for 2 years". GRRM just doesn't work like that. Stuff will happen, and he'll write about it, just to fill people in on what happened in those 2 years, and suddenly he's having yet another book and no time jump. At least that's how I imagine how it works.
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On April 04 2013 06:53 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 06:42 Live2Win wrote:On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I remember reading something about how GRRM had originally planned Book 5 to open up with a time-jump. Like a few years afterwards of the events of Book 4. But then Book 4 became so drastically large that he ended up doing the whole viewpoint-split that we have now. If he still has that plan in mind, then there's a chance that we might get a time-jump somewhere in Book 6 or 7, and then maybe the age-growth won't be as big of a problem. That would be ideal, yes. I just don't see GRRM doing it. He keeps coming up with interesting stuff to happen, and for any ordinary fiction a time-jump means "and then absolutely nothing new happened for 2 years". GRRM just doesn't work like that. Stuff will happen, and he'll write about it, just to fill people in on what happened in those 2 years, and suddenly he's having yet another book and no time jump. At least that's how I imagine how it works.
Agreed. He can't open book 6 with a time skip. Well, he _can_ but that would really suck given the cliff hangers with Jon and Dany.
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On April 04 2013 07:09 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 06:53 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 06:42 Live2Win wrote:On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I remember reading something about how GRRM had originally planned Book 5 to open up with a time-jump. Like a few years afterwards of the events of Book 4. But then Book 4 became so drastically large that he ended up doing the whole viewpoint-split that we have now. If he still has that plan in mind, then there's a chance that we might get a time-jump somewhere in Book 6 or 7, and then maybe the age-growth won't be as big of a problem. That would be ideal, yes. I just don't see GRRM doing it. He keeps coming up with interesting stuff to happen, and for any ordinary fiction a time-jump means "and then absolutely nothing new happened for 2 years". GRRM just doesn't work like that. Stuff will happen, and he'll write about it, just to fill people in on what happened in those 2 years, and suddenly he's having yet another book and no time jump. At least that's how I imagine how it works. Agreed. He can't open book 6 with a time skip. Well, he _can_ but that would really suck given the cliff hangers with Jon and Dany.
Tyrion too even, he is sort of in the battle of Meereen. To a lesser extent the Lannister twins as well. Three for three of the top characters and two more of the fairly important characters being in mid cliffhanger would be an amazingly bad time for a time skip. I believe he planned to not have any time skips in his post book 3 reconfiguration of the story and that was part of what led to the Meereenese knot.
The weird thing is that if it were not for Dorne then right after the battle of Winterfell and the battle of Meereen could be made into a good time warp point to skip a couple years.
GRRM writing a book in two years isn't funny. That is just a ridiculous thing to propose. Bad GRRM.
I was gone for a page and a half but I still want to touch on something from yesterday. Dany is not anywhere near as mad as a few people have decided to think she is. She is indecisive at times when she should know that she can't really afford to be and maddeningly (for Barristan, readers and soon enough Tyrion probably) attached to some very bad ideas she learned from Viserys, but that is about it. Going as far as labeling her another one of the bad-side-of-the-coin Targaryens is pretty unsupportable without mixing between book and show versions of the character.
Show Dany is dangerously close to being on the bad side of the coin.
Barristan is not the last good hope for her to realize how bad some of her ideas are and learn to accept better data. Tyrion is coming and there has to be a masterful retort about of the daughter of the mad king holding grudges against people for the actions of their father in the works.
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On April 04 2013 07:53 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 07:09 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 04 2013 06:53 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 06:42 Live2Win wrote:On April 04 2013 06:07 Conti wrote:On April 04 2013 05:36 karazax wrote:It's hard to say. Considering how much of the story they condense, they could always condense less to give themselves more time. Feast and Dance will no doubt be combined and shown in chronological order rather than book order and those two books could potentially make up 3-4 seasons even if they were condensing at roughly the same level they are for Storm of Swords (2 seasons per book). Some time during that stretch winds of winter "should" be out and it could be potentially another 2 seasons. Not that it would shock me if he can't get it finished before the show catches up. The problem with giving GRRM time to write his books is the young actors (mostly Bran and Arya). I suppose it's already a problem, but that'd just make things worse. The actor playing Bran is 13 now. One more season for Storm of Swords, plus two seasons per book will make him 19 in the first season of Winds of Winter. There's no way to conceal that. Arya's actress will be 21 by that time. They'll either overtake the books, or they will have to drastically change some major plots to address this. I remember reading something about how GRRM had originally planned Book 5 to open up with a time-jump. Like a few years afterwards of the events of Book 4. But then Book 4 became so drastically large that he ended up doing the whole viewpoint-split that we have now. If he still has that plan in mind, then there's a chance that we might get a time-jump somewhere in Book 6 or 7, and then maybe the age-growth won't be as big of a problem. That would be ideal, yes. I just don't see GRRM doing it. He keeps coming up with interesting stuff to happen, and for any ordinary fiction a time-jump means "and then absolutely nothing new happened for 2 years". GRRM just doesn't work like that. Stuff will happen, and he'll write about it, just to fill people in on what happened in those 2 years, and suddenly he's having yet another book and no time jump. At least that's how I imagine how it works. Agreed. He can't open book 6 with a time skip. Well, he _can_ but that would really suck given the cliff hangers with Jon and Dany. Tyrion too even, he is sort of in the battle of Meereen. To a lesser extent the Lannister twins as well. Three for three of the top characters and two more of the fairly important characters being in mid cliffhanger would be an amazingly bad time for a time skip. I believe he planned to not have any time skips in his post book 3 reconfiguration of the story and that was part of what led to the Meereenese knot. The weird thing is that if it were not for Dorne then right after the battle of Winterfell and the battle of Meereen could be made into a good time warp point to skip a couple years. GRRM writing a book in two years isn't funny. That is just a ridiculous thing to propose. Bad GRRM. I was gone for a page and a half but I still want to touch on something from yesterday. Dany is not anywhere near as mad as a few people have decided to think she is. She is indecisive at times when she should know that she can't really afford to be and maddeningly (for Barristan, readers and soon enough Tyrion probably) attached to some very bad ideas she learned from Viserys, but that is about it. Going as far as labeling her another one of the bad-side-of-the-coin Targaryens is pretty unsupportable without mixing between book and show versions of the character. Show Dany is dangerously close to being on the bad side of the coin. Barristan is not the last good hope for her to realize how bad some of her ideas are and learn to accept better data. Tyrion is coming and there has to be a masterful retort about of the daughter of the mad king holding grudges against people for the actions of their father in the works.
Why do you say the show Dany is cray cray, but the book version isn't? I find both are simply young girls thrown into a position they have no real idea of how to deal with.
Both are fairly faithful representations of this idea: Dany has to lead, but has no idea how to do it.
In the book, she stuck around in Meereen to learn, but without settling there for the longterm she has put herself in an impossible situation. It allows her enemies to catch up to her, making her situation even trickier.
In the series we have somewhat of a rewrite of the Qarth story, but her personality isn't fundamentally changed, imho, from the books.
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She is shrill and screams about "where are my dragons" when they are gone instead of having a cooler head and getting shit done. Sadly (well, happily but...yeah) there is no direct comparison to the books for that. It is still emblematic about how she tackles her challenges. She could with some competence even from early on in the books. She believed Illyrio and Viserys' bullshit about people waiting for their 'rightful ruler' in Westeros. 13yo Dany in her first PoV chapter in the books was smart enough to know that was BS the moment she heard it.
Some of it is lost in lack of exposition. In the show it isn't as clear that she could be a just ruler or that she is largely motivated by a sense of duty or that this is simply her purpose in life but rather she seems power hungry. In the show they had to try to tell the audience that rather than showing them and when I turn off my book knowledge and just go with what the show has provided I have a hard time buying it.
She is less get-things-done practical/competent, less intelligent, far less wise and with this shrill bitchy-ness thrown on. Even at the height of her indecision and all around regression in Meereen and refusing to think of Starks and Lannisters as different she was better in those regards in the books than the show has portrayed. Narrative problem: It doesn't even make sense for this version of Dany to end up able to accomplish some of the things they will have to show her doing. Storytelling problem: Cersei might even be easier to sympathize with in the show, or at least could be if she wasn't everyone's favorite halfman's clear enemy. This is the character who has to stick around as a core lead that the audience has little choice but to be cheering for since she is the most obvious Azor/head/prince?
The character is the one outright disaster in the book to show conversion.
Littlefinger is more ruined, but he is less of a problem since he isn't one of the core leads.
My hope at this point is that they will just show her mature really quickly as if what Xaro did will be to her edification what the warlocks apparently were to dragon growth.
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EPT
. I used to think the books might have a slight chance of outpacing the TV show now its obvious there's no chance in hell of it happening.
